jones1899

Yeah. The Darabount script was pretty good. For the most part it felt less goofy than KOTCS with a few exceptions (Ox acting like a odg and biting through Indy's ropes...really? Indy getting swallowed by a giant snake... Really Frank?) But the biplane scene would have been classic and I think the Indy/Marion dialog sparring was better handled as well. I edited a bit of that in my KOTCS edit BTW. 

So, anyway, can ANYONE help me with this audio problem? I still can't seem to get 6 audio tracks from the DVD. As soon as I do I'll be able to finish my edit.

Thanks.

Musicman, that's odd we had such a different take on Ox. Looking at the "help" gag in the quick sand scene, the dancing, etc. He seemed to me like a goofy attempt at Lucas humor. 

Either way, I think it works better with less Ox. 

Laser, I'd be happy to post some of my edits up. Of course... like many other things... I have no idea how. :) Give me a quick tutorial and I'd be glad to. Also, I have no audio in these. Any help on the audio thing? Or are you talking about doing the audio based somewhat on my video edits? Either way let me know. I'm anxious to see my edits with audio.

topdawg193 said:

Musicman - I had that exact cut in mind, also.

I agree with you, jones1899, that there is far too much exposition, and feel that we don't need the 'what if's, or the musings about Oxley at this point; transitioning from 'what is this thing?' to Indy and Mutt going up the steps would be seamless.

Remember, with the whole 'return' business, in regards to the word 'return' being written all over Ox's cell and the realisation that Oxley left clues in the note to find the skull, I think it's safe to assume that the audience would be able to grasp that Oxley was the one who both found and then later returned the skull (we are even reminded of this in the following scene with Indy and Spalko in the tent; 'now I know why Oxley put the skull back - he knew you were looking for it').

It's good to hear that you're tackling this head on, jones1899 - on the topic of needless-exposition, what are your thoughts on other areas of the movie which you think ought to be trimmed down, dialogue wise? I think this removing-of-pointless-explanations is possibly the best way to tighten up the film, and give it some velocity in terms of pacing.

Thanks topdawg. I think this was the biggest cut as far as exposition goes, but I've made a few others as well. In the sand/obelisk puzzle scene I took out the "you figured this out in your cell didn't you professor?" Just really unnatural. And with that line gone and a few changes to the order of the shots, it looks like Indy was more so the one to figure it all out. There are plenty enough clues there for Indy to figure it out.

I took out Spalko saying "what is the point of all this Dr. Jones" in the warehouse and I'm toying with taking out Indy's response. He JUST said it the box was highly magnetic and it works better if he just doesn't offer a reply and lets the magic gunpowder do the talking. Again, still playing with this one.

Beyond that, I cut Ox's Henry Jones Jr! line just before the jungle chase.  In fact, I cut a lot of Ox. Now it really does seem like he's just a tool (not like that) and that the skull messed him up pretty bad. He's not the "funny' messed up like they were going for. Now when he returns to normal it works much better since we haven't heard him talk much. I HATED Ox in the original. 

On a seperate note, I also cut way back on the alien content - not that I had a problem REALLY with aliens being in an Indy movie, just the way it was handled. So you don't see exactly whats in the box in the warehouse until the jungle tent scene and even then its always behind the cloth. I'm going to fool with the color in the climax to keep the full alien figure a bit more of a mystery (and yes I cut the mean alien face looking at Spalko - really Steven...?)

I have to say this is all coming along nicely. Well, for me it is. I'm far from an expert. But until I get that audio figured out, it's kinda at a stand still. I just can not get 6 tracks of audio or some reason. I really want to add more original trilogy music too. Not TOO much, but in key places. 

Yeah. I guess my only concern is do we need any of the WHAT IFs coming from Indy and Mutt? Lord knows there is plenty of exposition in this film, and it feels like we hear the same crap over and over again. But is the possible fate of Orellana's men, and the fact that Ox was the one who'd been in the cemetery before made clear enough to the viewer without that dialog. Just seems to drag a bit, then we hear the same stuff from Spalko 5 minutes later, etc.

Thanks Idol, I'll admit I should have done it a lot sooner. Turns out I'm having a blast with it. 

Any input on question 4 up above.

Left to do -

AUDIO!!! As soon as I get those 6 tracks. 

Adding more OT music to certain scenes. 

Trying to put in the "not as easy as it used to be" and "part time" lines from the trailer. 

Putting in Laser's prairie dog free opening (with permission) and Marions (? I think that was Marion...?) cemetery gunshot edit (with permission.)

Whatever I decide in regards to the question 4 above.

"you're not from around here, are ya?" sounds really un-natural. I'm trying to figure out how to fix that scene also. 

Ya know, after doing this edit, I've found a lot to like about this movie. I think watching it so much has helped me to accept it as part of the series. 

Really appreciate the help guys. I am finished with the video editing and it is really looking good. I even started some color correction and the values seem to work really well. Definitely looks like the OT. Some edits I've done recently include removing SOME of the CG gunpowder stuff - just went on a bit too long. I removed the shots of the aliens in the tent - now they're only seen behind the cloth. Less Alien in the climax, less saucer too.

Overall I just took out a lot of the goofiness, while still keeping the good, funny lines that adhere to the classic feel of Raiders.  

Here are a few more questions:

1.) Is there any way to just download that 6 channel audio file?? I've downloaded 6 programs and none of them have worked!! :[

2.) How do I combine or merge sequences? (how do i erase razor cuts between sequences?)

3.) Is there any way to color correct the whole film as one? THis might be linked to question 2, but I have to color correct each sequence seperately and I have A LOT of sequences marked. 

4.) This one is not Technical (yay). I really feel like the exposition in this film is repetitive and often throws the pacing off. Two scenes stand out - the cemetery dialog after they find the skull and the tent scene with Spalko. Any suggestions on what we DONT need to hear AGAIN in these two scenes? I would love to cut away when Indy says "what is this thing?" in the cemetery, and lose all of the what if's scenarios that we establish later on anyway. 

Yeah, I totally disagree with the defense of Ox. In a movie filled with goofiness it's just uneeded AND takes away a lot of puzzle solving from Indy since Ox's has been there already. Also, that makes it 5!! people in this happy group adventure which lessens the sense of danger (if 5 people, most of them middle aged) make it through a trap or waterfall unscathed, then it must not be too dangerous. I didn't feel for Ox, since I didn't know how he was before he went insane and it sure wasn't funny. I've begun working on an edit and I'm doing everything I can to cut the Ox sillyness.

Just my opinion. But I do agree about the alien stuff. Not sure how I'm gonna fix that though.

Video edit is comign along very nicely on my end. I did my own version of the waterfall sequence that I think works pretty well, I changed up the bit with Mac holding on to the whip in the end - that part always looked off to me. And I edited the quick sand bit, but the audio will do alot to help there as well. Let's see, what else... Oh! I was able to cut out Marion holding on to the steering wheel like an idiot after the waterfall. So glad to see that go. Still trying to fiugre out the magnetic gunpowder bit. To me its just more CGI that we don't need.

So now a couple of questions ...again.

1.) A major goal of mine is to use more familiar music from the OT in this film. Will it sound ok if I just pull those from my soundtrack CDs?

2.) What is the best program for color correction? I assume Premiere doesn't have that? Is there a free program that does color correction?

3.) I color correction a frame by frame job? Scene by scene? Or do you just adjust the entire movie at one time and then make tweaks here and there when needed?

4.) Let's say I wanted to borrow the edited version of the opening (without prairie dogs), if my version of the film was a different quality (not hd for example) would it be THAT noticable? 

Thanks!

cool sounds good. let me know. 

Well, like I said - there's no audio. And of course I have no idea how to render out or post video clips. What can I say? I suck!!

As soon as I can figure out the audio track thing (why I only have 2 similar tracks) then I'll start posting some stuff. It's pretty fun to do, Heks, have you started messing with it at all?

Got A LOT done last night on the video edit, but for some reason my audio only came out as 2 tracks. Both of which I swear are the same damn thing. I am going to town on the video though. I think I found a new hobby.

I got rid of Ox's goofiness in the camp, Indy's head awkward head spasms after looking at the skull, some fridge bouncing, Indy saying fine don't wait for me in Boomtown, some cuts in the warehouse (not done there yet) and a few other things. 

Heading to the quick sand scene next and cutting Indy being TOO friendly with Spalko in the camp. 

Yeah its a well and good, but like I said this is all video and no audio. Still, good learning experience and the movie is better for it. 

Thanks Laser. I'll give it a shot.

Nice job again on the chase edit.

Ok so I'm learning Premiere more and more as we speak. I've been working on the sand/obelisk puzzle to make it seem more like Indy figures it out as opposed to stupid Ox. Anyway, its actually coming along nicely...well the video is at least. 

1.) I am still completely lost when it comes to audio. How do you get separate tracks for the dialog and music?

2.) Also, lets say I wanted Indy to look over to one piece of the obelisk (lying horizontal) to size up the puzzle. The only shot of a piece in that position is when the pieces start rising. So my question is if I cut to a still of that piece (before it starts to rise) would it stand out completely? This is not required for this edit, just a question.

Thanks for the help.

As someone who has posted several suggestions in the SUGGESTION THREAD for KOTCS, I have to say many of the claims here are ignorant and unfounded. We aren't demanding the entire list be completed. In fact, if you'd take a moment to actually read the thread you'll see those with there own ideas actually discussing edits and cuts with those talented and knowledable individuals who are actually doing the near impossible task of making ths a good movie. AND we've been complimentry and appreciative every step of the way. Once or twice some of us may have gotten a bit TOO excited about seeing new updates, but we've since handled those issues. 

In fact, getting such a good list  of edits (which range in importance) has prompted several of us over on that thread to learn the tools of editing ourselves and try our own hand at it. 

It's clear many of you haven't even read through the thread and/or just need something to cry about.

I think the list we have is very thorough. I think it addresses several problems wth the film. Some of these are quite small and some are not, but every step of the way we've discussed the feasability of these edits with those doing the edits. Things like Ox dancing for instance is, for many of us, another goofy, kiddy scene in a film that has far too many goofy and kiddy scenes. 

The main problem with the alien stuff is not that there are aliens (or whatever interdemensional beings they're refered to as) but that there's no sense of peril or danger or character moments to ground the film in any manner to handle such a thing. Scenes that were over the top were made more so by the fact that there was never any sense of danger due to an over reliance on CGI and jsut plain bad filmmaking. Is is terrible to have a character in an adventure film swinging on vines? No. In fact its sort of expected. But seeing the way said scene ws executed makes it stand out as weightless and goofy. Are aliens THAT far out of left field for the Indy franchise? Nope. But the way they were presented here is just plain terrible.

Gotcha. I think I'm gonna try my hand at the obelisk sand puzzle. I think I have a way to make it seem as though Indy is infact the one that solves the puzzle and not dumbass Ox. This might be a good test for me considering it all takes place in one tight area. 

Here goes nothing...

Any thoughts on my comments regarding the pacing of the cliff's edge scene?

Spalko threatens indy verbally in Russian as if she's fixing to kock him over the side, but then the chae goes on for several seconds before Mutt comes in. It would play better if that gap was smaller? Am I making any sense?

Also, is it common for edits to be done without sound first? Just the get the visuals done. Or is the audio and video usually done int tandem? I'm getting good with the video but I suck at the audio.

Laser, the edit looks great. I think the scene works much better now and the color correction just seems right - like this is how it should have been from the start.

If it would be possible to lose Ox's "henry jones jr." line, I'd be all for it. Maybe we can have the camera pull in close on him, but then cut away before he delivers the line. As if to give a look to say "Whew, Indy's here to save the day" without saying a word. Might this help eleviate your concern about Spalko?

Also, what are your thoughts on the chase sequence when Spalko threatens Indy to when Mutt swings into action. There seems to be a large gap between her threatening him, the shot of the cars from Mutts view in the trees, Indy's car tires almost over the edge and then Mutt finally swinging in.

Besides those minor things, again this seems right - just how the film should have looked. Nice job and keep up the good work!

The only things I've successfully done is cut some of the fridge bouncing and rolling and THAT took me a half hour to figure out how to do properly! I wonder if Premiere is overkill for the types of edits I'm looking to make. Is there a more basic and user friendly program for someone like me to use considering I don't need (or know how) to do effects, etc. If I just wanted to cut scenes and audio and change the duration of a scene...

I definitely have even more respect for you guys out there that make this stuff look so easy and professional. No wonder it takes so long to see updates...lol. 

I love the color correction. Looks straight out of LC.

Well, I've got my avi and wav files loaded into the timeline in premiere. The hardest thing seems to be the audio for me. Should I buy the soundtrack and just replace bits of dialog with the tracks? Or just have a layer of soundtrack going underneath to cover ay jumps? I think I can do the video part jsut fine, though it is still a challenge some what to avoid making it look jumpy. Should I Cut to everything or do yall use fades or transitions even subtley to make it smoother?

Well, I'm all for trying this out myself, but I'm afraid after 5 hours of working on it I'm starting to realize why it really does take the hand of a pro.

I know there are countless tutorials out there, but any push in the right direction would be helpful.

1.) How do you link different shots together seamlessly to where it doesn't seem like a jump?

2.) How do you isolate audio - say if I wanted to take out the prairie dog squeak for instance.

3.) How do you use the soundtrack to bridge two shots together?

4.) How do you copy a sequence say if you want to loop a scene once to stretch it out? For instance making more of a pause before Indy rolls out of the fridge.

Some of these things are simply tech things I know, but it just floors me to see edits that have been done and how seamless it all is.

Basically I feel like I am WAY over my head here.

Ok, so if I download the HD version with intentions of putting it on a dvd, will I need an HDDVD or BLUERAY burner? All I have is a DVD player.

Ok so I decided to try to edit this thing myself and DAMN if I can't even get it imported into Premiere!

I think once I get it in there I can figure Premiere out enough to do basic edits. That plus splicing in other digital edits of the waterfall, etc would be great.

But how do I get this DVD into Premiere!? I have like 10 programs on my computer, followed all the steps, and now here I am with VDUB showing messed up video (blocks everywhere) and NO AUDIO. I followed the steps to a T!

Is there anyway someone could post or send me the files needed to import right into premiere? I can post proof that I won the DVD. If I download a torrent of the movie would that work more easily?

Thanks.

That is definitely an improvement  over the original, Ringo. Nice.