jones1899

Thanks ID. You've been a hell of a lot of help though. Several of you have.

ID, any thoughts on the climax? You had a lot of good ideas on your edit - what were your plans for the climax?

Sucks. It's the ONLY thing holding me up now. I'm really anxious to let y'all see it.

Yeah he had some good ideas - a bit more drastic than mine. Mine will hopefully tide you over till then.

...yeah. Sorta did huh?

Well, lets hope we can at least KINDA save the movie with this edit. Looking forward to hearing Imperials idea for the climax. Also interested in what the rest of you have to say also regarding the climax - if you have any ideas (Laser, Topdawg, Heks, etc) Tough one I knowm, but its the only thing holding up the edit. 

Imperial, 

Next time you're on post at least the overall vision for those scenes if you can. Just a few sentences to get me prepared and thinking. I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on those important scenes.

Yeah that's kinda how it plays out as I have it. I also cut Indy's "well done" to Ox after he removes the first stone from the obelisk. 

Also, on a side note, I cut Indy saying don't know its just a story to mutt in the diner. I also cut one of the falls from the retracting steps (for some reason our heroes fall twice which was weird). Also, I cut Indy asking "the obelisk is the key?", "what are you doing Ox?", and "what are you looking for Ox?". This (and a few other small changes) make Indy look more involved with the obelisk puzzle.

What SUCKS is that I can't cut him saying "you figured this out in your cell didnt you professor?". Ugh. Couldn't we just have Indy solve a damn puzzle.

AND just a heads up that the Koepp script is available for download at http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2009/02/koepps-indy-iv-script.html some good stuff in there taht was cut so I guess I can't JUST blame Lucas and Koepp.

DocM, I tried my best to do something with the wedding, but I'm at a loss. I really wanted to get rid of the goofy kiss the bride moment, ut there is no fixing it - at least without some hefty digital effects trickery. Maybe slow the kiss down some and cut before Indy's eyes are wide and goofy?

I also hate how Indy rubs Mutt's head - very cheesy. 

Ok. Last night I made all of the adjustments I needed to based on what I saw from my preview avi. 

Now all that remains is the CLIMAX!

I still have no clue how to fix it properly. I'll play with it and try to firgure it out, but if anyone has any last minute ideas please let me know.

Other than that, it shouldn't be long now before I start sending out preview copies to a few folks to get final feedback.

Doctor M said:

I can't imagine Indy obsessed with ANY artifact after the events of Last Crusade.

He's seen where that leads.

I think a major problem with this movie is movtivation though. I wish Mutt woud have told Indy that is was Marion Ravenwood who was in trouble just to give Indy extra incentive to go on this quest. He doesn't at all seem interested in the skull itself since he says its just a story. I want to see Indy go inpart because of Ox, AND the treasure. SO just by cutting Indy saying WAS obssesed and "its just a story" I think we can accomplish this. The diner exposistion goes on a bit long anyway. Only to be followed by MORE exposition at Indy's house. 

ImperialFighter, thanks for the kind words. I am REALLY looking forward to your ideas for these two very critical parts of the film! The ending as I have it edited just doesn't work. By cutting the full aliens, the whole scene jsut goes by too fast to be an effective climax. And of course the opening could use a lot of work as well to get the movie off to a proper start. Some of the dialoug between Indy and Spalko is really delivered in an odd way.

Yeah. I considered doing a new thread, but I know several forums are strict about new threads dealing with the same subject. Plus, I was with this thread from day one and contributed many of the ideas in the first post. As for who else is doing an edit? I don't know. Several people seem to want to, but it seems like real life is getting in the way.

As for posting clips, I think it would just delay the final release. I'm pretty close to being done. I will try to post screen caps though to show the color correction.

Also, I had a couple of ideas I'm thinking of adding to the edit. Both of these occur in the diner scene with Mutt.

1.) I'm thinking of trying (if possible) to make Indy sound as if he is STILL obsessed with finding the skull instead of saying WAS obsessed. Just to add to his motivation.

2.) Also, I'm toying with the idea of cutting Indy saying to Mutt that its just a story. Again this would add to his motviation (much needed) and Indy's seen enough by now to consider the possibility.

Ok a little update here:

I finished going through my edit again. This time I exported with no compression to get a better look at the color correction and I have to say it looks GREAT. This alone makes KOTCS a better movie. In fact there was a small scene that I forgot to color correct and it really let me see just what an improvment it made. 

I had a few mistakes here and there (about 10 total) 1 spot where the audio wasn't matching up and a couple of audio jumps, but nothing major at all. 

Except that damn climax with Spalko. I definitely have to redo the whole thing. Still have NO CLUE how I'm going to tackle it, but I'll think of something. 

I really want to get this edit out to some of you for a look and feedback, but the file was 100GB uncompressed. I at least want the quality to be good enough so you can get a good idea of the color correction though. Can someone who knows Premiere tell me the exact settings they'd recommend for something small enough to post, but high enuogh quality to get an accurate idea?

Thanks!

That sounds great Sluggo. 

I'm not crazy about KOTCS as the title, but Im gonna keep it as is. My purpose in doing this was to make a seamless edit. Changing the title would constantly remind me that another Indy 4 exists our there and I want to forget all that bad stuff. Not sure if that makes sense or not...

As for the text, as long as it doesn't mention monekys I say keep it as is also. 

Thanks!

Ok so some good news!

I'm an idiot!

Seems the audio "echo" I was having after I exported out was due to the original 2 audio tracks that I DIDN'T DELETE!! They were hiding!! I never scrolled up high enough to see them since I imported the 6 tracks. So anyway, the problem solved.

The quality and color correction of the exported out vid will get better once I do the real DVD export. So that problem is solved too.

I got about half way through watching the edit and I have one or two small adjustments to certain cuts to make. No big deal.

So that still leaves the climax with Spalko and the Aliens. Man I have no idea how to fix this scene short of digitally taking out the aliens for the most part.

Anyway, the good news is all of the other worries aren't as big a deal now. Now I'm gonna get the wheels turning on figuring out the ending.

Keep the ideas coming though. There must be a way to restructure this to add tension...

I agree that your idea would add needed motivation and tension, but I simply don't think it's possible given the available footage. I would really love to be proven wrong on this one though.

Well, I was finally able to export my edit to avi and I ahve to say it was a bit disheartening. 

First of all, I'm getting a bad echo effect in some of the scenes. The lip syncing is off. The color correction which looked so good in Premiere now looks washed out and dull. Scenes that I thought were working well now don't (climax for example). 

Most of all, I just got this crappy feeling that fixing this movie - TRULY fixing it - would require the talents of someone more experienced and someone with digital effects know how.

Now, I'm not saying I'm giving up, though it was less than motivating. So here are a few questions to try and get this edit back on track (if it was ever on track)

1.) The avi was grainy as hell. Real pixelated. Is this going to look a lot better when I actually create the final dvd?

2.) What's with the echo? Are some audio files not lined up properly? Or is this a conversion issue. 

3.) Also, speaking of audio, is it common for the lip syncing getting knocke dout of whack with conversion to avi?

4.) The color correction. Again, is this a result of the conversion? Will it look more like it does in Premiere once I export the final dvd file?

5.) Now the movie itself. Despite all of the unexpected results, I will say that certain scenes do work better and make for a somewhat better movie. My question and concern is does it make for a GOOD movie?  I'm afraid it will take the expertise and experience of a professional editor and digital effects aritst to REALLY TRULY make a difference here. The climax is a perfect example. The aliens must go for the most part, but loosing the aliens also forces you to loose the build up to Spalko's death to give the scene the weight that it needs. As i have it, one second she's fine and in awe  and them boom her eyes are burning. THe scene that builds the eyes burning has to be cut because of the big dumb looking alien. This sort of issue came up a lot during my edit, but a scene like this stands out being that its the climax. 

I understand that even the best editor out there still can't always create a masterpiece from crap. But I wonder if I overshot some, considering my complete lack of experience. Perhaps I should just take out the one or two scenes that REALLY bother me and not try to mess with the one's that I lack the needed experience to fix PROPERLY. Maybe that plus the color correction will suffice for now. Maybe I just have to wait for a true master of this sort of thing to take hold of the project and really make this movie the best it can be. 

As I said, I'm not giving up, but I may consider starting over will more realistic goals in mind. As it stands I feel like I have a decent starting place for a much more in depth edit, the sort of edit that sets the ground work for the next stage of serious digital editing and touch ups. In other words, I've built the foundation for a skyscraper, but only have the means to build a decent shed.

Yes. I'm doing a color correction as part of my edit. I fooled with the tone and reduced the green midtones and the new look is GREAT imho. Very much more in line with the OT.

OK. I'll try that when I get home.

I've gotten errors the last two times I tried to export as avi in Premiere. Not sure whats going on there. I must be doing something wrong though - it said it was going to take 53 hours!

Can someone tell me the exact settings for video and audio for exporting out in avi for a pre-release preview. This is not for full dvd quality, just something to preview.

I tried cutting the "my friend" from the line, but Indy doesn't pause a bit between "Doubted You" and "my friend" so the "you" cuts off in an odd manner.

MIGHT just have to leave this one alone unless someone else has any ideas...

BTW, I tried putting the gunshot into the cemetery (which I REALLY want) but Marion's video is different from mine. Any ideas on this?

Also, I'm going to export my edit out as an avi tonight and will hopefully post a pre-release soon after. 

Ok. So. I put in the part time line (of course now I dislike the way Mutt stutters with "teacher" and prefer that line from the trailer as well) and the not as easy as it used to be line.

The never should have doubted you my friend line is not working as well. The clip has music in it which of course sticks out like a sore thumb. Any ideas?

Sluggo, 

You're right. I've taken a lot of crap OUT of the movie, but when it comes to adding things I think we're screwed (short of re-editing scenes to add more Indy involvement).

We just have to find THE BEST way to cut the ending together for the most impact. I did what I could and ilke I said it works well, but there could defintely be a better way.

Ok. I got the three audio files. For some reason using Winace Archive would only get me 1 of 3 files. Had to download winrar. Anyway, they sound great. Can't wait to put them in. 

Any ideas for the climax guys? It works OK as I have it, but I'm up for suggestions.  

Yeah, I don't think there's a way to involve Indy in the climax. I was more looking for idea on the aliens and Spalko's death in the climax. 

That's weird about the audio files. HOw large was the download for you?

Topdawg nice idea regarding the menus and DVD art. Anything that ties this one back to the others is welcome as far as I'm concerned. Any suggestions on how we should proceed with the menus? Ccan we contact the guy who made the one you posted? I wll be putting the new line readings into the edit immediately. Can't wait actually. Although I still only have the part time line. The rest weren't in the rar file. 

Sluggo, you dvd cover looks great man. Thanks!

As for the aliens... I worked and worked on the climax to take them out and as far as my limited experience can tell there's no way to do it short of digitally removing them. Here's the problem. The damn alien shares the screen with Spalko most of the time. In fact, the first time we see her eyes start to burn the alien is there. When we see her start to turn to mist the alien is there. So to ease the transition into her eyes burning I had to add something that was the topper to the aliens merging that seems like it causes her eyes to burn, which turned out to be the alien right when it forms. It is surrounded by bright light and only seen from the chest up so its not quite so offensive. Then we see Spalko's eyes burning. 

Another big problem with the climax is that Indy does NOTHING. The last thing Indy does (besides deciding to run and failing to save Mac) is open the door with the skull. Sure in Raiders he didn't contribute to the climax either, but at least he new to shut his eyes - not to mention the badass nature of the ark opening and everything else in the context of the scene made it work. TOD he defeats Mola Ram, LC he picks the right cup. KOTCS is just a really week climax. 

I would LOVE some suggestions on the climax. Let me know. 

After I put the new line readings in I can render out the edit as avi and show it to a few of yall to get feedback.

Ok I downloaded the file, unrared it, but only see the part time line. Heks, did you get all three lines?

Laser, I really appreciate this. Seriously.