Imp, being all too familiar with the footage we have to work with, I for one was going to be very surprised if you had a miracle fix to the climax. But every new idea is very welcome so we are looking forward to it nonetheless. No pressure.
Info, I'd say 4 days would have passed. Why?
Heks, it's minor if even really noticable. Your stuff looks amazing. No shit.
Wow Heks look great man. MAYBE the last guy stands out a little - might be the actual quality of the his photo though. The rest I could look at for days and not realize it was all a lie. Nicely done...
...Now focus some of that amazing talent where it matters huh? LOL
I haven't seen Stargate since it first came out, but I do remember it starting with a speech given by James Spader that showed us actual archeological evidence to at least get our minds wondering if this was possible. In Indy, the only actual interesting archeological link is through the Nazca lines, but we are shown these in a book! Then faintly in the background of the cemetery scene, totally failing to ground anything that is to come. Not to mention that since we see aliens in the first ten minutes with no sense of wonder or magic or buildup, we just kindof dropped into a world where this stuff exists. Indy should build to the fantastic, not start the movie with it. There's a reason ROTLA, TOD, and LC start with artifacts that have no magical (or alien) properties.
Setup and payoff are the keys to a good movie (along with character of course) and Indy 4 has niether a good setup or a good payoff. "Talking head" exposition is not the way you build up anything.
Also, Indy and the audience see pretty much the same thing in the beginning of the movie (alien, nuke) as we do in the so called climax (alien, ufo).Look at the reveal of Akator... we cut form the gang looking at a skull in the rock, then Boom they're in a temple. The nice wide shot of the temple surrounded by jungle is wasted with a pointless chase down the steps then they go BACK up other steps to get into Akator. It's convaluted, and bland.
Also, regarding the genre, there is never a sense of tension or danger. Now this is due to several small things, but the biggest issue in my opinion is the number of people along for the ride. When you see Indy alone barely escape a situation, you can think that situation was pretty dangerous. But when you see 5 people (all but one being middle-aged, and one being insane) escape something, it obviously wasn't too dangerous to begin with.
Because of all of these things (and more) Indy 4 will never be a GREAT movie. But I think this edit (with your help) can make it a MUCH better one that at least doesn't piss off the fans. That's worth it right there.
Or a combination of the skeletons circling her while we flash visions of the footage here and there also.
And yeah, come on Imp! You're killing us here! lol
Sluggo,
I like that idea and think we should do it, but additionally I still think we need a better payoff than what we have currently. What is the thing that ultimately makes her burn up and how does it work with the themes of the film and Spalkos own flaws.
Also it would work better if we can still see the skeletons spinning around Spalko as she's burning up, which would have to be added somehow using skills I don't have...
I do think the idea would work well though and contribute nicely to the whatever else we decide to do (newsreels, blood, etc.)
Also, the newsreels would be cool and still open for interpretation. Does she self destruct? Do they kill her based on her visions? etc.
Info,
Too bad Harrison Ford can't age backwards. Wouldn't mind a few more true classics from him before its too late...
Yes it is mentioned a few times that Spalko wishes to gain control over the psychic powers and that's just what destroys her - the visions. It doesn't have any impact at all though and her burning eyes are nothing compared to rapid aging/decomposing or face melting. We never really know what she's "given" to bring about that reaction. All we have is a TERRIBLE sneering alien and then poof, she turns to sand and flies up to the ship. BORING. Empty.
My main concern with the newsreel is that we WILL see what visions bring about that reaction, but that they won't be impactful enough to warrant such a reaction, which is why we need to build then imply the visions we aren't able tose are F'n nuts!
Yeah, I'd love a better suggestion which is why we're saying we're gonna hold out until we see what Imp has up his sleeve, but if done seamlessly with a nice effect and appropriate footage it could work. The climax needs something fresh like this AND it needs footage that does not feature bad CG aliens.
Hah!
Yeah the Abyss stuff is cool. Some of it is a bit too graphic and intense for an Indy movie, but most of it is good.
I agree. I'd like to see what Imp has up his sleeve as well.
IF it turns out we need to add the footage, what do you reccommend I do? At this point I'd pay someone to do it for me.
Hah!
So Infodroid, if it turns out we decide the newsreel idea is the way to go, would you consider taking that bit on? Or perhaps someone you know? We might not need to if Imperial has it figured out otherwise, but if done by a pro it could add much needed weight.
Imperial, considering I dont have the skills required to pull off the newsreel footage idea, I may need a good alternative. Could you post your ideas for the climax before you post the others? Just so we can get the ball rolling.
Looking forward to your ideas. The suspense is killer! lol
Yes those are both nice ideas. I think SOME of the stuff in the Abyss might be TOO intense for an Indy movie, but most of it would work just fine.
What do ya'll think should be the last vision? One that would imply that Spalko is fixing to get some info that's gonna ...blow her mind. Stuff that scares her. Stuff that she almost can't comprehend. Not history related though... Not sure.
Also, something to show the fall of the Soviet Union would be cool as well.
And I'm not sure what the effect is called, but having the edges of the frame fade to black (like a dark flickering circle around the footage) would be cool too.
No takers on this little project? :)
Those were some excellent points guys.
1.) I agree about the newsreel footage. It wouldn't make sense if it looked newsreel-ly. But I do want to avoid having anything too clean or familiar also.
2.) I also think we should have the visions build from moderate to horrific (or as horrific as we can while staying true to the spirit of the series). This way we can imply that the visions get worse as they go until ultimately she seess things that noone could handle thus contributing at least to her combustion.
3.) What are your thoughts on sound and music? Should we use a nice hauting piece of classic Indy music here? Just sound effects? Nothing?
4.) I also think we should avoid going TOO much into the future. Again, we hint that that is the direction the visions are heading, but we stop around Vietnam i think. I don't want to make a commentary here on current forgien affairs - ESPECIALLY Iraq. We need history that is distant enough to have been studied and examined for decades with perspective.
5.) I'm excited by this, but it clearly requires resources and skills that I just don't possess... I'm afraid that unless someone takes this particular bit on, that I will have to just live with the climax as is (or with minor cuts). I'd lveo tostep up, but this is a risky and difficult edit that will require a high level of seamlessness and polish to do the idea justice. If done correctly though. Wow. Could be very powerful and more importantly it gives us some good stuff besides aliens to provide payoff in the end.
Well, the bad news is I don't really have the tech skills to make it happen as I imagine it will take some nice subtle effects to make it truly work. Something like this has never been done in an Indy film so...
If we DO get it right it could be amazing, adding nice weight to the movie as a whole AND giving us something to fill out the climax other than aliens.
Anyone interested in taking this on?
Damn 005, now I have to be reminded of that crap everytime I come to this page? Makes me want to put up a giant post just to get us to page 28 of this thread...lol.
Anyone have thoughts on using old newsreel footage in the climax as Spalko's visions?
Godspeed, ya poor bastard...
lol
HAH! The was pretty damn good.
So I had this idea some time ago for the climax with Spalko and someone at the other site suggested the same thing, so I wanted to see what you guys thought.
What if we show what Spalko is seeing visions of in the end. I don't know what EXACTLY, but maybe horrible things from the past? future? Obivously the clips would have to build from something somewhat normal to something crazier and crazier. But using old news footage, etc might be kinda cool here. Might give the film that added weight that it needs.
Two things:
1. I think these would have to have some sort of effect to show she's seeing this in her mind. Nothing cheesy. Of course I don't have the tech know how to do this.
2. I would only want news footage or really old film footage. I don't want something from War of the Worlds in there or anything.
Deifinitely intrigued now to hear your ideas. Looking forward to it. I fell like the whole thing is on hold until I figure it out or someone else does. Of all the scenes to be stuck on it would HAVE to be the climax.
Sound interesting. Definitely send it my way. I'm curious to see how you transition from normal Spalko to eyes alight Spalko since the shot of her starting to burn up featues a big dumb alien. But I like the idea and think it could work.
Premiere
You're underestimating by ignorance... lol
How do you take a screenshot to begin with?
I also like the Indy skepticism, but he says the SAME thing later to Spalko. What makes that line interesting is we get the feeling that Indy MIGHT have a SLIGHTLY more open mind now after all he's seen so for all we know he may just be telling her this to mess with her hopes. So now we don't have the repeated line AND it helps establish motivation for Indy. He is STILL skeptical about the aliens though as these are a bit out of his realm of knowledge and experience. Thoughts?
Heks, I'd be happy too post some stills... how do I do that again?
I don't actually see Indy as James Bond. That was the direction that Lucas wanted to go, but Ford wanted him to be a bit more everyman than that. So I don't have a problem with the wedding scene (especially since it's Marion at the altar). What I have a problem with is the way it was handled. Like everything else, it was just goofy. It's like they weren't confident enough in their abilities to make a good movie, so they just made one that NEVER takes itself seriously. Like a shy guy who asks a girl out in a joking manner. If she says no, well, i was just a joke anyway. So while I am considering possibilities of recuting the wedding a bit, its not near the top of the list of things I wanted to change. Although I do agree it is similar to previous endings in the OT.
Meanwhile, the climax is KILLING ME! All I can think is to hire someone to digitally cut the full bodied alien from the scenes of Spalko dying. Like I said, as it is, the only scenes of her dying WITHOUT aliens in the shot are too few to create a meaningful climax. Like its over too quickly.
I also REALLY WANT to cut the Indy saving Mac scene. How were you going to accomplish this? I though maybe have Indy go for the whip, but the place quakes, Indy falls onto the steps whip in hand, then we see Mac flying away. Not SURE this will work, but I'll look. Any other ideas?
I really wanted to give this to my mom for Easter next weekend (aw, how sweet, I know) so I was hoping to get a copy burned by then. Not looking good though.