The First/Final Order “threat” was tackled in the most juvanile, simplistic and unnuanced way possible. Need to overthrow the Repulic? Easy, blow it up! Need stakes for the heroes? Gotcha here’s a million Deathstars! Look look we have “ePIc stAkS”.
come on.
Oh haven’t thought of that! Nice tie in, only problem is that it creates anticipation for the ewoks to get involved, which does not happen.
Neat idea. Looks pretty seamless.
The scene will also have to be rearranged to before the hanger reveal on kijjimi, it works well with the idea of changing Palpatines intentions at the start of the film to wanting Kylo to turn her and bring her to him.
https://youtu.be/YXpCns9RdAY In this TV spot Palpatine says “it is time that she learns her story” I wonder if this can replace Palpatines dialogue when he speaks to Kylo in his head ordering him to kill Rey.
RogueLeader said:
I think it would be cool to get an Old Republic story where we see opposing Jedi philosophies come to a head, not in a violent way, but where we see Jedi debate on the nature of the Force and the dark side. Maybe some Jedi see the dark side as an evil that needs to be purged, where others see it as an aspect of all life that needs to be understood.
That would be great to watch, they can probably pull inspiration from early church history with their theological and doctrinal difference, councils etc .
Behind the scenes footage of Luke and Leia’s extended flashback:
https://youtu.be/-vRa6FBB7hk
I also wish these sequel movies had more of a thematic connection to the wider saga. It would have been very poetic if the prequels were the fall of the Skywalkers, the OT was the rise of the Skywalkers, and the sequels were the legacy of the Skywalkers. Instead we got one boring OT rehash, one weird post-modernist take on the OT storyline, and one crossover fanfic where Palpatine meets the sequel trilogy characters. Hardly a cohesive trilogy, let alone a cohesive saga.
The problem with that is that doesn’t make for much of a story. If you want an ST that has the same stakes and style as the previous 6 films, you have to have some great evil threatening what the OT built. Timothy Zahn did it with clone Palpatines and Admiral Thrawn and his force inhibiting critters. To be epic enough and see if our OT heroes really did their job the ST has to threaten what they built in a significant way. We know on the Force side that Lucas basically came up with the Luke, Rey, Kylo (not a Skywalker) and Snoke structure and introcucing Luke at the very end of VII seems to have been Arndt, not Abrams. But we don’t know where either of them were going with the trilogy and if that would have been epic enough. Lucas has talked about the Whills, but no details. But for it to work and fit in, the ST has to endanger the results of the OT. The ST we got did that, though not to some people’s liking. Snoke being a clone and Palpatine’s puppet could have used some additional foreshadowing. To me it feels like a story development hiccough. They let Rian kill of Snoke because they thought Kylo was bad ass enough and then decided he wasn’t and needed something bigger. And thanks to Zahn, they had the ready made idea of a Palpatine Clone. Unless we actually get to see Lucas’s treatments (or even Arndt’s), we won’t know what the ST was going to look like before Abrams. Was it going to be epic enough? Was it going to work?
Timothy Zahn had nothing to do with Palpatine returning as a clone, he actually hated that plot thread in the old EU and tried his best to avoid referencing it in his trilogy, you are referring to Dark Empire by Tom Veitch. Secondly nobody said anything about wanting the ST to have “the same stakes” as the previous films, ironically that’s what damned this trilogy from the get go -Empire 2.0 - Deathstar 3 - Palpatine back at the top, “Same stakes” give me a brake. It seems to me just from reading your comments that, to be blunt, you don’t seem to have a clue…
Funny how TFA referenced balance in the force but completely threw out the prophecy, anakin’s redemption- his legacy which is what the ST should have been about. Instead of building on the past they just remade it. At least TLJ was trying to stear the ship to a meaningful conclusion but now in retrospect, with this new abomination ‘Tros’ I guess that’s what this new trilogy is damned to be, a shiny shallow Hollywood remake.
It’s definitely worth checking out, Kotor 2 is a very deep and thoughtful deconstruction of the force, the jedi an the sith.
I kind of like Rian’s ‘Jedi hubris’ idea. Honestly, the way these guys turn irreversibly evil if they lose their temper is reason enough to never train a Jedi again. At least normal people can go “oops, I got a bit carried away there - sorry”.
I think Kotor did it best.
Personal headcanon may be used in fanediting and what not but when discussing elements of George’s overall story its only fair that it be done in a holistic way.
Thanks for the thoughtful responses, to give you credit it does seem like George doesn’t really agree with himself sometimes when it comes to the nature of the force, nevertheless I want to focus on how the concept of “balance in the force” is depicted in the overarching story of the original 6 films in relation to the Disney films.
In the prequels The Jedi were at the height of their power yet the force was in a state of imbalance, this was due to the Sith rule of two who used the darkside and worked in the shadows, weakening the jedi and clouding their judgement. Enter the Chosen One and long story short he destroys the Sith and brings balance to the force, the Jedi live on. Now if we are to talk about about “balance” (a prequel innovation) than we cannot escape the prophecy of the the chosen one - the concept of balance exists primarily to compliment the prophecy.
When you look at the overarching story of the 6 film saga the relationship between the light and dark is clearly depicted as anti-symbiotic, contrary to the ying yang, dark and light as two halves of one coin spiel in TLJ, we see that when the force is in balance the darkside (while always there) has an alluring presence on the periphery of the Light(what the force mostly consists of), the imbalance happens when the darkside is used excessively like when the sith are on a power trip hence poisoning the well, when the sith were destroyed the power of the darkside diminished back to the periphery of the spectrum- bringing the force back into balance.
I don’t think I’m misunderstanding what I think is a pretty obvious oversight regarding the nature of the force on the part of RJ but I’m open to hearing any possible explanations.
I think justifying things with “because he was a hermit” can only take you so far. Luke’s beef was with the Jedi, not with the force, his intention in the first lesson was to teach Rey about the force, Jaded luke’s philosophy comes in the second lesson when he talks about the Jedi being a failure, Even Rian said that Lukes goal was to stop the constant cycle between Jedi and Sith rising to power - so by taking the jedi out of the equation the Force will choose someone worthier to take up the mantle of the force.
It’s all meaningless though because the idea behind it is fundamentally flawed.
I think he fact Sidious has declared his return and has a fleet somewhere is by itself cause for hurry without any need for a countdown.
Rian fundamentally misunderstands the force in TLJ.
Luke: “Balance - Powerful light, Powerful darkness.” is a reductionist corruption of George’s idea of balance. The darkside is the imbalance - an abomination of the force, the Light represents the force when it’s in its truest nature- balanced. The idea that light and dark represent The ying/yang in the force is something George opposed vehemently and to me highlights just how out of touch the ST is with the 6 film saga.
I just remembered that the entire film spans the time of less than a day which is ridiculous, imagine being a random bystander hearing that Palpatine returned and is about to take over the galaxy and in a day everyone’s like “oh wait nevermind”.
Gotta get rid of that dum countdown, in “16 hours” they manage to travel to kijjimi, endor, achto and exogol…
Tecotron 2
The movie was shit, Disney needs a wake up call (although it deserved much less)
I think it would sound more raw if we use Adam’s since there is a lot more material out there with his voice, then add the Kylo Ren affect.
If you want a twist for the movie, how about Rey buries the lightsabers and then looks at the camera and her eyes are sithy and you hear a palpatine laugh like from the trailer. Palpatine wins, end of saga.
Honestly would have preferred that to what we got, that way the next trilogy will have Rey as the Antagonist and Finn as the Jedi or something.
https://youtu.be/Pz8Ll6DQnTc Alec Guinness reads the Darth Plagueis Copypasta.
Its amazing how seamless this is, Im sure something can be done with Adam Drivers voice to this affect.
You are cough cough a bold one.
I liked TLJ in general but after watching that scene I felt…nothing, empty. It felt to me like luke was getting cheated, like he was written into a corner and and was forced to die by the writer, just when we thought he triumphantly returned…he dies because of the circumstances, his weakness. For me Obi-wan appearing in that moment to welcome his friend into the next life not only fills that emptiness for me but reassures not only him, but us too that it’s ok to let go even when you don’t have to, to ascend into a higher plane of existence and to let others carry on the baton.