The way I see it, Lucasfilm Games has been created as way to circumvent the exclusivity deal with EA, because it seems like Disney has realized it was a mistake with EA releasing a grand total of three games, of which only one (Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order) is truly good.
It also reinforces what I’ve been saying for years, that closing LucasArts was a mistake.
So, the internet is filled with hot takes on what is wrong with TLJ, but recently I’ve been thinking about it and realized that there’s a big unifying issue that I haven’t heard brought up before: The new allies in TLJ are introduced as antagonists.
Basically, Luke, Rose, and Holdo all end up helping our three heroes by the end of the film and are characterized in purely heroic ways, yet their introductions portray them as pure antagonists to our heroes.
Luke immediately throws away the lightsaber and shuts himself in his hut, refusing to help Rey or the Resistance.
Rose, despite her initial fangirl attitude, actively thwarts Finn’s escape attempt in the process and then accuses him of being a traitor.
Holdo immediately gives Poe a dressing-down and refuses to let him in on her plans, to the point that he believes that she is an enemy.Compare this to ESB, where Yoda is introduced as an eccentric neutral character who may or may not help Luke, whereupon he quickly reveals himself as a true ally, who becomes antagonistic only to help train Luke and they part as friends in ROTJ. Lando is similarly portrayed as being of questionable loyalty until he quickly reaffirms his friendship with Han and his desire to help. Granted he has been compromised by the Empire but his intentions are always good and these win out in the end.
The reason for establishing the affability of allies quickly is simple - first impressions matter. It will take only a scene or two for the audience to decide whether or not they like a character, and the easiest way to do this is to have said character help our heroes. Wait too long and even a character with good motives will become annoying or downright antagonistic to the heroes, and by proxy to the audience.
This is where TLJ fails. The average viewer will see the irritation these supposed allies cause our heroes and will be irritated in turn. If left to fester for scene after scene, this will turn into full-blown anger and then whiplash when the antagonistic character is revealed to be ‘good’. This is especially true with Holdo, where the film goes from characterizing her as an antagonist to Poe to having her perform a full-blown heroic sacrifice in the space of a few minutes.
This problem of antagonistic allies could have been fixed fairly easily at the script stage without changing the film too much.
For example, Luke could have pretended to help Rey and even given her an introductory lesson. Then at the end of the lesson he could have said “…and this is why it is time for the Jedi to end.” The audience would be in shock; they have just seen Luke as presumably his old heroic self, allowing themselves to get on board with his character, only to have the rug pulled out from under them in an interesting way. Luke is an ally to Rey since he has already given her instruction, but now he is antagonizing her in order to force her into conflict and growth, just as Yoda did with Luke.
Rose could have met with Finn as he packed to escape the cruiser, someone who wanted to help the great Finn in this presumably secret mission for the Resistance. He tells her that he has to find Rey, as she is in trouble and is the last hope of the Resistance, flashing the binary beacon at Rose. So she helps him, but as they make their way to the escape pod she takes a minute to reflect and asks him how they will find this ship again. Finn says that he and Rey will use the Force, but in a callback to TFA Rose calls his bluff and stuns him. So at this point the viewer has come to consider Rose as a part of the Finn/Rose teamup, and we feel guilt that Finn has misled her instead of annoyance that she is getting in the way of our favorite former Stormtrooper.
Finally, Holdo is made the acting leader of the Resistance. She appreciates Poe’s contribution and asks him how their location was discovered. Poe vows to figure that out, and convenes with Finn and Rose to discuss the problem. In the meantime Holdo learns of Poe’s hasty demotion by Leia as her last act and becomes more cold toward Poe since he failed to mention this demotion, and when he comes to her ranting about ‘impossible’ First Order tech and a harebrained scheme to leave the ship to find a master code breaker, she suspects that Poe could be the spy. Their spiraling mistrust leads to Poe going rogue and initiating the scheme without Holdo’s permission. This structure allows for at least a scene of Poe and Holdo working together before the troubles appear, and since both think they are in the right the audience expects that the misunderstanding will resolve, which it does when Leia awakens.
…Well, this turned out longer than I expected. The short of it is that Rian was so enamored with subverting expectations that he forgot to make the allies of the film likeable from the outset.
I dunno. Those characterizations worked perfectly fine with me. I must definitely be some sort of extraterrestrial being, because I don’t find any fault with TLJ.
My opinion changes? Let’s see.
When I was a kid TESB was my favourite of the OT, but as I found out that it’s pretty much everyone’s favourite SW movie it kinda turned me off of the movie. In my teenage years ROTJ became my favourite, and now I don’t have any preference regarding the OT.
I thoroughly enjoyed the PT when they came out in the cinemas, but it wasn’t until sometime before the premiere of ROTS that I found online how many people were disappointed with them, and while I agree that they’re not as good as the OT, that has not diminished my appreciation for the PT in any way.
When Disney acquired Lucasfilm and announced the Sequel Trilogy I was cautiously optimistic, but I wasn’t the least bit thrilled when J.J. Abrams was confirmed as the director of episode VII, because any movie directed by him has always left me feeling underwhelmed, but gave it a chance based on all the positive feedback, however my suspicions were proven right, because never before has a movie disappointed me as thoroughly as TFA, and it is because of such a massive letdown that I refuse to watch TROS or any movie directed by Abrams.
Apart from the movies, when I first played KOTOR II - TSL, I felt like playing an incomplete game and felt it was lackluster, however many years later a friend told me to seek out something called TSLRCM. So I dusted off KOTOR II, installed the mod and now I consider KOTOR II to be one of the greatest CRPGs of all time.
Finally, there is one Star Wars property where my opinion has changed for the worse, and that is Star Wars Rebels. Over the years I have grown to despise that series for being so sanitized, were the Empire are portrayed as incompetent fools who are thwarted at every turn, and the characters the series focuses on are a bunch of whiney, simpering meatbags. Iconic villains like Maul and Thrawn are wasted, and as previously stated it’s always mission accomplished with (almost) no casualties, thus taking out any tension away. I don’t know how anyone can like this garbage.
Where would I download this scan when it’s eventually released?
I don’t think you’re supposed to root for the Maul-collaborating terrorists. I’d even argue Bo-Katan gets too much of a free pass, given her actions when she was part of Death Watch.
The problem is that the good guys are overly idealistic holier-than-thou idiots. It’s hard for me to root for such naivety. So the way I see it, Satine got what was coming to her.
Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.
Hate leads to suffering.
My hate subsided once she was deposed.
Satine was perhaps the character I hated the most throughout the entire series. It was so satisfying to see her overthrown by Pre Vizsla.
If there’s one important character TCW touched upon which I love the way they handled, it would be Tarkin when he was merely a military strategist for the Republic. He only shows up in one episode but it’s very memorable and he makes quite the impression on Anakin, who finds himself quietly agreeing with Tarkin’s views on how the strong should rule over the weak and his more ruthless approach to warfare.
This is how Anakin’s path down the dark side should have started, as the Clone Wars waged on he grew to despise weakness, which IMO would have made for a far more compelling story than some stupid desire to save Padmé from dying in childbirth.
I recently watched the series all the way through based on all the positive feedback, with comments such as “this is how the PT should have been handled”.
Personally I don’t think TCW is all that great, only worth watching when passing the time. The only storyline I genuinely enjoyed was the Mandalore storyline where Pre Viszla overthrows Satine, the rest was just OK.
I watched The Clone Wars series, and frankly I don’t think it’s as great as everyone makes it out to be, it’s simply an OK TV series to watch when passing the time.
Over the years I have grown to despise Star Wars Rebels, because it ultimately renders the struggles of the Rebellion meaningless. Episode after episode it’s always Mission Accomplished with (almost) no casualties, and the Empire is so inept it makes me wonder how they have managed to rule the Galaxy for twenty years with the Rebels thwarting them at every turn. I also hate how sanitized and risk-averse the content is, alway cutting away whenever a character is about to die, no lightsaber impalements which were a staple in TCW, and how idealistic the characters are, or Hondo Ohnaka, who was a serious character in TCW was turned into a slapstick buffoon. I really hated the Bendu, a supposedly neutral character yet he only aids the good guys, runs for cover when a darksider shows up and tells Thrawn he will fail, so much for being “The one in the middle”. And finally, there’s Grand Admiral Thrawn, the Empire’s foremost military strategist is reduced to a one-note character playing a supposed “long game” that never pays off and is defeated in the most embarassing way by whiny teenager Ezra in the series finale. sigh
I really needed to get that one off my chest.
Red, but outside of the main three lightsaber colours I would pick orange.
I’m been watching screen comparisons and this is my take: FOTR Blu-ray has revisionist colour timing, TTT and ROTJ 4Ks have revisionist colour timing. You just can’t win.
The thing that will always infuriate me about Ezra is how over the course of the first two seasons of Rebels they strongly hinted at Ezra falling to the dark side, particularly in the season two finale, and then they completely drop that storyline after the premier of season three.
I just hope this doesn’t become yet another “promise it’s from the bad guys perspective” only to become a redemption story 3 episodes in. Let’s get a full-blown evil Sith - no redemptions!
I’m not holding my breath. Remember how the first two seasons of Star Wars Rebels hinted strongly at Ezra falling to the dark side? Once season three premiered that subplot was dropped after one episode.
Based on his movie appearances alone I must say Boba Fett is the most overrated character in the franchise, because he does absolutely nothing noteworthy in either TESB or ROTJ, yet everywhere I look people rank him amongst the greatest SW characters. Based on what? Wearing a cool looking suit of armour? Give me a break.
All these complaints about Force lightning remind me of what Plinkett said in his reviews of the prequels, that the Emperor using Force lightning in ROTJ was to show his deep knowledge of the Force, however by the prequels using Force lightning means you have achieved level 12 Sith status.
Vader slaughtering the rebel soldiers at the end of Rogue One isn’t that impressive, because at the end of the day they are frightened unprepared men who are clearly no match for him.
There’s certainly interest in the fact that the Republic is portrayed as a completely ineffectual opposition to Palpatine’s rise - the deleted subplot from ROTS where a group of senators gather together with the apparent aim of stopping Palpatine consolidating power, but achieve absolutely nothing except a completely useless meeting and thus doom the galaxy to 25 years of violent resistance, comes to mind. Palpatine’s use of a scapegoat enemy he himself manufactured to justify his forever war is also notable, as is the reference to the military-industrial complex via the Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, Banking Clan etc. And of course the visceral display of inequality and arrogance in how the Jedi and Senate literally live and work in ivory towers and great domes miles above the average people of Coruscant with whom they rarely seem to have any interaction (and even further from the Outer Rim), despite suffering, crime, slavery, and so on being very prevalent. These aren’t especially profound or controversial takes generally, but are a little spicier than what most movies aimed at a similar demographic have to say.
This point is best illustated in TPM when, upon learning about slavery on Tatooine, the only one who is truly shocked and outraged is Padmé, whilst Qui-Gon flat out says they’re only looking for ship repairs and that they’re not here to liberate slaves.
Just finished reading the first Dune book, and I want to share my thoughts in relation to adaptations past and future.
Before reading the book I was familiar with it through the 1984 film adaptation, which I have seen quite a few times and am rather fond of. Suffice to say it was pretty easy to navigate through the pages of the book, as the movie is an accurate recreation of the broad strokes of the story (minus the ridiculous happy happy ending where Paul becomes a literal deity that can summon rain).
Which makes me question those who criticize the 1984 film for not being faithful to the source material. If anything this is one of the most faithful adaptations I’ve ever seen of any book, with a few instances of casting that are spot-on, like Max von Sydow, who’s perfect as Liet-Kynes, as well as Sean Young who matches Chani’s elfin face as described in the book, and Virginia Madsen is Princess Irulan, period. As for the actors who are miscast I would say Patrick Stewart as Gurney Halleck, who looks far too stately for a man who’s been to hell and back, but the blow is softened by Stewart’s outstanding performance.
I found Baron Harkonnen to be an oddly charming character, and since he’s described as having a basso voice, in my mind he speaks like James Earl Jones. Kenneth McMillan as the Baron Harkonnen is so over-the-top I don’t buy him as an evil genius.
Emperor Shaddam IV is described as being in his seventies yet looks no older than 35. Why did both adaptations insist on casting actors in their sixties? (José Ferrer and Giancarlo Giannini)
I’ve never seen the 2000 Syfy miniseries, but both the movie and the TV miniseries IMO got it right in having a baroque aesthetic, although from the few screenshots I’ve seen the costumes are a bit too flamboyant in the miniseries, and there are some things that don’t fit in the movie as well, such as having the Bene Gesserit women having their heads shaved completely bald, or the Sardaukar having black hazmat suits for uniforms.
Which brings me to my final point, the upcoming 2021 movie. Dune is a book that can get quite trippy and invites the reader to imagine some pretty astounding visuals. I’m not getting any of that vibe from Denis Villeneuve’s movie, where everyone is dressed in black, a bit of white or any shade of grey. Speaking of colours (or lack thereof), I don’t like the muted colour timing. From an aesthetic point of view, the sets look barren. I’m sorry, but visually, this movie looks bland and boring.
Apologies for the long post.
Just finished reading the first Dune book. Awesome read.
So, based on everything I’ve read so far, The Expanse is hard science fiction with a strong emphasis on being as scientifically plausible as possible, with a few artistic liberties.
On a related note. As cool as the scene of Vader taking down the rebel soldiers at the end of Rogue One looks, I must remind everyone that he’s slaughtering a bunch of frightened unprepared men who are clearly no match for him.
Most unimpressive, I would say.
Surprise surprise! I’m back. Sorry for the inconvenience, but… I jus’ want to voice my opinion on horror films. Sorry for the wall of text, but here we go…
I strongly believe films are only really effective if it’s more than blood and gore, and there is no one in the film to react to it. The best types of horror. Stuff that isn’t just “Someone gets their body/face extremely fucked up and a character screams” but jump scares are the absolute worst. It’s just a very cheap form of horror especially if it gets a reaction from a character. I also love creepy ominous horror. Just, extremely unsettling images and sounds, that get gradually worse and worse, like something is going to come…but it never really does. NOT just cheap scares. I love atmosphere, and horror films should also have a unique palette, not that boring contemporary looking colours. Make the plot not just paranormal activity in someone’s home or the street. Give it a unique ‘feel’.
Pennywise from both ‘It’ films have their both pros and cons about their looks. Tim Curry’s Pennywise from 1991 looks great apart from the costume which looks a bit naff. Whatshisname’s Pennywise from 2017 (I’m not gonna even bother looking up his name) has a superb costume, his hair and makeup is good, but the face ruins it. Why did you have to pick some young dude? And don’t even get me started on those goofy-ass buck teeth.
Now, don’t judge me as I haven’t really seen either of these movies, but…
Eraserhead is a great example of my type of horror, bizarre images with bizarre sounds, no cheap shit. Same with the Exorcist. While both of these movies have people in them to react to them they are still PROPER HORROR.
Slasher movies are the absolute worst type of horror. They don’t scare me or make me feel creeped out. Sure, they have you on edge, but it isn’t really unique or effective, unless you’re squeamish or something.
TL;DR True horror films should have a sense of extreme creepiness or unease, have non-gory unsettling images and sounds, and have no one to react to them, therefore the viewer feels much more creeped out and it stays on them much longer. And to hell with slasher films. No pun intended.
The LBIC ad, while not meant to be creepy, is a great example of what I’m talking about.
P.S. it would be superb if anyone could direct me to something like it, think Little Baby’s Ice Cream crossed with Dining Room or there is Nothing, with the latter’s grainy and warm-coloured palette and horrific sound effects.
That is all.
The movie Us is a type of horror movie the likes of which I had never seen before. Watching the movie from start to finish there’s no jump scares, no unsettling images or anything like that, but once the credits started rolling and I started thinking about the movie I was left feeling deeply disturbed.
Because I feel this would be the perfect place to discuss the Dune saga in general. The books, the adaptations, etc.
Given the long wait, may I suggest renaming this the Dune General Discussion Thread?