darth_ender

Twooffour, we can get away with more, and I would likely not be so blunt in reality were I to address others here personally.  But I think it gets to a point of being unreasonable all too often, and that was my original intent.  Let me give a hypothetical dialogue.

-I like the PT because of such and such.

-PT sux!!!!!!! lol rofl byob rsvp tgif tnt

-Umm...I like it.

-UR stupid!!! sol omg laser bff ttfn

Here I exaggerate and am not accusing anyone of such silliness (before I tangentially offend anyone again).  I'm just adding some humor.  But my point is that I get annoyed when I try to provide reasons for liking something and then get shut down in five words or less simply because someone does not like it.  I prefer reason to bumper sticker slogans.  That is my reason for causing this whole debate, and that is why I'm always so long-winded.

By the way, bet you all didn't know that laser is an acronym.  It stands for Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation.  Now go win at Trivial Pursuit :)

Tyrphanax, you said everything far more eloquently than I could have.  Very good, and I'm glad I read this, as you broadened the thought I already had swimming in my head.  The only thing I might add is that there is a futility in trying to suppress evil.  Evil will spring up in the sterile emotionless Old Jedi Order or in the passionate New Jedi Order (as it does in the EU).  It can't be stopped.  I think the big moral is that one can never be complacent or apathetic.  One must always be wary, as the strength you feel you may have will ultimately be your undoing.  Thanks for quoting your thought here, as I can honestly say it helps me appreciate the connection between the trilogies better.

Not intending to stereotype.  I just notice that people's feelings become much stronger when online due to the accompanying anonymity.  Believe me, I have my passions.  But if you notice, people are generally more polite in person than on the Internet.  To me, that seems to be because you can get away with it more.  Instead of having to back up your statements or use a polite tone, you simply say, "That's the way it is," and you feel proud of your tough stance and little guilt over who might be offended.  It's not just here, and I admit to falling into this tendency on a number of occasions.  It's merely a sociological observation, and not a condemnation of a group of Star Wars fans, a group to which I proudly belong.

Oh, you edited your post.  I'm glad I hadn't offended you.  I thought maybe I had, and wanted to assure it wasn't my intention.

TV's Frink said:

darth_ender said:

TV's Frink said:

We stopped reading.

:p

 That's nice.  Then don't comment.

It was just a joke, hence the :p

 I know.  My response was a joke as well.  See the following comment with its accompanying :p, as "anyone" was an allusion to you.

darth_ender said:

I know.  I think I word things a little strongly, and I hope I haven't offended him [TV's Frink].  I actually like reading what he says too.  He said some encouraging words to me about editing (which I doubt I'll ever have time to commit to, but he suggested I start making a little time).  But as I've already stated, we get on the Internet, and we become remarkably bold.  I hope I haven't come off as too antagonistic either.  I just like to get into debates, and my wording may be a tad sharp for some.  Thanks for the welcoming words, xhonzi.  I hope I haven't scared anyone off :p

Mrebo said:

darth_ender said:

You know, I suspect that if these movies came out in sequential order rather than OT, then PT, people would see them as inferior but still decent films.

If Star Wars had no history and started with Episode I in the year 1999, then sure that's possible. I'm not thoroughly convinced, but it is a reasonable proposition. The excessive slapstick humor, terrible love scenes, poor acting, and intrusive CGI would be hallmarks of the Star Wars franchise. There would be critics of the PT, as there are of any movies, but it wouldn't be based on precise notions of what it could have been (like if we had alternative visions of the Star Wars universe from other films).

The passion on this board amuses me.

-_- Funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh?

I certainly don't like the PT nearly as much, but I can still watch and enjoy them.  In my mind, I can incorporate them into my personal Star Wars canon or disregard them, depending on my mood.

I don't completely fault people for this view. Especially younger people. I fault George Lucas for it :(

After seeing Avatar, my younger cousin who was a huge Star Wars fan announced that he thinks Avatar is even better than Star Wars. Can't really blame him seeing as he grew up with the PT.

Before you feel frustrated by yet another challenging reply, I'm saying you do have a point, but I think it's an unfortunate one. I certainly don't feel animosity toward you. What upsets so many is that we had hopes of what the PT could have been and those hopes are forever dashed. Just as if this had been ESB (still makes me jump a little xD). And some of us are honestly critical of the PT in its own right and can't enjoy it. Just as I appreciate the Holiday Special in its own right by not watching it.

And this is all relevant to liking elements of the prequels since many of us habitually contrast every element with the OT. My point is that this is justified!

As for what I liked: the water planet of Kamino and the battle between Jango and Obi Wan. I thought Watto was a good character. I liked Zam Wesell. I like the concept of a crisis leading up to a military creation act.

 Not at all frustrated by what you add.  I agree, I wish they were better, but those hopes, as you said, are forever dashed.  But I still like them for what they are instead of hating them for what they could have been.  Thanks for the nice words.

I think I caused a ruckus by simply prefacing my comments on the Jedi Order with a justification.  You are correct, and I agree, that everyone else's opinion is justified.  I just tend to get a little strong when people say, "You're wrong, this is how it is," without justifying their view.  But I think we all got a fun little debate out of it.  Hope you all agree.

I know.  I think I word things a little strongly, and I hope I haven't offended him.  I actually like reading what he says too.  He said some encouraging words to me about editing (which I doubt I'll ever have time to commit to, but he suggested I start making a little time).  But as I've already stated, we get on the Internet, and we become remarkably bold.  I hope I haven't come off as too antagonistic either.  I just like to get into debates, and my wording may be a tad sharp for some.  Thanks for the welcoming words, xhonzi.  I hope I haven't scared anyone off :p

TV's Frink said:

We stopped reading.

:p

 That's nice.  Then don't comment.

Well, I hate drawn out debates.  I respect all your opinions, but after this post, I will cease all efforts, and you can tear my thoughts to shreds.  I will still like you all afterwards.  Let me reiterate that the PT is inferior in numerous regards.  It does not mesh well with the OT.  It has plot holes, unnecessary subplots, unnecessary characters, poor dialogue, a lot of slapstick, poor acting from great actors, overused CGI, etc.  That being said, if I walked into TPM in 1999 with the OT never having existed prior, I would have thought that Jar Jar was obnoxious, and that certain things were not to my liking, but I still would probably purchase the film when it came out on video.  I did that with Spider-man 1, though I had my problems with it as well, particularly the silly Green Goblin.  I would not expect TPM to be a monumental epic.  I would simply consider it a summer action flick in the sci-fi genre.  Say we get through Eps I-III.  I would have enjoyed them enough to buy the trilogy.  20 years later, Ep IV comes out.  I would be impressed with the jump and the maturity of the beginning of a new trilogy.  As Ep V and VI come out, I'd grow in amazement and forever see the PT as inferior.  But I would still enjoy them for what they were.  The biggest difference is that my expectations would have been different.  I have my problems with the PT, but I can still appreciate them, not for what GL hoped them to be, but for what they are to me: cheesy action films with a plot that relates to the far superior OT.

I don't smoke, but I will take a blindfold.

timdiggerm said:

darth_ender said:

You know, I suspect that if these movies came out in sequential order rather than OT, then PT, people would see them as inferior but still decent films.

Have you seen the Red Letter Media reviews?

 No, I haven't, but I'll take a look when I can.  I did read the Wikipedia article on it.  I'm sure it is insightful, and I look forward to when I can.  Believe me, I have problems with the PT, but if we look with perspective, we'll see many of the same problems with other films we are more accepting towards.  The biggest variable is that other popular films don't have the OT to build up greater expectations.

You know, I expected more comments regarding the Jedi Order which comprised the bulk of my message, not the first couple of sentences.  Oh well :)

The internet is a great place for people with passion to state their viewpoints as absolute facts.  I don't mean to criticize.  I enjoy reading your posts, and you guys make me laugh.  But simply because this website exists does not mean that the PT would not have been popular of its own accord.  There are four Pirates of the Carribean movies, and the first was the only enjoyable film in my mind.  Star Trek has come out with 11 movies, some of them horrendously bad.  How many horror films have produced innumerable stupid sequels, yet still garner a loyal fan-base?  Just watched the new X-men movie, and that is a franchise that has really gone downhill in my mind, but I doubt they're done.

Likewise, there are websites devoted to bashing the new Batman franchise, which I greatly enjoy.  It's hard for most Internet surfers to believe, but there are other opinions out there.  And to top it off, those with differing opinions are actually allowed to feel that way.  Divergent opinions are still valid.

I hope not to make enemies at a site entitled originialtrilogy.com.  I am disappointed with the PT as well.  But I can still enjoy them and feel no guilt for doing so; I will sleep fine tonight, even with the knowledge that others here think I'm a heretic and/or moron.  I enjoy all your points of view, and will happily post something when I ifeel like it, wishing no ill will on those who think that unaltered OT is the Word of God that shall not be tampered with.  I come to this site because I truly love the originals, but also because I love all the variations, official and official.

Why are there all those laser dots shining on my head and chest?

You know, I suspect that if these movies came out in sequential order rather than OT, then PT, people would see them as inferior but still decent films.  The passion on this board amuses me.  I certainly don't like the PT nearly as much, but I can still watch and enjoy them.  In my mind, I can incorporate them into my personal Star Wars canon or disregard them, depending on my mood.

To keep with the point of the thread, I would like to comment on one particular aspect which I know has been criticized, but seems logical to me, especially in light of the EU and reality.  As we know, power corrupts.  Any power like the force would be so tempting as to be truly corrupting.  In the Star Wars universe, I suspect that when the force was first discovered, most wielders found themselves utilizing it for evil.  As Yoda said, the dark side is quicker, easier, more seductive.  But it is not more powerful.  As those who learned to use the force become more aware of its capabilities, they also realized that great discipline must accompany its mastery, else the user would fall to the dark side.

So now we get to the PT.  The Jedi are an extremely rigid and disciplined group.  They are indeed powerful force users, but only because they are willing to take years to master the good rather than days to master the evil.  But at the same time, their rigidity contributed to Anakin's fall, their inability to detect Palpatine's growing influence, and it ultimately led to their downfall.

To sum up, I know most do not like the portrayal of the Jedi Order, but to me, it is actually a logical system for security that simultaneously leads to their demise.  I like this idea.  The dark side is not stronger, but the light is so difficult to master.

That's the one I found, the dry, no sound effects, Chuch Benson recording.  It's not awful in my opinion, as the story is more important to me than the sound effects.  However, the reader bugs me at times, and the sound effects do greatly enhance the story.  I'd love to get the new one when it comes out.

Since it seems many are not thta into the audio books, perhaps you know, skyjedi2005.  On Wookieepedia we are told that there is an unabridged version of the OT novels.  However, I cannot seem to find this anywhere on Amazon, for download, or anywhere else.  I already have the radio dramatization and the abridged version, but I'm really interested in the full story.  Do you know if this is a mistake on Wookieepedia, or if there is truly an unabridged version?  If there is, where would I find it?

skyjedi2005 said:

The anniversary edition of Heir to the Empire is coming when ?

I know there is an unabridged audio-recording on CD being read by Marc Thompson coming out a bit later than the hardback.

Del Rey claims sales figures will be figured into whether or not they reprint Dark Force Rising or the Last Command as special annotated hardback editions, or full unabridged audio recordings.

Kind of sad though that the abridged recordings from audio-cassette are not being reissued on CD, the first one read by Wedge Antilles Dennis Lawson, and the other 2 read by C-3PO or Anthony "tony" Daniels.

 I managed to find an unabridged version online.  It's actually digitized from audio cassettes.  While the reader isn't great, I prefer the unabridged versions of books in almost all cases.

You know, I happen to be a bigger fan of the PT than most.  If they had come out first, followed by the OT 20 years later, they would have been seen as decent movies by most at least, and the OT would have been a big step up.  I still enjoy them for what they are.

I know the movies are riddled with continuity errors, but one that recently started bugging me (I don't know if it was ever brought up here or elsewhere) is when the shields close that separate Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Maul in TPM.  Why couldn't a slice or two on the side where the shield was generated shut the whole thing down?  A couple of blasts shut down the hangar shields in the opening battle of ROTS.  Why can't a lightsaber do the same?

TheoOdo said:

Has anybody ever thought of doing something about the repeat Greedo that shows up about 51 minutes in?

I've always found it very jarring to see a guy we just saw murdered walking around like it ain't nothin'. I remember pausing it as a kid and going "Look! See! He's alive!"

I know there's probably some EU explanation about traditional Rodian jumpsuits or something, but I'd rather see this dealt with.

I threw this together quickly, just to show the sort of thing I mean.

 I agree.

As TPM is probably my favorite PT film, I enjoy checking out the multitude of edits made of it.  Please keep us posted on how this is progressing.  I'd love to see the end product.

I wasn't able to reply because for some odd reason, IE was having trouble reading this post since Coinilius's first comment.  I just today decided to use Chrome instead, and read how many encouraging words were written since my last comment.  Thanks for the thoughts.  You never know, maybe one day I will get to my own edit.

In a sense, this leads to a different thought I've been having: I notice that different editors seem to have strengths in different areas, i.e. sound and/or music, visual/special effects, storyline and alterations, etc.  It seems wise to me that a larger project should be started, where at least 3 skilled editors get together and focus on different aspects.  In the beginning, some discussion would be necessary to give the project a direction in which all parties would agree.  However, after initial agreement, a large measure of independence would be afforded to each editor in his area of specialty.  He would of course provide frequent updates to the others who would critique and make suggestions, but ultimately he has the final say in his arena.  In the end, a very impressive final product could be delivered, and with the input of more than one person, that product would more likely appeal to a larger audience.  Any thoughts?

I seldom comment, particularly on personal matters, as I feel my words would not convey the same sincerity I feel considering my status mostly as a lurker.  However, I feel compelled to echo the sentiments of others, and want you to know that a prayer goes out for you from me.

Well, I'll be honest.  I have far too little time, skill, finances, or motivation to work on any sort of edit.  I simply enjoy reading through the forum in my few free minutes and offer unsolicited ideas that don't generally ring with anyone else.  I find it fun.  I appreciate the fact that you are generally less sarcastic than other posters on this site, Bingowings.  One thing I've learned is that people become exponentially braver and more sarcastic when posting online.  90% try to develop an obnoxiously arrogant and opinionated attitude so their views have greater impact.  I don't get offended by their comments (like Darth Stewie did) since I will never meet anyone here and I do have friends that I actually talk to in person.  However, it is nice to have a little respect when you share ideas on the Web, even from someone who disagrees.

As the topic of needing more women in these movies has been brought up, and as the OP pointed out that one of the pilots is a male-dubbed female actor, a humble recommendation would be to dub her with a female voice again.  I kind off imagine a tougher woman's voice, someone with a little deeper voice.  I like your idea, Bingowings, with the surviving pilots, by the way.

Watching this right now, and I have to say I am quite impressed with how this turned out.  On top of that, I'm pleased with your intention for the PT and preserving the secret, something I am hoping you can successfully pull off.  Keep up the fantastic work!

Good idea about Jabba.  I too had an idea, though not so radical.  Jabba's lines can be rewritten to make them more intimidating, while Han's remain the same, which make him a bit more of a wise guy in the face of a legitimate threat.  Moreover, his booming laugh should be added in a couple of spots, most obviously after Han calls him a "wonderful human being."  Moreover, I think he should be bigger.  He looks to be smaller in SW than in ROTJ, which has always bothered me a bit.  There has to be something that could be done about Han walking behind him.  With modern CGI technology, I think perhaps he could be made to appear to walk in front instead.  Just my two cents to improve the scene.

Thank you, Johannus, for your faith in my idea.  I agree however that George Lucas would not be fond of a full-blown mini-series.  I really would love to see a live-action adaptation myself.  I would picture it somewhat different from the style established with the OT and PT, but I think it could still be a worthwhile adaptation.  Maybe one day I will get working on the screenplay.  Maybe one day soon :)

Well, you're right, my idea would not belong in the fanedit forum.  I did not mention this, but my idea was the sort of pipedream that I (or someone) would write up screenplays for King George the L and that he would allow such an adaptation.  But being as I'm in the wrong thread for such an idea, I will stop now.