darth_ender

I finally uploaded some voice impersonations.  You know, you never sound the same when you hear a recording of yourself...Many of my impersonations are not that great, but I think my best are Jerjerrod, 3PO, and Boba Fett.  Could work on some others, but no guarantee that anything would be great.  In any case, I submit myself to your scrutiny as a potential voice actor for a few dubbed lines if need be.  Hopefully we can also get some others to try their hand at this.

http://www.4shared.com/zip/JbpUYPen/Impersonations.html

Yes, I just saw that for his foot.  You are correct.  But he gave me a link to his YouTube channel and it likes like he has some CGI animation skills as well.  I'll correct the first post to reflect these sorts of special effects.  Thanks for the catch, Angel :)

Your opinion does matter.  This edit relies on various opinions.  I personally want him to live, and I've thought of how it might play out if he dies.  It does seem anti-climactic, though I began entertaining the idea a little more a couple of days ago and considered the upside.  Overall, I think I still am sticking with my original preference as well.  Thanks for your input, and you are welcome to provide more at any time.

Good news, all: Jaitea has agreed to join our team.  He stated in a PM that he is pretty busy at work but that he'd be happy to take part in a few parts, and he gave permission for me to update the first post with his name as a team member.  Jaitea is good with the CGI: he made the big AT-AT foot as a demo for Ady's edit, and I've seen some of his other stuff as well.

I think everything is currently still up for debate.  Soon I'll have a vote on several items, but if you have any thoughts, we'd love to hear it :)

I really like the radio drama.  It's nice to hear the original actors, but I think I also really appreciate those who did not play in the films.  I think Perry King's version of Han is so different from Harrison Ford's but I appreciate it for what it is, not what it isn't.  He brings a different sort of scoundrel to the story.

Should have given those other trilogies more credit, as I agree with your assessments of all four mentioned strong finales.  But I really imagine this movie to be simply incredible.  I have never been disappointed by Nolan, and I don't believe this will be a first.  As you say, he has a knack for good storytelling, not letting the "more is better" syndrome interfere with simply telling a good tale.

And I agree with your take of the new Supes movie as well.  It'll be nice to see how his producing it will guide the film.

So the 6 1/2 minute prologue leak is pretty crappy quality, worse the The Dark Knight leak.

http://www.tagtele.com/videos/voir/76551

The transcript helps, but though I couldn't wait to watch this, I have a feeling I'll still enjoy this scene as much as ever when I see it in the theater.

The quite public trailer seems great as well.  I have a feeling I will see one of the most successful trilogies in history, with each film succeeding its predecessor in greatness.  At least I hope that's the case.  I really love these movies.

Wow!  Fantastico!

I just had another thought: what if just a few seconds of the Falcon's entry to the Death Star were moved to it's exit, particularly the front shots?  It's always been kind of weird that it took so long to get the reactor and they get out so quickly.  A few seconds trimmed on one way and added on the other might better create the appropriate illusion.

Looking good!

Tim, I see your point regarding the various celebrations, and probably would ultimately choose to keepthem for that reason.  While I prefer the OT, I don't wish to discount the PT, and therefore I agree that it probably would be best to keep the various celebrations in.

As for the music, I completely agree.  I much prefer the '97 song, and I don't know why people complain so much about it.  I know it doesn't match up with the one Ewok beating the stormtrooper helmets, but in this case it's clearly background music, not the music played by the Ewoks.  I'm happy keeping it.

Well, I already liked the idea, and I like it even more now that you've explained where you'd put it.  I'm going to work on another final video with some new footage.  Could you sort of work on the parts of the script where you might include Madine, includeing what lines you might add.  I'm thinking perhaps the shot where we get a close up of his face, we may be able to dub one of his bridge officer's shouting something like, "General, we're detecting a large energy buildup from the Death Star," or something like that.  His stoic face might fit well with a dramatic moment, and we wouldn't have to actually see who's talking.  But we'd still need to include him in one or two previous shots to establish that he's there.  Perhaps we could even keep his involvement in the lead up to the jump to hyperspace: while Ackbar is making his fleet orders, Madine could be giving some orders and comments of his own, potentially just to his own crew.

For those who don't like how this doesn't mesh with EU (Madine lives to fight another day) I personally feel that a fanedit should not be restricted by EU.  Inevitably the changes we make will conflict with something in the original storyline, and thus with the stories that follow and relied on the original movies.  This is especially true of PT edits.  I think we simply should disregard EU when making fanedits in most cases, at least when it's convenient.

FYI, I'm updating the first post a bit to include handy references for our editing.  In the future if you want to find something like the wishlist, movie mistakes, or ships size references, go to the first post.

^Sounds like some sort of devious plot to plant ideas in my head, like some sort of inception.  Actually, I like it, and there is a point where I'd like to insert Madine footage.  Including him may be one of the hardest things, wherever we try to put him because he has so few lines and his face is so non-expressive in the released deleted scenes.  While I'm happy with all the new material, I wish they had released more.  I'm sure some or all of it has decayed, but I really wish we had more to work with.

Also, glad you like the funeral on Tatooine idea.  I don't know how doable it is, but I think it'd be very fitting.  However, if we can't do it, I don't think it's the end of the world either.  I just think it makes for a more fit ending.

We can keep the celebrations.  I certainly don't 'hate' them.  I just think they feel a bit out of place with their modern special effects.  But perhaps with our nice version, it'll all blend together better anyway.  It makes sense and is fitting in any case to show the celebrations, and now we know for certain that the Empire has fallen.

Still on the fence about Lando, pondering the interest in having him actually die.  When I was younger I never thought much about his character.  Now that I'm older, I really like him.  He may have made a bad choice in ESB, but he's a very loyal friend.  It'd be nice to create the scene and see how it all plays out.  I don't imagine it'd be that hard to blow up the Falcon.  We'd have to probably include some voiceovers, probably having Wedge overhear him screaming in his cockpit or something.  But the most important thing to include would be having Han whisper, "Lando," while looking at the Death Star explosion.  I'm not sure there's a good point to include that.  But I know I'm interested in the idea, and maybe someone can demonstrate it.

First scene with Leia and Wicket could probably be easily removed, and it would probably add more suspense and mystery to the Ewoks at first.  I never understood why people wanted to remove that scene  (or at least shorten it, like Spence did), but now that thought occurs to me.  Is that why?

I don't really care about the title 'general'.  I just think it's funny that they did that.  I don't think it'd be worthwhile trying to remove it.

Ronster, glad you don't hate me :)  I see what you mean about pacing; a scene like that would set the pace for a faster movie.  However, no matter what, this movie is slower than ANH in many ways until the final battle.  This order allows for a slow start, gradually increasing in pace, until we hit a adrenaline-packed finale (we hope).  I don't think the order is necessarily bad.  Don't forget, ESB is pretty slow, and even in the beginning with the wampa and Luke trapped in the storm, it's still not a fast paced beginning.  That said, I think we're all still considering the stealing of the plans.  My problem with your plan is that no matter what, it will be pretty obvious that we've reused much of the ANH footage.  It'd have to be completely redone, I think, to make it believable.  Not saying that's impossible, since I'm asking Aalenfae to do much of the same in the final battle, but I'm saying it's a lot of work without necessarily the full payoff.

I kind of agree with Vladius that I like these parts you want removed.

Yes, the Death Star blowing up Endor would be suicidal in reality.  That is part of the reason why in the beginning I suggested moving the DSII's orbit further from the moon (though there are others as well).  Also, if you think about it, destroying the DSII would destroy Endor with all the fallout, but it's a movie, and I figure it's one of those details to be overlooked.

Yeah, it's not necessary to include the pyre on Tatooine.  It's basically just a thought that could include more emotion, especially considering that the music and lighting of that scene were already supposed to be reminiscent of Luke's sunset scene in ANH.  But it may not be worth the effort, and I'm not tied to the idea.

While I am the one who put the script together, I'm trying to be quite open to others' suggestions, since this is a collaborative effort.  But I also do feel passionate about some of the ideas I include.  I do see your point about the "flitting around," but I feel it worked fine in the original cut.  Again, I feel that these are various climactic points, and separating them destroys the pacing.  And as for Jerjerrod, it may make it too hectic, but I don't think so yet.  Before actually working on the script, I was trying to make a more complete Endor scene that included the Jerjerrod stuff, so I will try to finish that and see how it works.  I'll upload it ASAP.

Hopefully I've addressed everyone's thoughts, even if I didn't specify what you said.  What I'm thinking we'll have to do is collect a bunch of the debated ideas in a list and put them up for a vote, with the SFX guys holding some sort of veto powers over aspects of it since they have to be willing to do it.  I'm not trying to dictate the exact direction of the story, though I certainly hope to have a big say.  I'm really trying to remain open to everyone else's thoughts, and ultimately a vote (i.e. should we kill Lando, yes or no?) will settle some of these issues.  Everyone who has displayed any interest in working on this project will be included in the vote, and I will probably send PMs to everyone.  So after we get some more feedback on the script, I hope someone would be willing to gather all the unsettled debated ideas.

Well, I thought it might be fun, but you are all probably right.  I have completed the script and am currently leaving the idea in the comments, but I think you are all correct that maybe we should simply not include Anakin's ghost at all.  Still we should debate the point, but I myself am now leaning that way.  Thanks for the mockup Angel, even though you don't even like the idea.

So here is what you've all been waiting for.

http://www.4shared.com/office/-gr9agSq/ROTJ_script_edited_full.html

Sorry it took so long; it's more time consuming than you may think.  I've made sure every suggestion could work from an editing point of view, and except for heavy CG additions in the space battle, most of it would be fairly easy to pull off from an editing standpoint (I think, given that I can't do any of these neat tricks).  I did not include any new scenes other than reincorporated deleted footage, and personally I see no need for them.  Check out the ending in particular, as it really increases the tension drastically, given Jerjerrod's orders to destroy Endor and all that.  I will probably redo my rough edit to include more of the space stuff.

I also included several pictures of effects I would love to see included in this edit, all taken from the official wishlist.  I would of course love several of the small changes, even down to the nitty-gritty movie errors that all films make and that the likes of Adywan take the utmost care to correct, but I only included the pictures of the big changes I'd like to see visually.  This edit could completely work without them, but I think they would enhance the visuals of the film greatly.

Now what I think we should do is have everyone who's interested in contributing ideas make suggestions for alterations or additions.  The more I think about it, the less interested I am in filming whole new scenes or subplots (I know Ronster will hate me for this :)  But it's up to you guys.

Most importantly, I really want some serious comments from Angel and Aalenfae.  I know I call you guys out a lot, but really this project hinges largely on your efforts.  How much of what I've written is possible?  How much of it do you like and are willing to pull off?  Is there anything you'd like to add that I did not include?  Are there suggestions for more traditional special effects that we could go for as an alternative: for instance, should someone build a Death Star set or use an X-wing model or something like that?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions thus far, and I hope you guys like what you read.  I really think these changes can enhance the movie greatly.

I see your point, especially about the finality of it all.  I am still not certain I agree because the point is that this is Vader's redemption (although I don't see such redemption as realistic in any existing supernatural view, considering his many evil acts, as you pointed out).  It does seem to be kind of a silly deathbed repentance.  But as Vladius said, I also want a happy ending.  I guess your last comment actually has me thinking about it more thoroughly, especially the part about their final conversation being the final moment.  Great point.  I guess we really need to discuss this relatively minor detail.  Anyone else have any thoughts?

I should add that, apart from this very detail, the script is now completely done.  But I do want to add pictures from the wishlist of suggested changes as well.  I have to take care of the kids at this moment, but I will definitely get this up at some point today.

That's good to hear.  Do you think the ghost would be better to show immediately behind the pyre or off to the side?  I imagine it could be shown in a close up/fade-in (like the '04 version and later, only with Shaw's head).  When we see the distant shot just before panning up, it seems that we could fairly easily use Obi-Wan's body to make the shot complete without looking fake from the distance.  But again, you're doing the effects, so I don't really know how easy that is.

Let me add that I'm so glad we have you on our team.  You are an invaluable asset.  Thanks for sharing your talent.

That's fine, stick to your guns.  I feel pretty strongly about it as well.  I certainly would change no dialogue.  It would in fact be very simple in my mind:  Luke sets a blaze to the pyre, Vader's armor begins burning, close up of Luke's face, back to pyre which then pans left, we see Anakin's ghost appear and smile, back to Luke's close up where he looks emotional, then distant shot of Luke from behind with fire burning and Anakin simply standing there.  Then the camera pans up to the fireworks.  No dialogue, just emotion to communicate several possible feelings.  I personally don't see the PT's explanation of Force ghosts as disrupting to Anakin appearing.  I don't see a need to try to make it make any additional sense.  The official explanation works for those who care, but in this case I'm mostly interested in a story-telling device, not the endless efforts to keep continuity perfect on the part of the Star Wars EU.

I had an additional shot to go with this, but it would probably be even harder: it'd be interesting to move this pyre scene to Tatooine, Anakin's and Luke's home planet, with a double sunset in the background.  This may seem easier if we place the action in a valley of sorts so that when the camera pans up, that's when we see the sunset.  Most of the scene is pretty dark, so if we darken it further to hide any foliage, we only would have to change the pan up.  And even the lighting on this planet at the sunset could be darkened.  It seems interesting to me to show one of the suns nearly set and the other approaching.  Combined with the shot in the valley, it retains the twilight feel of the original shot and signals an ending of the story.

I want everyone interested in this project to really speak up on these thoughts, the Anakin ghost in particular.  I should have the script uploaded today I think, so you can respond after reading it, but apparently this issue is keeping folks divided, and I really like it so much.  Please speak up so I know if we should really keep it or not.

Rereading what you wrote, do you mean the dialogue when Vader dies aboard the Death Star?  I don't have any plans for that either, so you should be relieved.  

Well, I am so close on the script, but this is surprisingly time-consuming, and I really don't think I'll have it done by today.  I really am trying to get this done quickly, but I have to take care of my family as well, and Christmas is tomorrow.

Ronster, you've had a surprising change of heart.  I am trying to consider how to change things while bearing in mind the convenience of our special effects team.  I'm sure we can try a few things that are plenty different from the original.  We just can't go overboard.  I really appreciate your enthusiasm.

Dominic, when editing the OT, I don't always keep the PT in mind.  However, even from a PT perspective, it seems clear that learning continues once a Force user has died.  Qui-Gon learned to be a Force ghost after his death.  Given that he sought out Anakin, and given that Anakin is the Chosen One, I don't see a problem with him teaching Anakin that nifty trick and Anakin using it at his first opportunity.  I am religious and don't believe in deathbed repentance, but for the sake of the movie, I feel that it makes a happier ending, and I agree with Vladius that a happier ending to the whole saga is best.

But still, assuming we keep the ghosts, what do you guys think of moving Anakin's to the pyre scene?

I definitely understand that you are busy, and that is perfectly fair, Angel.  Glad you're interested and excited.  We look forward to any of your comments, and I'll get that script up soon with your pictures.  I promise :)

Wow, that does look good!  I hope you do decide to colorize the ROTJ b/w clips as well.  That really is terrific.

Vladius, I agree this is a great movie.  I've always liked it, and many of the fixes are more to address other people's concerns.  If most of us feel we don't need to change most of these issues raised by that guy, I'm totally okay with that.

Aalenfae, I think that'd be great.  They definitely need some redubbing so they don't seem so childish.  I don't mind the cute faces too much, if we can at least show that they have a truly dangerous side.

Ron, thanks for the anniversary well-wishes :)  I see your point about the love triangle.  Again, it's never something that bothered me either.  Your explanation makes sense.  Also, I don't much care for the celebrations throughout the galaxy either.  When you read my completed script, let me know what you think, though, because I'm not sure how easily we can remove it if we cut the Force ghosts at the end and finish with the funeral pyre.  However, my above comment would get around that and could leave out the celebrations, if the effects are possible

My big difficulty with your cut is separating the various stories.  I know it's busy, but I don't think it's effective story-telling to separate the various climactic points.  Story-wise, it makes more sense to me to keep them occurring simultaneously.  That's one of my problems with Spence's version.  I hope I don't offend you by saying that.  But I really think that when we're done, we'll have a final product, plus several individual items.  We can all piece together our own edits if we prefer it a different way.  And heck, I may be in the minority in my story telling preference here, so it may end up your way anyway :)

I just had a thought, but I definitely need Angel's opinion on it:

What if we didn't show Anakin as part of the Force ghost trio?  What if we just see Obi-Wan and Yoda, and Luke smiles.  Then we show the funeral pyer afterwards, and while Vader's armor burns, we see his Force ghost appear alone.  That does several things emotionally speaking: 1) Anakin is alone, thus we see he is redeemed, but it may not appear that he automatically is granted Nirvana after his many past deeds; 2) It appears that in a sense, with the burning of Vader's armor, Vader is truly killed and Anakin is released; 3) It appears sort of like a final sad goodbye and making peace between father and son.

I really am excited about this idea, but I wonder if it's possible to pull it off.  And maybe I'm the only one who'd like it anyway.  Thoughts?  Can it be done?

If someone were crazy enough to color at least one of the black and white female pilots, here is her only shot in the movie.

At least it's a reference point.  I doubt anyone would take on such a task, but at least there is a reference for her.

So I decided to take a look at this thread and its linked blog as to Why ROTJ sucks (a position I don't agree with, but still).  My purpose in doing so was to see if we could address common complaints, even if I personally hold no qualms with a particular issue.  Some things we might want to address.  Any thoughts?

My personal considerations:

Maybe we should allow Lando to die.  I actually really like his character and it would be emotional to kill off a major protagonist.  It'd be rather easy editing to kill him, but depending on how we conclude our edit, I'm not sure how we'd be able to impress the weight of his loss might play on our characters, especially Han.  We'd definitely want to show that he is saddened by the loss of his friend and his ship.

I don't think we could remove the Ewoks and keep a decent film.  But we can make them more of a threat.  Dubbing them with more ferocious sounds and removing all the hooping and hollering might help.  Removing a lot fo the humor surrounding them would too.  It might be too tedious, but it may be worthwhile to alter their faces a tad to make them less cute.  That sure would be a lot of tinkering for only a minor effect, though.  Still, we have some good options.

Luke's and Ben's conversation should have been a little harsher.  The script indeed shows a more dramatic argument, but the end result is surprisingly calm.  Perhaps we can keep the lines, but dub a couple of them to sound angrier.  "Why didn't you tell me?  You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father," and, "A certain point of view?" might be all it takes.

Harrison Ford's acting is admittedly weaker than before, but I don't think it's awful.  If necessary, I suppose he might be dubbed in a couple of lines as well, but I'm not sure if we'd need to.

Luke/Leia as siblings.  I don't know what to do about this.  We could remove the plot point, but then how do we explain how she ultimately chooses Han?  I don't hate it, but I can see the complaint.  I just don't know how we could successfully remove it without a glaring loose thread.

There are some bad mattes, but I imagine we'll fix it.

Everything else I don't see as a major problem.  I think this guy is being overly dramatic if he calls ROTJ the worst of all 6 films.  But at least we have some more possible points we can improve upon in the film.

I watched the SSWR videos.  Too bad the rest aren't available.  I'm not a fan of all his ideas, but some of the dubbed lines were interesting, particularly 3PO's lines.  I really liked how he made the Ewoks appear a little more ferocious, having collected stormtrooper helmets.

So I am nearly done, working on the Battle of Endor, which I already have a pretty good idea of what I want.  I might be able to have the script itself done by today.  I still want to add a few pictures from the wishlist.  But I imagine this should be all completed and posted for your reading either today or tomorrow.

For those who are interested, I had a nice anniversary.  But I seem to have caught my daughter's stomach bug late in the evening while watching Hugo in 3D at the theater.  Bummer!