darth_ender

Update on voting:

Since I'm for debating this thing till next Wed, I want everyone to know that if you submit a vote and later change your mind, just let me know and I will change how I've tallied your vote.  Change your mind as much as you want till next Wed.

Also, we've had several maybes, so if you want to vote maybe on something, that is okay.

Also, I've had to interpret some of your comments, given that they are not always specific yes, no, or maybe votes.  Depending on how committed you sounded, I put down what it sounded like you were saying for simplicity.

Also, the vote on ships present at the Battle of Endor has gotten varied responses, some saying yes to one vessel and no to another.  So I'm thinking I'm going to allow everyone to specify each vessel type they wish to include (i.e. Mon Cal cruisers, Victory SDs, B-wings, anything else you can think of).  If you simply say yes or no, I'm going to apply that to every class we come up with.

And also, please keep your votes personal.  I know I'm being stingy about this, but the reason is that when people see a trend, they tend to vote with that trend instead of going with their gut, even if that trend ends up not being real.  I want people to really vote with their hearts so we can explore the most popular options thoroughly before throwing them out.  If someone chooses to not vote the way they'd originally intended, it may be enough to sway the vote the other way.  Thanks for all who've participated so far, and I look forward to hearing from those who have not yet, particularly those involved in special effects, since everything hinges on their efforts.  

You know, when 3 came out, I enjoyed the previews and considered it, but never got around to it.  But the fourth movie in a series is almost never much good, so I definitely had lost interest in the M:I movies, especially after 2 (allow me to give some credit to 1, which is a decent action flick, but not a very good Mission:Impossible flick, if you catch my pickiness here).  After seeing 4, my wife and I were talking after seeing 2 and 3 (saw 1 recently, and want to watch 2 just so we don't leave it out).  Thanks for the recommendation.

^True, it is a silly name.  Who besides me grew up thinking his name was Bubba Fat?

Treated by my sister-in-law and her hubby, I went to see the new Mission: Impossible movie.  I'd seen M:I and M:I2, but I never saw the third and had little desire to see this one.  Hearing it was directed by Brad Bird of Pixar fame gave me higher hopes, but still I had concerns.  You see, I am a big fan of the original Mission:Impossible series from the 60s, and seeing the first two movies handle it the way they did was just not what I wanted: instead of a clever team that was always one step ahead of the bad guys, it was a clever, ever arrogant Tom Cruise performing super human feats with a tiny bit of help from his "team."  Oh, and there was one mask "surprise" after another after another.

Ghost Protocol really did it for me.  It showed real teamwork, it was frightening.  It had surprisingly good humor and even seemed to poke fun at the overused mask plot device: the good guys never use any.  The opening even was a modern take on how the original series used to open.  The whole movie was a far more true to the source material, while still being modern and showing an extremely athletic (but not overly unrealistic) Tom Cruise.  My only gripe was the slower final act, which would have a hard time following what preceded it.  It was a surprisingly good and exciting movie, and pleased the true M:I fan inside me. 

Yeah, that's my thought.  I also want to expand/alter my thoughts on the new Ep III:

The opening crawl would establish that there is a ring of special assassins working for Palpatine and swearing loyalty.  Anakin would be established as among this ring, and this would be his motivation to kill Mace and defend Palp.  We would never hear  him referred to as Sith in the movie.  He would still kill Dooku, depriving Palp of his apprentice, but we'd never know who took his place.  We'd also hear rumors (established in the crawl) of a deadly assassin called Vader, and Palpatine would even give hints about him to Anakin, but no one would know who he really was or if he existed.  Anakin's loyalties between the Jedi and assassin's ring would be strained, and finally Anakin would choose Palpy, from whom he believes he can learn the secret to immortality.  He knows that Palpatine is seeking a new apprentice from among the ranks of the assassins.  He fights Obi-Wan as an assassin in league with the Sith, not as Lord Vader.  He of course loses and we believe he is dead and we never see Anakin recovered by Palpatine.  In the end, we see an unknown individual in armor identified as Lord Vader, apparently Palpatine's new apprentice, but hopefully we come to believe they are separate individuals.

Just running thoughts late at night, so hopefully it makes sense.

I'm working on a scripted clip that would describe this very thing :)

So I had some thoughts about integrating Madine into the battle as captain of the Liberty that gets blown up:

First show him before the jump to hyperspace, saying one of the lines he really says in the deleted scene: "May the force be with us all."

Show him again when everyone finds out "it's a trap," maybe even having him be the one to radio in to Home One and say, "Admiral, we have enemy ships in sector 47."

Finally, show him listening as one of his bridge crew reports an energy buildup in the Death Star, show the superlaser firing upon the Mon Cal cruiser, briefly show this picture:

with some screaming of course, and the whole thing fading to white and explosions on the bridge, then show the cruiser blow up.

Then when Lando says, "That blast came from the Death Star." Change his next line, while the camera is focused on Nien Nunb, to a whispered, "General Madine..."

Maybe.  Maybe not.

Also, I'm getting all the lines from the Lost Rebel pilots (they're all mostly the same anyway).  I'm thinking of multiple ways to construct a brief scene where two A-wing female pilots, and a Sullustan and Mon Calamari pilot, begin an attack run on the main communication star destroyer bridge.  Nothing drastic, just an opportunity to expand upon the space battle and make it more exciting.

I'm also trying to come up with some other space battle action, using the novel mostly as a premise, to expand the length of the battle.

I was on the road today and had a lot of thoughts.  One had to do with restructuring the PT and an earlier discussion of Anakin being an assassin for Palpatine.  Here's the gist for the whole trilogy:

Ep I would actually be comprised mostly of AOTC (maybe with a little TPM for backstory).  It would of course be a nice edit eliminating most of the rubbish, including the majority of the romance.  The fact that Anakin and Padme get married would of course be central to the plot (they have kids after all), but the courtship and prevention of her death would not.

Ep. II (and this is where it would get extremely controversial, I imagine) would be comprised of the CGI Clone Wars show (once it's all completed).  A smart edit could include elements from different episodes to make a single, full length film that would serve as a bridge between the Eps I and III, and would show the Clone Wars we were all hoping for when we heard Lucas was finally going to make the PT.  This would hopefully show Anakin as a Jedi, but also on a very dark road, engaging in activities that were not sanctioned by the council but were assignments from Palpatine.

Ep. III would include mention in the opening crawl about a secret assassin of Palpatine's named Vader.  We would never learn who this was throughout the film, but we'd also see Anakin seemingly different from Vader, but still a personal hit man.  Ultimately we'd learn that Anakin was already a Sith before the movie began, well aware of Palpatine's role as his master, and only feigning innocence and trying to be a good guy at the same time.

Yeah, this is probably too crazy to pull off, but I thought it was an interesting notion.  Not sure it sounds as good now that I've typed it, but there ya go.

We'd love to see your edit.  Please put it up somewhere for all to enjoy, or at least describe it somewhere.  I know I'd be happy to see another take on the PT and how it turns out.

Jabba the Hutt frequently yells, "Feed me, Fortuna!  Feed me now!"  Then for one of the musical numbers, he slithers off his platform and sings, "I'm a Mean, Green Motha from Outer Space."

MrInsaneA said:

DominicCobb said:

ray_afraid said:

Haven't read through this entire thread, so I hope I'm not retreading to much water, but here's my idea for the opening of ROTJ that I posted in the ESB/ROTJ Wishlist thread. I'm no good at posting pics to show exactly what I'm talking about, but I think you can follow...

Opening text would have to be altered to mention that Luke has returned to Dagobah to continue his training.

After opening text, we pan down to Darth Vaders Super Stardestroyer near the uncompleted Death Star.

Cut to Darth Vader in his mediation chamber talking to Luke telepathically through the force urging him to join him on the darkside.

Cut to the deleted scene of Luke in the cave working on his new lightsaber. Edit the exterior of the cave to resemble Dagobah. Luke shakes the voice in his head and continues working and then ignites his saber.

Cut back to the Super Stardestroyer and we see Vader's shuttle leave for the Death Star (why was he leaving from a standard Stardestroyer originally?) continue to the original opening scene with Vader and Jerrod.

After that scene, cut to Yoda's hut on Dagobah for Yoda's death scene. After Luke says "So I am a Jedi.", leave out Yoda's line about having to face Vader again and just cut to him saying "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be." This way we get the idea that Luke has continued and now finished his training with Yoda. Yoda dies, the conversation with Obi-Wan is had, Luke takes off in the X-Wing and then cut to the Emperors arrival on the Death Star. That scene plays out like normal and then cut to the droids on Tattooine and continue from there. This all gives plenty of time between seeing Luke leave Dagobah and his arrival at Jabbas palace.

This would give the beginning of the film a more menacing tone with Vader still haunting Luke and more of a build up to the action at Jabba's palace. Agree? Disagree?

This would be my ideal opening.

Mine as well. This is a very good idea. Perfection, if I may venture to say so actually. Can't think of a better opening myself. 

I like this opening as well, and am divided on using this or the Bothans, or somehow tying the two together.  But one thought has occurred to me: we'd probably need to somehow show more Vader.  That would be pretty abrupt to simply show Executor, then cut to meditation chamber, then move on to Dagobah.  We'd need to see a different introduction, like the Executor far off but approaching the DSII, show Vader looking out the front windshield, then walking off, then next showing him in his meditation chamber.  As always, the issue is how do we get this footage without reusing old footage in an obvious manner?  Other than that, the idea plays smoothely, with the Executor much closer to the DSII later and Vader's shuttle approaching (and maybe removing Jerjerrod's line of it being an "unexpected pleasure," as it doesn't seem too unexpected in this sort of start to the film).

fishmanlee said:

darth_ender said:

Few realize that other classes were present other than the Executor and standard SDs.  For instance there was what is now termed the Tector-class, which has no hangar bay and instead was more heavily armed.

In the EU

Bothans in many ways are EU too.  Only the name is actually canonized.  Bothans may simply be a family name.  Or maybe a single human spy lost his pet gerbil-like Bothans as he retrieved the Death Star info.  But we're thinking about implementing EU when valuable, and the novelizations are the least EU of the EU in my mind.

And this photo is not EU.  That is the bottom of an actual SD model with no hangar bay:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ0coUtbue0&t=4m15s

fishmanlee said:

fishmanlee said:

Oh just something I thought of, there are a bunch of alternates/unused music in ROTJ, if you want I can identify them and create mockups of the music placed against the film if you are interested.

ender?

Sorry, hard to keep up with it all.  That would be fantastic, as I'm all for new music, and since we'll be adding scenes and possibly time to the overall movie, we'll need some good stuff.  Williams and the London Symphony Orchestra would be the best source when possible.

doubleofive said:

Forgot my demo of Lando's Sacrifice, for you to consider.

http://youtu.be/6Am4g36Ugm8

This video is terrible...you misspelled "hangar" like "hanger"!

I'm just kidding :)  Interesting way to show it, as I'd imagined him dying closer to the exit.  If he does die, this may be the best way to do it.  But for the record, I think I'm personally sold on keeping him alive.  Votes have shown a pretty even split thus far, so get out and campaign!

darth_ender said:

So far I really like this.  I have two thoughts for consideration at the present:

1) What will Boushh/Leia's involvement really be?  I like the idea of including her, but what will she do?  I'd suggest that she not be too knowledgeable, otherwise there'd be no need for the spies because she, a high leader in the Alliance, already has a great deal of info. She should be equally involved in the espionage itself, sneaking into whatever building or vault you have in mind.  Perhaps in fact she should be the only one to survive and escape with the information, with the four agents and whatever vessel they came from could be destroyed, thus justifying "Many Bothans died..."  Also, considering her desire to rescue Han, there should be some sort of ulterior motive.  She's already temporarily abandoning the Alliance for a short time to rescue the man she loves, putting personal loyalty above loyalty to her people (a very human trait).  If possible, I'd recommend that she get something out of it, such as some information about Jabba's court or something.

2) There is lots of enthusiasm for an opening with the Death Star.  I'm starting to really like the idea of the Bothan espionage, but we will need to consider scene placement in addition with the iconic DSII and star destroyer openings, assuming something of that nature wins the vote as well.

 

That said, you've written out an intelligent opening so far.  I am starting to really like the idea of a return to Coruscant (although I'm wondering if we should have it renamed Had Abbadon, as in the original ROTJ script, not renamed as if it were never Coruscant, but renamed like St. Petersburg became Stalingrad in the USSR--just a thought).  I like their cool tactics thus far.  I just plain like the idea of actually explaining what Bothans are to the many SW fans who don't know anything about EU (heck, there was no definition prior to the Thrawn trilogy).  I like the idea of having them wear helmets, reducing the need for masks, as I imagine with the sort of budget we will have, it'd be easier to make funny helmets the majority of the time while keeping it realistic enough as a movie.  I like seeing Boushh earlier, adding to the mystery.

If this idea passes, it will be a technical miracle for our little crew to achieve, beyond what I was truly expecting.  That said, I believe we can do it if we have enough participation and determination.

To add to this thought, in ch. 9 of the novel, it talks about an attack run on "one of the larger Destroyers--"the Empire's main communications ship."  I think if we could colorize the woman pilot shots and include them, plus the Sullustan and the Mon Cal pilots, we could create a discernible dialogue and show an attack run on a star destroyer.  This wouldn't need to be a Victory, as I'm hoping, but simply a digitally modified Imperial/Imperator class with some big antennae or something added to the bridge tower.

Few realize that other classes were present other than the Executor and standard SDs.  For instance there was what is now termed the Tector-class, which has no hangar bay and instead was more heavily armed.

So far I really like this.  I have two thoughts for consideration at the present:

1) What will Boushh/Leia's involvement really be?  I like the idea of including her, but what will she do?  I'd suggest that she not be too knowledgeable, otherwise there'd be no need for the spies because she, a high leader in the Alliance, already has a great deal of info. She should be equally involved in the espionage itself, sneaking into whatever building or vault you have in mind.  Perhaps in fact she should be the only one to survive and escape with the information, with the four agents and whatever vessel they came from could be destroyed, thus justifying "Many Bothans died..."  Also, considering her desire to rescue Han, there should be some sort of ulterior motive.  She's already temporarily abandoning the Alliance for a short time to rescue the man she loves, putting personal loyalty above loyalty to her people (a very human trait).  If possible, I'd recommend that she get something out of it, such as some information about Jabba's court or something.

2) There is lots of enthusiasm for an opening with the Death Star.  I'm starting to really like the idea of the Bothan espionage, but we will need to consider scene placement in addition with the iconic DSII and star destroyer openings, assuming something of that nature wins the vote as well.

That said, you've written out an intelligent opening so far.  I am starting to really like the idea of a return to Coruscant (although I'm wondering if we should have it renamed Had Abbadon, as in the original ROTJ script, not renamed as if it were never Coruscant, but renamed like St. Petersburg became Stalingrad in the USSR--just a thought).  I like their cool tactics thus far.  I just plain like the idea of actually explaining what Bothans are to the many SW fans who don't know anything about EU (heck, there was no definition prior to the Thrawn trilogy).  I like the idea of having them wear helmets, reducing the need for masks, as I imagine with the sort of budget we will have, it'd be easier to make funny helmets the majority of the time while keeping it realistic enough as a movie.  I like seeing Boushh earlier, adding to the mystery.

If this idea passes, it will be a technical miracle for our little crew to achieve, beyond what I was truly expecting.  That said, I believe we can do it if we have enough participation and determination.

Remember, this is the perfect opportunity to sway the votes of those who are thus far undecided.  I have an item I wish to push a bit: those darn Victory star destroyers.  Heck, even if we don't include those, it makes more sense for the Empire to use support craft.  In spite of the US's powerful naval aircraft carriers, they always travel with several support craft to perform different roles.  To simply have the Executor and several star destroyers overlooks the fact that other ships might do better at taking on smaller craft or harassing capital ships.  To me it is logical, and those who followed this idea first at at the ESB/ROTJ Wishlist thread know that I love the Victories.  Okay, I know they're older according to Star Wars lore, but they are still star destroyers, justifying Lando's, "I wonder what those star destroyers are waiting for."  And they could act as ideal support craft.  They were supposed to be capable of atmospheric travel, so if we really wanted to get crazy, they could even pursue some fighters into the atmosphere of Endor.  These are just thoughts, but I have a feeling I'm going to be outvoted on this one :)

UPDATE: I've numbered all the items up for vote to ease the voting process.  You may copy the whole post to know what your voting for, but make sure you either split your vote into two PMs or you only use the numbers when you actually send the PM, or else your vote will likely get cut off.

Another complication: I didn't realize that there was a character limit to PMs.  That means that three out of the four of you who voted had your PMs cut short.  Sorry about that.  It's late, but I will write you again and let you know tomorrow where it got cut off so you can include the rest of your votes.

So far we have four votes.  Things are moving well.  It has been requested that I correct one of the suggestions, that being the issue of Duel of the Fates.  My phrasing suggests the song occupy the entire battle, while the original idea was that its motif would be used during a portion of the battle.  I'll correct the voting post.

I sent the PM out to everyone, but at least one person's box was full, and since I sent it to everyone at once and it didn't tell me who rejected it, I don't know who isn't being notified.  I apologize for this, but please vote if you've ever contributed to this thread, even if you didn't get a PM.

IMPORTANT: WHEN YOU PM ME, YOU EITHER MUST SPLIT YOUR MESSAGE INTO TWO, OR YOU MAY JUST USE THE NUMBERS, OTHERWISE PART OF YOUR VOTE WILL GET CUT OFF BY THE CHARACTER LIMIT IN THE PMs.

These are the items that are coming up for a vote.  I went through the whole thread and tried to grab everything of significance and who first suggested the idea.  There’s a good chance I overlooked something, and I’m sure we’ll have more ideas and votes to come, but if we can at least get much of this done, we can then begin working on the actual movie, including special effects, new filming, and basic editing.  I’ve decided to include this list on the thread so everyone can see what is up for vote and avoid putting a large PM in your box.  If you’ve ever commented in the thread, you should see a PM with a link to this particular comment.  I can’t have everyone in the world vote who hasn’t contributed thus far, so if you want a voice in future votes, get active in the thread.

Please send your vote via PM in order to avoid affecting or being affected by the votes of others.  I will tally them all fairly and include names of who voted for what so you can make sure I accurately counted your votes. 

You will have one week from today to PM me your vote, or else it will not be counted.  You need not vote on every item (or anything!) if you don’t want to.  As of this posting, I encourage anyone who feels strongly about certain ideas to lobby hardcore for them to explain to others why they should support your ideas.

As a final note, I want you to vote with your heart.  In other words, I want you to vote for what you really like, even if it seems very difficult to pull off.  This vote is not permanently binding on the story of course, because we may find we can’t pull off some of these ideas, but if the majority wants to go with a certain direction, this vote should encourage us to greatly explore that route above all others before we give up on it.

So without further ado, please give a Y/N answer on the many following issues:

Length:

1. At least 120 minutes to avoid too short a film – DominicCobb

Music:

1. Across the Stars (end credits): Ronster; (Luke/Leia moments, elsewhere in film) – MrInsaneA
2. Death Star Theme (Vader’s approach to DSII) – darth_ender
3. Swing Swing Swing in place of Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks – fishmanlee
4. Duel of the Fates (space battle) – MrInsaneA
5. Stick with ’97 celebration music as opposed to Yub Nub - DominicCobb
6. Lapti Nek instead of Jedi Rocks (but with SE footage) - Ronster

Coruscant:

1. Opening scene stealing DSII info on surface – Vladius
2. Endor is a moon of Coruscant – Vladius
3. Blow up or threaten to blow up Coruscant – ben_danger
4. Move final Luke/Vader confrontation to Coruscant surface – ben_danger, Ronster

Opening/Early scenes:

1. Opening scene stealing DSII and trying to flee in ship, pursued by star destroyer, escape pod landing on planet surface – Ronster
2. Opening on Dagobah with minimal alterations to that scene, then on to Vader’s arrival at DSII, then on to Tatooine – darth_ender
3. Opening with Vader arriving at DSII, then on to Dagobah, then on to Tatooine. – MrInsaneA
4. Open with Executor near DSII, Vader mentally contacts Luke, Luke is in cave on Dagobah, back to DSII and Vader arrives, back to Dagobah – ray_afraid
5. Include Boushh (later we discover it’s Leia) as bounty hunter helping steal DSII info – timdiggerm
6. DSII should be no where near Coruscant – timdiggerm
7. Include a scene somewhere between Dagobah and Tatooine that shows the DSII info being delivered to the Alliance, either to Mon Mothma or just to a ship – Ronster
8. Include a scene as padding after Luke parts ways after rescuing Han where he goes back to Dagobah and goes to the Dark Side Cave – Ronster
9. Luke flies through Beggar’s Canyon as he arrives at Tatooine – Ronster
10. Luke’s conversation with Obi-Wan takes place in Obi-Wan’s hut – Ronster (original idea by Bingowings)

Tatooine/Rescuing Han:

1. Luke uses the Force to close the Rancor gate, or at least to hurl the skull – DominicCobbm, darth_ender
2. Remove the Sarlaac beak but keep the SE tentacles – Ronster
3. Cut Max Rebo’s band (still include music, but don’t show them) – darth_ender

Vader:

1. Show a stronger Vader, not such a pushover to the Emperor (unspecified how) – darth_ender
2. Obi-Wan communicates with Vader – Mithrandir
3. A quicker-to-violence with underlings, still subservient to Emperor Vader - Mithrandir

Boba Fett:

1. Cut out Fett completely – doubleofive, fishmanlee
2. Luke kills Fett, decapitates him – jonathan7, Ronster
3. Han deliberately hits Boba Fett’s jetpack – Vladius (originally mentioned by Spence)
4. More Boba Fett action, i.e. flamethrower, jetting out of Sarlaac’s mouth, etc. – Ronster
5. Fett delivers DS info to Rebellion (as treachery, or as an independent contractor) – Vladius
6. Boba Fett survives the destruction of Jabba’s barge - timdiggerm
7. Boba Fett allows Jabba’s death to take over his criminal empire - Mithrandir

Ewoks:

1. Make them tougher by cutting cute actions, redubbing with more aggressive sounds – darth_ender
2. Give them vampire-like fangs – Ronster
3. Ewoks actually use more language – aalenfae
4. Remove Wicket’s first encounter with Leia to add mystery – DominicCobb
5. Show Ewoks with stormtrooper helmets in village – darth_ender (from SSWR)

Relationships:

1. Cut indications of Han’s jealousy, as this was taken care of in ESB – Ronster
2. Cut Luke telling Leia they are siblings (but not Obi-Wan telling Luke) - Ronster

Battle of Endor:

1. Concentrate the various cuts, focusing first on action on DSII, then cover the surface battle, then cover the space battle, instead of jumping between the three – Ronster
2. Include many more ships, including more Mon Cal cruisers and Victory-class star destroyers – darth_ender
3. Include General Madine scenes, and have his Mon Cal cruiser be the first destroyed by the DSII - DominicCobb

Executor:

1. A-wing fires missile at bridge - DominicCobb
2. Y-wing uses bombs on Executor – Angel

Lando:

1. Let him die in DSII explosion – darth_ender, Ronster
2. Let him live as in original film – MrInsaneA
3. Make it appear as if he dies at first, then show later that he survives – aalenfae

Ending:

1. Anakin’s Force ghost appears at pyre scene instead of with Yoda and Obi-Wan – darth_ender
2. Put pyre scene at very end, after celebrations – darth_ender (Spence’s idea)
3. Remove Anakin’s ghost completely – Ronster, DominicCobb
4. Pyre scene takes place on Tatooine instead of Endor
5. Remove celebrations throughout galaxy, only showing them on Endor

I'm sorry, but we've got more ideas than you realize floating around.  I'm putting the vote up now, and we can hold more votes later.

ray_afraid said:

Haven't read through this entire thread, so I hope I'm not retreading to much water, but here's my idea for the opening of ROTJ that I posted in the ESB/ROTJ Wishlist thread. I'm no good at posting pics to show exactly what I'm talking about, but I think you can follow...

Opening text would have to be altered to mention that Luke has returned to Dagobah to continue his training.

After opening text, we pan down to Darth Vaders Super Stardestroyer near the uncompleted Death Star.

Cut to Darth Vader in his mediation chamber talking to Luke telepathically through the force urging him to join him on the darkside.

Cut to the deleted scene of Luke in the cave working on his new lightsaber. Edit the exterior of the cave to resemble Dagobah. Luke shakes the voice in his head and continues working and then ignites his saber.

Cut back to the Super Stardestroyer and we see Vader's shuttle leave for the Death Star (why was he leaving from a standard Stardestroyer originally?) continue to the original opening scene with Vader and Jerrod.

After that scene, cut to Yoda's hut on Dagobah for Yoda's death scene. After Luke says "So I am a Jedi.", leave out Yoda's line about having to face Vader again and just cut to him saying "When gone am I, the last of the Jedi will you be." This way we get the idea that Luke has continued and now finished his training with Yoda. Yoda dies, the conversation with Obi-Wan is had, Luke takes off in the X-Wing and then cut to the Emperors arrival on the Death Star. That scene plays out like normal and then cut to the droids on Tattooine and continue from there. This all gives plenty of time between seeing Luke leave Dagobah and his arrival at Jabbas palace.

This would give the beginning of the film a more menacing tone with Vader still haunting Luke and more of a build up to the action at Jabba's palace. Agree? Disagree?

I really like this as well.  This may be a fantastic compromise between my ideas and the hopes of the rest of the folks.  I'll include this opening in the upcoming vote, and I think this will actually be the one that gets my vote.

^^^We really seem to butt heads a lot, Ronster.  I certainly don't want to destroy ROTJ.  I also certainly don't want to make a completely different movie.  Have you seen Adywan's edit of ANH?  It's the exact same as the original...only...just plain better.  In my mind, we can make subtle alterations to ROTJ and still tell the same story, only just plain better.  Besides, if we are successful with a first, more moderate take, we now have several resources at our disposal to try a more radical take.

I just finished going through the entire thread and gathering every single suggestion of significance, including things like music suggestions.  I've reread everything you've written.  I'm starting to like your ideas of the plans making it to the Rebellion better, even though I must say with complete honesty that I don't like your concept of their execution.  If the team agrees, we can work on an opening scene stealing the plans, and another later where they are delivered to the Rebellion.  The best part of including these scenes would be that they leave enough ambiguity as to wonder what's going on, but it all gets explained when Mon Mothma gives the battle briefing.  We don't have to see these characters again, and we don't have to film too much.  I still worry about how to take care of it in a technical manner, but I'm starting to believe in it more.  I'm going to try to put it up for a vote today or tomorrow.  Wait till then, and we can begin working on the "how" if the majority like the idea.

Ronster, I want you to remember how this project started.  Several people volunteered their skills at a certain aspect.  I had ideas for the story, and after giving others the opportunity, I finally volunteered to actually mash out a basic storyline.  Enter Ronster, who comes along with a great deal of passion and provides so many suggestions and in some cases becomes somewhat demanding that we take his ideas.  You see, I have offered ideas and a script.  But I've given up on my own hopes when clearly not everyone agreed, and this script is by no means a final draft.  After we debate several points, we'll redo the script somewhat.  But it's a team effort, and I am currently (and only temporarily, because I can't keep up with work and school while contributing so much) spearheading this part of the effort.  You seem to think that because you feel strongly about something but because no one else does (or because I don't), we're blowing you off.

Let's do the vote, see what carries, see what fails, rewrite the script, and go from there.  In the end, you may be able to make an ROTJ exactly the way you like it, but we probably will all have to wait for that until after we've all created an ROTJ that is improved, created by compromise, and that we can later tinker with on our own or as a part 2 to this project.

I hope this doesn't offend.  I just want to keep your ideas and hopefully unwind you a bit.

PS I'm working on my redone ending, so hang on for a couple more days there.  Even all this typing takes time for an employed husband and father of 3.

fishmanlee said:

All my knowledge comes from listening, and observing (my title comes from me replacing scenes music), I can not write nor read music, so I am no help to you here, however I have two friends I can ask about it if you want (one of them was a member here for awhile) here are their work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkC_anDP5T0&feature=plcp&context=C3712a64UDOEgsToPDskKo_T_3tV-W0KybFujGzPem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO1NY-yGjR8&feature=plcp&context=C3cb5fe5UDOEgsToPDskJPcnEBvprNJlry12DbT95B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWh_XuOLpCg&feature=plcp&context=C300eac4UDOEgsToPDskIipgmd9evAuUCWjDAuIe3B

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m8NgBx1TGk&feature=plcp&context=C318e71aUDOEgsToPDskIyCX71_qkjfUDhMttrJ5KF

Going through all the old posts trying to catalogue ideas for serious discussion to put up for vote.  Man, this is more time consuming than I realized.  We've come up with a lot of ideas!  But I realized I hadn't looked at these youtube videos yet, and we definitely need some folks with composition skills.  I PMed The Cutter who showed a great deal of promise (good news, he responded a week later and he does live).  He said he would take a look at our project and consider things, but also stated he is busy.  I doubt we'll nab him, and if we do, it will probably be much later.  If you can talk to your friends, that could be extremely valuable.  Sorry I never responded earlier.

EDIT: I should also mention that I love Angel's mattes, but the ones I felt most strongly about are included in the script.  I hope that was clear.  That means the pictures in the script are also up for dispute if anyone wishes.