I don't think they've bugged out. I think they are simply busy. And that's the thing about this edit: even if people drop out, we can still make progress, and new folks will come forth.
Nice avatar, BTW.
Ronster said:
darth_ender said:
I had the same thought, as it does match the Lost Rebels lines. However, I don't like the idea of power reactors vulnerable through hangar bays; hangars are already exposed, so it's an obvious vulnerability, and who would be stupid enough to place the reactors right where a ships have easy access? Besides, Anakin blew up the Droid Ship that way, so I'd hope to show it go in some other manner. Frankly, I'd be okay if they took out the bridge tower. I think it'd be cool to see a bunch of antennae and/or dishes blowing up.
you know the dome on the underside of the belly of a star destroyer well how about 4 of them positioned like this
0
0 0
0
But in closer proximity with a 5th dome or dish that sits ontop of these 4 as a base but passes through the center on the 4 base domes and a little bigger.
actually a ball would probably work better.
How about that for design?
yeah the hanger idea is no good.....
I don't really understand what you're getting at. Are these raised bumps on the destroyer to signify antennae or something like that? If so, do you think you could draw and scan your idea?
Johannus said:
darth_ender said:
An interesting suggestion Johannus. I'd love to see more Dagobah in such an edit, but I'm not sure how easy that'd be to do. Is there any chance you could do some sort of rough edit to demonstrate how possible it is? And welcome to our little club :)
Funnily enough I did start throwing together a very rough clip to demonstrate this so I will try to finish it off (though cannot guarentee it will be soon) but the biggest problem I found wasn't the footage as with enough editing I think existing shots of Yoda could be passed off as new shots, but the sound clips available.
I also tried to build on the idea in Spence's edit that Luke doesn't know about how badly their plan to get Han is going and he senses it through the force and flies off to help. To do this I wanted to remove the conversation with Ben just after Yoda dies and then when Luke is standing looking out at Ben from next to his X Wing put a voiceover of Yoda telling him 'Hurry, your friends, in great danger' so that Luke's look of surprise is hearing these words instead of seeing Ben. Then he flies off to help. However, I was really struggling to piece together words just for this short line but to be honest, if it could be done (perhaps with dubbing) then I think it would add a lot to showing Yoda as the master compared to Ben, just as I think the Dagobah scenes suggested would add something a little more iconic to RotJ, which lets face it doesn't add much new stuff to the OT.
We'll look forward to seeing it. It does seem difficult to pull off, I'll be honest, but it sounds interesting if you can find success. I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of reusing footage too obviously, so unless you can carefully disguise it, I have my worries. But I will reserve judgment till I see it :)
So today is the last day to vote, and I was hoping for a little more input. Let me call out on the carpet those who have not yet voted:
Aalenfae
Angel
Neglify
ben_danger
Mithrandir
doubleofive
jonathan7
TV's Frink
none
Evin Jade
Jaitea (though he never participated, he agreed to do so before I called the vote)
ray_afraid
And TheoOdo, your vote was cut off, and I'd like to receive the rest of it. Check your PMs.
Votes already received from:
timdiggerm
MrInsaneA
DominicCobb
Ronster
fishmanlee
Vladius
emanswfan
darth_ender
TheoOdo (cut off)
Please submit your vote by today (which really means before I check my PMs tomorrow) or else I will not count it. I really do hope to hear from our special effects team because we can't do anything without them. Please vote Angel and Aalenfae.
I watched Megamind the other night. I was very pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed it. It begs comparison to another supervillain turned good in the film Despicable Me, which I also liked. I have a hard time deciding which I prefer. They are both very charming and humorous stories.
An interesting suggestion Johannus. I'd love to see more Dagobah in such an edit, but I'm not sure how easy that'd be to do. Is there any chance you could do some sort of rough edit to demonstrate how possible it is? And welcome to our little club :)
This edit certainly sounds ambitious, but I feel like people are largely ragging on this guy instead of giving him encouragement. I think nightstalkerpoet made a fair suggestion that he include videos, and then we can proceed to provide constructive criticism. We haven't even seen how it works out yet. Give the guy a break.
And @OP, I suggest you simply release your edit ASAP. It's illegal to provide you with the BDs, YouTube would block them anyway, and such requests could get you banned. You should buy them yourselves or settle for a lower quality edit (which, if what you say is true, could still be quite great).
Ronster said:
darth_ender said:
Finally, an even lower quality version of the Battle of Endor.
http://www.4shared.com/video/q9iTMV5P/New_Battle_of_Endor_edit_lo_qu.html
I hope you guys like it. I tried to include segments that could easily be dubbed to suit our story-telling purposes. Like I said, no attack on the communications vessel yet. Please let me know your thoughts, one and all. There are enough differences to warrant another watch if you have already seen my previous version.
Well Done Darth_Ender, I think there are some good ideas in here, but they are mostly carried over from the previous edit....
That was the point. Only this time I was focusing on the other aspects, while before I had only worked on the surface battle.
Here is my feedback and I hope you take it constructivly.
Of course, ya big jerk ;)
1. Madine does not need to give the order to go to lightspeed or say the force be with us before the battle it would have been better used on the second Mon Calamari cruiser being destroyed as the first was a surprise but I really lol at Aw Shucks!
I like the idea of saying, "May the Force be with us," just before he gets blown up, but he has to have some indication that his death is inevitable for that to be believable, and the superlaser shot is so surprising to everyone that I just couldn't think of a way to do that. As for him giving the order, he is simply ordering his ship. It may not be the solution, but here is my logic: we want Madine to die; we have to establish he's commanding one of the Mon Cal cruisers; we have to indicate that his ship is the first (or second) being destroyed; we need to show he is an active participant in the battle; the audience needs to care about him. My thought on solving this, especially given the very little footage in the deleted scenes and the fact that whatever we dub, it has to be believable with the mouth movements we see, are showing him at least twice prior to being destroyed, once as the battle is beginning and once during the battle. Since his lines involve him commanding the entire fleet in place of Ackbar, I thought it might be easiest to show him commanding his own ship in a like manner. Maybe I don't have the right solution, but I believe the general formula is close, and we just need to perfect the specifics.
2.Jejerrod really breaks up the pace when they are going for the reactor on attack run and I think his inclusion kills exitement and he's boring anyway. The placement seems to be kind of correct though which is why he got cut no doubt
I of course disagree, except perhaps the part where the officer announces "Rebel fighters have entered the superstructure." I don't really mind that going. But may I remind you that the Battle of Yavin in ANH was split as well, though not as extensively, and we see similar scenes with Tarkin and his officers on board the Death Star. I think with the right music (music definitely adds a lot, and I imagine a lot of these lines accompanied by tense music) and maybe a couple of slight cuts, these shots would dramatically add to the tension. That's my thought at least. Remember, we're watching lower quality deleted scenes with no music or sound effects. Try to imagine everything blending better.
3.The time between them starting there assault on the DSII and actually making the attack run is too long apart in time.
Perhaps you are right. It was a concern of mine as well. However, I imagine they encountered more opposition as they tried to enter than shown in the original. If this sequence is used, perhaps an additional few shots of opposition while trying to gain entrance to the Death Star would explain this well.
4. Your best idea is that the hot-wire opens the door which is fantastic IMO
Thanks :)
5. Too Much silly Ewoks / Traps
I know this is true to some extent. Dubbing the Ewoks to sound more ferocious would help somewhat. But I wonder what you mean by traps. While swinging from the side and knocking down the troops is pretty dumb, we have to see the tide of the battle turning. The troops are in disarray at the loss of their generator. And we're supposed to see the Ewoks' guerilla tactics working. I don't know how you would suggest remedying this.
6.It's hard to Visualise the space battle stills.....I will give it another look... But I liked the inclusion of the gunners on the falcon and thought the placement was well thought out although I would have tried to include some ANH footage also of taking down some ties too.
Thanks. And yeah, it's hard to define with stills, but I'm not able to make an actual video.
7.You know my opinion on constantly breaking away to another scene before you have reached any kind of conclusion of any particular plot and the original muddled feel of ROTJ.... I unfortunatly feel you have emphasised this more and caused more confusion with the already jumbled nature of the origoinal. But I understand you like the climaxes to all be happening simultaneously but this was not working well
I highly disagree, but it's personal taste.
8. Alot of Audio Dubbing... Probably too much to get away with apart from Fish Face B-wing Pilots there ok
Actually, I carefully chose my lines to try to largely match with mouth movements (for instance, Madine's lines were actually very close to what would be dubbed anyway) or when faces are not shown. It might be hard to pull off, and the lines may need some alteration, but I think it can be done. Also, I think it may be possible to digitally alter their mouth movements slightly to better fit whatever lines we choose.
Thanks for the constructive criticism. I know you and I see certain elements very differently, but we can work it out, with help from the vote of course. And besides, it's only a rough edit to give a general idea.
Finally, an even lower quality version of the Battle of Endor.
http://www.4shared.com/video/q9iTMV5P/New_Battle_of_Endor_edit_lo_qu.html
I hope you guys like it. I tried to include segments that could easily be dubbed to suit our story-telling purposes. Like I said, no attack on the communications vessel yet. Please let me know your thoughts, one and all. There are enough differences to warrant another watch if you have already seen my previous version.
In the novel there were actually three assailants, including a rodent-like creature. I wonder if they had considered using three instead of two in the film and ultimately cut out the guy whose arm it is.
I had the same thought, as it does match the Lost Rebels lines. However, I don't like the idea of power reactors vulnerable through hangar bays; hangars are already exposed, so it's an obvious vulnerability, and who would be stupid enough to place the reactors right where a ships have easy access? Besides, Anakin blew up the Droid Ship that way, so I'd hope to show it go in some other manner. Frankly, I'd be okay if they took out the bridge tower. I think it'd be cool to see a bunch of antennae and/or dishes blowing up.
So I've been doing a little research on star destroyers as I hope we do successfully implement another design or two into our battle. Here's some interesting info on the communications ship, which seems to be featured in the battle from a distance at least:
http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#commship
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_communications_ship
The communications ship was the vessel jamming the Rebels. How else would they know the shield was down without having disabled the jamming in some way? It makes sense to me. I didn't include any sort of attack on the communications vessel in this rough edit because I wasn't sure I liked how I did my little script and was trying to hurry and get everything done. However, I do think this would be a valuable inclusion to the battle.
Also, thinking about Coruscant with all this discussion, I'm starting to wonder if there is some way to include it. Problem is it doesn't seem logical for the Death Star to be anywhere nearby, and I don't think it would be realistic or suspenseful enough to set Coruscant as the center stage. I'm wondering if there is some other way to give it more screen time or inclusion...
You're on to my secret: I'm not super computer savvy. Actually, I used Winrar to cut it into the six pieces. But I think you're right, I'm just going to resave it at a much lower quality.
Unfortunately no. I've really spent more time trying to get this silly thing uploaded than I expected. It's currently in six 100 mg pieces but here at the library it is so slow to upload. I'm about to head home and will upload it on my own Internet which will hopefully be faster. It will then have to be combined into one video. I didn't think this would be so much trouble, and I've had computer troubles on top. I really will get this up today if I have to kill myself. In retrospect, that sounds a bit extreme, but I really will get this up today.
Darth_ender's collection of ideas/contributions:
Battle of Endor edit (changes focus on land battle)
More recent Battle of Endor edit (changes the space battle too)
Lousy attempt at character impersonations for potential new lines
Most recently updated script/editing guide (as of 2/4/12)
Brief, decent quality Star Tours footage (could be used at Battle of Endor)
Star Tours nearly complete footage (interlaced, very yellow, highest quality)
Same as above, deinterlaced, attempted color correction
Star Wars Interactive Video Board Game movie (rared into 19 parts)
^I am really okay with this. And you are correct that Star Wars is really an amalgamation of many overused plot devices. It does it so well, though, and as I said before, I personally have no problem with the Death Star remaining the exact way it is. Just throwing out an idea for consideration.
EDIT: ^That's funny, Ron.
So I was looking around, and to ease the job of designing Victory Star Destroyers, should we end up using them, this website sell the 3d model:
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_details.aspx?id_product=77771
It also sells models for a couple of other ships as well, so that could save some time. We could all help pay for it if we go that route. It would of course need weapons and texture, but it might be worth the $15.
Updated the first post.
Very powerful music clip, fishmanlee. I especially like the final bit as Vader is burning. These things are actually getting difficult for me to comment on because there are aspects I like about the original and aspects I prefer from these unused cues. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm going to have a hard time choosing when these clips are up for inclusion.
Only 9 votes so far. Hoping for more tonight and tomorrow. I really won't have much time to be the hub here pretty soon.
Yes, collaborative editing has its weaknesses, as does the democratic principle in general. But it has its strengths which I'm hoping we can harness here. Ronster, you got a new computer, and I hope you also buy some editing software because I believe with the building blocks we create here you can also make an edit closer to what you're hoping for. I'm not trying to suggest you leave here, but if you do start your own project, you can even start your own thread where your followers can help you develop your own ideas, but ultimately it will be your own edit, telling the exact story you want to portray.
I'm sorry I missed some of those ideas, and I'm sure I missed more from everyone. This is not the only vote, nor is it a legal contract. It's merely a guide, so don't worry, we can bring up your ideas again. Probably next time, I (since no one else is offering to do what I'm doing) will probably ask for you all to submit any suggestions you want up for consideration, and I will probably make an spreadsheet that you can submit and will send it to email addresses so I can ease the process of tallying everyone's votes.
I'm thinking we can ease the navigation of this thread by doing the following:
Everyone who has a contribution should have a single post where they link to all other posts or outside links. For instance, fishmanlee, you should have a single post that you will always update when you add a Williams cue timed with the film. I will then include your post in the original post where we can find all your cues easily. I can do the same with my rough edits, Ronster's rough edits, scripts and segments, etc. But everyone needs to have a single post that collects every idea of this nature and keep it updated while I link it to the first post. Make sense?
Looking forward to the next music clip. I'll have to listen to all these again and contrast them with the original shots. Thanks for the good work, fishmanlee.
So I've been thinking about the lack of originality to a second Death Star, and while I repeat that I don't have a problem with it, perhaps this will serve as something of compromise between those who think it is cliched and those who want to keep the same sort of threat. It raises the stakes, too, but I worry that in a sense, it really is simply succumbing to the cliche of the same threat, only more. But here is my thought anyway for your consideration:
Keep the Death Star in name and in many other respects, but make it more like the Centerpoint Station/Starbuster, capable of destroying stars from a great distance (and thus the surrounding planets). I liked this idea from the Corellian Trilogy better than the Sun Crusher of the Jedi Academy Trilogy because of the nature of the weapon (a powerful tractor beam instead of dinky torpedoes) and the station (as opposed to an invincible little starship) both seemed better suited for such destructive capabilities. The new DSII could still be a large space station shaped the same or similarly as it presently is in ROTJ, only it could be equipped with far more destructive technology, and therefore its destruction is even more urgent.
It's just a thought at the present, and I'm not even sure I like it, but what do you guys think?
So I actually really like TheoOdo's idea, and I think he's laid it out quite well. The thing is I personally don't have any problem with the Death Star and don't think the Imperial Center is as likely a threat. I find it hard to believe an empire with resources as vast as the Galactic Empire's would spread its forces so thin as to leave its capital guarded by an energy shield projected from a separate celestial body (considering also that planetary shields are established as capable of being projected from their own planet's surface, as on Hoth).
But I repeat, it's not unfathomable, as stories often hold internal logic that might not match with our concept of what is logical. A story like this could certainly work and be entertaining. I personally just like the original better.
Ronster, while you are right that a person should suggest how to accomplish their edits, I think he has done a fine job defending his idea. Personally, I think it would be difficult but possible, and I think in many ways easier than trying to insert a great deal of new material in existing scenes, as the biggest visual changes would be matting. I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems to me that Boba Fett coming out of Sarlaac would be harder, and flipping star destroyers would be too obvious. My point is not to criticize anyone, but show that we should not be too hard on an edit we don't agree with.
Perhaps TheoOdo could alter the script to his liking as I have done with commentary included to explain how changes could be made. This could at least show more clearly how possible it is. As I've said before, this project does not have to be the end all of ROTJ edits, but rather a stepping stone to whatever sort of edit everyone wants to make. Perhaps we will all learn new skills here to better make an edit of the sort we like by the time we get done with this. Perhaps new collaborative projects will spring up.
Ronster, I have not completely cut the whole film, just the Battle of Endor. I still wouldn't even call it complete based on our discussions and the way voting can go, but it illustrates some of the ideas we've mentioned (using stills in a couple of points, for instance), and trying to include Madine. We'll see how it turns out for you guys. I'm splitting it into three rars because most free file sharing accounts don't let you share anything bigger than 200 mb and this is over 500. But it will be up soon.
It's okay that you changed your vote and that you did it publicly. This doesn't force us to do anything, but merely gives us a stronger sense of "the will of the people," so to speak, so we know the best way to advance the story to the majority's liking. I'll note the change.
I'm pondering your ideas. My first thought regards the need for padding: I personally feel that it is acceptable to see Luke on Tatooine. We simply would assume that he traveled back to Tatooine, and I don't think we'd need to see him travel there. I'd like to first see him at the celebration, and then later on Tatooine. No need for explanation, just that he soon took his dad's body there to be burned. I do like your visualization of the cliff and sunsets, though.
As for more violent Vader, cracking the glass could be interesting. I of course always assumed it was simply an open platform, but that doesn't preclude the glass from being there and cracking. I think it'd be interesting to see Vader lose his cool a bit, since he always does everything so coldly, except when he first talks to Palpatine after donning his armor and breaks the medical unit in ROTS.
I think the Falcon would be easy to destroy, and my big concern is the lack of emotion from the lead characters after his death. It'd be like no one even mourned his loss. And MrInsaneA is telling us that if he dies, our world will spin out of control too, so I'm not sure I want that to happen :) How would you show the character's, particularly Han's, sense of loss? That would be key, otherwise the emotion of his sacrifice simply won't be very emotional.
How dare you question the Lord of Spelling!
I'd prefer this sort of thing. It makes the PT look more like the OT, and that's the Star Wars universe I fell in love with.
Well, I came back and there was some issue with Movie Maker. I'll try again, but that means I will not get this up till tomorrow. I promise, no later than tomorrow and you'll have at your fingertips the most amazing crappy, low quality edit of the Battle of Endor evahhhhh!!!
I think you added an extra letter that changes the meaning of his name entirely.
As for the isolated scores, I like 'em, the father/son one especially. I prefer it to the original.
Windows Movie Maker is now converting my edit into a single video. I have some errands to run, so it should be done when I get back and I'll upload it then.