darth_ender

The results:

Length:

1.      At least 120 minutes to avoid too short a film – Y – 10; N - 0; M - 0

Music:

1.      Across the Stars – Y – 4; N – 6; M - 1

2.      Death Star Theme (Vader’s approach to DSII) – Y – 7; N - 0; M - 2

3.      Swing Swing Swing in place of Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks – Y – 4; N – 5; M - 1

4.      Duel of the Fates (space battle) – Y – 3; N – 4; M - 3

5.      Stick with ’97 celebration music as opposed to Yub Nub [suggestions for alternate songs brought up] – Y – 9; N – 2 [neither preferred Yub Nub but suggested a new song; M - 0

6.      Lapti Nek instead of Jedi Rocks (but with SE footage) – Y – 6; N – 3; M - 1

Coruscant:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII info on surface – Y – timdiggerm3; N – 4; M - 3

 2.      Endor is a moon of Coruscant – Y – 2; N - 7; M - 2

 3.      Blow up or threaten to blow up Coruscant – Y – 3; N – 8; M - 0

4.      Move final Luke/Vader confrontation to Coruscant surface – Y – 3; N – 8; M - 0

Opening/Early scenes:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII and trying to flee in ship, pursued by star destroyer, escape pod landing on planet surface – Y – 4; N – 5; M - 1

2.      Opening on Dagobah with minimal alterations to that scene, then on to Vader’s arrival at DSII, then on to Tatooine – Y – 3; N – 7; M -0

3.      Opening with Vader arriving at DSII, then on to Dagobah, then on to Tatooine. – Y - 5; N – 3; M - 2

 4.      Open with Executor near DSII, Vader mentally contacts Luke, Luke is in cave on Dagobah, back to DSII and Vader arrives, back to Dagobah – Y – 6; N – 5; M - 0

5.      Include Boushh (later we discover it’s Leia) as bounty hunter helping steal DSII info – Y – 4; N – 6; M - 1

 6.      DSII should be no where near Coruscant – Y – 6; N – 1; M - 1

 7.      Include a scene somewhere between Dagobah and Tatooine that shows the DSII info being delivered to the Alliance, either to Mon Mothma or just to a ship – Y – 5; N - 3; M - 3

 8.      Include a scene as padding after Luke parts ways after rescuing Han where he goes back to Dagobah and goes to the Dark Side Cave – Y – 3; N – 8; M - 0

9.      Luke flies through Beggar’s Canyon as he arrives at Tatooine – Y – 6; N – 3; M - 1

 10.  Luke’s conversation with Obi-Wan takes place in Obi-Wan’s hut – Y - 4; N – 7; M – 1

Tatooine/Rescuing Han:

1.      Luke uses the Force to close the Rancor gate, or at least to hurl the skull – Y – 11; N - 0; M - 0

2.      Remove the Sarlaac beak but keep the SE tentacles – Y – 8; N – 2; M - 1

3.      Cut Max Rebo’s band (still include music, but don’t show them) – Y – 6; N – 4; M – 1

Vader:

1.      Show a stronger Vader, not such a pushover to the Emperor (unspecified how) – Y – 8; N – 3; M - 0

2.      Obi-Wan communicates with Vader – Y - 2; N – 9; M - 0

3.      A quicker-to-violence with underlings, still subservient to Emperor Vader – Y – 8; N – 2; M - 1

Boba Fett:

1.      Cut out Fett completely – Y – 4; N – 6; M - 1

 2.      Luke kills Fett, decapitates him – Y – 5; N - 5; M - 1

 3.      Han deliberately hits Boba Fett’s jetpack – Y – 6; N – Ronster3; M - 1

 4.      More Boba Fett action, i.e. flamethrower, jetting out of Sarlaac’s mouth, etc. – Y – 5; N – 5; M - 1

 5.      Fett delivers DS info to Rebellion (as treachery, or as an independent contractor) – Y - 2; N – 8; M - 1

 6.      Boba Fett survives the destruction of Jabba’s barge – Y – 4; N – 4; M - 3

 7.      Boba Fett allows Jabba’s death to take over his criminal empire – Y – 3; N – 8; M - 0

Ewoks:

1.      Make them tougher by cutting cute actions, redubbing with more aggressive sounds – Y – 10; N - 0; – M - 1

2.      Give them vampire-like fangs – Y – 2; N – 8; M - 1

3.      Ewoks actually use more language – Y – 5; N – 4; M - 2

 4.      Remove Wicket’s first encounter with Leia to add mystery – Y – 5; N – 3; M - 3

 5.      Show Ewoks with stormtrooper helmets in village – Y – 11; N - 0; M - 0

Relationships:

1.      Cut indications of Han’s jealousy, as this was taken care of in ESB – Y – 3; N – 6; M - 2

 2.      Cut Luke telling Leia they are siblings (but not Obi-Wan telling Luke) – Y - 1; N – 9; M - 1

Battle of Endor:

1.      Concentrate the various cuts, focusing first on action on DSII, then cover the surface battle, then cover the space battle, instead of jumping between the three – Y - 2; N – 5; M - 2

 2.      Include many more ships, including more Mon Cal cruisers and Victory-class star destroyers – Y Mon Cal – 7; Y B-wings – 2; Y Victories – 4; N Mon Cal - 0; N Victories – 3; M to all – 1; Y – other - 2

 3.      Include General Madine scenes, and have his Mon Cal cruiser be the first destroyed by the DSII – Y – 7; N - 0; M - 1

Executor:

1.      A-wing fires missile at bridge – Y – 3; N – 6; M - 1

 2.      Y-wing uses bombs on Executor – Y 9; N - 0; M - 1

Lando:

1.      Let him die in DSII explosion – Y – 3; N – 8; M - 0

2.      Let him live as in original film – Y – 7; N – 2; M - 2

 3.      Make it appear as if he dies at first, then show later that he survives – Y – 6; N – 4; M - 0

Ending:

1.      Anakin’s Force ghost appears at pyre scene instead of with Yoda and Obi-Wan - Y – 3; N – 6; M - 1

 2.      Put pyre scene at very end, after celebrations – Y – 6; N – 3; M – 1

 3.      Remove Anakin’s ghost completely – Y – 2; N – 7; M - 1

 4.      Pyre scene takes place on Tatooine instead of Endor – Y – 2; N – 7; M - 1

 5.      Remove celebrations throughout galaxy, only showing them on Endor – Y – 1; N – 8; M - 0

Counting the "maybes" is actually a bit of a challenge.  If I count it 1/2 a yes vote and 1/2 a no vote, it's meaningless and has no effect on the outcome.  If I simply count it as 1/2 a yes vote, it might skew things in a direction that doesn't really represent what we want.  So here's what I'm thinking.  I will only count the yes and no votes in the final tally.  The maybe votes will then count as 1/2, and if they change an overall no vote to a yes, that topic will be automatically be reconsidered in the next round of votes, and we should continue to actively debate it.  I hope that is fair to everyone.

Also note that I had to interpret many of your submissions.  For instance, if someone said, "I think I like that, but I'm not sure," I counted it as a maybe.  If someone said, "That's a nice idea," I counted it as a yes.  If you feel I misplaced your vote, either because I misinterpreted your statements or because I just made a human error, simply let me know and we can correct it.

So without further ado, the raw results.  I will count them up momentarily.

Length:

1.      At least 120 minutes to avoid too short a film – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N - ; M -

Music:

1.      Across the Stars – Y – MrInsaneA, Ronster, emanswfan, darth_ender; N – DominicCobb, timdiggerm, Vladius, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, Angel; M - aalenfae

2.      Death Star Theme (Vader’s approach to DSII) – Y – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N - ; M - timdiggerm, fishmanlee

3.      Swing Swing Swing in place of Lapti Nek/Jedi Rocks – Y – MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee; N – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, TheoOdo, Angel; M - darth_ender

4.      Duel of the Fates (space battle) – Y – MrInsaneA, Ronster, emanswfan; N – timdiggerm, Vladius, aalenfae, Angel; M - fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender

5.      Stick with ’97 celebration music as opposed to Yub Nub [suggestions for alternate songs brought up] – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; N – DominicCobb [suggested new composition] , Angel [suggested new song]; M -

6.      Lapti Nek instead of Jedi Rocks (but with SE footage) – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, darth_ender; N – MrInsaneA, fishmanlee, aalenfae (cut whole scene); M - Angel

Coruscant:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII info on surface – Y – timdiggerm, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, aalenfae; M - fishmanlee, darth_ender, Angel

2.      Endor is a moon of Coruscant – Y – Vladius, TheoOdo; N - MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, aalenfae, Angel, emanswfan; M - fishmanlee, darth_ender

3.      Blow up or threaten to blow up Coruscant – Y – timdiggerm, Vladius, fishmanlee; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; M -

4.      Move final Luke/Vader confrontation to Coruscant surface – Y – Vladius, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; M -

Opening/Early scenes:

1.      Opening scene stealing DSII and trying to flee in ship, pursued by star destroyer, escape pod landing on planet surface – Y – timdiggerm, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; M - fishmanlee

2.      Opening on Dagobah with minimal alterations to that scene, then on to Vader’s arrival at DSII, then on to Tatooine – Y – fishmanlee, darth_ender, Angel; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, aalenfae; M -

3.      Opening with Vader arriving at DSII, then on to Dagobah, then on to Tatooine. – Y timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, aalenfae, Angel; N – Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo; M - fishmanlee, darth_ender

4.      Open with Executor near DSII, Vader mentally contacts Luke, Luke is in cave on Dagobah, back to DSII and Vader arrives, back to Dagobah – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender; N – MrInsaneA, Ronster, emanswfan, aalenfae, Angel; M -

5.      Include Boushh (later we discover it’s Leia) as bounty hunter helping steal DSII info – Y – timdiggerm, Vladius, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, fishmanlee, aalenfae, Angel; M - darth_ender

6.      DSII should be no where near Coruscant – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, Angel; N – TheoOdo; M - darth_ender

7.      Include a scene somewhere between Dagobah and Tatooine that shows the DSII info being delivered to the Alliance, either to Mon Mothma or just to a ship – Y – DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N - MrInsaneA, aalenfae, Angel; M - timdiggerm, fishmanlee, darth_ender

8.      Include a scene as padding after Luke parts ways after rescuing Han where he goes back to Dagobah and goes to the Dark Side Cave – Y – Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel;

9.      Luke flies through Beggar’s Canyon as he arrives at Tatooine – Y – MrInsaneA, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, Angel; N – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, fishmanlee; M - darth_ender

10.  Luke’s conversation with Obi-Wan takes place in Obi-Wan’s hut – Y - TheoOdo, aalenfae, aalenfae, Angel; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, darth_ender; M – fishmanlee (only if necessary)

Tatooine/Rescuing Han:

1.      Luke uses the Force to close the Rancor gate, or at least to hurl the skull – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N - ; M -

2.      Remove the Sarlaac beak but keep the SE tentacles – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae (plus additional ideas), Angel; N – MrInsaneA, emanswfan; M - fishmanlee

3.      Cut Max Rebo’s band (still include music, but don’t show them) – Y – DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, darth_ender, Angel; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, Vladius, fishmanlee; M – aalenfae (depends on if they can digitally be made to look alive)

Vader:

1.      Show a stronger Vader, not such a pushover to the Emperor (unspecified how) – Y – timdiggerm, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius; M -

2.      Obi-Wan communicates with Vader – Y - TheoOdo, aalenfae; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, darth_ender, Angel; M -

3.      A quicker-to-violence with underlings, still subservient to Emperor Vader – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo, aalenfae, Angel; N – Vladius, fishmanlee; M - darth_ender

Boba Fett:

1.      Cut out Fett completely – Y – Vladius, fishmanlee, aalenfae (unless new footage filmed) , Angel; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, TheoOdo; M - darth_ender

2.      Luke kills Fett, decapitates him – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, fishmanlee; N - MrInsaneA, emanswfan, TheoOdo, aalenfae, Angel; M - darth_ender

3.      Han deliberately hits Boba Fett’s jetpack – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – Ronster, fishmanlee, aalenfae; M - darth_ender

4.      More Boba Fett action, i.e. flamethrower, jetting out of Sarlaac’s mouth, etc. – Y – MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee, Angel; N – DominicCobb, Ronster, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; M - timdiggerm

5.      Fett delivers DS info to Rebellion (as treachery, or as an independent contractor) – Y - Vladius, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; M - timdiggerm

6.      Boba Fett survives the destruction of Jabba’s barge – Y – timdiggerm, Vladius, emanswfan, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, aalenfae; M - fishmanlee, darth_ender, Angel

7.      Boba Fett allows Jabba’s death to take over his criminal empire – Y – Vladius, emanswfan, Angel; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; M -

Ewoks:

1.      Make them tougher by cutting cute actions, redubbing with more aggressive sounds – Y – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N - ; – M - timdiggerm

2.      Give them vampire-like fangs – Y – Vladius, emanswfan; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; M - Angel

3.      Ewoks actually use more language – Y – Vladius, Ronster, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, emanswfan; M - fishmanlee, Angel

4.      Remove Wicket’s first encounter with Leia to add mystery – Y – DominicCobb, Vladius, TheoOdo, aalenfae (or shorten it), Angel; N – MrInsaneA, Ronster, emanswfan; M - timdiggerm, fishmanlee, darth_ender

5.      Show Ewoks with stormtrooper helmets in village – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; N - ; M -

Relationships:

1.      Cut indications of Han’s jealousy, as this was taken care of in ESB – Y – DominicCobb, Ronster, aalenfae; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo; M - darth_ender, Angel

2.      Cut Luke telling Leia they are siblings (but not Obi-Wan telling Luke) – Y - Ronster; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee, TheoOdo, darth_ender, aalenfae; M - Angel

Battle of Endor:

1.      Concentrate the various cuts, focusing first on action on DSII, then cover the surface battle, then cover the space battle, instead of jumping between the three – Y - Ronster, TheoOdo; N – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, emanswfan, darth_ender, Angel (wants more interesting scenes to alter between, but not to concentrate them); M - timdiggerm, fishmanlee

2.      Include many more ships, including more Mon Cal cruisers and Victory-class star destroyers – Y Mon Cal – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, emanswfan, darth_ender, Angel; Y – B-wings – timdiggerm, darth_ender; Y – Victories – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, emanswfan, darth_ender; N Victories – timdiggerm, Ronster, Angel; M – fishmanlee Y – other - aalenfae, Angel (wants more variety to Rebels, more uniformity among Empire)

3.      Include General Madine scenes, and have his Mon Cal cruiser be the first destroyed by the DSII – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Ronster (second cruiser), emanswfan, darth_ender (second cruiser) , aalenfae, Angel; N - ; M - fishmanlee

Executor:

1.      A-wing fires missile at bridge – Y – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, emanswfan; N – MrInsaneA, Vladius, Ronster, fishmanlee, aalenfae, Angel; M - darth_ender

2.      Y-wing uses bombs on Executor – Y timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel (also suggests bombing the Death Star); N - ; M - fishmanlee

Lando:

1.      Let him die in DSII explosion – Y – DominicCobb, Ronster, Angel; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, TV’s Frink, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae; M -

2.      Let him live as in original film – Y – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, TV’s Frink, darth_ender, Angel; N – DominicCobb, aalenfae; M - Ronster, fishmanlee

3.      Make it appear as if he dies at first, then show later that he survives – Y – Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae, MrInsaneA; N – timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Ronster, Angel; M -

Ending:

1.      Anakin’s Force ghost appears at pyre scene instead of with Yoda and Obi-Wan - Y – fishmanlee (show him in both shots) , darth_ender, aalenfae; N – MrInsaneA, timdiggerm, DominicCobb, Vladius, Ronster, emanswfan; M - , Angel

2.      Put pyre scene at very end, after celebrations – Y – MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, Ronster, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae; N – Vladius, emanswfan, Angel; M – timdiggerm;

3.      Remove Anakin’s ghost completely – Y – DominicCobb, Ronster; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, emanswfan, fishmanlee, aalenfae, Angel; M - darth_ender

4.      Pyre scene takes place on Tatooine instead of Endor – Y – DominicCobb, emanswfan; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, Vladius, Ronster, fishmanlee, aalenfae, Angel; M - darth_ender

5.      Remove celebrations throughout galaxy, only showing them on Endor – Y – Ronster; N – timdiggerm, MrInsaneA, DominicCobb, emanswfan, fishmanlee, darth_ender, aalenfae, Angel; M -

Well, I think I'm probably going to have to remain the coordinator for the time being.  I won't be nearly as available starting this weekend, so I hope everyone else's energy holds up.  I'll try to help keep things moving.  Votes should be up real soon.

You have a way of putting things so delicately, walkingdork.  But I see what you mean.

Okay, all the votes are now in, including the special effects team's!  Thanks everyone!  The votes came from the most active participants, so that's what really matters at the present.  We will have another round of voting at some later point, but hopefully we have a good direction to move in.  As I said, Angel's and Aalenfae's are especially weighty because they have to be willing to do what we request, but hopefully anything the majority disagrees with them on might still encourage them to help us meet certain goals.  Also, as Ronster has suggested, we can also seek help from others to complete things.  For instance, filming a new scene would be quite difficult, but if someone can get some friends to help, it may be possible.

I'm tallying up the votes, but I'm also at work, so it might take a bit.  I'll try to get it up in the next hour, or else it may have to wait till tonight.

georgec said:

Politicians love to have changes of heart when it ensures their survival on various issues. Just ask Mitt Romney or John Kerry!

I made the post about Santorum not so much to say that it invalidates the stance of someone who is genuinely anti-abortion, but that most politicians are full of shit on this issue (and many others) and it's sheer folly for common folk to feel empowered or inspired by the phony words the politicians spout.

Also, this story exhibits a situation in which a person who presents oneself as 100% anti-abortion in all cases (see video in my news link) will bend his/her morals and rules when a complicated pregnancy affects him/her. I connected this to my comical image above it which illustrates that people do not often practice what they preach.

Whew.

Yeah, politicians are phonies.  And this proves that it is seldom wise to stick with a pure stance; there is grey area to almost anything.  I am blessed and cursed with a strong ability to see both sides to most issues.  Problem is I often have a hard time creating a firm opinion of my own as a result.

I'm not defending his position at all, but rather criticizing the logic employed by the blogger, implying that if Santorum is pro-choice in any circumstance, he should be pro-choice in all circumstances.  Not trying to cover morals, just the logic employed by the blogger.

EDIT: I typed the last bit in a hurry, so allow me to clarify.  If the blogger's message had been, "Ric Santorum is a hypocrite for stating he opposes abortion in all cases but making an exception for his wife whose health was in jeopardy," it would have been a valid argument.  It would neither have proved or disproved the morality of abortions in any circumstance, but would have identified him as a hypocrite.  However, that's not what the message of the blog was.  Instead, its message was, "Ric Santorum opposes abortion in all cases except when health is at risk, as evidenced by his wife's abortion when her health was in jeopardy; Ric Santorum thereby shows the need for choice, thereby supporting pro-choice."  This is an either-or argument: either you are completely against abortion or you are in favor of choice, and if in favor of any choice, you should be in favor of all choices.

Then such statements are hypocritical unless he had a genuine change of heart, (which I am more willing to grant a politician than most).  But even if he is a true hypocrite, it does not invalidate the point.  It merely makes him look weak on his stance.

Daily Kos argues here that if you favor any kind of choice, in this case when someone's life is at risk, then you should favor all choice.  I really is an either-or fallacy.  If he has never said he opposes abortion when a mother's life is at risk, then he is clearly not being hypocritical.  Note that I don't entirely agree with his stance, though we are rather close (I allow exceptions when mental health is at risk as well, which allows specifically for the incest and rape cases).  But this blog is not presenting the case fairly.  I also advocate Medicaid for the destitute, but that doesn't mean I advocate mandated tax-funded health care for everyone.  To say that supporting one means I support all creates a false dilemma.

Also note that being a hypocrite, while it does often invalidate a person in the eyes of the populace, does not actually invalidate the point.  If a man who opposes adultery commits adultery, that doesn't suddenly mean adultery is okay.

And after all this in his defense, I'm not even in favor of Santorum.

POWER!  UNLIMITED POWEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

georgec said:

georgec said:

This made me laugh.

Wasn't sure if I should put this in the politics thread, but oh well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/16/985393/-Rick-Santorum-is-against-abortion-for-any-reason,-with-one-exception-

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

I wish there were some way to tie Anakin's survival to his desire to "stop people from dying."  I think if the story could be altered so that instead of protecting Padme he were simply seeking greater power, including immortality, then it would make for a more believable fall to the Dark Side.  That is what Palpatine is offering after all.  His survival here could be his greatest success.  In spite of his body's destruction, he does indeed survive.

^That could be interesting.  I don't know if it'd be worthwhile to the story, but I think it would be interesting to see.  I certainly hope to see more ships constructing the Death Star which should include big vessels.

Was I sounding like a dictator?  I thought I was just being overly sensitive.

Wow, all these extremely dislikable personality traits you're exhibiting only make me that much more attracted to you.  I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life, MrInsaneA...

I figured I probably misunderstood.  I honestly still don't quite understand what you meant as your sentence structure can be confusing at times, but you sounded a bit hostile with that comment.

Ummm...no.  Usually one person with ideas that are largely his or her own make his or her own edit with his or her own resources and a little feedback from those interested in the project.  This happens to be the collaborative thread where we share ideas and try to get direction.  Yes, apparently it's a new thing around here.

You can always work on your own edit if you don't like the tediousness of this project.

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

There is a little bit at the end of ROTS, I was going to suggest using that for the planet reveal you mention Darth Ender I was also eyeing Ogana's Tantive for possible shots the other day for the "Stealing the plans opening" Suggestion  that would also make it look a bit more different than what I currently have. anyway just trying to help

Always appreciating the help, even if I disagree.  We debate our ideas to sharpen them, and ultimately I agree with your suggestion on the lightsaber construction--seems the best way to pull off the idea.  And that's true about ROTS, except I think it's a deleted scene.  That's even better because we won't be really reusing footage that made it into the actual film.  Only problem is Yoda's ship  is in almost every frame.  Perhaps there is a way to digitally remove it.  I dunno.

But there's a great deal of symbolism to the whole object, not just the crystal.

Anyway, I got a PM from MrInsaneA.

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

Ronster said:

Johannus said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfOrr31FIw&feature=youtu.be

Here is a very (very) rough mock up of what I was suggesting for an opening Dagobah scene.  I removed the sound altogether as it was all over the place and it would take much more than a mock up to fix that so initiallyI'm afraid we'll have to make do with some annotations to accompany it, so here goes.

To start with there would be a new establishing shot showing the Xwing on Dagobah, then inside Yoda's house we would see him moving over to obtain his lightsaber crystal, talking to Luke about how the lightsaber is only a tool through which to use the force (or anything that sounds wise). 

Then show him turning and moving the crystal which then falls into Luke's hand.  Then we would pick back up to Luke and Yoda outside where Luke builds the Lightsaber using the force (which was inspired by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4 ).

Then instead of having Luke immediately ignite the blade I would have him walk off, and then we cut to the Yoda death scene shortly after.  Then once Yoda dies Luke tweaks the lightsaber and ignites it (the deleted scene footage changed to set on Dagobah as shown in the photo I linked to earlier).  After this Luke would move to his Xwing to depart and hear Yoda's voice urge him to hurry to his friends' rescue (as I described briefly in my earlier post). 

I know this would reuse a lot of footage but given the limited movement from both Yoda and Luke, and the fact Luke's face is offscreen any time he would need to talk then Luke's speech shouldn't be a problem, and Yoda's is only limited really by his lack of existing lines, but I'm still playing around there, and there might be more sources I don't know about.  But visually the backgrounds could be changed without much work, as there is very little movement, and even Luke's costume could be changed to a partly new costume, even if it would be difficult to make it match exactly with his RotJ one.  I know it wouldn't be easy, but I do think it would be possible. 

I think the benefits are it potentially has an awesomeness factor because it would be cool to see Luke build a lightsaber.  It would also explain how he happened upon the necessary pieces to build one (because Yoda handed his old lightsaber down to a new apprentice).  And it would increase the running time, which allows more freedom with other cutting without damaging the overall length. 

The additional clips were to show Luke holding the crystal, and Luke examining the hilt after piecing it together. 

Anyway I hope someone else might agree that this idea has potential (despite an extremely rough demonstration as to its execution). 

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize somthing as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed over the course of minutes...... But what I really like is Yoda giving him the crystal, and that would be enough to show that he passed it onto luke....

"have somthing for you I do..."

that's enough if we were to see the crystal and luke hold it in his robot hand this would also add symbolism to that, like yoda trying to protect him which I am very fond of also. If it's a crystal glowing like bright green and lukes sabre suddenly turns green as opposed to blue.... I think the audience will get it no need to explain it in such detail.

I like this part not seeing it constructed would be boring IMO

I don't think it would be so boring as it would be difficult to pull off successfully and I really don't like reused footage unless it can be disguised well.  Your idea may be more feasible here, Ronster.  But even that may be difficult.  Good brainstorming, guys.

Johannus said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

With regard to having to make lips move digitally, you could construct a fairly static image of one of the terminals and add some beeping or flashing or whatnot and have his line (or part of it) come from offscreen before cutting to the wider shot including Madine.  This way you could have a bit more freedom with his line and maybe show the death star on the display to make it clear he has a reading or something.  Just an idea, as the less movement in a shot the easier it would be to create and if its only for quick shots such as this it could be done without appearing too fake.  It might even be possible to edit a shot from Star Trek or Stargate or something that has a similar shot of hands on a terminal or monitor but without the face being shown so there would be some movement, but without finding a suitable clip it is hard to know.

Good point.  It may be hard to find the right clip since those other shows have a sort of different feel to their universe, but maybe we could find a computer panel that matches well enough, especially with appropriate color correction.

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

Definitely agreeing with your last statement.  The first is the surprise; the second packs the emotion.  And maybe you're right about how to pull it off with just an alarm too, but I worry that the audience might wonder how they know the Death Star is about to fire.  Maybe it would be enough, I dunno.

fishmanlee said:

how about: That Blast- Madine!

That could work.  The way we'd have to work this is with the first Mon Cal explosion, focus on Nien Nunb, then Lando, who then says, "That..." then cut back to Nien Nunb, "...thing's operational!"  Cut a bit of Nunb.  Then at the explosion of the second cruiser, show Lando first, "That blast..." Cut to Nunb, show his little nod this time as Lando continues softly, "Madine..."  I don't know if that would work or if I described it well, but that's what I'd imagine at the present.  Maybe a shot of Nien Nunb could be grabbed from somewhere else too to fill in some of Lando's talking.

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

I'm glad to see you bringing your vision to life.  You could very well be helping yourself and all of us at the same time.  Keep up the good work!