darth_ender

A few typos and a repeated item on the ballot, but can't bother to take it back now.  Oh well.  Hope it's a useful way of doing the vote.

So I've decided now is the time to release the url to the new forum.  It's simple, but I think it should meet the needs of the editing crew.

http://collab.forumcircle.com/portal.php

Still waiting on GoodMusician and Jaitea to register, and there's not much activity yet, but that's to be expected given busy schedules and not much to report yet.  Hopefully the editors can make some tentative timetables so we know generally when to expect updates and to keep each other motivated.

I'm thinking of adding a single forum where guests can comment.  However, I'm not sure how wise that is, because I hope people will keep most comments here.  Let me know what you guys think.  No one will be able to register without a passcode, but if desired, folks can at least say, "Good job."

And a final note: we REALLY could use someone willing to do a rough edit of the whole film for the editors to use as a framework.  As the edit progresses, altered and fixed scenes can replace the old versions (i.e. emanswfan's improved deleted sandstorm scene could replace the BD version).  This way we can also see how simple editing choices work, such as the altered Endor battle, the droids falling directly onto the skiff (assuming that passes the vote), the placing of Dagobah and Vader reaching out to Luke in the beginning, etc.  It wouldn't have to be perfect, particularly sound-wise.  I think it would simply be a means of visualizing many of the changes and pacing.

WHOEVER VOLUNTEERS TO MAKE THE ROUGH EDIT AUTOMATICALLY GETS ACCESS TO THE NEW FORUM, for what it's worth to you.  You'd get more input on the process and get earlier updates.  Please, we really could use an editor to spare the special effects team the work of doing extraneous stuff and allowing them to focus on the actual effects.

I think this is great, and makes Padme's death more believable.  I don't think she should have died immediately for several dramatic reasons within the film itself, not to mention the obvious Leia memory.

But to make sense of the rest of the film, Anakin's visions would have to be of her death by whatever other means, such as the idea of the disease or whatever.  Though not my favorite story choice, Anakin's pursuit of dark power is motivated by his premonition that she would die.

I also wish there were some way to emphasize that Anakin did succeed in "keeping [someone] from dying."  It'd be cool to show that his survival was entirely due to his use of the Dark Side, but even then he suffered a fate in many ways worse than death.  This would emphasize the selfishness and futility of the Dark Side as well as its powerful capacity.

Here is the voting ballot:

http://www.4shared.com/office/x2FcL1wj/Vote_2.html

So I guess it would be ideal to dub 3PO as well.  That certainly changes the mood.

Sluggo said:

darth_ender said:

So we're a month and a day into this project, and it has proven popular thus far.  I thought I'd include this picture to illustrate Ronster's idea.

This would be cool to see if it could be done convincingly.  My only concern is that it would mess up the timing already in the movie.  The rebels discover that it is a trap, they turn to avoid the shields, find themselves in front of the Imperial fleet and the fighters appear.  Adding this shot would be an interruption to the pacing.  

Unless we are okay with the audience knowing about the trap and have the storm of ties launch as the Falcon is coming out of hyperspace, making it past the DS shield (is that a concern?  How would an audience watching the edit be ok with the tie fighters leaving the DS, but the rebels would be stopped by the shield?) and flying from behind the fleet of Star Destroyers to then engage the rebels?

Yes, timing is the question.  I would think it would actually best fit where "the shield is down" and the Rebel fighters begin their approach towards the Death Star.  That's when the Imperials realize, "Oh, crap," and launch more TIEs.

I think I may have to vote for the Green Party this time around.

Yes, so am I.  This edit has fairly modest goals in mind, and yet it can really change the nature of the whole film and I'm looking forward to it.

Did you know Swiss bobsleds sound like TIE fighters?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZaKA2Z7QKk&t=2m30s

Yes, you're right, I was kidding and I am aware of the relation.  I was just jumping on the "Twister Tease Train."

Well that's weird.  I just copied and pasted.  I'll have to fix it later.  I'm actually thinking of sending out a ballot in Excel.  It would make it easier to track the votes.  The xls file has the correct format.

I had this crazy/awful idea that even if I were to put it up for a vote, I'd vote it down.  Nevertheless, I find it a fun thought and I can't resist sharing.  I guess the logic for Vader's initial arrival in a regular Star Destroyer was so that when the Emperor came later, he'd come in the Executor.  Since we're changing it so Vader arrives in the Executor, what is the Emperor going to come in?  Certainly not a puny regular Star Destroyer!  He comes in the Eclipse! (Note that I don't care about its canonical incompleteness at this point)

Why I think it's a fun idea: it's the Emperor's ship; it's a badder ship than the Executor; I honestly like the way it looks.

Why the idea just plain sucks: this is definitely overboard with new ship designs; the ship is ridiculously powerful, with a superlaser (stupid!); as if the Rebels' odds weren't bad enough; inserting this into our edit would be a storyline/technical nightmare.

I just had to say it.  If I were Catholic, I would now head to confession.

Yeah, you're right, Ray, but I just picture some silly fall, "Oof," har har.  I want it to fit the triumphant mood of the moment.

Bingo, I really enjoyed that scenario when looking at the wishlist, but then it made me worry: if the situation is already so bleak, how on earth (or Endor) could the good guys hope to pull off a victory against such odds?

So here is the second round of voting.  This was a quick look through and description, and it still took me a long time.  I didn't even bother organizing it that well like I did for the last one.  I did include many links to ideas to assist in understanding the logic behind the suggestion, and I even included ideas that the original proponent backed off on.  The only ideas I deliberately skimmed were the Bothan/Death Star plans scenes, considering most were voted down the first time, and I just want to see if it's worthwhile to continue exploring the idea.  Please look it over and let me know if I missed a suggestion you've already made (don't give me any new ones, please).  And voting won't start till tomorrow, giving folks a chance to let me know if I missed something.  If you vote early, you might miss something.

Final note: the PM box only handles so many characters.  Don't PM me.  I've created a new email address just for this edit.  Tomorrow when voting begins, I will provide the new email address.

With no further delay, the items for consideration:

Fishmanlee’s alternate music cues: (Please compare to the original cues)

The Iron Door: 

Bounty for a Wookiee (SE Version) NEWER: 

Sail Barge Assault Alternate NEWEST: 

Ben and Luke on Log NEW: 

Father and Son: 

The Lightsaber: 

Leia Breaks The News Alternate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLidns6SSMM&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_K8HL0psC8&feature=channel_video_titlehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8eCuzn5q5U&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USlGlb_D9DM&feature=channel_video_titlehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSIG6oSCmJY&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek2YLVnzgwQ&feature=channel_video_titlehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoYbpEyY-Y8&feature=channel_video_title

Have Boba Fett take off before the sail barge scene and we don’t see him again

Ships to include in the Battle of Endor:

            More B-wings

            More Mon Calamari cruisers

            Alternate Mon Calamari designs

            Clearly larger Home One

            BTL-B Y-wings

            Victory-class Star Destroyers

            Recusant-class light destroyers

            Beat up Naboo N-1 fighter cameo

            Beat up Z-95 Headhunter cameo

            Beat up ARC-170 fighters

            Larger main communications Star Destroyer (mentioned in the novel as "one of the larger Destroyers--"the Empire's main communications ship."

            Other less- or non-canonical ships (be specific)

            And even more other less- or non canonical ships (be specific)

Alternate fighter markings (i.e. green painted X-wings)

TheoOdo’s alternate plot with Coruscant (I know Coruscant was already voted down in most cases, but this clear a plot had not yet been presented, and I feel it only fair to include it)

Have Madine die on the second destroyed Mon Cal cruiser instead of the first

Include a brief clip where the Rebel’s take out the main communications Star Destroyer as described by darth_ender

Include a brief clip where B-wings destroy a Star Destroyer as described by darth_ender

Have Hayden Christiansen as Anakin’s Force ghost

Have Sebastian Shaw as Anakin’s Force ghost

Include a Ric Olie cameo

If Ric does make a cameo, have him die

Have Ric Olie voiced by TV’s Frink (since Ric would be an old man at this point anyway)

Instead of a specific Bothan scene, I just want a straight up or down vote, and in the third round we can hammer out a specific vision of incorporating them; include any kind of Bothan scene or Death Star plans delivery?

Show the Rebels suffering more losses during the Battle of Endor

Show the Imperials fleeing after the loss of the Executor

Show the Imperial fleet protecting the Death Star, then being destroyed in its explosion

Vader cracks glass when talking to Luke on the Endor landing platform in anger

Death Star is like Centerpoint Station, capable of destroying distant stars

Death Star has a powerful circular beam that emanates from its equator

There are two Death Stars, the first truly non-functional, the second hidden and truly dangerous (Luke is aboard the second)

Boba Fett shoots Luke’s hand (editing his shooting at Luke on the other skiff with Luke being hit in the hand)

Extend the Dagobah opening greatly, as suggested by Johannus

Extend it slightly with only Yoda giving Luke a crystal for his lightsaber, but not the rest of suggested extension

Star Destroyer docks with Death Star

If Duel of the Fates is used, consider other Williams versions 1 and 2

Transition from Dagobah to Death Star to Tatooine something along the lines of this (note that the vote-winning Beggar’s Canyon flythrough would not fit this scheme)

Include Luke saying, “I have a promise to keep to an old friend,” referring to rescuing Han on Tatooine.

Use the Sentinel shuttle in place of the Lambda shuttle as the captured shuttle used by Han and Co.

MrInsaneA’s requested background improvements

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/545/nazimonitor.jpg

http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pjeAzVKMdslAa9lqCMeQdYb8Mfwz9TBc8nh_UsL7K6crKsDZxssKaqIjxH0ZpYce5mkOyYrRcOqeOyhsEJSWHYQ/Eye%20droid%202.jpg

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5971/armeat.jpg

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt285/nDuTwan/EndorRebeledit.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/roughshit.jpg

MrInsaneA’s second round of backdrop requests

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/oralfixations2.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5609/shieldpov.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/dsflyby.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/newarrival.jpg

http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pjZEJIyYfr09CFoXlRn1Zqlg-G5BB-1IPHvU-IX4VsQ03MkvMcidKMuaNb2XiebbqXMoEHjOOTpXG7DW2HKANvw/Dragon%20carving.jpg

http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1p44xTtY_ywls95oYhdq-HRXyRsJfYexklSZtqDieQ5pkE-e2tCgklDDGUsCMFiEIEzSWMd8mEwFMW7LBL2Ab8Ug/Endor%20waterfall%20base.jpg

http://www.axia.ws/axia/images/posts/lukes_saber.jpg

http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pYApumaX1V7cmzwOgFoZWpA-mCMwJz7GSsjt61vJn8vOwEuRGjyJr1n1QqNrORTJSi-0BNW_4aS5KVNLpbiKBDQ/BOOM!.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/expcon.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/dssurface.jpg

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1561/towert.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a115/doubleofive/ROTJ%20Wishlist/Vaderios/life.jpg

http://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y1pjLjnMhmuyg99s3qcb9NEJJsznrTiEN6x7OHkDfFB9hqiMiU00x5gcUQIL8HTx4qIO5NQKStR59Bpa

“The Street Singer” playing when the droids arrive in Jabba’s throne room

Bingowings’ suggestion on taking out the shield generator

Han and Lando bury the hatchet over Luke’s intercom as they depart from Tatooine (not sure how doable this is)

Vader’s arrival at the Death Star is more significant, with more fighter escort and a larger welcoming entourage

If we do include Bothans, they are like the established EU canon

If we do include Bothans, they are human

Alternate Lapti Nek vocals

Make the Death Star’s orbit around Endor significantly further to be more realistic and emphasize its size (not to mention sparing the lives of Ewoks during the fallout)

More intercom chatter during the starfighter dogfights

TIE cockpit (pilot or window) shots    

More capital ship skirmishes, including a capital ship assault on the Executor prior to the A-wings taking out the generator and bridge

A full Rebel detachment rescues Han

Include HUDs (heads up displays) in the Rebel cockpit shots

As Luke departs Dagobah, he tells R2, “That’s right R2, we’re going to Tatooine [not showing his mouth, planet name taken from ESB].  I have a promise to keep to an old friend.”

Piett deliberately rams the Death Star with the Executor

Vader personally announces the dissolution of the Empire before he dies

Vader personally announces the a ceasefire before he dies

Some other voice announces the defeat of the Empire during the celebration scenes

Working title: Last of the Jedi

Show TIE fighters actually being released from their hangar

So we're a month and a day into this project, and it has proven popular thus far.  I thought I'd include this picture to illustrate Ronster's idea.

This sounds more realistic.  We'd have to be cautious not to succumb to the major criticism of that very part, i.e. dumb humor pulling them out of the sand.  If not done correctly, their landing on the skiff could be as silly as Threepio's antics in the Geonosian factory.  But if done well, for instance, making the jump not appear to drastic and not making their fall too catastrophic, it could be a good solution to that part.

I look forward to your ideas/suggestions after giving it a gander :)

Agreed!  I'll add it to the vote.

So I've quickly looked through all pages since the last vote was called and have included everything of significance I noticed.  I did it rather quickly, which means I probably overlooked some things.  I'm trying to include links so people will understand references, such as unfamiliar ships designs, lengthy suggestions, music clips, etc.  That may take a bit and I have to study for my first exam on Wed.  Hope to have it up today at some point.  I doubt I'll give a full week for responses, as most people voted on the first and last days, so I'll probably shorten it.

Well, aalenfae is the one who'd be including most of the ships with his CGI skills, and I think he has access to many that he's interested in via the aforementioned 3d model site.  But yes, there are other hurdles.  We'll figure this out.  Even the vote isn't the final say, only a guide, and in the end we simply have to trust the editors to follow the will of the people as much as possible.

As for plot hurdles, what suggestions do you have, Sluggo?  I've been smoothing out the story, but I hope it reflects the views of the majority.

ray_afraid said:

MrInsaneA said:

ray_afraid said:

MrInsaneA said:

The Rebellion shouldn't feel like an organized military so much as a ragtag militia. 

But they are an organized military. I think what you guys are discussing would work better for a pre-ANH rebellion. At this point (RotJ), they've had some BIG victories (the ANH opening text refers to the fact that they have already had some big wins and are growing) and would have gained much more mainstream support.

That may make sense realistically but thematically it would be good to separate the Rebels from the Empire. Empire: Big military force of humans. Rebels: Rag tag group of aliens and humans. 

And that is exactly what is represented on screen as the film stands. The rebels are out numbered, out gunned, and out classed. Just not as much as they were during the battle of Yavin, nor would they be as I've pointed out already. We see that they are a cobbled together group of aliens and humans alike (unlike the Empire). The only reason the Rebels are launching such a daring assault on the DSII is because they think it isn't working yet- not because they've become such a big military force that they are confident in their abilities and machinery. When they find out the DSII is operational, they collectively shit themselves and without Landos courage and faith in his buddies, they would have turned tail and ran.

I don't wanna be "that guy" here, but the stakes were ever bit as high in ANH as in RotJ and the Rebels in ANH only had two types of ships as opposed to Jedi's four. Why wouldn't they pull all stops during the battle of Yavin?

I kid you not when I say I truly appreciate your viewpoint.  Though I disagree, my hope is that through debate we will achieve the ultimate edit.  Please continue being "that guy" until we find some conclusion, probably through the vote I hope to post today or tomorrow.  Thanks for explaining your POV so clearly.

As to your final question, I always figured that since at the start of ANH they had only just "won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."  They still had little to work with.  Heck, it appears they didn't even have any capital ships at Yavin.  But after their victory at Yavin, more peoples gained faith in the cause and the ability for a rebellion to succeed, thus more ships by the time of Endor.

emanswfan said:

I'd love to show all you guys the sandstorm scene when it is completed.  I am currently color correcting it followed by a lengthy frame-by-frame process of removing dust, scratches, etc. from the picture.  I have perfected the process enough to get rid of the possible randomization that can occur while cleaning the footage.  You just have to be very handy with the clone stamp, spot healing brush, and magic eraser tools to do so.

I am seriously so very excited and appreciative of your work, and I haven't even seen much yet.  You're the man, eman!  Thanks for what you're doing.  So much depends on your willingness to do this :)

PS Did you get the PM with the link to the new technical forum?

Wait...what?  Ah, crap!  I thought the GOP finally had a decent candidate!

PS In spite of my part affiliation, I appreciated your humor, even the brother smooching part.

So I came here to tell you what I found on myspleen, but then I read the comments and see you already noticed.  Glad to know you're getting closer.  Can't wait for a good copy of The Great Heap to surface.

How's the baby?  Hope he/she is coming along well :)

Final thought of the night: I didn't really get a whole lot of enthusiastic support when it came to people organizing and submitting vote ideas.  This of course means that I'll be going through the past who knows how many pages and gathering them myself.  I'll try to have something ready soon (Ron, this is the second of three votes).  Thanks to those who did some gathering (fishmanlee, your post of music alternates comes to mind).  This vote will not include items up for revote.  We may even simply have to include revote items for the third round, with very few new ideas.

For the record, if I haven't already made it clear enough, I want to see the Mon Cals in action, and I want to see a large Home One, as the original studio model suggests (not the canonical size).  I've stated this before, but more people are involved now than then.  Here is a scaling of various Mon Cal ships.  The ones of significance to us are the Home One, winged Liberty-type, and the "pearly wingless" type.  The others are fairly spurious in my opinion, but at the same time, it might be fun to see more of the smaller varieties, as I've always read that each cruiser was unique.  The Strident shown here and the Viscount (not shown) are not worth it in my mind.

I know that according to EU canon (which I no longer care much about), some of these haven't yet been invented, but I simply think they might be a nice pattern to follow to add variety to the classes of cruisers.