darth_ender

I agree.  I'm really impressed that he could write a film that was both a sequel to a TV series and a standalone film.  Enough detail was included in the film and enough attention to the characters provided that I could watch it with serious enjoyment.  I think I mostly found myself confused by Inara and didn't even feel the emotion of Shepherd Book's death, but other than that, I could follow the film just fine.

Yes, I'm very impressed with Whedon's storytelling and dialogue writing abilities.  He's a talented man who did a great job with Avengers.

Wow, that is pretty cool.  It's like Star Wars in Middle Earth.  Interesting stylistic choices.

So I saw Serentiy a long time ago by recommendation of a friend.  I saw it again fairly recenlty and enjoyed it, but had never seen Firefly.  Well, we recently bought it for $20 at Wal-mart and have been watching it.  It has great humor, fun action, and interesting niche in the sci-fi and Western genres...and far too much sexuality.  Yes, you all probably think I'm a prude, but it gets tiresome.  The most interesting stuff has been the cleanest so far.  My favorite episode thus far has been Ariel, a frightening episode with those creepy blue hand guys.  And there was no sex at all.  That's what the show should have been all along.  Anyway, minus the sex, I really am enjoying it, and it's nice to see the characters of Serenity fleshed out (no pun intended).

The Miracle Maker did pull it off quite well, didn't it? I really like that film. :)

Yeah, it certainly would be "artsy," as you say, and take a willingness to jump in styles.  However, I only think the jump would need to be in Episode II.  Episode I would be focused on finding Anakin, fighting Maul and defeating him, then Anakin growing up and finding interest in Padme, while we find that Dooku is on the scene and starting the Clone Wars.  Episode II would be about Maul's return and second defeat, develop Dooku's rogue side, the ongoing Clone Wars, and the intro to Grievous.  Episode III would be about Dooku's defeat, the end of the Clone Wars, Anakin's fall, and the realization that Palpatine was the puppeteer the whole time.  So the only jump would be between episodes, not within.  But still, like you said, it would take a willingness to jump.  Perhaps the cartoon could be used like you said.

But as I said before, I haven't watched much of the show, so really I'm just speculating, and even those who have haven't seen the end of it.  I'm just thinking of an alternate way to tell the story.  And yes, MrInsaneA, I have wondered about how difficult it would be to decide what stories to tell in a film that's no longer than 150 minutes.

Ah, very cool.  This really gets me thinking...if Maul remains the primary villain in a trilogy as I've suggested, it means that Dooku can be scaled back a great deal, but still left in.  I know many have toyed with the rogue Jedi, thought, and perhaps that could still be implemented.  He could remain an unwitting puppet to Darth Sidious, but not a willing apprentice.  In Ep III, all references to Palpatine aboard Grievous's ship would be removed, and Grievous would merely be Dooku's General.  Dooku really would be a Force user who simply wanted to expand his powers, but not an all-out Sith.  He ultimately takes his Separatists and parts from the Republic, and while his methods may be grim, he is not purely evil, but rather a misguided Force user.  I dunno, just tossing ideas out there.  Nothing could possibly happen till the series is over anyway.

EDIT: Here's the pictue I was referring to.  Not sure if it's a real screenshot or someone's attempt to replicate it, but here it is anyway.

Thanks :)  Any ideas on potential alternate "apprentices" that could leave audiences wondering who might be Vader?

So I haven't made it through these films yet.  But from what I hear, they're fantastic, and you make it seem like Anakin dies, helping to preserve the mystery.  But one problem remains in continuity, and I can only think of one way to fix it: Obi-wan says Vader was a pupil of his till he turned to evil in ANH to Luke.  The only way to fix this is to edit out that line from ANH.  So my question is: are you planning on editing the OT as well?  I know you made a minor edit of ROTJ, but are you going to do anything more drastic with the whole trilogy?

Yes, very nice.  I agree with timdiggerm and obikal: maybe some more visual inference that lasers are still firing.  But even if you don't do that, I think it's great as is!  It's not hard to believe Jango held off on firing or that Obi-wan had made a turn that Jango didn't follow for a moment.  Again, brilliant work as always, Aal!

I've suggested this before, but I'm going to expand on it a bit.  In my mind, the PT should have centered on the Clone Wars.  But if you're just watching the films, the Clone Wars exist as little more than a battle at the end of Ep II and a battle in the opening of Ep III.  When I saw Ep III, I'd never seen any Clone Wars material, and therefore felt a bit cheated.

I think a brilliant way to edit the whole trilogy would require an adaptation to a different "stylistic choice."  In other words, I think a cross between Ep I and Ep II should be Ep I, Ep III should be Ep III, but Ep II should be an edit of the Clone Wars series.  I have a feeling that time lapses could be inferred, various battles shown, and still it not feel rushed.  Ideas that would need to be included would be a few battles, a proper introduction to General Grievous, a reintroduction to Darth Maul, and ultimately Palpatine's capture (hopefully shown when they wrap up the series).

This would improve the whole trilogy in multiple ways: it would keep a more consistent bad guy (Maul comes back), makes Grievous a useful character that we care about killing in Ep III, and makes the war feel like the focus of the trilogy, not a cheesy romance.  Perhaps we could even see Anakin's fall as a bit more realistic, as we might see him making other angry choices, and not just those motivated by his love for Shmi or Padme.

My reason for reposting this thought is that I know Maul lives in the series.  I haven't seen the episodes and I have avoided reading spoilers for when I eventually do, but I don't know how they explain how he survived.  But perhaps, if the proper footage survives, someone could sell his survival for another episode.

Darth Maul was not severed in press releases of Ep I.  I have seen a picture somewhere, though I can't find it.  However, it is mentioned here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120915/alternateversions

If that footage (bootlegged, most likely) could be found, it would make his survival more believable and lead well to a sequel.

EDIT: It occurs to me that perhaps there may also be footage in The Clone Wars that might help resolve my previous comment, in that perhaps it could be made to appear that another Jedi trainee becomes Vader, or at least that Obi-Wan has other trainees that could take the job.  I haven't seen many episodes, though, so I don't know.

Gosh, the Prowse/Lucas feud makes me really feel bad.  Usually I'm one to try to tone down the Lucas criticism, but this is really one case where I don't come to his defense.  Everything I've read makes me feel that Prowse was mistreated, whether intentionally or not.  Lucas was in the wrong.

Frankly, I think a live TV show taking place during the OT (as opposed to between the two trilogies) could be very interesting.  I think it'd be cool to actually develop some minor heroes, characters who do their part for the Rebellion.  I know it's classic storytelling to have the same cast of characters save the universe on multiple occasions, but I think it'd be nice to develop a few new characters as well, and have them contribute to the Galaxy's salvation.

Bibbity Bumpity Boo.

I'm wondering if Darth Editous is planning on returning to this now that the BDs are out.  His work is very nice, and it's pretty cool to have an alternate Special Edition to ANH:R.  I can't find a V3 out there anywhere, and now I find myself hoping that he'll come back to work on V4.

Finally got around to fixing up my Star Tours DVD.  It looks a bit better, has an extra clip of the brownish workprint, but I fixed the colars ;)  And I uploaded it at MySpleen, so anyone who wants to can get it there.  I will try to seed it all night and over the weekend, but during most of the week it will be hit and miss.  Hope you all like it.  I can't take credit for most of it, but I'm proud of what obscurities I managed to collect and put on one disc.

With regards to Vertigo, I agree that it is slow at times, but the psychological damage of our character and the obsessive tragedies he experiences are quite fascinating to me.  The moment when Stewart holds Novak in his arms, looks around seeing the Spanish mission...powerful stuff IMO.  I think a big draw for the film is Hermann's score.  He's an amazing composer.

I've thought of resurrecting the old soundtrack thread, and if I did, I'd definitely have Bernard Hermann as one of my favorite movie composers of all time.

Something occurs to me...I love how Q2 has implied that Anakin died and that Vader is just another Emperor henchman in an effort to preserve the surprise.  But there is still a single problematic line with all efforts at preserving the surprise in any PT edit: Obi-wan says in ANH that Vader was a pupil of his until he turned to evil, and thereafter helped hunt down all the Jedi.  We never see another Obi-wan pupil, and he goes into isolation at the end of ROTS.  Meanwhile, it's obvious that events have already been set in motion and that the Emperor is on the way to destroy all the Jedi.  From a fan edit perspective, can anyone think of a way to imply that Obi-wan might have another apprentice who might have been the one to become Vader?

Okay, here is the final script. It does not exactly reflect the final vote, but respects it in many cases. It's honestly just how I'd like the movie to be. All comments in blue text are the most recent comments, if you just wanted to skim to note the changes since the last.

http://www.4shared.com/office/HENqQbQa/Editing_guide_newest.html?

I will no longer take any leadership in this project, should anyone ever wish to resurrect it. I'll never have the skills to make it a reality, nor the money, nor the time to coordinate, nor the ability to motivate others to do it for me. If anything should ever spin off from this discussion, I'm sure I'd love to give opinions, but that is all. Again, I've enjoyed it, but I can't do it. All I can do is dream. You guys are a great bunch.

EDIT: I forgot to fix one part of the script, but it's not terribly important.  I included an earlier scene from "Coruscant/Had Abbadon," but I included a picture and description from Ronster's edit.  He took a shot from Priest, added an Imperial symbol so it looks like Imperial Palace, and called it Coruscant.  One of his most brilliant visuals, and I decided to include the rough scene he gave us.  But later during the celebrations, Coruscant looks a lot lighter.  We could just say it's part of everything looking better, new day, happier times, ponies and rainbows, and really other than the lighting, it's not terribly inconsistent.  But I probably would suggest darkening the scene a tad to make it a better match, as if Coruscant has fallen into disrepair since the Empire superceded the Republic.

Thanks for the kind words and the anticipation over the script. There's really not even going to be a whole lot of changes, but I'm fine-tuning a couple of ideas.  As I've said before, it takes longer than you might think to make adjustments and think it out.  But I'm nearly done, so I'll put it up in the next few hours.  I'm in class right now, so I can't really work on it at the moment, but I'll get it up soon.  Then I'll put all the links in my sig.  Just reviewing this makes me wish that it would all work out someday.

In the same vein:

While all the generic bad guys go down with a blow or two, the uniquely large and powerful guy takes quite a bit more and could inf fact defeat you in a single blow.  But to satisfy his pride, he'll toy with you till you can find a vulnerability.

Bad guys are surprisingly courteous.

You know, when you die in the next year or two, your jokes will cease.  That's the biggest draw to this site after all.  Please check yourself into a nursing home so you can keep me here as long as possible.

Yes indeed.  They look very promising, and while not all the effects are great, many of them are surprisingly good.  Hopefully these folks finish their work one day.

I loved this thread.  I loved this idea.  In a sense, I've given up on it.  In another sense, I hope to see it come to pass.  In any case, I feel it wasn't a waste.  Let me tell you why:

I think there are two primary successes to be had from this thread:

1) There is great interest in a collaborative project.  Many people working together could surely get a great deal done.  It could get done faster, and it could be more thorough and radical.  I know that Adywan and others have some collaboration in their work, but I think this could be taken even further with marvelous potential.

2) Return of the Jedi is a good film (IMO) regardless of whatever silliness doesn't appeal to others.  but together, through discussion and debate, we've created an interesting potential edit, with many other ideas floating around that could be utilized, even if they're not in the script drafts I put out.  Many fascinating thoughts were stated.  The people here are brilliant at coming up with ideas.

I appreciate all the work others put into it.  I really did enjoy watching videos like Johannus's trailer and Ronster's concept film.  I like the mockup pictures and aalenfae's Anakin force ghost ending.  There is so much to love about this project, as much of a failure as it may seem in the end.  I never wanted to lead this project anyway.  I merely wanted to inspire others to do it.  I have a few more thoughts regarding its future:

1) I am finishing the script, somewhat based on the last vote, but admittedly taking a few liberties and changes.  Some things just don't work for me.  All the details you guys needed has been included, including the last vote.  I will upload my final script very soon, because I really am working on it, and not merely saying that I'll get around to it.

2) I will post that and several links into my signature.  My signature will be around even after I've lost interest in this site.  Hopefully some future editor will find my script, your videos and mockups, this thread full of so many ideas.  Hopefully that editor will be inspired but what he sees, and will make many of our ideas come to life.  I have my doubts that Adywan is interested in the direction we took with many of these ideas, but perhaps even he might get some inspiration out of it.

3) There are two fan films out there that have a lot of potential for us: SW:THX and Tydirium (too lazy to find trailers right now).  THX appears to still be at least semi-active, and Tydirium's site indicated perhaps it is restarting work.  If either of these is ever completed, they offer great footage that could be wonderful for our edit.  I'm watching Daneditor's work on his unreleased ROTJ edit (he made an edit that he released on FE.org, but this one is more experimental).  He uses various lower-quality clips from numerous sources, and to surprising effect.  Just imagining how it could look with a better source from a completed fan film makes me excited.  Hopefully these see the light of day, and then editors will have much more to work with.

At the end of the day, I still love this film, and hope to see a completed, wonderful edit.  Who knows when that will be, but I believe something great can come of it.  Thanks to everyone who worked on it with me.  You were a good bunch.

Everyone has a real life.  We await patiently, but understand delays.  Good luck in your move.

muddyknees2000 said:

I've had a few thoughts on how to NOT kill off Padme AND keep the mystery of Vader's identity until EP V, AND keep the awesome funeral scene in ROTS. BUT before I lay them out here I'd just like to preface this by stating that this is NOT Ady's plan, its just a hypothetical reorganizing of scenes I've come up with. I don't know Ady's full plan for this yet....we're concentrated on ESB right now.

Ok, so, start with the Anakin VS Obi duel as usual. Obi wins, and leaves Anakin to burn. Cut the scenes of the emperor finding the torso formerly known as Anakin (perhaps leave his arrival in, but leave it ambiguous that Anakin is still alive) (or make strong suggestions that he is not...perhaps have Palpy just stand there looking dissapointed with what he sees)

Cut to a secondary plot line, shot, or scene (can you tell I don't remember the film much?)

Next you either have the birth, or the funeral.....if desired, one could skip the birth entirely...leaving even more secrecy and shock value to the later revelation that Luke & Leia are bro & sis. If the birth IS shown, then obviously cut out the death references.

Cut to more secondary stuff (this is just to allow for passage of time in the viewer's mind)

Now the funeral (and here it gets more complicated). The levitating bed with Padme's body on it would need to be reshot and re-inserted into the shots of it traveling down the walkway. Instead of Padme's body on the floating gurney, have some Jedi robes, possibly resembling Anakin's...or just a standard, more ceremonial, Jedi robe, and Anakin's lightsaber laying on top of it. Film a body double for Natalie Portman walking slowly behind the floaty body carrier thing and just overlay some appropriate Padme face...perhaps even her face from her funeral scene...tilted down, following solemly behind the robes and lightsaber of her dead lover. A tear could be animated running down her face (and this would be the last time we see her, leading very well (I think) into Leia's reference to her mother being sad). As for the lightsaber, you can either insert a shot of Obi picking it up, or leave it to the imagination because we clearly know that he does so as he later gifts it to Luke. Additionally this scene could either be left on Naboo (Anakin had no ties to his home planet after his mother died), OR could be moved to Coruscant...maybe more of a Jedi temple kind of setting or some such....

At some later point one could then show the knighting ceremony of Vader....who at this point would just be another random apprentice (as Palpy has had several already (though I would suggest removing Grievous as he's just bloody terrible....how you decide to replace Christopher Lee with a coughing CG robot is just a complete mystery to me). I don't have access to it at the moment, but I've posted the photo several times of Vader down on one knee, and Palpy force lifting Vader's helmet down onto his head. Personally I run the scene in my head with no real sound, only music...perhaps a muffled "Rise my new apprentice" line thrown into the background just to really sell the idea that this is just apprentice #whatever.

So theres the bulk of my idea. Obviously the scenes would need to be reordered in the film so that this all makes sense...but I think it would be easily achievable with little trouble...even the more difficult scenes are quite short, thereby requiring some greater work, but not much of it.

I think it's a worthy idea.  I too would like some way to work in the shot that you suggest with the knighting of Vader.  Probably the biggest problem I see is that people would be too confused without any other reference to whoever this new guy is.  Somehow there would need to be allusions throughout the film that Palpatine may even have a backup apprentice, just in case.

zombie84 said:

I read Ender's Game in 1996 and it's probably my favourite novel of all time. I read Speaker for the Dead and thought it was really weird and slow, and not like Ender's Game at all, but once I was older I learned to appreciate it a lot more. It's odder and deals with themes and ideas more than the slightly more visceral and character-oriented first book, but together they complement each other in a unique way, and I appreciate the original and surprising direction it went in. After the third book I lost interest but I read Ender's Shadow out of curiosity. I remember liking it but to be honest it had been a while since I read Ender's Game so any inconsistencies didn't stand out to me, I kind of just took it on its own.

The film version has worried me since day one. David Fincher was attached at some point, which I thought would have been interesting. I remember thinking it would be a good movie when I was first reading it but also remember thinking how in the hell someone would pull it off. It required a relatively big budget and someone who could do effects and action, but it's first and foremost a psychological character study that required an expert director, plus it needed an A+ cast who were also ten year olds, which you almost never see. Add to that the adult nature of some of the scenes, and the R-rated level of gruesomeness with the Giant subplot, and I just couldn't figure out how one would make a faithful, intelligent and entertaining adaptation. I still can't. In some ways it would probably be best suited as an anime mini-series.

Gavin Hood is a good director, as I loved his film Tsotsi. A really underrated little gem. But then he made Wolverine and I lost all confidence in him. That film was a bona fide disaster, partly because of studio interference but ultimately the fault rests with him. Just badly written, little drama, weak performances, badly done action scenes, really watered down violence and conflict, etc. So if that's what he does with a studio film I'm definitely not having good feelings about him in the drivers seat for Enders Game. Especially when you consider the "hard" content of some parts of Ender's Game, I have this sinking feeling that a lot of the book will be watered down. That's why I couldn't figure out how they would make this when I was reading it in the 1990s: it's just slightly too hard for a PG-13, but making it R-rated might also be a bit unjustified considering it's a film about kids and really isn't that obscene or anything and it needs to make money too, yet cutting it for PG-13 would water it down just enough to take that little bizarre magic out that made the book so compelling. Speaker for the Dead was the same way, too weird to be PG-13 if you want to be totally faithful, but it would seem a bit odd to release it as an R, as I imagine a lot of people would be saying "why is this R?" and then blame the rating when it doens't make much money.

But maybe it will work. I definitely want to see it, whether it's good or bad. I have a feeling though that this will be one of those films where lovers of the book will continue to be lovers of the book and tell everyone who sees the film to read the original instead. It just seems like it can't not go that.

But Asa Butterfield is pretty much the best person for the role, Harrison Ford is in it, and Gavin Hood knows how to get good performances under the right circumstances. It really rests on the screenplay. Hood's writing it, and he wrote Tsotsi, so maybe this will be one of those rare slam dunks. It really depends on how much freedom the studio is giving him.

I have some worries about the film as well, mostly centered around character development.  So much of the story is internal, it could be difficult to tell the tale without some Lynch/Dune-style internal dialogue (which I abhor, by the way).  However, I listened to Card's comments on Ender's Shadow, and the idea of expanding Bean's character led him to believe he could develop the characters through dialogue between these too brilliant boys; Shadow made a film possible in his mind.  My other big worry is that portrayal.  I find Ender to be so much more interesting than Bean, and in many ways I'm aggravated that Bean is supposed to be smarter than him.  As for directors, I haven't developed a personal opinion, as I've not paid enough attention to ascribe anything I love or hate to him.  I just hope he does do the film justice; I hate it when a wonderful book becomes a mediocre film (again, Dune comes to mind).