crissrudd4554

I sense a disturbance in this thread

Here's a change I don't see anyone take note of. Anyone notice in the SE for ESB the breathing of 'Vader' is changed in the cave? I assume it was done to hint that it's not the actual Vader but I think that sorta ruins it in a way. It loses that whole 'How did Vader get to Dagobah?' vibe before the scenes twist ending is revealed. I don't know. Just my thought.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said: Actually you don't get it... it has nothing to do with whether the changes are "bad" or "good".  And it's not about what any of us want.  It's about preserving art and cultural history.  That means all versions of the movies, especially the originals that won all those Academy awards.

 THANK YOU!

Step by step to a galaxy far, far away 

Danfun128 said:I said I like some of the SE changes. I never said I supported Greedo Shooting First, or Jedi Rocks, or Hayden Christenson as Anakin's Force Ghost, or Vaders arrival to the Executor in ESB...

I admit that I am a fan of semi-specialized edits. That being said, I have never supported how Lucas ignored the OUT. The fact that the OUT has the potential to go 4k or higher if the negatives could be found without SE elements doesn't help matters. (The 97se is a mixture of original footage and 2k edits. The 2004se was made by scanning the 97se film. This means that some scenes have been edited by a computer twice. Hence one of the reasons I think an official SE and Semi-Specialized SE should be built from the ground up.) I wouldn't be surprised if there are other members of the forums that care about the SE more than I do. Like you said, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

 You make very good points and I agree with a lot of what you said. Lucas ignoring the OUT is disgraceful. Now me personally I wouldn't mind any of the SE's as long as the original is there with it. I just can't buy into Lucas' claim that there can be only one version especially when keeps changing from release to release. Steven Spielberg specifically told Universal when they released E.T. on DVD for the first time that it must contain both the original and newly enhanced versions. Ridley Scott released a box set with a bunch of versions of Blade Runner including a workprint version. I'm sure there's dozens of other examples but right there is two directors who clearly don't mind the idea of more than one version of their film(s) circulating together. Now if there was to be a new SW set I'd say either it be the original with the '97 SE or a newly done SE. Even I wouldn't object to that. I admit there's certain changes I don't mind. Removing matte lines, lightsaber adjustments (when done right), maybe some of the new CGI battle sequences. But others I completely oppose. Greedo shooting first, Jedi Rocks, stupid CGI Ronto in Mos Eisley, Vaders 'NOOO'. But I'm willing to live with all that as long as the original is still coupled with it.

Also Danfun128 no need to do this :p so many times. We get it. You're a SE fan who wants more work done to the film's. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I wasn't signaling anyone out. I'm just saying I know how people are. This was not me going 'these fans are right, these fans are wrong'. I'm just saying regardless of what goes down latter there will be a crowd of unhappy people. Lord there will probably be people who go 'the originals are coming back? ugh the SE's were way better.' You say things like the CGI in Mos Eisley is important to you as I'm sure there's probably others like yourself who feel the same. For people like myself it's not important. I say movies are movies and they should just exist as they are. Why change something that's practically a piece of history? But that's my opinion. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong just like I'm saying you're not right or wrong.

Either way even if it is released, two days later there will be a thread here with someone going 'I have taken the new BluRay of the OOT and color corrected, and put the Fox logo back, etc.' It's practically impossible to please even those who pretty much got their wish. I guess it'll be like 2006 all over again.

If I had to pick I'd want a remastered OOT and a remastered '97 SE. Then again you get the fans who go 'I like the '04/'11 version!' or 'I wanted a new SE version that fixed stuff that was messed up before'. George Lucas what have you done to us??

In all fairness there is no answer to this debate since its impossible to make everyone happy. A rerelease of OOT is only gonna be met with open arms by the fans who want it but anger SE edition fans. As far as the OOT are not being profitable, why should we care if Disney releases it hence why does this topic exist??

imperialscum said:

Well I am afraid releasing OOT is just far less profitable compared to doing other stuff (new films, books, games etc.)

What are you saying?? I don't even own a BluRay player but if owning one would be the only official way to watch a remastered OOT I would buy one in an instant!!

I believe so then again I never owned a Laserdisc player. Either VHS or DVD.

There's preview videos on the Star Wars YouTube page of the bonus content with the digital release.

I guess this answers this debate, or does it?? Anyways someone shared this in another thread.

That and also I'm nostalgic. The '95 set was the first set of SW videos I ever owned so I guess I gotta a special place for it. I love the 'One Last Time' commercial and the Leonard Maltin interview with Lucas.

I believe I posted here before but anyways here's my list. Theres many various versions of the film's I own but im only gonna focus on the ones I usually watch. I do not own a BluRay player so I'm out on those.

TPM: Official DVD

AOTC: Official DVD

ROTS: Official DVD

ANH: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy

TESB: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy

ROTJ: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy

One thing I’m confused about was Obi-Wan’s claim of haven’t been called Obi-Wan since before Luke was born yet he was definitely known as Obi-Wan for all of ROTS. I know the original poster of this thread wanted to keep the prequels out of this but thought I’d mention that. I guess it’s no more confusing then Obi-Wan claiming Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber.

Handman said: Heck, the only two I consider historically important are the originals and the '97 SEs (or in Star Wars' case, the '77, '81, and '97 cuts). The '04 and '11 cuts are virtually identical, only seen in a home video release, and does anyone even want those?

 I agree. The original and '97 versions are historically significant for different reasons. The original was a complete game changer. No films prior had any visual effects or story telling of that level and thats why I feel it is disgraceful that Lucas wants to destroy these versions regardless of how out of date the effects are or how it doesn't represent his 'vision'. The '97 versions were huge because of nostalgia. There was nothing really groundbreaking about it. It was more a case of history repeating itself. People got to see the films again on the big screen. As far as the effects nothing was really groundbreaking because the CGI used in them had already existed for a few years. The public was familiar with it. Not to mention unlike those who saw the originals where the effects completely blew everyone away, you now had a legion of fans who scoffed at these newer effects plaguing the movies they had come to love. Now the Special Editions have there followers and thats fine. Some are in agreeance that enhancing something from the past with something from today improves the movie. Me personally I only somewhat agree with that. I'm fine if its just an alternative to the original. When its designed to replace the original I cant agree with that. I just cant. So as you said I'd be thrilled to have a set with two or more versions of the movie just like Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner.

I know it's kinda late in this discussion but after skimming through much of this thread here's what I've got to say. I didn't buy the BluRays so why would I buy this? I'm not particularly thrilled hearing the Fox logos have been cut from the front of the film's aside from ANH. Seeing those opening Fox logos is as much a part of seeing SW as anything. But I get why it was done. Hopefully Disney and Fox will reach a deal in the future to restore those logos but I won't hold my breath. As far as the new theme that accompanies the Lucasfilm logo I'm not particularly thrilled with it and hopefully it's temporary. I thought the recut version the gentleman who cut it in five minutes posted before was actually better. Well done. Me personally though I'm gonna have to agree with the one guy who said there should be no music accompanying the logo. If the Fox logo is gone what's the need for the music? There was no music that accompanied the Lucasfilm logo at the beginning of Indy 4 so why the need for music now? Again that's just me. As far as TFA I had mixed feelings when it was first announced. I kinda felt it was pointless when it was first announced. I felt we really got the bulk of the story with 1-6. Why the need for more? Fast forward three years my opinion of it is more open and I'll definitely see it. My initial judgement over a new film which I still slightly hold was more out of the feeling of the stories completion not so much of Lucas' excessive changes to the saga. In regards to the latter I feel once it's done its done. SW is a 1977 film, ESB is a 1980 film, ROTJ is a 1983 film plain and simple. Leave it that way and I only pray that justice will be served to these iconic films some day.

I figured I'd do this for fun. Here I have a few Lightsaber shots from a few VHS copies and 2006 DVD aka GOUT of ANH. First is a shot I always get a kick out of when I watch the pre-1995 NTSC Pan and Scan VHS versions of ANH. It's the shot of Ben in the cantina holding up his lightsaber. As you can see its extremely washed out, hardly a hint of blue. If you squint you may be able to detect a hint of blue but not much.

Next is Luke's saber in Ben's hut. First shot is from the 1992 VHS which print is virtually if not completely identical to the VHS prints before it. Here his saber looks blue with a slight hint of green. Second is the 1992 Letterboxed VHS which as you can see although its a bit bright looks more greenish compared to the P&S version. Third is the 1995 Pan and Scan VHS which uses the same print used for the 1993 and 1995 Widescreen Laserdisc and GOUT. Here much like the '92 VHS it is blue with a hint of green, giving almost a teal look to it. Last is GOUT which as you can see the green tint is gone for the most part.

Last are three shots of Obi-Wan during his duel with Vader. First is from the '92 VHS, second from '95 VHS, third from GOUT. Mostly here I wanted to show how the blades look somewhat thinner in the pre-95 releases compared to the latter versions. As you can see below Ben's saber looks a bit thinner in the first image compared to the last two. You can even spot this in the above shots I posted of Luke.

imperialscum said:

slask said:

As for Christensen, why should they change it back?

Because I don't like it.

 Also it makes no sense. Lucas claims he did it because thats the way Anakin appeared when he 'died' as in assumed the identity of Darth Vader and Anakin was no more. But Anakin had redeemed himself when he died and was once again a good man. If Jedi's are suppose to take on the form they were in when they 'died' it would make sense for Anakin to appear old. The old Anakin represents the redeemed Anakin Skywalker, the Anakin who did indeed bring balance to the force by destroying Palpatine.

skyjedi2005 said:

But it is pretty much clear as day a fact at least to me, as long as the original movies no longer exists.  I would not have a problem with the special edition if it did not replace the real films i grew up with.

Lucas is of the opinion that allowing choice is bad and that multiple versions should not compete with each other, not based on his words but based on his actions.

Ridley Scott had a final definitive vision of blade runner but it did not stop him and the studio from releasing the other versions of that film.

 True. Lucas even tries contradicting his quote from the '80's of how films should be preserved. He now words it that its wrong for people who were not involved with the making of the film to get to get their hands on classic films and make changes. Lucas feels that should be the directors choice which is why he's moved forward on continually changing his films. Do I agree with it personally? Yes and no. Directors I agree should have a say in how films are going to be presented on future releases. Spielberg said a few years ago he is not making any further changes to his films. It'd be a shame that after he's gone and cant control what happens to his films that studios are now getting their hands on it, adding CGI in Jaws, removing the guns again in ET, ect. Regardless of if it enhances the films for better or worse, my vote would be worse, its an insult to Spielberg's choice to leave his films untouched. Now do I think George has no right to do what he does? No. Its his films so he can do what he wants. But rewriting history and pretending that there's only one definitive version when he keeps making changes anyway I disagree with. And as far as him updating to match his 'vision', that claim is getting old. The fact he wants to make changes to connect with the prequels shows he's going against his original vision. And frankly some of the recent changes are ridiculous. Vader saying 'noooo', Obi-Wan's 'call', the dug in Jabba's palace, Jabba's new palace door.

I agree. I don't mind the 'do it cause we cans' to an extent. I don't mind if it's to give an alternate spin on what could have been but when it's done to replace a part of history is when I draw the line. As long as the original product is still available to the public I don't mind changes to any film. But if it's the case of it replacing the original like it is with Star Wars I won't have that. It's an insult to the fans and those who helped make the original into the groundbreaking saga it was.

Well I prefer things left unchanged but I do have certain exceptions. Cleaning out dirt and color correcting the image so it looks as good if not better than it was in first run? Fine. The actual film itself was not changed. Remastering the original sound elements so the music, dialogue, and sound effects sound as good if not better in first run? Fine. The sound itself was not changed. Digitally removing or enhancing a scene with CGI elements to ‘improve’ the scene? No. Rerecording or replacing portions of the audio with either rerecorded or unused pieces to ‘enhance’ the sound? No. So in regards to the Special Editions, I am not a huge fan of them. However, I respect Lucas’ choice in doing them. Its his methods of rewriting history by saying ‘the original doesn’t exist anymore’, he wants the originals destroyed, and the Special Edition is ‘the’ version that will only exist that I am unhappy with. If he would package the two together so everyone if not most people would be happy there would be no need to fuss. Yes he says he feels its the ‘director’s prerogative’ to enhance their films but he must understand that once upon a time a version of Star Wars was completed with the technology given at the time and released to worldwide acclaim. He also must remember there’s a big fanbase that prefers these versions. Now me, I say Lucas can do what he wants to his films but his not making the originals unavailable anymore is just wrong. This is strictly opinion of course.

Luke's lightsaber in the first scene in Ben's hut always had a greenish blue look to me in some prints (pre-1993 video prints at least) while it always looked more white to me in the Falcon scene. Also any notice Obi-Wan's saber looking white in the cantina scene in the pre-1993 video releases??