If I had to pick I'd want a remastered OOT and a remastered '97 SE. Then again you get the fans who go 'I like the '04/'11 version!' or 'I wanted a new SE version that fixed stuff that was messed up before'. George Lucas what have you done to us??
In all fairness there is no answer to this debate since its impossible to make everyone happy. A rerelease of OOT is only gonna be met with open arms by the fans who want it but anger SE edition fans. As far as the OOT are not being profitable, why should we care if Disney releases it hence why does this topic exist??
imperialscum said:
Well I am afraid releasing OOT is just far less profitable compared to doing other stuff (new films, books, games etc.)
What are you saying?? I don't even own a BluRay player but if owning one would be the only official way to watch a remastered OOT I would buy one in an instant!!
I believe so then again I never owned a Laserdisc player. Either VHS or DVD.
There's preview videos on the Star Wars YouTube page of the bonus content with the digital release.
I guess this answers this debate, or does it?? Anyways someone shared this in another thread.
That and also I'm nostalgic. The '95 set was the first set of SW videos I ever owned so I guess I gotta a special place for it. I love the 'One Last Time' commercial and the Leonard Maltin interview with Lucas.
I believe I posted here before but anyways here's my list. Theres many various versions of the film's I own but im only gonna focus on the ones I usually watch. I do not own a BluRay player so I'm out on those.
TPM: Official DVD
AOTC: Official DVD
ROTS: Official DVD
ANH: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy
TESB: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy
ROTJ: 1992 VHS, 1995 VHS, 2006 DVD (GOUT), Harmy
One thing I’m confused about was Obi-Wan’s claim of haven’t been called Obi-Wan since before Luke was born yet he was definitely known as Obi-Wan for all of ROTS. I know the original poster of this thread wanted to keep the prequels out of this but thought I’d mention that. I guess it’s no more confusing then Obi-Wan claiming Anakin wanted Luke to have his lightsaber.
Handman said: Heck, the only two I consider historically important are the originals and the '97 SEs (or in Star Wars' case, the '77, '81, and '97 cuts). The '04 and '11 cuts are virtually identical, only seen in a home video release, and does anyone even want those?
I agree. The original and '97 versions are historically significant for different reasons. The original was a complete game changer. No films prior had any visual effects or story telling of that level and thats why I feel it is disgraceful that Lucas wants to destroy these versions regardless of how out of date the effects are or how it doesn't represent his 'vision'. The '97 versions were huge because of nostalgia. There was nothing really groundbreaking about it. It was more a case of history repeating itself. People got to see the films again on the big screen. As far as the effects nothing was really groundbreaking because the CGI used in them had already existed for a few years. The public was familiar with it. Not to mention unlike those who saw the originals where the effects completely blew everyone away, you now had a legion of fans who scoffed at these newer effects plaguing the movies they had come to love. Now the Special Editions have there followers and thats fine. Some are in agreeance that enhancing something from the past with something from today improves the movie. Me personally I only somewhat agree with that. I'm fine if its just an alternative to the original. When its designed to replace the original I cant agree with that. I just cant. So as you said I'd be thrilled to have a set with two or more versions of the movie just like Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner.
I know it's kinda late in this discussion but after skimming through much of this thread here's what I've got to say. I didn't buy the BluRays so why would I buy this? I'm not particularly thrilled hearing the Fox logos have been cut from the front of the film's aside from ANH. Seeing those opening Fox logos is as much a part of seeing SW as anything. But I get why it was done. Hopefully Disney and Fox will reach a deal in the future to restore those logos but I won't hold my breath. As far as the new theme that accompanies the Lucasfilm logo I'm not particularly thrilled with it and hopefully it's temporary. I thought the recut version the gentleman who cut it in five minutes posted before was actually better. Well done. Me personally though I'm gonna have to agree with the one guy who said there should be no music accompanying the logo. If the Fox logo is gone what's the need for the music? There was no music that accompanied the Lucasfilm logo at the beginning of Indy 4 so why the need for music now? Again that's just me. As far as TFA I had mixed feelings when it was first announced. I kinda felt it was pointless when it was first announced. I felt we really got the bulk of the story with 1-6. Why the need for more? Fast forward three years my opinion of it is more open and I'll definitely see it. My initial judgement over a new film which I still slightly hold was more out of the feeling of the stories completion not so much of Lucas' excessive changes to the saga. In regards to the latter I feel once it's done its done. SW is a 1977 film, ESB is a 1980 film, ROTJ is a 1983 film plain and simple. Leave it that way and I only pray that justice will be served to these iconic films some day.
I figured I'd do this for fun. Here I have a few Lightsaber shots from a few VHS copies and 2006 DVD aka GOUT of ANH. First is a shot I always get a kick out of when I watch the pre-1995 NTSC Pan and Scan VHS versions of ANH. It's the shot of Ben in the cantina holding up his lightsaber. As you can see its extremely washed out, hardly a hint of blue. If you squint you may be able to detect a hint of blue but not much.
Next is Luke's saber in Ben's hut. First shot is from the 1992 VHS which print is virtually if not completely identical to the VHS prints before it. Here his saber looks blue with a slight hint of green. Second is the 1992 Letterboxed VHS which as you can see although its a bit bright looks more greenish compared to the P&S version. Third is the 1995 Pan and Scan VHS which uses the same print used for the 1993 and 1995 Widescreen Laserdisc and GOUT. Here much like the '92 VHS it is blue with a hint of green, giving almost a teal look to it. Last is GOUT which as you can see the green tint is gone for the most part.
Last are three shots of Obi-Wan during his duel with Vader. First is from the '92 VHS, second from '95 VHS, third from GOUT. Mostly here I wanted to show how the blades look somewhat thinner in the pre-95 releases compared to the latter versions. As you can see below Ben's saber looks a bit thinner in the first image compared to the last two. You can even spot this in the above shots I posted of Luke.
imperialscum said:
slask said:
As for Christensen, why should they change it back?
Because I don't like it.
Also it makes no sense. Lucas claims he did it because thats the way Anakin appeared when he 'died' as in assumed the identity of Darth Vader and Anakin was no more. But Anakin had redeemed himself when he died and was once again a good man. If Jedi's are suppose to take on the form they were in when they 'died' it would make sense for Anakin to appear old. The old Anakin represents the redeemed Anakin Skywalker, the Anakin who did indeed bring balance to the force by destroying Palpatine.
skyjedi2005 said:
But it is pretty much clear as day a fact at least to me, as long as the original movies no longer exists. I would not have a problem with the special edition if it did not replace the real films i grew up with.
Lucas is of the opinion that allowing choice is bad and that multiple versions should not compete with each other, not based on his words but based on his actions.
Ridley Scott had a final definitive vision of blade runner but it did not stop him and the studio from releasing the other versions of that film.
True. Lucas even tries contradicting his quote from the '80's of how films should be preserved. He now words it that its wrong for people who were not involved with the making of the film to get to get their hands on classic films and make changes. Lucas feels that should be the directors choice which is why he's moved forward on continually changing his films. Do I agree with it personally? Yes and no. Directors I agree should have a say in how films are going to be presented on future releases. Spielberg said a few years ago he is not making any further changes to his films. It'd be a shame that after he's gone and cant control what happens to his films that studios are now getting their hands on it, adding CGI in Jaws, removing the guns again in ET, ect. Regardless of if it enhances the films for better or worse, my vote would be worse, its an insult to Spielberg's choice to leave his films untouched. Now do I think George has no right to do what he does? No. Its his films so he can do what he wants. But rewriting history and pretending that there's only one definitive version when he keeps making changes anyway I disagree with. And as far as him updating to match his 'vision', that claim is getting old. The fact he wants to make changes to connect with the prequels shows he's going against his original vision. And frankly some of the recent changes are ridiculous. Vader saying 'noooo', Obi-Wan's 'call', the dug in Jabba's palace, Jabba's new palace door.
I agree. I don't mind the 'do it cause we cans' to an extent. I don't mind if it's to give an alternate spin on what could have been but when it's done to replace a part of history is when I draw the line. As long as the original product is still available to the public I don't mind changes to any film. But if it's the case of it replacing the original like it is with Star Wars I won't have that. It's an insult to the fans and those who helped make the original into the groundbreaking saga it was.
Well I prefer things left unchanged but I do have certain exceptions. Cleaning out dirt and color correcting the image so it looks as good if not better than it was in first run? Fine. The actual film itself was not changed. Remastering the original sound elements so the music, dialogue, and sound effects sound as good if not better in first run? Fine. The sound itself was not changed. Digitally removing or enhancing a scene with CGI elements to ‘improve’ the scene? No. Rerecording or replacing portions of the audio with either rerecorded or unused pieces to ‘enhance’ the sound? No. So in regards to the Special Editions, I am not a huge fan of them. However, I respect Lucas’ choice in doing them. Its his methods of rewriting history by saying ‘the original doesn’t exist anymore’, he wants the originals destroyed, and the Special Edition is ‘the’ version that will only exist that I am unhappy with. If he would package the two together so everyone if not most people would be happy there would be no need to fuss. Yes he says he feels its the ‘director’s prerogative’ to enhance their films but he must understand that once upon a time a version of Star Wars was completed with the technology given at the time and released to worldwide acclaim. He also must remember there’s a big fanbase that prefers these versions. Now me, I say Lucas can do what he wants to his films but his not making the originals unavailable anymore is just wrong. This is strictly opinion of course.
Luke's lightsaber in the first scene in Ben's hut always had a greenish blue look to me in some prints (pre-1993 video prints at least) while it always looked more white to me in the Falcon scene. Also any notice Obi-Wan's saber looking white in the cantina scene in the pre-1993 video releases??
While I am a purist that prefer things left alone I'll give a few examples that I could 'live with'. Matte line removal (blends objects into the scenery better), Lightsaber adjustments (when done right), and I suppose the updated Landspeeder. Sorry if this is a short list for you Special Edition fans, there's not much that was done that really made me feel it improved the films. Thats strictly my opinion of course. Expanding Mos Eisley and Cloud City is nice but also I feel its more of a 'do it because we can' as opposed to 'do it because we should'. I feel that especially with the changes they made in 2011 like the pointless rocks they added in front of R2-D2, expansion of the front gate to Jabba's palace, or Vader's 'NOOOO'.
I also have the 'Five Star Collection' DVDs of the '97 SE's and the timing on that from what I can see seems identical to the '04 DVDs.
Quick question Harmy and if this was mentioned earlier I apologize. I noticed on your ReSpecialized version that the timing of the Fox and Lucasfilm logos is different than the way it was on the VHS and (I'm assuming) Laserdisc of the '97 SE. Was this intentional? Is the way you have it the way it actually appeared when shown in theaters in '97? Just asking. Another awesome piece of work you've reconstructed!
I was able to successfully burn the DeSpecialized version of Star Wars to DVD about a week ago with the various audio tracks. Quality was a tad reduced but not too bad. Still looks excellent and better than GOUT! Just wanna give a big thumbs up to Harmy and those who contributed for the hard work into putting this DeSpecialized version together. Keep up the good work guys!
captainsolo said:
As I understood it, Uni was too cheap to pay music licensing and would re-score source cues and potentially remix the audio. The 1995 signature LD restored the original music and should be the original mono in PCM. I figured the DVD was a lossy port of this, and the BD a slightly higher res copy.
There was a piece of music that was replaced in The Invisible Man in the scene where Griffin sneaks into Kemp's house and every release of the film until the BluRay and 2014 DVD had the replaced song. As a result there were a few sound effects missing from the rescored version such as the sound of the door closing as Griffin enters the house.
TServo2049 said:
(EDIT: I checked LDDB, the notes say "Top left of the jacket states: Home Video Version, Some Music Rescored." So I guess the Signature is the way to go for a PCM mono preservation. Though it would be interesting to compare the two in all other aspects...)
Here is an Amazon.com image of the 1991 Jaws VHS (I have this edition). It states 'Home Video Version Some Music Rescored'. Also is there anyone who could assist me in creating an account with MySpleen?????
Also in regards to music being rerecorded in Jaws, again I don't know much in regards to the Laserdisc but I do know that pre-1995 VHS' had a different song playing in the beach scene where the kid on the raft is killed. The original song was 'Having my Baby' by Paul Anka or at least I assume it's the original song since its been on every release from '95 onwards and there's been no mention on any of those releases of rerecorded music yet some of the tapes with the other song did.
Someone asked earlier if the mono on the Jaws BluRay is the best version of the mono. I personally don't know since I dont own a BluRay player and hence dont own the Jaws BluRay. But I did get the Jaws 2012 DVD which did have the mono. I don't know if thats the same mix as the one on the BluRay (DVD mono is Dolby, BluRay mono is DTS) but this mix is ok. Not great but doable. I think the mono mix on the 2005 DVD was slightly better. I've never owned a Laserdisc player either so I dont know how that sounds either but I would definitely like to see it synced to the BluRay footage since if its anything like the mix on the 1995 Widescreen VHS it'll be good. There were certain things that stood out in the mono mix on the VHS than the DVD mono such as the dialogue thats shouted in the scene where the shark tows the boat. Hooper's line 'It's impossible! It's impossible! The line is too tight! He's towing us!' was more clearer on the VHS. Also after Chrissie's death, they cut to Cassidy lying on the beach and a wave washes over him after which on the VHS we hear him burp. The burp is not heard on either the mono or 5.1 mixes on the DVD. So anyways I'd like to see the Laserdisc track synced to the BluRay to see how that sounds. Anyways I have a question. Does anyone have the 1987 Laserdisc for Frankenstein?? I'd like to see that synced to the BluRay. I really wasn't pleased with audio mix used on the Blu for Frankenstein. It's even missing portions of the audio such as the echo to the Monster's growl when Henry and Waldman descend the staircase to go to the cellar where they discover Fritz's death. These missing portions should be on the Laserdisc (they were on the '87 VHS). Note: the Laserdisc should have the censored version of Henry's line 'Now I know what it feels like to be GOD!' which was restored on the BluRay. I dont know if anyone wants to leave the Laserdisc audio untouched or perhaps do some editing to restore the censored line.