^ Woha!
where can I buy one of those !? :-)
Nice holidays to you all - and a merry "Life-Day"! ;-)
It all depends if you want to keep the "transformation" and "throw away" the revelation in Empire (and making Obi-Wan a liar)
or you try to cover up Anakins turn and shroud his fall with other "bad stuff" (or characters), who could end up be his "agents", until he "crashes and burns" ...
I think if we got a longer journey with Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, that would have been also a deeper punch, if Qui-Gon told OB1, what Dooku did in Episode 2 - or if Qui-Gon "turned" and we think "WTF?! - shouldn't Anakin be the Dark Lord ?"
Lucas had many chances to do a good coherent story with characters that we like and who are important, but what we got is just a bunch of "all and nothing" ...
maybe some things can be "fixed" ;-)
Not sure if we as viewers need to see the fall and turn of Anakin - maybe the focus would be better on other characters ?
it would be interesting to show more of the duality of Anakin and Obi-Wan ... the whole love affair doesn't really pay off :-/
on another note, I think the revelation of Palpatine/"Sidious" should only be in Episode III, let Dooku or Maul be the main "villain" of the other movies ...
I also thought about the "Boba Fett / Bounty Hunter" discussion from the ESB:R thread - it would be good the wipe either the name complete or just leave "Jango" (as a reference to spaghetti western), and name him only "bounty hunter" in the OT!
yeah "Team Gobots"! ;-)
Well, it circles down to Anakin being "a good man and a friend" - we need that in at least one whole movie, it is rather frustrating only to see Ani to be a warped picture of Luke ...
@shanep
one way is to bring the "Vader" into play, and create a disruption within the Jedi order - the "lost 20" story is a nice vehicle to get this through ;-)
the combination of Qui-Gon & Dooku might also work, if we have him be a mentor friend of Obi-Wan and a forshadowing of what could happend to his own pupil ...
can't remember if it was proposed here, but I think if we keep Anakin/Vader as just one person, a intersting possibilty could be that through the horrors of war, he spilt personality, and now the dark shadow is hunting and trying to kill all that is dear to Anakin (read this like a Jekyll/Hyde plot)
another point is how the "dark side" corrupts a Jedi, the "saving loved ones" isn't working for "Sith" - it should be more about personal power!
adywan said:
here is a pretty old clip that shows some of the tweaking done to that shot:
Woha!
now I cannot watch the DVD/BD ... again ever - THIS is the definite edition I want ;-)
can't wait to see the whole story unfold in it's new glory ...
ok, I just had a look, the term "Sith" and "Dark Lord" of them, is in all of the OT scripts - but it wasn't said in the movies - I wasn't sure if it showed up in one of the crawls, as it doesn't either ...
yeah, I always thought "The Sith" were a special order of "dark jedi", meaing like you proposed ben, that every Jedi can fall from grace and only the "darkest" try to find more power within old knowledge (aka Sith) ...
So if they as a group don't "walk around" in the PT, it's ok - but it would be interesting to show just how Vader became this "Dark Lord" ?
I had a long thought about Anakin and Padme ...
we have this "Vader" problem, and Haydn doesn't seem "nice" enough to be OUR hero, so either replace him or maybe better insert another "Anakin" and leave Haydn unnamed or as Vader-type pupil of Obi-Wan ...
in hindsight, even the notion of Leonardo DiCaprio as Anakin, isn't that bad anymore, seeing his later films (or Django!) - also a guy like James Franco could support the role more with just his look and play
As for Padma, main thing is that she dies at the end ... it doesn't seem right, from any point of view, better have some things offscreen, not all must be shown and told - too bad she hadn't some scenes with Bail and his family (on Alderaan), so we really should port Naboo or the idea of havning Alderaan in the prequels ...
@darklordoftech
If we have "Sith" it should be a BIG mystery, not the Jedi, not anyone in the movies should have A definite answer - they keep in the shadows and only appear from time to time!
if we leave the Sith out of the story, a question remains: why is Vader the Lord of the Sith ? (is this really mentioned in the OT ?)
Oh now I understand your vision ;-)
yep I watched the clip (are there more? because I only found one on that link ...)
the music over Weylands dialogue is a bit too loud, but the rest flows nicely, good concept!
yeah, I wasn't fond of the medbay scene either, it was too long and showed to much - it is the main problem of Prometheus, as I see it, that the movie skips from SciFi to Splatter, couldn't decide what it wanted to be ...
"The Thing" did a much better job at being SciFi/Splatter!
So what will be your approach then ?
well, I had some issues with the big screen version, but at the moment couldn't edit them out myself, maybe sometime next year I will be able to do it ...
and strangeland had some good points, moving or cutting elements, that made the good movie even better ;-)
Hope he will be around again soon ... but I am also interested in your take on things, Ringo!
but to be honest, isn't this whole "naming" thing a main reason, why the prequels are somewhat very stiff ?
in real life, as someone already said, not every person is "introduced", because this person "enters the stage" - no need to know every one per name ... heck, even some persons just give you a nick or part of their name to know!
ok, you might find it odd, but it doesn't "improve" the story or the movie, either to name or remove his from dialogue ...
and making "Darth Maul" more cool without a name could work ;-)
naming persons/things for the sake of "recognition" only, is called "fanservice", or am I mistaken?
in storytelling it always seems forced to wegde a name into a dialogue that could also work without a strange designation
As for "Boba Fett", the beauty of his "mystery" is to be nameless, like the reference (=> spurs!) - only if Solo or Lando (or Luke) had a long "relationship" with him, a name was "needed" ...
I think you got some good points here, maybe some can be included ...
as for the cracking of ice sounds, here are some examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL3EjH9-WSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eg-kK6FeRQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR_jIJe0UY8
ok, it's more of a roaring like thunder, but with some tweaking one could build some acceptable effects ;-)
Ronster said:
I thought the dish should take down an AT-ST when we first saw their inclusion but some more pronounced effect on hitting an AT-AT leg would help it look better.
hm, would be nice to have this "mini-ion cannon" firing either first on the AT-AT leg, only to show sparks/ electric discharge, and later to hit an AT-ST, which then stops in motion and falling down ;-)
or it could be a "major-laser", burning the leg/knee part and after that (or before) destroy an AT-ST like in one of the Endor scenes ...
brash_stryker said:
eccentric millionaire with own pyrotechnics yard
That would I have on my card, if I had this kind of "hobby" - and they would call me "Rico" ;-)
brash_stryker said:
VFX can work really well, with the bonus that you have more control over it.
Yes it's green fire in this one, but the principle is the same.
well, I don't know what program they use, but they surely got some experts using it ...
If in ESB:R is still like that ^, it could certainly be upgraded with some sort of hint of damage or a flash at least not to diminish the idea that the "armor is too strong", but would improve with some kind of reaction from the leg being hit.
yeah, some blackening of the leg or knee would be ok, doesn't need to be a major damage, only to show that the rebels try to bring the walkers down, and fail until they find a better strategy!
=> This
(would be like the Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru "playset" - after the Stormtroopers came for the droids, that is)
Though it is safer to make an explosion with CGI, it is not as nice looking as the real thing (maybe if you use a pro-tool and being a pro-designer to use it ...)
@ Gimpy
well, this IS the "Radical Redux" thread ... so think BIG changes, not just "minor" cuts and tweaks to what is already flawed ;-)
Most important thing is to make the Jedi for us viewers likeable - not a bunch of weird dudes sitting around and doing nothing or just wielding their sabers at mindless droids ...
secondly Anakin needs an complete overhaul.
not only to make him less "whiny" - we need him to be the friend Obi-Wan told Luke (us) about - not "from a certain point of view"
good ideas are to have the duality played out - nature VS technology, religion against non-belief (or other views) - so OB1, Yoda and Anakin should not always be on the same side, I think it would be good for them to switch sides through the trilogy, at least on time, to show their progress - towards enlightment or to darkness ...
as for Yoda, I had a long thought how we can have more story and less "stuffing" - why not start Episode 1 with a prologue like "Lord of the Rings'" did ? - show what happened in the last decades/years, not just make a text read a boring "backdrop" that didn't even play out that well!
and then when Yoda takes leave as spiritual guide for the Federation (I see him more as Ghandi or Dala Lama!), he vanishes into exile (yeah, right here, maybe to be never seen again ?)
have OB1 be a supporter of the Jedi Order, who stays behind in a kind of Switzerland / Vatican like Jedi-state on Coruscant - maybe you are right, lets have at least Jedi as ambassadors on the senate, so to speak on their spiritual behalf ;-)
Anakin is like Ob1 a loyal servant of the Republic, they are "young and restless", they don't see the dangers of the oppression yet - Ob1 will be the first to "defect" and will go into service under Bail Organa, while Alderaan was either neutral like the Jedi Order or went with the Federation, they are victims of war now ...
you say, Plapatine isn't "enough" to "control" the whole senate, well true, but he didn't do it just on "dark side" influence - ok, we could have Valorum or any other "puppet" be his "mask", even Palpatine could be a token of "Sidious" (or maybe Sifo Dyos / Plageious)
as to "why not clone limbs / organs ?) - hm, that didn't happend later in the OT either, or did it ?
Vaders armor is somewhat a tool, a weapon but a prison too - as for Grievous, well he is another kind of "monster" - better mix him with Maul and have something "cyborg" that could rival or be prototype for Vader ...
another thing is the Jedi council ... I thought hard about that and it needs to be trimmed down, say it is like a tribunal, for declaring who is to be trained or who gets promoted to master, even verdicts like when a Jedi is to be banned from the Order, that should be talked here, not "daily news" ... so I would have a forum or debate room, filled with at least a dozen Jedi from all ranks and disciplines, and HERE they decide what the council should declare as "law" - makes it more democratic and not "hokey" a we have it now (but even this "good" could go wrong!)
one point I have really trouble to wrap it up is Luke and Leia's mother - aka Padme Amidala - she is somewhat a focus of problems, but somehow we do need "her" in the story, shouldn't we figure out how the Force could "conjure" twins without a mom ;-)
yeah, combining characters CAN be useful and maybe the "solution" to some story/plot holes ...
therefore I think the Qui-Gon/Dooku hybrid is the most promising, giving many interesting possibilities, like a returning character (from the dead ?)
and again as for the Jedi as senators/chancelor - I think it is a very "dangerous" idea, why ? - because we, the audience (and possibly many people in the Star Wars Universe) don't like Jedi (as they are shown) ... so turning / bringing a Jedi into a position of power (and Yoda told us, that "real" Jedi don't look for that) is the "box of Pandorra" - antother thing only Sith (dark Jedi) would do ... so if you propose to have a "secret" Jedi in that position ok, THAT could work (if other things fall in place), but the idea of an Roman senate with Jedi in it doesn't (read Yodas teachings!)
some ideas circle around how and who starts the conflict: I think we have a handful of options ... turning the Republic into some kind of "techno union" and making the Federation a pre-(Rebel)Alliance, with many supporters from the alien community - here comes the "radical" idea: make Yoda their leader and Dooku a loyal republic arisctocrat / Jedi / noteworthy persona ...
this would help shift the Republic to Empire later, when at the beginning many (all ?) alien worlds together form the Federation, because of slavery, the massive military force (droid army) and "human/alien rights" in general - leaving behind humans in control of the galactic core (and the key players like Sienar Fleet and Kuat Drive Yards, who build weapons for both Republic and later Empire - maybe some could be "shipped" to the other sides?)
so our "Federation" would need supporting troops, as many farmers and such are not soldiers or trained in combat: enter the clones - could be volunteers or "hired guns", just produce as many to keep the droid forces of the Republic at bay, until the Federation "armies" are ready ...
and this could lead to "capture" the cloning technology (or re-installing it) as a improvement to "keep out the barbarians" - making copies of the best fighters, tacticians, name it who is most valued to lead and support the Republic Army!
Big question still remains: do we want / can have cloned Jedi ?
at the end of the day, it will be brother against brother somehow ... (cue Obi-Wan & Anakin ?)
one possible solution of how to solve the "big conflict" - one other is nearly as we have it, with many tweaks here and there, like a "moving battle/factory planet" and a Republic with a clone army of "commando troops" supporting the enlisted "volunteers"
@ Gimpy
ok, giving "Valorum" more background is one thing, but what you propose here, is to some degree the thing what we expected from Palpatine: to show the face of an "innocent" senator / politician and in reality / hiding his alterego "Sidious" ...
and "mixing" 3 different "persona" is a little too much - ok "radical", but has it that "impact" that the Prequels need ?
a possible "Master VS Apprentice" would be Dooku / Maul - if we want to keep Palps a "secret" till the end ...
I think "how the army was ordered": one person could really just happen to land on Kamino (having a BIG credit card in his pocket!) and telling them "folks" his mission is on behalf of the Republic / Jedi Order (it isn't that "papers" couldn't be forged or something) - simple as that and no more questions asked ;-)
Dooku is doing the same as Plapatine, playing "dumb" - bluffing, as with OB1, when he tried (like Vader) to convert him to his cause (here we could change Dooku to rogue Jedi ?)
one other thing is the "original" for the clone army: a bounty hunter is a "bad idea" - even if he is "bad ass" - better to get a handfull of "candidates" and turn them into a fighting force!
it was never reveiled, why no Jedi / Sith were cloned ...
point is: Jedi don't do politics - that is maybe why they fail: because they keep to themselves (for too long) - when we see it, the Order is a dying dinosaur - until the Sith / dark Jedi "kill" it and Luke later rebuilds a new one ...
Valorum being the "poor" and tragic diplomat, is rather fitting: he was the guy the Republic should have followed, but they got tangled in a web of lies and conflicts, and fear drove the galaxy to the dark side - maybe let Valorum be a victim of the assasin or a casulty of war ? - not vote him out
@ Bingo
there should be something like: back before the "Sith / Mandalorian Wars" (more background is the stuff what PT missed), there were thousands of Jedi and they could keep peace by numbers (and back then they really cared ...) - but through the times their numbers dwindled (the "balance being disturbed ?) and at the time we "start" they are a shadow of old glory - OB1 is somewhat nostalgic ?
your other points make sense ;-)
hm, but Valorum wasn't a Jedi ... the whole point was that "Sifo Dyas" should have been either Dooku or Qui-Gon, not another Jedi, we haven't seen, that is killed offscreen - make "mystery" where it is needed and remove where it is just confusing or dull.
I really dislike the concept "rule of two" - it should be more mysterious who, what and how many Sith / dark Jedi there are ... the Jedi Order doesn't have ALL the info and the things they "know" are/could be outdatet
the Sith should have "given" false data - like Palpatine did later to the Rebel Alliance ;-)
another point to take into consideration is this:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/deleted-jedi-line-redeemed-obi-653550
maybe it can be worked on - Yoda being a more strict and dictating master?
just in case someone missed the news:
at last all the production notes from the original trilogy :-)
What if Geonosis had a Vortex Generator that allowed it to travel throughout space?
I didn't want to shoot down your idea/s brash or ben - it just came out of nowhere, without more context it was a very strange thing (like some others saw it too), BUT:
in light of the more complex synopsis changing "Episode 2" and getting closer to "Hidden Fortress", it's a really cool device ;-)
ever thought, that the "machine" could be some sort of "gravity well" ?
it could explain, why there was "no" planet or whatsoever and it (with some science theory) could explain, how the "planet/oid" can travel from place to place (=> wormhole) - showing up out of "nowhere"!
I think it is important, that in the end this "technology" is destroid, because we don't see or hear about in the OT (maybe in the future if someone is willing to change the new Trilogy)
maybe it could be ancient tech from the Sith / Madalorians - I also thought, that the whole cloning thing could be a paralell to our modern world A-bombs or ABC-weapons ... that it was banned, but the means of an uncontrollable foe / conflict drove the Republic to desperate measures ...
As for Anakin VS Vader: I only found 2 possible (logical) ways to fix that bug ...
A) insert pupil "Vader", name him or not, just show he is around, he is like Anakin is now, not a friend of Obi-Wan, always "testing" him (and maybe "Ani" too) - let there be a duel between "Ani" and Vader, never show who really won, maybe let Obi-Wan know?
B) we have a very twisted soul in Anakin Skywalker, he is/was a good man (and no more boy or kid stuff!) - he is friend to OB1 and they share their part of the Clone Wars(!) - helping Bail Organa and other senators / systems ...
And here is where it gets messy: "Ani" changes through the war/s, he is getting depressed, feeling/seeing (in visions/dreams) a dark shadow looming over him - he belives it to be "death" or some sinister premonition, he doesn't quite understand - so he consults Yoda(?) - here it is like with Luke, that the future isn't static and always moving "bla bla" -.-
But it is even darker: "Ani" has some sort of "shell-shock", otherwise to OB1 he never could shake off the terrors from the battles/fights, they creep into him and there is a part, that likes it ...
hereon you could do anything, just DON'T show HOW "Ani" is turning INTO Vader, make "Vader" the shadow he should be in the PTs ;-)
the bonus? - let Palpatine be a "misguided" senator - and "Sidious" the dark shadow that sucks out life of the Republic ...
brash_stryker said:
I can never keep track of these things, but who IS Rogue 2?
the pilot list is somewhere down the link:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Hoth
The Rogues got a long history of their own - Luke founded them and Wedge took over from there ...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rogue_Squadron
FVDnz said:
Isn't Rogue 2 the guy who found Luke and Han with the Tauntaun?!
yep, he's called "Zev Senesca" - he got his own Figure and Snowspeeder made :-)
Tobar said:
There's a whole scene that takes place inside the shelter in the radio play.
omg, please no "brokeback Jedi" ... ;-P
through VHS, DVD and now BD it's also easier to find "mistakes" and bloopers that got away in the cutting room ...
too bad that other "good stuff" was cast aside - seeing the prequels as they are and what "bonus material" was on them discs :-/