brimforge

Obi-Wan's "point of view" seems Lucas "escape pod" - he told Luke "the good man, that was Anakin, has died" - so this brings two opportunities:

a) Hayden as a force-ghost, because that's what Obi-Wan said :-(

b) all bad things Vader did, are not Anakins "fault", because he was "not there" (therefore old Anakin must stay - and this man died!)

I may not be a purist, really dig the things Adywan does, but the SE and the Prequels did horrific stuff, not logical ...

but even when we accept that Anakin splitted into his Vader persona, his former self needed to be more likeable, that teenage psycho is just plain wrong!

same with "Han shot first" - I never had the impression, that Solo was "coldblooded", if one was, then it was Greedo, that green Meanie ;-)

I didn't want to sound too melodramatic, but it kind of culminates in Anakin's character - and how we as an audience see his "rise" and fall (and redemption):

Way back in the 80ties, when I was a kid, some years too young for "Return of the Jedi" (but who cared then, the other two movies had a low age rating), my buddies and me had read about this film: space ships and stuff, what could be more fun?

I had no idea of what, who, why, when, back then - just some weird aliens, a bunch of heroes, battles and Ewoks (hey, kids love teddy bears!) - and instant "love" for lightsaber fights ;-)

so I knew Vader was Luke's father before seeing "Empire", years later on VHS, but it somewhat stuck as important "turning point", similar to the "trial in the cave" ...

Fast forward about 20 years (of yearning for new movies) - Anakin's story unfolds ... and it is a creepy tale: some worship him (offscreen?), others fear(?) him, his spouse takes a mass murder of sandpeople light as a talk about weather, his "friend" and "brother" doesn't even care to deal the deathblow (maybe killing all those younglings fried Ben's heart) - then we see Vader (do we cheer or hiss here?)

Strange enough, I could accept Vader's redemption back then, when he disobeyed the Emperor and saved his son - but now it is not so easy, thinking about all that bad stuff he did, and without remorse ...

ok, maybe it looks better on paper (in small size) than on film ...

I almost suggested the "AVP" font ;-)

well, that is a discussion I better leave alone, maybe those whole politics grew over Lucas head when he wrote the script, maybe he just lost direction ...

What irritates me more is the apparent moral dilemma, caused by the Jedi (and maybe their Codex)

They should be protectors against oppression and be keepers of peace, one could argue only inside the Republic's borders, but the Force knows now boundaries!

Why is it, that they leave slaves imprisoned (for life), seperate families, forbid(?) love, even leave friends to die ... ?

That doesn't make sense to me, those are not the "noble" Jedi Knights I would love to see!

Michaeldor said:

When Lucas whas writing Ep.III he didn't remember that there're good dictatorships and bad.

PS:

and since when are there "good" dictatorships?

last time I checked, they all are somewhat inhumane ...

"small" indeed - if it was just that ;-)

Ok, what Obi-Wan, in his idealistic way, ment was that the current system, as bad as it is/was, turned into an oppression, and with Palpatine having supreme powers, no one could stop his will, so it would be a dictatorship!

Though the Jedi swear alliegance to their Order, they are the guardians (not soldiers, more like a policeforce) of the galaxy (wanted or not!)

And in contrast to conflicts against the Sith in the past, now a Sith was sitting in the middle of the Republic, not on the head of an outside Empire, to threaten peace ... yes, voted there, but not all choices are good, are they?

Anakin already took his choice, telling Padme in Episode2, that he would rather have a "strong leader" (aka dictator), than the squabbling senate (of a thousand worlds) - so he kind of said "good bye" to democracy then.

Maybe if Lucas wrote "My allegiance is to the Republic, the Order, to Freedom!", it would sound more convincing?

did another search, maybe you like them fonts - I would prefer "Alien League" as a nod to the first movie ;-)

http://ae.tutsplus.com/articles/roundup/50-free-movie-themed-fonts-you-can-download/

strangeland said:

Editing is under way and I'm a little unsatisfied with my rough ending, i wish there was just 30 more seconds of Shaw crying on the ground. 

 

hm, ever tried to loop a short sequence?

even pro's do that at times ;-)

about the clip: I really dig the opening (hehe, even the mainwindow does) - but somekind find the font a little bit plain ...

did a little search and found Spaiths script "Alien: Engineers"

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=69972

good that those rumors were not just promo for the (first) movie - and to have Noomie & Michael back on board is somewhat a positive sign (Lindeloff won't be around as far as I read ...)

so hoping to get to see more of the "engineer" culture - and more alive "giants" ;-)

from the cutscene (cropped intro) I got the notion, that there could be a religious and a military caste (or it could be all one bunch of "science-crusaders" ...) - will be interesting to see their homeworld, maybe even a glimpse of the "bigger picture" (=> "painter painting painter")

sounds interesting, I'm curious how you will end the film without the last battle ...

sure every new take on a story to improve the flow is welcomed ;-)

Johnny Ringo said:

Well, they considered doing it with the ' 426' in Roman numerals - So it would be LV IV II VI - A logo like that would be much better suited to the 'Alien' style slow reveal of the title.

Should be simple enough to mock up something like that..

nice touch, but it would read more like this: LV-CDXXVI

one could even translate the "LV" to 55 ;-)

source: http://tabelle.info/ziffern.htm

so "LV-426" is perfect indeed ;-)

hm, to bad the logo kind of looks cool, if one could remake that with the letters/numbers of the fanedit, THAT would be awesome ...

oh, that's a shame - well, I wouldn't call it "Paradise", at least that is how Ridley wants to call the next chapter (if it isn't changed by then)

any referrence to what the story was (to be) called before it stuck with "Prometheus" ?

maybe "LV-426" would fit, if we agree that this is the same planet as was in "Alien" ... I kind of like short titles, simple names ;-)

well, yes any story that kills off the "hero" is mighty brave, audience likes "happy endings" (some would say "crappy" *eg*)

maybe "Prometheus" might have benefited from it - maybe too, if the "Vickers-question" was answered - not left open ala Deckard (even when Ridley remained adamant, that he was/is a replikant)

As for continuation: I strongly believe that both Elizabeth and David are coming back (at least if both actors are available) - is it good or wise?

A nice twist could be to send another team after THEM, and not to ivestigate the "tombs" - though Weyland or Yutani (or whoever got the say) might send more guys into this system, just to knock things up, and see what creepy crawlies turn out (hm, kind of story from "Alien" ?!)

Better not show Liz&David's journey firsthand, just through "found documents" has a bit of "Blair Witch" to it ;-)

Didn't know about Ridley's motivation/s, but "Alien" hasn't THAT feeling to me - on any level - don't get me wrong it's an "AAA" movie, just doesn't give me THAT emotinal connection as "2001" (even "2010" it's not so strong anymore)

As for "shocking", some movies keep a level, some are gruesome, time tells if it stays a classic, when the first horror is gone, and only character-evolvement/story remains ...

I think what is the key to this strange "feeling" are a handfull of things: long scenes, minor dialog, brooding music - to transport the empiness of space across the moviescreen ;-)

sure, at the beginning, fast cuts from past to present, can push the transit, maybe even leave open a jump forward at the end ...

ah ok, that sounds interesting indeed, something along the line what "the corporation" had in mind with Ripley and Co. in Aliens? - if that is what the other "engineers" tried to do - otherwise maybe they had a "cure" on "Paradise" to destroy/remove the parasite ...

yes, some fine plot ideas - well, time will tell what Scott and his writers have in storage for the sequel ;-)

One thing I forgot to mention, what I found rather peculiar, while watching your edit, the beginning kind of reminded me emotionally to "2001" or "2010" - maybe with some tweaking this could be pulled off in the whole movie ...

thanks alot, maybe sunday morning cartoons were the best teachers ;-)

and working in the IT, you have to read much stuff, and grab ahold some "slang"...

but back on topic: seeing the short clip of the "slient menace" (I would really like to get that edit as a whole) my idea to bring the Jedi later on in the film, making Sidious/Nemodian/Federation-Conspiracy more effective, with given dialog - just needs some good headstart, meaing from the blockade/invasion to some plotpoints (maybe bringing Tatooine earlier into play) leading later to Coruscant with debate as to if or how intervene and then the Jedi could pose a diplomatic mission?

my plans for the prequels, when I get the chance to re-edit them, would be to cut them up into 3 about 90min movies - depending on how much stuff from bonus is available or appealing - I started to make a list on what was good and what should be thrown out last fall - after reading long, long, very long into this and other threads on the froum here ;-)

hm, I haven't read the pre-Lindelof script, but heard about the Holloway scene - don't know what to think of it...

Two "Aliens" wrecking havok would be a little crazy - on the other hand, if the engineer and the "Xeno" ran amok, only to be drawn togehter (Oops AvP!), that could have been awesome ;-)

Hope we don't have to wait another 10+ years before "part 2" comes out - I'm also very interested in Ridley's "Blade Runner 2" - need to read the books though, I got all of them, but so far only read "Do androids dream of electronic sheep" - kind of an eye opener, like all of P. K. Dick's stories, and totally different to what we got on film...

That is all correct, but the MAIN character, if whatsoever, was Luke, a farmboy (at least what we knew then ...)

on the other hand, the "toffs" where mainly the antagonists in the OT ?

if I had written the prequels, my main focus would have been Obi-Wan, it's his time and story, Anakin may be "the chosen one" but we didn't really get out the things we wanted from this "point of view" - "Ben's" background is more exciting, from what "old rumors" told, he was also of common standing (back then Owen was his brother ...)

ok, just how I would do things, not saying they are "law" or that every editor should do it the same way, it is (for me) more appealing, than to follow some "royals on their field trip", messing up the galaxy ;-)

I think you brought it into play: really like the idea ( to have a straight journey from one planet to the next, not "system jumping" - makes more sense storytellingwise.

By the way: sorry for my spelling (I hope most of it is correct) - it's my second language ^.^

I somewhat liked how the original Star Wars was a story of common folk, not all high and noble people ...

Therefore I would also change that Padme/Amidala royality thing - it's strange to think that Luke should be the prince of Naboo :-/

Leia was adopted by the ruler of Alderaan, making her (if not others had the claim to the throne) queen or something - hadn't Alderaan been destroyed.

Lucas wiggled out a bit there, declaring that rulership of Naboo is elected by its people, but I find it better to have Luke/Leia's mother not be a highborn of some kind - sure let her be a senator, just leave out the nobility ...

if we get back to the Han/Chewie connection - they both are common folk - scoundrels, warriors, no titels attached - even Lando before he took into business was more or less "lower class" - I think that is a point not to be overseen, as the audience can connect to these characters more easly - and in-verse: if Binks is more grounded, his motivations and connection to his planet/people is reasonable.

last time I searched for some good files, in my case for "Knights of the Old Republic", this site was very helpful:

http://www.lucasforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=324

I am sure, there are experts there, who can extract audio files from games, or know where to look for the needed files ;-)

possible infos could also be here:

http://knightsoftheoldrepublic.filefront.com/

maybe here too:

http://www.moddb.com/mods

and if you can read german, some folks have nice tipps here:

http://www.starwars-union.de/forum/board15-das-erweiterte-universum-eu/board17-spiele/10097-jedi-knight-outcast-jedi-academy-mods-pages/

@Bingowings

hm, the only problem I got with "senator Binks" from the start is, that I couldn't see any possible (good!) reason why he is coming along all the time, shouldn't he stay on Coruscant?

maybe as an servant or personal aide, ala C3PO, it would make more sense ...

@mrbenja0618

you mean this? http://vimeo.com/44089534

if so, cudos to the editor, he did with small afford what Lucas couldn't: make the Nemodians really threatening - and Sidious more cunning in his longtime planning of things - not bumbling from situation to the next

so with good dialog and some cuts, there is hope for the prequels, though it isn't easy - not if one struggles alone, but with combined ideas, we could get this baby offground ;-)

Good point, but by whom or how often is he adressed in the movie?

hm, maybe shorten his name to just "Binks"

it could be some nickname, his real name too complicated for the human tongue ;-)

I thought about shifting the focus from the Jedi to the common folk, because some, if not all of them acted quite bit of up-in-the-clouds (except Qui-Gon) - so it isn't easy for the audience to feel sorry, when they get all killed off in the last act ...

so maybe have Padme and "Binks" be slaves, both could be citizens of Naboo/Alderaan, got captured by the "Federation" and put in the (off screen) P.O.W. camp - I prefer not to show all steps, better give the mind something to imagine ;-)

well, Episode 1 could start with the blockade/invasion of Naboo (plus capturing of some protagonists) - no Jedi yet - moving to Alderaan or Coruscant for further info about the threat to the outer rim colonies - then maybe we could be introduced to the Jedi and the council to discuss the diplomatic mission (or debunk it), where Qui-Gon could go rogue and Obi-Wan warning his master to not "anger" the council ...

some plot points later, we have the Jedi and a group of freedom fighters plus the "Gungans" against the oppressing forces of the "Federation" standoff.

The whole political theatre could be reworked into a farce of public trial - the Nemodians could be juged, but to the dismay of Naboo/Alderaan(/Jedi) their "punishment" is sort of an poor excuse to leave the system alone, and "never do it again" - showing the toothless bureacratic body - enter Palpatine, who whispers "lies" into peoples ears (ala Grima in "Two Towers") - from there "Episode 2" is in building mode :-)

I think it all depends how one handles the Naboo/Alderaan situation, in correlation with the other "outer rim systems" or the "Federation" invasion.

Sure "Jar Jar" (has someone thougt of a better name for him?) could be an aide to the queen (whoever is elected or risen to the throne) but also an interesting touch would be to have him be a refugee, caught in the middle of the war / crisis (different from what we saw in the movies, and his person a more sincere nature then) ...

"Jar Jar" could be a labor worker on the farm of the queens (or Padme's) family, this could intertwine the fates of the common people and the nobility, all sharing the threat of losing home and possession.

Think of it, writing this an idea came to mind:

the whole Anakin slave story, kind of drowned, and only made place for confusion and questions, as to why the Jedi didn't free Shmi and so on - how about, a twist of fate brought "Jar Jar" and his folks (Gungans or other name for his race) the needed push to freedom and equality with humans (or maybe rebellion against the Nemodians, who could have enslaved them) - to rise up as an "alien" Spartacus - that would take surely the focus from the Jedi and such, but seems a nice way to boost this character (in a better direction).

just my two cents ;-)