.Mac. said:
But anyway, this debate has of course gone on far too long than it really needed, and it's becoming rather stale at this point - it's just too bad that it doesn't seem like anything was accomplished by it all. Let's end it with that.
Couldn't agree more :)
It's not just the hat, ray_afraid. Post edited :)
I've got to ask, is English your native language? Because you seem to be taking the wrong thing away from my points quite a lot. I'll explain momentarily, but first.....
Okay, fair enough if the hat really bugs you that much. I still feel it all works fine, not blatant as you feel it is, but just as the other western influences were referenced in the OT.
The thing is though, it's not JUST the hat....he's got the duster, the gun belt (and bullet belt) and the hat....it's just too much. He's a straight out cowboy. For the sake of convenience, I've repeatedly referred to his "hat" but there's a lot more linking him to a real world visual stereotype than that.
I've never once said that characters from animation can't be ported over to other mediums. You seem intent on making out I have, but I can't find anywhere where that's even implied. I merely expressed it about this particular one.
Yes you have, it's exactly one of the arguments you made in your first post that started this whole debate in the first place. Here it is for reminder:
I dont understand why anyone finds these cartoon characters compelling. They're laughable caricatures; completely fine for the medium they're presented in, but have absolutely no place in a live action, more serious movie.
Key word. THESE characters. Obviously, I don't mean every cartoon character in the world, I was just referring to the ones that, I feel, are unsuitable in the way I feel Cad Bane is. Your assumption that I believe no cartoon can ever be adapted to live action is just a gross misinterpretation of what I said above, which I'm sure most will agree does not indicate what you think it did.
.Mac. said:
I don't agree, because I still see potential.
Good. I don't.
.Mac. said:
Incidentally though, you're bringing up Bane's actions in the show. These aren't relevant when it comes to our point of discussion - you thinking he would be a good fit for Revisited.
It was relevant since you were claiming how non-threatening a character he was, so I was providing some background examples from the show. I do still think he would be a fine addition for Revisited if treated properly.
It was only relevant if you wanted a discussion on how good or bad the character is in TCW. I briefly touched on that in passing, however it was not part of my argument except when it came to the design. It is irrelevant to your assertion that the character would be a good match for Revisited (in which he'd be a blank slate). If you want to discuss the merits of Cad Bane as a character, feel free to start a thread in the relevant section, and I'll feel free to ignore it as uninteresting :)
When I referred to him having 'Kids' show' written all over him, again, I was referring to his appearance (is it sinking in yet?)
I guess not. I don't see anything about him that has "Kids' Show" written all over him (I'm imagining the live-action version, which I have been trying to get you to do all along).
Again, potential misunderstanding. When I asked "is it sinking in yet?" I mean, "is it sinking in yet that I'm referring to his appearance, not his character?". Not, "is it sinking in yet that I'm correct?"
You think the design works, and that's FINE. I think it looks beyond silly, and showing that live action concept (which is just a painting, and does not reflect how it would actually translate into live action) doesn't help, because the most ridiculous thing about Cad Bane is not his anatomical appearance, but his cowboy outfit in combination with said appearance!
People can certainly relate with and sense the emotions Yoda had, so why limit it to just people with their faces exposed? I'm not against seeing more of those kinds, but let's aim higher, let's get more aliens with non-human-looking faces to show in the PT - need to replace much of the bad CG ones.
Yoda was a puppet with its own limitations. If you want mouth movement as extensive as a Yoda puppet on a full size Duros mask, then that's some complicated animatronics for an amateur project.
A rubber mask which is meant to be the character's actual face is not comparable to a helmet/mask with an implied face beneath or a droid without any face at all. There's no point even attempting to compare the two as they are completely different.
Not as different as you think. It doesn't matter so much if the character is wearing a helmet, prosthetics, make-up, or is a droid, the audience can still identify and relate with that character if there's still something about them they can connect with. So while it helps, an emotive face doesn't always have to be there. In the case of Bane, though, he can have an emotive face by digital manipulation on the prosthetic mask.
Of course it's different. A droid's 'face' or a helmet/mask are meant to portray artificial materials (which it is) and the other is meant to portray the flesh of a real creature (which it emphatically isn't). You have completely the wrong idea about how much emotion can be inserted via digital manipulation, short of the odd expression. You've got to have some movement to work with as a starting point. The plugin Ady used in After Effects to accomplish the cantina scene and Yoda relies on warping the image. Stretch the skin too much to get it where you need it and it looks like paint smudges. The tweaks have to be REALLY subtle for this reason. Unless you're after a completely mute Cad Bane as your bounty hunter, it's not practical or possible. Which brings me onto......
The person wearing the Duros mask can speak as normal to get the mouth of the mask to make some movement. Ady can then later add in the extra articulation as he did for Yoda in ESB:R. I know easier said than done, but I do believe it can be done convincingly enough and the extra effort to go this route would go a very long way. And who knows what all available resources will be for him by this time, to do things he never thought he could do before.
LOL. Masks don't behave in this way. There likely won't be any movement from the mouth while the actor is saying his lines underneath, and if there was, it would probably be in the wrong place or completely the incorrect kind of shapes the mouth would be making. There has to be some degree of existing articulation with the mouth in order to make what you say possible. Not just the mouth hole randomly puckering up sometimes. A mask could potentially be blended with the actor's face, leaving their real mouth free, with makeup and such to augment it, but I'm assuming this wasn't what you meant as not only wouldn't it look like a Duros anymore, but also the actor may as well just speak without ANY digital manipulation then. You already shot down what I said when I previously suggested species that could be created with make up were more practical, convincing and easier for the audience to relate to.
So because I dislike a cartoon character, that means I'm closed minded. Lol. Ok. You've convinced me. I'll stop looking for excuses and allow the light of Cad Bane into my life. ;)
No, it's because you still don't seem to want to imagine the possibility for a character from TCW (who you originally don't like) to be made to work into a viable and interesting character in a live-action PT film (who you would possibly then like). Just because at first it doesn't sound like a good idea to you, doesn't mean there won't be something you can take away from it and like in the end.
I've imagined.
I disliked.
I'm not being stubborn, I just think it's stupid. Why can't you accept that this is indeed my opinion and that I'm not being pigheaded?
^You can rest assured there's no anti-hat bias from this guy.
Going to have to forego the quoting game, as it's too much effort. Apologies.
You seem to be misunderstanding what I mean when I say cartoony. I don't mean the literal art style and proportions of characters. Of course they're cartoony....it's a CARTOON.
The same goes for my campy comment. You took me out of context and showed that picture of a sinister looking Duros to contradict me, but it's without the campy cowboy getup which is my main point of contention, though the fact that he's a bright blue alien with it doesn't help matters.
Star Wars draws a lot of inspiration from earth stuff. Of course it does, that's unavoidable. I just think a cowboy hat is too blatant a homage. It just looks silly in my opinion. Especially on a blue alien. Though it seems this is the very reason you think it DOES work, and I respect your opinion. I'm definitely not going to get into any argument based on your speculation as to the fictional reasons Duros might wear hats though.
I've never once said that characters from animation can't be ported over to other mediums. You seem intent on making out I have, but I can't find anywhere where that's even implied. I merely expressed it about this particular one. I doubt I'm alone. You also seem unable to differentiate between my dislike for the character in TCW, and my opinion that his appearance makes him unsuitable for Revisited. You've said I'm now "backtracking" or "narrowing down" my reasons for disliking the character. Not at all. I still think the character was one dimensional and boring with cliched lines, voice and no character development whatsoever. But none of that matters when it comes to Revisited as it's only his appearance (which includes his attire) that's relevant there, which is why I've not mentioned any of that other stuff since my initial post mentioning my dislike of TCW.
Incidentally though, you're bringing up Bane's actions in the show. These aren't relevant when it comes to our point of discussion - you thinking he would be a good fit for Revisited. When I referred to him having 'Kids' show' written all over him, again, I was referring to his appearance (is it sinking in yet?) Were Cad Bane added to Revisited, he would be a blank slate, so anything he's done in the show is irrelevant.
There are so many things you're quoting out of context I can't even keep track. No, I know there are no blue people on earth. Thanks for clearing that one up. I was referring to his outfit.
Likewise, I mentioned Zabraks and Twileks as examples because it wouldn't be a rubber mask, it would be makeup. Yknow....allowing the actor to....act and emote. And the audience to relate in ways they couldn't otherwise. A rubber mask which is meant to be the character's actual face is not comparable to a helmet/mask with an implied face beneath or a droid without any face at all. There's no point even attempting to compare the two as they are completely different. We don't question that Vader is wearing a helmet. It IS in actuality a helmet and this adds an air of mystery and menace simply because we don't know what's under there.
With a rubber face, there is no mystery. It's the alien's face. More likely than not, it won't be mouthing words properly and won't be emoting. "But aliens might emote differently" I hear you say. Fine. I still think he looks stupid in his cowboy outfit. Or perhaps you think Ady should put in months of work making the face more animated. Well I hate to break it to you, but adding expressions to a Duros, or blinks to a Rodian are one thing, but animating full speech needs existing puppeteering/animatronics to use as a starting point to look good. CG mouth replacements are a lot of work and as far as I know, beyond the scope of this edit.
Yes, there were Duros in ANH and they weren't CG. They were also background extras! Had they tried making them more prominent with spoken dialogue, they'd have run into serious problems selling them as real. It would have looked cheap as hell, even without a cowboy hat.
I've listed my reasons I think he's unsuitable in appearance for Revisited. I've also touched briefly on my dislike of the character in TCW, and my dislike of the show in general so there's not much else to say. You have your opinion, I have mine.
Okay, just one quote. First one is me, second your reply:
Also, I agree that not everything from the PT was bad, and I do have an open mind already.
If that were true, then I simply don't understand why you have been gathering EVERY possible excuse you can grab onto for not wanting to like the Bane character, and why you choose not to see even the slightest potential he can have in live-action.
So because I dislike a cartoon character, that means I'm closed minded. Lol. Ok. You've convinced me. I'll stop looking for excuses and allow the light of Cad Bane into my life. ;)
.Mac. said:
With Cad Bane, you have an almost neon blue alien with red eyes, a cliche 'bad guy voice' and wearing a literal cowboy hat.
You make it sound like there's something wrong with a neon blue alien with red eyes. It's alien, very fitting for Star Wars, and the species name is Duros, who are also seen in the Cantina of the original Star Wars, if you remember. I strongly disagree about his voice, that's part of what makes him so interesting and badass - I can't think of a single character who sounds just like him. You have a problem with his cowboy hat and yet just earlier you praised Fett and his cowboy archetype? hmm.
I'm aware he's the same species as in the cantina, however the Duros in the cantina work as background aliens for me because they're so unusual. It's way too campy a design for a prominent villain in a live action medium. Again, let me stress, he's fine where he belongs. In a cartoon.
As for the cowboy hat, yes I have a problem with it. Because it's taken straight from our earth cowboys. Whereas with Fett the creators borrowed aspects of the cowboy archetype that would register with us on the subliminal level without him outright looking like one. Subtlety is something children's shows don't need. However, movies do.
They're laughable caricatures; completely fine for the medium they're presented in, but have absolutely no place in a live action, more serious movie.
It's because they are a cartoon is why they're a "caricature". Why can't a character originally created for an animation be in a live-action film? Your reasoning doesn't make sense here. That's exactly like saying live-action characters can't later become animated, or characters from books should not be in live-action or animated films. Yes their expressions and antics may be exaggerated for its target audience in the cartoon, but doesn't mean the same would be true in the live-action.
My reasoning makes perfect sense. I think it's you that's misunderstood why I see him as a caricature. It's not the expressions/antics inherent to the childish medium that bothers me. As you've made clear, these can be changed for a movie, and I completely agree. As I explained above, his design bothers me as it is derivative of OUR world, not a galaxy far far away. Also, people relate to other humans, or at at least human faces better when it comes to loving or hating a character (which I think is key in this instance). If there was another character design which could be a human in makeup (a la Twileks or Zabraks) then I'd be more open to it. As it stands, Cad Bane would have to be CG, or have a REALLY expressive prosthetic mask. Even if I did like his design, it wouldn't work even for a big movie production. It would be like the Neimoidians all over again. They weren't threatening either.
I understand you may not have meant to take absolutely everything about the character, but personally I see nothing about it that's of any use. He has the same lazy, derivative, and stereotypical character design as some of the CG Prequel villains, except it's even worse.
Again, his character design is based on the pair of Duros in the Cantina of the original Star Wars, not the PT. Do you still feel the same way about the design now? Even if his character is from the PT era, that doesn't automatically make him a bad character either. Not everything that resulted from the PT is bad. Have an open mind, please.
It could in actuality be a completely new bounty hunter too, but the reason I chose Cade Bane is because he's already an established character of this time period that most SW fans are at least aware of, who I think is awesome and with potential, and thought it'd be perfect if we see more of him and less of Jango (making Boba Fett more his own and unique). Aurra Sing is another potential bounty hunter, who was mentioned earlier, and indeed she was originally seen in TPM and later "caricatured" in the Clone Wars show.
Sorry didn't mean to sound like a hard ass in any of this, but some times we gotta stand up for something if we really believe in it and like it :)
The fact he's a Duros doesn't change how I feel about it. I'm not going to suddenly like his character design just because he happens to be the same species we see in ANH. Lol.
Also, I agree that not everything from the PT was bad, and I do have an open mind already.
I get it. Characters can be adapted from film to cartoons. But you've got to ensure that when the reverse happens, it's not such a childish design that it'll look stupid in live action. In the case of Cad Bane, I believe I'm right. Aurra Sing and all the other movie characters taken across to TCW looked less cartoony in their designs as a result of not having started as a cartoon. Cad Bane has kids' show written all over him. It's like they looked at the subtle things about Boba Fett and amped it up for an audience that can't pick up on these subtle cues yet.
"We've got to show he's a frontier rogue. Like a cowboy. How do we get kids to understand that?"
"Give him a cowboy hat?"
"Someone get this man a cookie!"
I haven't watched The Clone Wars more than once. I ultimately found it lame and very kiddy (yes I'm aware it's a kids' show before anyone says it), though I'm aware I'm probably in the minority as most people seem to rave about it.
Anyway, I don't think Cad Bane was at all threatening or a particularly memorable character. Boba Fett borrowed from the cowboy archetype, down to his gravelly voice, the stirrup sound effect when he walked, and his general demeanour. He was threatening and sinister from how he's presented - faceless, battlescarred armour, doesn't talk much.
With Cad Bane, you have an almost neon blue alien with red eyes, a cliche 'bad guy voice' and wearing a literal cowboy hat.
I don't understand why anyone finds these cartoon characters compelling. They're laughable caricatures; completely fine for the medium they're presented in, but have absolutely no place in a live action, more serious movie.
I understand you may not have meant to take absolutely everything about the character, but personally I see nothing about it that's of any use. He has the same lazy, derivative, and stereotypical character design as some of the CG Prequel villains, except it's even worse.
muddyknees2000 said:
Gotta say, I prefer my Jabba referenced in conversation, building him up, until his reveal in ROTJ. It works perfectly and opens ROTJ on a note of suspense. The original plan WAS to have included him in that one tiny scene in ANH, but I think it would have ruined that beautiful sense of dread than one shares with Leia and Co. as Han is taken away by Boba to face his fate at the hands of his nemesis Jabba the Hutt..........and that same feeling of foreboding as everyone heads for Jabba's palace at the beginning of ROTJ to rescue him.
This.
EDIT: Nevermind.
It might be an idea to take a step back and just look at the two audio sections without being too constrained by the video. Obviously, you can't move the transition too far from your cut, but sometimes you'll find a perfect transition point that's just a little further back or ahead that either necessitates a slight trim to the footage, or filling the gap with something else.
I too have used the Howard Shore OST's in my project, and many times, I've got the audio right, only to find that there's then a small gap in my video that I never intended. Obviously as faneditors, our situation is rather unique, as any regular editor wouldn't be constrained in this way as they'd have access to the source video, but following these rules does ensure the product ends up far more polished. There's a generally held belief that audio is more important than video, and I happen to believe that's true. Our brains, are very good at detecting when something doesn't sound right. It's far more forgiving when it comes to visuals.
Tobar said:
Well that would certainly be useful to fan editors, it would be pretty superfluous to other Star Wars fan projects like audio plays, fan films and games.
If it's that the kind of stuff that is holding up the release, I would humbly suggest creating a secondary archive for that kind of material. It would hopefully help to usher the release of the project as a whole. As well as save hard drive space for others who are only interested in Star Wars specific resources.
But of course this is entirely your project and so that's all up to you! =)
Well that particular resource isn't forthcoming anymore, so the only thing holding up this release is having a bunch of sounds from the KOTOR games that have to be converted one by one (no batch convert option unfortunately, due to the convoluted process I have to go through to get them into a useable format) and then there's all the sorting that needs to be done into the correct folders.
darth_ender has kindly offered to help with the latter, so once I'm at that stage, I may well take him up on it. :)
I've started watching it, and I can see you've made a few of the same editing choices as I have. If I could offer some constructive criticism though, your audio cuts need a lot of work to not be jarring. When moving from one piece of music to another, the key is finding the right transition point. Transition in the wrong place, or between completely different pieces of music, and your fade ends up sounding like just that....a fade. And one where you can hear both pieces of music at the same time, which is jarring. Ideally you want it to sound like one seamless piece of music otherwise it's going to pull people out of the movie.
This is best accomplished by listening to both pieces of music and trying to find a point in both where the section might act as a bridge to the other piece. It might be a similar note in both (with the same instruments of course) or a percussive section that you can overlay over the end of the first piece so that it sounds like the orchestra is actually going into a different movement.
Christopher Lee is Count Dooku. Anything with him can be used to cobble together new dialogue for him for cutaways. With middle earth dialogue often concerning 'great evil' etc, there's a wealth of great stuff in there already.
Hey. No ETA at this point. I do dip back into it occasionally but there are some resources I've been waiting for that haven't materialised so I may have to just push ahead without them. One resource in particular was the Battle of Five Armies DLC for the Lego Hobbit game, which would have featured a load more clean Christopher Lee dialogue (as well as having dialogue in the movie, he also does the entire story narration), but Warner Bros have recently announced that they're leaving the game incomplete. Dick move.
I've long since moved over to a Mac, but also found ADigitalMan's guide extremely helpful back in the day.
I'm not sure what the current best way is on Windows to rip a BluRay, and then convert the M2TS files into a suitable format. But doing a google search along the lines of the above should yield some results. You may find guides on FanEdit.org.
If you rip the audio on a BluRay to an AC3 using whatever method you find, you can follow ADigitalMan's guide for that at least to separate it into 6 discrete channels.
Perhaps the most important question here is....what's the fun of a "clean" version of Game of Thrones?! ;)
Wow, I didn't realise the US got this on BluRay already! Bizarrely, my preorder in the UK says April 20th! I was hoping to get cracking on my own edit. Oh well!
I just came across this thread and though it deserved a comment. You're editing this from the same sensibilities as I have and most of your listed changes are exactly how I've already approached my edit. Most people don't seen to go far enough cutting the fat, but yours is by far the most ambitious edit I've heard about......well except maybe mine ;)
.Mac. said:
However, like I was saying before, there is only so much we can do with the ROTJ story. All kinds of new scenes can be shot, but, unless Ady plans to shoot an entirely brand new film and replace the OT characters altogether, he will not be able to remold the film to the way you or I wish it could've been - not without it looking like a fan edit, which is NOT the aim of Revisited (it is a fan edit but it's not intended to look like one). Because of these limitations with the footage involving the OT characters, of what they do and say onscreen, I'm suggesting keeping to the film's lore and start the groundwork from there, that Ady CAN actually do and STILL make a much better film than it is now, successfully. I'm just trying to be realistic here with what can or can't be expected to be done :)
The great thing about the changes we've been discussing is that they specifically don't require the main cast to achieve them. Our principal characters will do everything identically to the original, and in the same settings. It's only the scenes that intercut between their scenes that must be altered. Any necessary exposition would be via new actors playing minor roles (rebel or imperial officers) and/or redubbing existing ones.
Because this particular idea only relates to diminishing the role of the 2nd Death Star, I don't have a full plot outline written down to give you, however I'm being realistic and only proposing things that I feel are doable. For example, as much as I'd have liked Lando to have sacrificed himself, I haven't brought it up as the footage doesn't exist to pull it off. This idea though, can be pulled off effectively because the Rebels' actions and motivations are the same. They still need to:
1. Sneak to a moon to blow up a shield generator
2. With the shield down, attack.....something.
It's all a matter of changing the meaning of these actions by altering other scenes.
As for muddyknees2000, he's a realist. If there's a flaw in the idea, I'm sure he'd be more than willing to call me out on it. ;)
Easier and preferable to just to cut it entirely.....It was still obviously Vader, but sounded like he'd been huffing helium in parts. Plus the music is all over the place from how it's been cut. That's always a consideration when you don't have clean dialogue.
nightstalkerpoet said:
......huh?
.Mac. said:
brash_stryker said:
I'm not speaking for Ady at all here, but he has announced in the past that he'll be going to town on ROTJ. Not as drastic an edit as the PT, obviously, but it seems to be implied that he'll be filming new elements. So we're not limited by existing footage at all.
That's what I understand will happen too, as I stated above. He is planning on expanding the space battle with more (new) B-Wing and A-Wing action and more (new) footage of Rebel commandos fighting against the Imperials on Endor, of which I am most certainly in favor of (and neither additions defy the lore)... he can shoot all kinds of new stuff, however, we are limited with how much footage there is involving the OT characters - that's what I meant.
My guess is that his additions will go much further than that but I could be wrong. Personally, I couldn't care less about the lore this flawed movie has established, so that's why I'm more in favour of drastic changes. None of which would require additional footage of existing characters. :)
.Mac. said:
...but we also have to consider what's actually possible with the footage already available
I'm not speaking for Ady at all here, but he has announced in the past that he'll be going to town on ROTJ. Not as drastic an edit as the PT, obviously, but it seems to be implied that he'll be filming new elements. So we're not limited by existing footage at all.
As for at what point changes become too much, well that's one reason I specifically want the 2nd Death Star kept. The half-built aesthetic is so iconic, and I would never want that removed entirely and I'm sure 99% of fans would agree with that.
I'm also sure that such a radical change as some of us have proposed would upset a huge portion of the fanbase as well. But personally, I think it's needed to save this flawed movie. In a way, it's far more tragic a failure than the PT ever was, as it actually had some of the greatest moments in the OT in there whereas the PT was all garbage. Lucas should have shown it more respect, and it's my opinion that this is a change more in the spirit of what someone like Kershner would have wanted.
.Mac. said:
metalmunki said:
I prefer DS2 being around Endor's moon where it is. It makes more sense that it's being built somewhere 'hidden', and that it's a surprise that the Emperor is personally showing up ("The Emperor is coming here!?")
There is just no way the Rebel fleet would do a direct assault on the Coruscant system.
What I will say is, I'd like to see Endor itself more prominent in the forest moon's sky and perhaps in some of the space shots, and the DS2 being more obviously in the moon's orbit in some of the shots also.
I strongly agree with all of this.
The construction of the Death Star should remain hidden and isolated as it's being constructed. Sure would be great to see the planet Endor in certain instances too, which, has a vertical ring belt (I think?).
I would like to also see the Imperial base on the moon expanded with a large mining colony and construction plant there. They're extracting the moon's resources/metals and creating the pieces necessary for the new Death Star. These pieces are brought out by multiple cargo ships that go to the orbiting station and return for a reload. This can be very easily established while our heroes in the transport make a pass before landing on the outskirts (very similar to the arrival on Pandora in Avatar).
I'll address both of you in this post just because .Mac stated he agreed with everything metalmunki said.
People aren't proposing moving the moon to Coruscant but keeping everything else the same (which I agree would be completely pointless and would make very little sense to be built "in secret" but circling the Galactic Capital!). The idea that's been proposed here involves downgrading the Death Star's importance to a secondary (probably surprise) plot-device, not central to the plot anymore. The Rebels would need a new reason to be blowing up the generator on the moon, which is why myself and others have proposed that the shield generator is powering a PLANETARY shield which is guarding against attacks on Coruscant. So the moon circling Coruscant doesn't in any way affect your logic that the DS should be built elsewhere, as the DS would have absolutely nothing to do with the moon. The 2nd DS can appear as a surprise trap without us needing to know where it was built. That's the beauty of it. The first Death Star wasn't stuck in orbit around a particular planet. This one doesn't need to be either.
The stakes should be much higher in the penultimate chapter. An assault on the Imperial Capital fits the bill perfectly in my opinion, and is probably more along the lines of what people expected back in 1983. You are of course entitled to disagree, however the issue I see is the entire plot centres around destroying another Death Star, which is just lazy recycling and it should never have been written in this way in the first place. Changing the main plot to no longer be about the Death Star fixes a lot. There's a lot more wrong with ROTJ than that, but it would be a hell of a start.
As for metalmunki's statement that there's "no way" the Rebels would ever attack Coruscant......their aim is to defeat the Empire, yes? How else do you propose they would ever accomplish that if they're never willing to hit their seat of power? They'd have had to do it eventually so I don't understand your logic. Just wanting to see Endor in the forest moon's sky is all very pretty, I'm sure, but it doesn't fix anything about the plot.
Jackpumpkinhead said:
i just caught this in the comparison vid #2:
i know that this is just a test version, but i hope ady will do something about the obvious green screen in dooku's hair
This thread is about episode 5.
Also that was just a blanket colour pass. He might remove the entire background from that shot and have the scene take place somewhere else. He might replace Dooku entirely. Who knows. It goes without saying that issues like that will be fixed. Not in a test colour-pass when he hasn't even finished ESB though.
Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Bingowings said:
What if Anakin's dreams get so strong he actually has seizures and passes out?
Maybe the awful "got ya" roll in the grass bit could be trimmed off and the sound from the deleted scene on the ship could be used to imply that Anakin has collapsed and is seeing his mother in peril.
This would help build sympathy for Anakin both from Padme and the audience and make their trip to Tatooine a little less reckless (seeing as he is supposed to be guarding her).
This would also help bolster the fugue state idea (that Vader is Anakin's subconscious Dark Side expressing itself during his unconscious moments).
This would be fairly easy to pull off by cutting from him struggling atop the creature to flashes of his dead mother. We would have to end with Padme rushing over to his limp body, at which point we'd cut back to the Obi Wan plotline. We already have a shot of Anakin tossing and turning in bed to cut back to after that. I wouldn't necessarily use it to set up the "fugue state" concept, but it could potentially expand on his justification for going to his Mother (though it really isn't in keeping with the OT for the viewer to see these visions, so I'm not sure it would be desirable, personally). My main problem is the horrible looking creature. If Anakin could be shown showing off bucking bronco style on something else it could be useful maybe.
Bingowings said:
Watching some of the arena battle again I was wondering if it would work better as a night scene. With the various monsters picked out by moonlight and flashes of lightning.
It might make the sabers look better too.
The clones could arrive eclipsing the full moon.
It would make the place look less generic PT desert planet and there has yet to be a Star Wars night battle.
I've always thought this, and not just because of the mockups we've had in the past. If they really wanted the seizure inducing amount of sabers they have in the Geonosis battle, then everything else needs to be toned down to sell it or it ends up far too busy. There's potential for some spectacular looking long shots of the battle where we can barely see the jedi or droids. Only their sabers and laser fire.
Here's an idea. What if, in the scene when the surviving Jedi are pushed into a tight circle, with their fallen comrades around them, they're illuminated by a sudden spotlight? At which point the voice of Dooku (or whoever) demands their surrender. The viewer wouldn't know until this point the extent of the Jedi losses but suddenly we see these are all that's left and we see the bodies just out of the spotlight, with the odd limp arm illuminated by it. It could be quite effective.
