analog

Haven’t been here in a long time. WOW what a change on the forums. Looks great on mobile, but “too big” for PC, so I’ve zoomed out a little, lol.

Anyway, now that I have pages upon pages to catch up on, I was wondering if nanner split ever re-appeared? Last I heard, he left the building, but was going to work on some discs. Shame, because I had one for this done. In the can. Functional. Then, it got deep into subtitles, what would work, what wouldn’t. Other talk about menus, etc., but then it seemed to fizzle. Life on my end also got hectic again.

Anyway, if anyone knows the scoop on that, I’d be curious to know what the word is. Will be reading many, many pages over the next several days, and should be back to visit here a little more often.

...wonder what ever happened to nanner split's efforts... last I heard, there were delays, then all ready to rock, then nothing...

AFIK, the idea is that the (main/audio) menu will be "the same" in general appearance as the "popup" one shown - when you put in the disc, you'll get the menu + background clip. When you move to "audio," for example, you'd see the bar with the options there. After picking a track, you would then start playback. The "popup" is simply for changing during playback.
For example, say you wanted to hear commentary - you'd start it with that. Say you got bored of it. You could easily switch back to your language / track of choice during playback.

My initial idea for the menus was more "full screen," but I do have to say that the idea of a simple bar that covers less screen area is arguably a much, much better choice for playback,  and will also suit the "main menu" screen nicely.

Design looks good, Nanner. Go for it, once the other elements are ready from Harmy's end (intro clip, plus one other thing)

Yes, Nanner Split - that is exactly it... this has been an ongoing desire for a long time (over a year, possibly 2+, I don't recall..), with a lot of people having tried other (very basic) software which is why I was excited to find software that seemed to do what was needed, that didn't cost an arm and a leg (as noted above). It's also nice of you to jump in with something a little more pro than the software I found, which supports chapters properly (still no idea why mine won't).

Yes, the plan is a "release" once it's ready. I'd think .iso would be best/simplest. It's something we've all been kind of waiting to do, and I happened upon some software I though would work well, but it's looking like Nanner Split's got some better options with his.

There are also a few other things we're waiting on, which will probably be done soon, so with any luck, we're talking maybe about a month, but as with anything, there are no guarantees, and we're not in any huge rush that I know of.

Nanner Split said:

analog said:

Am still curious - did you verify that all tracks are selectable via the menu elements, even though there was mention of the 9 track limitation in the documentation?

Any kind of track limitation would only pertain to the muxing of the disc itself and not the menu (as long as its size doesn't exceed the total image buffer it can have as many things on it as we want, and it's not even close to maxing out the buffer)

analog said:

All that being said - I'd still be down with helping on the graphics front if you'd like. I could work with the layout ideas you have, as well as the font. It's certainly more readable than the one I was working with (which required layers of various things to "stand out" properly).

I'm currently putting together more or less a "template" that just needs to be filled in and tinkered with, i'll let you know when it's ready. :)

The only thing I can see being annoying is putting in thumbnails for the chapters since there are so many of them, but only because it's time consuming, not because it's difficult.

By the way, I haven't verified yet, but are the chapter markers in the mkv verified or were they put in automatically?

Nice! Hopeful that there are zero issues there.

yoda-sama - Haha, yes, it did work. It was a straight copy/paste from the .nfo text regarding the tracks - absolutely agree it could be shored up quite a bit, and leave out a lot of the "detail" present, as long as type/language is there, it should be enough to tell which track you're on, which is the main point.

Honestly, I don't mind the approach of a scrolling menu at all.
If Nanner Split's method works, it's "6 of one, 1/2 dozen of another" kind of thing to me. The only major thing is knowing "ok, which 'English' track is this?!?!" or other language, while playing back from a disc.

Keeping it "cleaner" than 1-3 screens full of options also has several benefits. It cuts down a lot of design challenges, keeps organization easier, etc.
Again, it was my *very* first run to see if the number of audio tracks would work. I would most definitely have cut down the text (which, I'd already done for a "1.01" draft, prior to even posting here).

Looking fwd. to seeing a template, and if there's anything I can help with on that, I'd be glad to.

You're welcome, Harmy! - it's awesome to have Nanner Split appear here and jump in with Do Studio (arguably a better program than what I was using anyway, for a variety of reasons), and, already having started on some ideas is a "good thing" for all!

As for chapter markers, they were not muxed in w/the original .mkv. Many have added them by remuxing for their own "basic" discs...
Scene selection - yeah, that'll be tedious. I almost wonder if it's worth nixing the "chapters" menu, and just having the "marker points" so you can skip with them during playback? Perhaps we go with fewer than the ~50 of them (which is based on the Laserdisc anyway...).

As to bitrate of the audio, I can see that being an option, but would it be "enough" to lower the commentary track's bitrate? ...I can re-encode some of them if anyone wants...

Good finds on the subtitles.

I can see your aim w/the design better now, thanks. The bar with audio text may have to be "thicker" though, as some of those track titles are a little wordy. They can be trimmed a bit, though, from the basic description in the nfo file.

In any case, this was my (very much "1.0") audio menu screen.
http://imgur.com/5v8FMoM
The lower part was cropped out, as it wasn't very good. I do prefer the "first row" of yours, and understand your ideas about the selection.

The other nice thing about this menu structure you have here: Ease of "re-use" in the other 2 movies, and the consistency factor. Would be nice to see all 3 have something similar, for "familiar" navigation.

Am still curious - did you verify that all tracks are selectable via the menu elements, even though there was mention of the 9 track limitation in the documentation?

Obviously, "all of them on one screen" is ...well... lots of words come to mind. Jarring. Overload. Insane. WTF. ... Again, I did it this way for 2 reasons - one, I was just getting started, and trying to see if it'd even fully function with all 21 tracks (which it does), as well as wanting to start out with "lots of choice" on one screen. More than anything, it was done as a first run to see if it'd work at all with all the tracks. Layout/design was "secondary" to my goal of testing functionality at the time.

All that being said - I'd still be down with helping on the graphics front if you'd like. I could work with the layout ideas you have, as well as the font. It's certainly more readable than the one I was working with (which required layers of various things to "stand out" properly).

There are also a few other things "in the works" which I'll let Harmy speak to...
I can say, that with any luck, these things may be done within about a week, but obviously that depends. Will be very much worth the wait, however.

Dig the yellow..

My line of thinking for the menus is a little different, but not far from where you are. Fully transparent would be nice, for sure. 

I guess in my mind, it's more like

-floating transparent texts on main/audio menus. For the main, there will be a motion menu.

As for popups, I think the ideas there are all good, but with 30+ subtitles, it'd be interesting to see how that works with just a bar or two above the main navigation. 

In my head, I picture it being separate audio/subs menus with several rows, likely across 2. ..would prefer navigation to more choices across as few screens as possible.

The additional rows layout just seems possibly limiting for the # of tracks. I guess I picture more of a set of screens full of choices if that makes sense. With a set of psd's, I can show this better, I believe. Will post my draft capture of audio screen to give better idea. It is quite full, with all 21 tracks on one screen. I'm also aware of the graphic limits, which I ran into initially when using secondary background, but I think we'll be fine with just motion menu background(s).

Catbus - thank you for that info. It is as I feared ;) the audio is also vbr, at least the main lossless track is for sure. Guess we'll have to give it a try, to see what ends up working.

Ok. I thought the limitation was "non video datastream" *while playing back* but perhaps it counts all sub tracks in total?

Also, the issue is not with # of audio tracks, it's the limit of what the menu can display - if you can't "see" which track you're selecting in the menu, that's the problem, and the challenge "thus far" with authoring a disc. It's been a desire to have one that one can select any of them *from a menu.*

There have been other attempts, but the limitation has always been what can be displayed, not what can actually be on disc.

Hmmm.. Are you sure indie supports the 21 audio tracks?

This seems to say 9 :(

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/standard_blu-ray_authoring_guidelines_when_using_dostudio_indie

Nanner Split - PM sent. I see no issue at all with some collaboration, especially if your software is more ...cooperative... with some things than mine seems to be. The subtitles may just have to live in .srt format on disc...

Harmy is working out some details on some other parts, which we'll work out when they're all ready...

The biggest thing is, it'd probably take you some time to "rebuild" the audio menu, with all 21 tracks ;)

DragoonClawNZ - my concern with them is that they'll have to likely be 720p, as that's what the actual video is. Mixing resolutions there might break something in the authoring process when it goes to mux its final output. Perhaps there is some other way around all this.

If nothing else, maybe we just leave the .srt's in.

@Nanner Split - are you 100% sure it won't also allow .srt's in your software? Mine let me do either.

In any case, the least amount of compromise with any of it is, I think, important to us all. Lossless audio is a "big one" to go without, IMO. Personally, I'd say it trumps graphical subs. .Srt format would be better than none at all, and, I think slightly less a priority than losing the very nice audio track.

Thanks for the heads up, catbus, will have to see I guess. Was planning on the 720 sub's, so I'm hoping that works.

I should clarify.. It doesn't matter if the intro is at 720. The menu issue I had, was due to using the same clip just to have something there to satisfy the requirement of a motion menu...

At this point, it's probably best if I start from scratch with a chosen clip in background. Each menu can have different clips, as well. 

The only other issue was that I couldn't add scene markers with this software, but if it's possible to use tsmuxer *after the project to insert them and have it work, it may still be possible to be able to skip via "next" button on playback. Something about the frame rate it didn't like, which is odd.

Edit: Also, used a font called "Star Jedi" for the menu text. Open to suggestions, as well as input on layout preference. 21 audio selections fills up a screen. Not sure if I prefer that, or two screens, but it can all fit in one. Subtitles, I will probably just do one popup menu for.

Yes, it seems to prefer a video ;)

One challenge I ran into initially was that I did graphics for 1080, but with 720 clip underneath, it cropped the menu.. Ended up re-encoding the clip to 1080 instead of rebuilding all the menu elements.

If you have that same intro at that resolution, or, can encode it at that, I'm sure it'd be better than the converter I used. That, or I can rebuild the menus to be @ 720 size for the project. Was really a version .01 kind of thing anyway to see if it was possible. ...was excited to be able to do it at all, and see that it actually worked as intended.

Congrats!

In other good news, I think I might as well mention here that I've got some trial software that handles all the audio tracks in a menu! Successfully tested and functional! All 21! Used the "Harmy intro 1" clip (where it says "harmyfilm restoration") as intro, as well as for menus, as it forces need for audio/video track there and then just silenced the track so it's a static menu, with the clip hidden behind image clipped from the cover art. Not that interested in a "motion menu" anyway.

Pita to do, but I'm happy with results. A few more tweaks, and hopefully a popup subtitles menu, using threepio's .sup files intead of the .srt's, and I think it's a "done deal". Can swap a few parts out, but I'm not sure I want to rebuild that audio menu, lol. In any case, thought I'd share the news here, and welcome your thoughts, Harmy. Would that clip be a good intro, or did you have another in mind? Menu art is also easy to swap out.

Not quite ready to share any of it until at least a few changes, but it's 99% ready for action. My hope is that its well liked enough, and can be "out there" at some point in near future. Want to be able to make it somewhat consistent for the other 2 releases though, so I'll take however long, as there isn't a huge rush, and we all want something "nice" :)

That's some excellent quality!

Can't wait!

...now, if I could only find authoring software that could handle the # of tracks, and didn't suck. I'd be more than glad to make some basic menus, using whatever art/motion menus, if I could find software that I could work with. Not quite like the "old days" of DVD authoring.

Holy film grain, Harmy man. Very cool.

Yeah, I'd say that's a prime example of digital noise reduction madness. Makes me miss having real film in our theater here. No matter how fancy digital gets, there is absolutely nothing like film.

Darn phone. Got, not for. That's what I get for using Swype in a hurry.

There's some debate over the matter of DVD (and any home format, for that matter) being able to reproduce the colors as accurately as film. Colorspace of standard ntsc, mpeg2, etc., etc. I don't know the details exactly. The DVDs are, however, supposed to have been closer to the original films, as they did not recolor them like they did on the blue ray EE set. 

IMO, at least kk got rid of the green tint. From what I saw, they aren't as "perfect " as they could be, but are less green tinted than the source he worked from. 

That's some sketchy stuff :(

I'd say everyone flags that. The more eBay sees that, the more likely they'll take immediate action.

Yeah, their R2 units have bad motivators. 

On another note, this Empire Strikes Back makes me happy beyond words. It's a shining star of greatness in a world that has seemingly forgotten about slowing down, and enjoying the little things in life that are good. No stupid CGI, no bs, just empire in all of its bittersweet glory, and in HD.

Yeah, it's silly. I untagged 'em, so I should see them now.

Also got a disc made last night, so it's all good. Might do the DVD though, just to send to my brother who is still living in the SD era. Certainly better than the vhs or bonus discs he has. 

Something nice about physical media still, especially for something this important. Will be patiently waiting for the "final" drafts of Harmy's works though. I still consider my test burns a novelty type thing for my own enjoyment, and not "sanctioned" in any way.

The sad thing is that I am subscribed (since the very beginning of you making it), but never check my "promotions" tab in gmail (which is where it apparently filtered a TON of emails from the list!). I believe that's now been remedied!

Now, if I can find my brain, and remember how I made a basic disc out of the last mkv! Either way, I'm beyond excited!!! This really does make my day in so many ways!

Life has been insane lately. Can't believe I missed that this has been out!!! Randomly checked in on the SW thread, but have had so much going on lately, that I haven't had time to browse the *entire* forum for a long, long time. Constant work. Constant work at home... Time to relax with this very soon!

Not sure how I missed this, but am super excited and thankful to be able to enjoy this soon!

Those cases / printed discs look great, Stinky!

I've been hunting for a good disc for this purpose, as I'd still really like to help with .."a few of"... these when the time is right for SW, as well as this. Already have the cases, so the rest should be easy enough to get together.

Harmy, you've made my day (a month or so after this has apparently existed...). Appreciate all you do!

Now, when this finishes, I think I'm going to watch it at least twice tomorrow!