adywan

Hunter6 said:

I know that Obi is japanese sash, but I thought that George Lucas may have used it also because OBI can stand for obliteration by incorporation.
but knowing George is not that smart, I will remove the obliteration by incorporation part of my post.

Obi (sash) is From Japan and Wan (Chinese abbreviation for the province of Anhui) is from China.

the name Anakin is a Surname like Wan.
-------
Number20 says
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the novelization for ANH said that Vader and Obi-Wan fought and Vader fell into a volcano. I don't remember the radiation stuff from TESB.


it is in The second draft of The Empire Strikes Back screenplay and it seems at the time of making ESB (and maybe ROTJ) it was used.
(Lawrence Kasdan said that Vader was a Mutant. I think is this is in the Secret History of Star Wars or on www.starwarz.com).

The Duel between Anakin and Obi-wan always ended with Anakin falling into fire (a volcano or a molten pit).

But I think the falling into the nuclear reactor shaft was why Anakin turned to the darkside in the OOT backstory.

Both the falling into fire (a volcano or a molten pit) and falling into a nuclear reactor shaft seem to be true.

looking at the design of The unmasked vader from ESB and ROTJ, The OOT vader shows signs of both.

OOT vader with a burn on the back of his head which shows the falling into fire:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/ep5/ldvader2.jpg

OOT vader face looks like somebody with radiation sickness which shows the falling into a nuclear reactor:

http://darthvader.blog.dada.net/archive/images/DarthVader.jpg

Also Lucas in the '04 DVDs changed the unmasked vader in ROTJ to match the lava burn-only Vader of EP III.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/dvd/zs/rotj/unmasked2.jpg

 

 

i have to disagree with you about the pics. pic 2 has nothing to do with being a mutant. the make up was pale with heavy dark eyes because he had been masked for 20 years and with the skin pale due to lack of any form of sunlight with the scars from lightsaber duel between anakin & Obi-Wan. The eyebrows were removed because he was supposed to have been badly burned and would have had no eyebrows left.  i highly doubt that he would have fell into a volcano and then into a nuclear reactor shaft in the back story at all. it would have been one or the other. the Volcano back story was the one i always remember since Star Wars first came out. Maybe Lucas toyed with the idea of changing that to a reactor shaft then decided against it but re-used that idea for the Emperors death instead. But he certainly wouldn't have had both fates happen to him. Is there any documentation about Anakin falling into a nuclear reactor shaft at all because i've never heard of this. It would be interesting to read.

1080p mkv opening clip coming in about half hour or so with new fixes.....

Mielr said:

adywan said:

So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your  American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure, but I think Negative1 is British.

Then that makes his statements even more confusing

So a future dialect (even though, as C3PX stated it is set a long time ago and NOT in the future) means no British accents then, just your  American one? Wow, talk about a superiority complex. So all the British accents should be re-dubbed or subtitled because they "sound jarring, take the characters out of context, and place them back in the reality of this world"? Don't make me laugh. So what about the American accents then? Why don't they do the same thing then, because as far as i know the American accent actually exists in our world now.

I was also 10 in '77 when i saw Star Wars and i understood it perfectly well and had no problems hearing the other actors speaking American, being a Brit myself.

You certainly can't compare the humour of 3PO (OT version only NOT the pathetic PT version) to Jar Jar. They are two totally different styles. 3PO's humour was there as light relief and was used at the right moments ,never ruining an important scene whereas Jar Jars was thrust upon us just for the hell of it, and as CO said , the important scene where Padme & Anakin first meet has Jar Jar totally ruining it with the pathetic attempt at slapstick

None of the corny lines in the OT even come close to being as cringe worthy as the dialogue from the PT

lets use a seduction/ love scene as an example:

ESB Han & Leia:

HAN: Hey, Your Worship, I'm only trying to help.

LEIA:Would you please stop calling me that?

HAN: Sure, Leia.

LEIA: Oh, you make it so difficult sometimes.

HAN: I do, I really do. You could be a little nicer, though.  Come on, admit it. Sometimes you think I'm all
right.

LEIA: Occasionally, maybe...when you aren't
acting like a scoundrel.

HAN: Scoundrel? Scoundrel? I like the sound of that.

LEIA: Stop that.

HAN: Stop what?

LEIA: Stop that! My hands are dirty.

HAN: My hands are dirty, too. What are you afraid of?

LEIA: Afraid?

HAN: You're trembling.

LEIA: I'm not trembling.

HAN: You like me because I'm a scoundrel. There aren't enough
scoundrels in your life.

LEIA: I happen to like nice men.

HAN: I'm a nice man.

LEIA: No, you're not. You're...

ok now lets compare this to the AOTC fireplace scene

ANAKIN: From the moment I met you... all those years ago... not a day has gone by when I haven't thought of you. and now that I'm with you again... I'm in agony. The closer I get to you, the worse it gets. The thought of not being with you-- I can't breathe. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating... hoping that that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul... tormenting me. What can I do? I will do anything that you ask. If you are suffering as much as I am, please, tell me.

PADME: I can't. We can't. It's... just not possible.

ANAKIN: Anything is possible, Padmé. Listen to me.

PADME: No, you listen. We live in a real world. Come back to it. You're studying to become a Jedi. I'm-- I'm a senator. If you follow your thoughts through to conclusion... it'll take us to a place we cannot go... regardless of the way we feel about each other.
Then you do feel something.

Ok, ok that's about as much as i can stomach. Notice how everything in the PT is so long-winded almost like some cheesy Danielle Steel novel. Its pretty gut wrenching. Try to find a scene of this cringe worthy nature and long-winded approach in the OT and there isn't one.

Smartripper doesn't like some multi angle DVD's. DVD Decrypter works fine for the SE's. I have used it to rip mine. If you want to do a full rip then use DVD Decrypter and the multi angle will be fine and the crawl won't be messed up. But if you want the movie for editing purposes then rip the full DVD with DVD Decrypter then import the ripped DVD into DVDShrink, chose "re-author", select the main title and the angle you want, set the compression to "no compression" then chose the language & subtitles you want to keep and export the DVD. This will give you the main movie only with only the language crawl you want

i can remember back to pre-'97 when the first rumours about the SE started floating around. It was a time when we had all grown up and a new generation had only ever seen it on VHS or on the TV. i, along with many of my friends, were really excited about being able to Star Wars again on the big screen, even though it would be a different version. We didn't care about this at all. I was able to take my 3 daughters to the cinema to experience what i had experienced when i was a kid. They loved it and so did i. there were some additions i didn't like, Greedo shooting first for instance, but they were minor niggles. Star Wars fandom hit a high again and no one i knew hated the SE trilogy at the time. A whole new generation became Star Wars fans. The VHS box set came out (i didn't have a laserdisc player back then) and it sat along side my OUT box set. I could happily watch both versions without any problem and the quality was the same.

But years later things turned sour.

The day GL said that the SE were now the definitive versions and that the OUT doesn't exist in his mind became the turning point for the hatred of the SE to begin. Minor niggles became hated additions.

Then we were told that the OUT would never be released ever again and only ever the SE. The hatred again grew among fans. Then the insult of the 2004 DVD set: terrible colouring, additions that were far worse than anything (apart from Han not being the only one to shoot, thus changing his character) that was added in '97, screwed up soundtracks that they tried to tell us that we were all wrong in that all the screw ups were a creative decision, but to top it all, the SE was now available with a high quality format (colouring aside) but the OUT was nowhere to be seen. Where was the high quality transfer the version that won all the awards and revolutionised the FX industry deserved? nowhere to be seen. Then the 30th anniversary was all but ignored

Now the SE was no longer the fun alternative to our beloved trilogy but something that became thrust down our throats as the only version  DVD quality, or higher, that was restored and we would ever be allowed to see.  Then the insult to top all insults happened: the GOUT. What a great way to thank all the loyal Star Wars fans that have been there from the start. I think not.

What happened to the company that always pushed for the best image & sound quality possible, setting industry standards? The Lucasfilm that existed pre '97 would never have released such a sub-standard product as the GOUT.

My point is this: If GL had acknowledged the fact that OUT is a masterpiece that should be preserved in the highest quality alongside the SE, with the SE just being a fun alternative experience, had released both versions in the same high quality and never said that the SE is the only version we are allowed to see, would there be the hatred for the SE that exists now? i would have to say no. You would either like the SE or not, but at least you could watch the OUT on your large screen TVs with great picture quality and chose to ignore the SE if you wish.

Way to go George. You locked yourself away in your little bubble surrounding yourself with "yes" men and lost touch of all reality. How can you ignore the things that gave you what you have today: the Fans and the OUT. Look what you accomplished with such a limited budget. You should be proud of that and not be ashamed that a few FX shots didn't look perfect or that you couldn't do a few things back then (i'm ignoring any additions to ESB or ROTJ here). It was a masterpiece with all its flaws. they didn't bother us back then and they don't bother us now.

With the Blu-Ray releases of movies like Close Encounters & Blade Runner on Blu-ray with all the different versions with the same high  quality transfer now available wouldn't this be the time to just thanks the fans for what they have given you and give us what we want?

So would anyone else not hate the SE as much as they do now if GL hadn't buried the OUT and told us that the SE will be the only version that will exsist from now on?

rlockhart said:

Adywan can anything be done with Lukes arm after he looses his hand like in the scene when he is hanging from the weather vein at Cloud City. The whole hand in the sleave thing.  

hopefully i can do something with that. Its probably the one thing that really bugs me about ESB.

Bingowings said:

I'm not sure if this particular piece of dialogue was ever recorded but in the Marvel comic adaptation of TESB Vader counters Luke's line of "You'll find I'm full of surprises" with "And I too".

I love this as it serves a duel purpose, firstly Vader counters Luke's moves with very little effort, so it serves as a warning to Luke, in Han's words to "Don't get cocky".

It also foreshadows the big revelation to come.

If it was never recorded perhaps it's possible to create the line by editing the line together from other sentences that Vader has said.

yeh, but you need to listen to that scene again. Listen to how Luke says the line. There is no possible way an extra line could be added. It just wouldn't sound right and there is no space for it.

Doubleofive & ImperialFighter, how are the pics coming along?

@satanika, that was funny. :)

pjvader said:

ady if its of any use to you i can confirm the sample worked on a samsung BD-p1500 uk blu ray player and a US ps3 with todays latest fw patch 30/7/08

 

Thats great news, thanks. I'm getting more HD storage next week so Ep4 should only be a couple of weeks away if i'm lucky

rlockhart said:

Adywan are you still set on 1080p if so then good.

yes. i'm having to do the colour correction in sections due to space limitations and it is going to take hell of a lot longer, but i want a HD version of this one. ESB has always been my favourite SW movie. Its the best of the lot and deserves to be HD

GhostAlpha26 said:

Ady, Im sure Im late but I couldnt find the dissucussion about it,  I just watched your 9min split screen preview, and is it your intention to remove all those scenes? i.e. the wampa scene and Han finding Luke?

that was just a few select scenes edited together to show the colour differences and not any editing choices i will be making.

suggestions should be posted in the main thread. i can't & won't answer any suggestions in here because it will just become cluttered and hard to keep track of everything

thanks

Something about that screams fake to me. if thats the prop used for the scene where he takes it off the kid then why hasn't it got the black "spot" detail on the underside disc that it has in the movie? Some of the wording too makes me a bit sceptical. The price is very steep and it seems that no proof of authenticity is provided.

kri kri said:

The NTSC posting on usenet says PAL - is this just an  incorrect labeling or am I really downloading the PAL version?

If it has PAL in the file names then it is the PAL version. For some reason the headers didn't change to the PAL version and kept the NTSC name (even though in yenc it was changed to PAL). The NTSC version is still in a.b.starwars

PaulisDead2221 said:

I didn't want to do an update until I had something new to show.  I got a few really good looking encodes going, and I wanted to post screenshots, but it could use some more tweaking.  I'm having an issue with a strange jitter every second.  Seems to be because Adobe Premiere reads my HD source as 23.00 fps instead of 24.  Right now I'm just working on reassociating some files and figuring out the jitter.  I'm only completely lost on a few things:

1) The opening matte lasers are proving to be kind of tough, I could either overlay the lasers from the opening of the GOUT, which would be idea, and authentic.  What I'll probably have to do though, is redo each one, which is fine, except the HD video moves so slow and all.

2) The opening crawl looks great, until it recedes about four lines up, and major aliasing appears on the edges.  I either need to learn to recreate the crawl on my own, in HD res or higher, to avoid aliasing, or put an antialiasing blur on the crawl four lines up.  Again, the only issue with either is the cumbersome work involved with HD running.

3) There's four transitional wipes that Premiere can't do because it won't feather the edges properly.  The four wipes include, R2 in the canyons, the wipe to Ben's hut, the wipe to the cliff overlooking Mos Eisley, and the wipe to the entry in Mos Eisley.  I've been looking for programs to do just those shots with, but can't seem to find a program my computer is up to par with, or a program that will do the wipes right, or that I can work up to the learning curve for.

Anyway, besides that, everything's going fine.  I have a small side project in which I'm trying to create an general approximation of the original six track mix.  Sources include the 2004 SE DVD 5.1 surround track, the 1997 SE 5.1 surround track, the stereo six track mix preservation from Belbucus, as well as the isolated score.  The idea is to repair/re-approximate/mix/rework the various mixes into a 5.1 experience of the original six track.

So it's still moving.  If anyone has any advice, or help, it would be greatly appreciated.  I might be able to post new screenshots in the next few days or so.

I had problems with Adobe premier. the actual problem is that you file will be 23.976 but adobe reads it as 23.98. a major problem with adobe products. The best way to sort it is to import your avi into Virtualdub and change the framerate to 25fps (its doesn't add any frames just changes the timing) and export using direct stream copy.chaneg your project to 25fps and same with the exported finished file. then you can import the finished video again into virtualdub and change the framerate back to 23.976. This works like a treat and no jitter problems.

For the wipes you can either use Adobe After effects and make the wipes yourself or use Sony Vegas as they have many of the wipes used in Star wars.

Fjodin said:

Does it possible to add At-At Barge into movie

Sorry, but no. i won't be adding anything from the EU

GoodMusician said:

the dvd quality makes his lips look clearer than the 780... how strange is that... and the hair by his ear looks clearer...

 

are you sure you put them in the right order?

 

Maybe the downconversion from 1080 is the problem... maybe something that'll preserve more quality...

 

 

Yeh, they're definitely in the correct order. Just look at the horizontal detail on his hat in the 720p version compared to it being non existent in the DVD version. The vertical detail may have been lost in the 720p pic due to the positioning in photoshop (maybe a 0.5 pixel difference which can cause the vertical detail to blur slightly.) but i wanted to show the horizontal detail in the hat so i didn't check that.

ImperialFighter said:

Adywan -  Just to clarify, do you mean you would still prefer this sequence featuring some 'mock-up' proposals, put on here, rather than GoodMusician's thread?

I know you didn't want a seperate one for them, and I'd suggested to doubleofive that we ask yourself and GoodMusician if we could perhaps put it at the end of his related Adywan's 'Empire' edit:SUMMARY CONTROL one, where the ideas are gathered in an at-a-glance manner.   Basically, because we wouldn't have been restricted with the screenshot sizes we then chose.  There are indeed 63 shots in total, but we have a compromise in sizes ready for this main thread if you still wish it on here.  We would show the 'mock-ups' at a certain moderate size, and the 'unaltered' ones would be done in a smaller 'thumbnail' manner.  This is still okay to show what I intended, and won't take long to scroll down past at the end of the day.

Thanks for offering to put a link to them on your first page, but that isn't really necessary, as it is really just something showing some ideas that you may or may not like, for you to consider along the way.  If we were indicated to put them on a seperate thread or GoodMusicians, we were just going to indicate on here where they were, so that everyone else could go to have a look too, if interested.  I can't wait to see what you end up putting in these 'mocked-up' areas yourself (if anything at all!), but it's just to show a couple of possibilities that don't need extensive, complicated work (easy for me to say!) for you to mull over.

Either way, the whole thing is very nearly ready, and I will make time to add the comments (or give them to doubleofive to also include for me) very soon, for you and others to have a look at.

If you can post the screenshots in here then that would be best then we can use GoodMusicans thread to remain as text based which will make things easier. Don't worry about the screenshot sizes. just post them whichever size you were going to post them

Darth Solo said:

*Sigh*

Thing is, to Mr. Joe Pubilc, I dont get the full HD, brand.

If my current set-up thats cost me a measly couple of grand, upscales a DVD9 and im happy with it, that doesnt outshine the lastest benchmark 'full HD' transfer in any major groundbreaking way, i ask, why now?  

There has not been anywhere near the impact of showing any of my friends a full HD movie, compaired to showing them YOUR Star Wars:Revisited (and most of them dont really 'get' Star Wars, but we all love movies). So, for me, why alter a formula you have already mastered? And, expecially if it makes some things youve mastered difficult, then why?

Dont for one second see DVD as old technology (as then the industry that gave us DRM has already won, and would we even been discussing this?), until im inevitably proved wrong (and i even buy most of their crap).

You still have HD encodes tackle it again when (A):storage is cheeper than it is now. (B):you have pushed your bounderies beyond your limitations. (3):Blu-Ray re-writable media maybe readily accessible. And, (IV):ultimatly, when Lucas film out-do you with their eventual, long way off, enough adopters of HD technology, release of their SE Blu-Ray original trilogy, that most of us will buy, but never really love, like what YOU can do now, why not out-do them using their HD source after they release it too all us suckers, and show them up a second time?

Well today i was pondering giving up on the 1080p transfer and switch back to the 720p version. I ran some tests to see how much detail would be lost when downconverting to 720p and i was surprised that there was a noticeable difference.  here's a screenshot that demonstrates what i mean. The DVD res & 720p has been upconverted to 1080p for a side by side comparison. Just look at the detail lost on his hat.

That's a noticable difference.Upconverting will never recover the lost detail no matter how good the upconverter is. So i think i'll just have to suffer the extra space and rendering time needed to retain this detail. Having a 1080p Tv myself i want the best quality for this edit .

I don't see DVD as old technology as there will still be DVD versions of this edit but i have HD technology and a HD version is what i want.

Something i did find out about HD is that the quality will always depend on what it is watched on. A mate of mine has a 1080p 42" samsung HDTV and was always moaning about how little difference there was between DVD through his PS3 and the Blu-Rays & AVCHDs he has watched on it. I was surprised by this so took my copy of the AVCHD i did of AOTC and i was shocked at how bad it looked on this Sammy (3 month old). I checked his settings on the TV and there was nothing wrong with them. So i told him to come round and see it on my 42" 1080p LG TV . needless to say he was a bit pissed off when he saw how good it looked on mine and now wishes he'd gone with the LG (like i had tried to tell him before). Even on my next door neighbours Sony Bravia 42" its wasn't as clear (but close) as on mine.

ben_danger said:

makes sense. one thread to rule them all...

 

personally id prefer to see it on the terminal, it would most likely get buried in this thread and lost within a few days.:P

I can post a link to the screenshots on the first page so it will be asy for anyone to find them

PaulisDead2221 said:

Perhaps if you decide to go back to a 480p release, you can encode the HD color corrected work at 480p, and start on that as your master file.  There shouldn't be any quality loss, since it's been down-converted from a 1080p source, and it would free up a ton of space, and speed up rendering time, having excised the multiple layers of color passes.  Of course it wouldn't be free of further tweaking after the first few passes, but it seems as though it would free up a lot of work.

The thing is, now i've seen what the 1080p looks like and the fact that i can make an AVCHD DVD-9 that will play in its 1080p glory on my PS3 there is no way i can go back to lower res. i'll just have to put up with the slow render rate and the extra space needed. If the HD versions had been around a few years ago the ANH:R would have been HD too (and maybe once the saga is complete it will be)

Josh said:

I Will start adding to the input train once Ady say's he's done the color work. Untill then, I will sit down with A cup of Blue Milk and read on!

I think its going to be a long time yet before the colour work is done. Hard drive space is a huge factor with this along with rendering times. I've almost finished the first pass colour correction on ESB.  Rendering times are horrendous even with a quad core. Its taking 17mins per 1 minute of footage on average. But thats down to the amount of colour filters i'm using. Now the resulting size is a major issue too. almost 300gb per render which is eating up any space i had. So i have to use 1 uncorrected layer, 1st pass colour corrected layer, colour correction mask layers, final colour corrected layer then output to the final render with all editing done. So thats around 1.5TB needed just for the main video layers alone. On top of that there are all the minor tweaks to some shots after tha correction passes are done. So it all mounts up. I just haven't got enough space at the moment so i'm trying to free up some, if i can, or i'll have to get more storage space.

Maybe switching to 1080p wasn't such a good idea after all

Bingowings said:

Further to my previous post, is there anything that can be done to matte paintings like the one I mentioned (other than time consuming CGI replacements)? I'm not sure if that one and the similar one in ROTJ look so bad because of the painting or whether is just the way it was composited with the live action footage (other paintings work beautifully throughout the saga). Viewing that particular scene again I'm not even sure if the scene is essential and perhaps the easiest clean up is just to remove it alltogether.

I'm also divided as to whether Empire would be better starting with the Star Destroyer slowly crawling overhead as in ANH and ROTJ (only not getting cut off as in Jedi) or leaving it as it is.

The Star Destroyer does look a bit lost and lonely in that opening shot.

Another possible option would roll down from the scroll to reveal the surface of Hoth and then see the Star Destroyer jump into the system (possibly with a few back up ships) in one shot rather than just have the poor dear hanging there.

I see no problem with the stardestroyer at the beginning. It is, after all, deploying several probe droids. I think that the Empire would scatter the Stardestroyers throughout the galaxy to give the widest search range for the probes, so it would be on its own.It also wouldn't make sense having the stardestroyer jump out of hyperspace above Hoth at the beginning because the rebels would have been alerted immediately to the imperials presence which would contradict most of the first part of the movie

I am going to be trying to do something with all the matte paintings in the movie. The main problem with the live action with the paintings is because using old bluescreen technology, the mate edges are very harsh and this makes any movement in front of the painting looks strange because any of the motion blur edges are gone.

MoveAlong said:

Agreed. Getting back on topic... Ady, how's the progress coming along?

Slowly. Hard drive space is a huge factor with this along with rendering times. I've almost finished the fist pass colour correction on ESB. I started with that one first because of my revisited project. Rendering times are horrendous even with a quad core. Its taking 17mins per 1 minute of footage on average. But thats down to the amount of colour filters i'm using. Now the resulting size is a major issue too. almost 300gb per render which is eating up any space i had. So i have to use 1 uncorrected layer, 1st pass colour corrected layer, colour correction mask layers, final colour corrected layer then output to the final render with all editing done. So thats around 1.5TB needed just for the main video layers alone. On top of that there are all the minor tweaks to some shots after tha correction passes are done. So it all mounts up. I just haven't got enough space at the moment so i'm trying to free up some, if i can, or i'll have to get more storage space.

vbangle said:

I'm confused, what was this thread about again?

I was actually starting to think the same thing. lol. I'm pretty sure this project was a AVCHD for PS3 & Blu-ray players and not a HD-DVD thread. Negative1, if you are going to be doing your own seperate HD-DVD prtoject then maybe you could start a seperate thread about that. It would be more beneficial to people with HD-DVD players as they may not check this thread because its for Blu-Ray.

Sevb32 said:

I just said that so someone would prove me wrong today. lol

lol

Sevb32 said:

DEAD THREAD

Sevb32, what the hell are you talking about? How is this a dead thread? I posted here yesterday and added new screenshots the same day. I can't be here 24/7. i have had a great deal to do with the colour correction and have just started to render the first pass (which is estimated by after effects to take 47 hours to finish so far). So please stop posting such stupid remarks like that.

Don' make me angry. you won't like me when i'm angry.

lol

AuggieBenDoggie said:

Ady; just curious, is the HD version the only version thats going to use the x264 codec?

yes.

Octorox said:

greedo said:

ady already answered that somewhere. basically u can extract it somehow.

Yeah but to fit on the dvd9 it already has to be compressed into a smaller size. I think 3 hours of HD footage would be more than 8 gigs...

3 hours? ESB is only just over 2 hours. Using the x264 codec and using the correct settings you can convert the 17GB original to 8GB and you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in quality. Don't forget that the Star Wars HD releases are all from TV broadcasts and are nowhere near as good as an original Blu-ray version would be. It just isn't worth doing a higher sized release for a very very slight difference in quality