adywan

Vaderisnothayden said:

adywan said:

Ok direct from starwars.com:

There. the Jabba scenes were never finished and never in any version of the movie. So how could these people have seen it in this extended cut? one urban myth ended.

and about the Biggs footage:

http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.com/swcs/episode4/Biggs.html

accept it. this whole "extended cut" of star wars never existed. It is just an urban myth.

I know the official account that the Jabba scene wasn't in the final cut because Lucas couldn't get the creature for it, but I don't trust that account. See my first post on this page. I address reasons for questioning that account. It's not that I think the scene was in there, but when there's any reason to doubt the account and people are claiming to have seen it, questions are raised.

Re the Biggs footage, that article only addresses the Tatooine Biggs scene, not the Yavin one which the Star Wars Unauthorized Compendium says was in the film.

Also, the article claims the Biggs Tatooine scene was never shown in public, but on what are they basing that claim? The previous thing you posted implied that scene WAS shown in public at previews and was only deleted after the previews, so I don't know if we can trust the claim that it was never shown in public. Also, they say the sound mix wasn't finished and the scene was only in rough cuts. But if they're wrong about it being shown in public they could be wrong about that. And I don't know, maybe somehow a roough cut could have gotten out.

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass about this, I'm just concerned with what happened and I don't see justification for dismissing these claims outright. The official accounts can be wrong and I don't trust Lucas and co.

Thanks for the info, anyway. :)

You seem to be totally misreading what i posted. The article never said it was shown in public. it was a private preview screening which was for "Hollywood heavies", which was the fox execs and also the guy from Marvel. it clearly states it was in Lucas' private screening room. You need to read that again. No where does it say it was shown to the public.

If you read it the screening in the first quote was a very rough one and it mentioned that the scene with Biggs and Luke friends had been cut. Maybe in this one the other 2 biggs scenes ( where he tells him that's he is going to join the rebels and the Yavin temple scene) were intact. but the second one seems to be a final screening and then the rest of the Biggs scenes were cut. It all fits.

The novel & the Marvel comic had these scenes, including the grappling hook, intact. the illustrated storybook had pictures of the opening tredwell scene and biggs on Tatooine. Then the Radio play brought these scenes to life (apart from the grappling hook). the evidence is all there that its a myth, but it seems to me that even if hard evidence is produced then some people still wouldn't believe it.

Ok direct from starwars.com:

Before he became the fat loathsome slug that we recognize Jabba as in Return of the Jedi, Jabba was referred to as a "Hut," and looked quite different. In the 1977 version of A New Hope, there was to be a confrontation between Han Solo and Jabba that was filmed, but it was never completed to make the final release.

The script establishes Jabba to be a large, repulsive creature, an effect that George Lucas could not realize at the time. He is described as a "fat, slug-like creature with eyes on extended feelers and a huge ugly mouth." The scene was filmed with a stand-in actor, Declan Mulholland. It would be over 20 years later that this scene was finally completed. The Special Edition of A New Hope featured a computer-generated Jabba replacement for Mulholland.

In the Marvel Comics adaptation of Star Wars, the confrontation remains intact, but Jabba is a tall humanoid with a walrus-like face, a scraggly topknot, and a bright uniform. The Marvel artists used a variation of Mosep, one of Jabba's underlings, glimpsed as an extra in the Mos Eisley scenes.

There. the Jabba scenes were never finished and never in any version of the movie. So how could these people have seen it in this extended cut? one urban myth ended.

and about the Biggs footage:

http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.com/swcs/episode4/Biggs.html

accept it. this whole "extended cut" of star wars never existed. It is just an urban myth.

Ok well maybe this will shed some light on all this:

From Starlog #120, July 1987: 

This issue was dedicated to the 10th anniversary of "Star Wars." In
it, there is an article by Roy Thomas entitled, "How I Learned to Stop
Worrying and Love 'Star Wars' (Within Limits)" (nice "Strangelove"
homage), which features his recollections of working on the "Star
Wars" comics for Marvel.

"...anyhow, soon Howard, Steve and I were sitting in the front row in
George's private screening room while the Hollywood heavies slouched
further back with George, and the rough cut began.
     It opened with a 'crawl' of copy meant to suggest the old Flash
Gordon serials that had influenced the movie. But this was NOT the
crawl with which moviegoers are now familiar, nor was there any 'Long
ago, in a galaxy far, far away' lead-in. Rather, the crawl consisted
of totally different copy telling the movie's backstory. (If you want
to know what it said, all you have to do is pick up a back issue of
Marvel's "Star Wars" #1, since the caption there was taken from that
original crawl. George evidently had last-minute thoughts and changed
it just before the opening. In fact, one ILM worker told me that the
story was that, on opening day, George would probably be in the
projection booth at Mann's, pasting on some last bit of film.) [NOTE:
Original crawl text follows this entry.]

Original opening crawl as published in the Marvel adaption of "Star
Wars" #1:

"It is a period of CIVIL WAR in the galaxy. A brave Alliance of
UNDERGROUND FREEDOM FIGHTERS has challenged the tyranny and oppression
of the awesome GALACTIC EMPIRE. To crush the rebellion once and for
all, the EMPIRE is constructing a sinister new BATTLE STATION.
Powerful enough to destroy an entire planet, its COMPLETION will spell
CERTAIN DOOM for the champions of freedom. Striking from a fortress
hidden among the billion stars of the galaxy, REBEL SPACESHIPS have
won their first victory in a battle with the powerful IMPERIAL
STARFLEET. The Empire fears that ANOTHER defeat could bring a THOUSAND
MORE solar systems into the rebellion, and IMPERIAL CONTROL over the
galaxy would be LOST FOREVER."

     Then in came the spaceships. Even in the rough cut and on a
relatively small screen, it was an impressive beginning, and I was
only moderately surprised months later at Mann's Chinese to hear the
shocked gasp of the audience when Big Ship came after Little Ship.
     Next, the fight: stormtroopers vs. rebels. But there were no rays
zipping back and forth across the screen in San Anselmo. Just the
flicker of hand-drawn arrows on the film, to show where the FX would
go.
     Soon, Darth Vader came on and began to speak--with a British
accent. (This was actor David Prowse's own voice, before James Earl
Jones' sepulchral tones were laid in.)
     The movie went on. I noted with chagrin that one scene in the
script--between Luke and some childhood chums, near the beginning--had
been CUT, though it was currently being printed in the comic's first
issue. (And a few irate readers would later castigate us for inserting
things into 'George's Movie.')"

From Screen Superstar magazine #8, "Star Wars: the Full Story," 1977:

"His editors, including his wife, Marcia (Lucas' daughters had earlier
appeared in the film as Jawas), had put together a rough cut. With
Lucas they trimmed it down to preview size. And the previews were VERY
successful. Excitement spread at Twentieth, and through the movie
colony--Lucas had a winner!
     But winner or not, Lucas still wasn't entirely satisfied. The
film ran for over two hours (123 minutes), and Lucas wanted maximum
audience turnover. Thus, the film had to be UNDER two hours, so back
went Lucas and the editors, and six minutes of Biggs Darklighter,
Luke's boyhood pal and fellow rebel pilot, were trashed. The film was
finished."

There. The previews were only shown in private to a select audience (fox & Marvel among them)and even when before Vaders voice and the crawl we all know was finished, including any laser FX and others, all the Biggs scenes were cut. No one would have seen these scenes at the cinema. If they did then they would have heard Dave Prowse's voice as Vader, and no one mentioned that. As you can see from the article the comic was out before the movie was even finished and the first version he saw was the final rough cut and was surprised that all the Biggs scenes were cut. he said he was surprised because they were in the script and not that he had already seen them. Marvel worked from a script to produce the comic and never saw the movie prior to doing the comic. Also, in the comic, Han never met Jabba but instead had a conversation with a different creature. If Jabba had been in the film and the Marvel guys had seen a cut of the film with him in surely he would have been a human?

The comic and the novel came out months before ANH was released at the cinema. Also how old were the people who say they saw these scenes in 1977? Its exactly the same as people who swear they saw some X-wings with blue stripes and that there was comlink chatter from blue squadron. It was in the novels, along with the double grappling throw, that was never in the movie at all.

It's all just an urban myth.

Vaderisnothayden said:

adywan said:

Hasn't this already been debunked because it was never even filmed? So how the hell could they have seen it? It was the same with ESB when people swore that they saw the Wampa drag Luke off and attack the rebel base. Yet again they scrapped that idea during filming so how the hell would it end up finished in a theatre showing?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_scenes_cut_from_Star_Wars_Episode_V:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back

It looks like some of those scenes were filmed. They've got photos there of Luke manning a gun in the base, seemingly against wampas and a tauntaun dead in the base seemingly killed by wampas.

ESB was a different thing all together. The 70mm version and the 35mm were different, with the 70mm version being slightly shorter. The 35mm was the final cut, with a few extra shots and some differing fx, audio and wipes. This i saw, along with many other people and has been documented. Strangely enough, if you think about it, the 70mm version is actually the original, with the 35mm which we all know and love is actually a special edition. lol

See here:

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2003/empire/index.htm

It sounds from that like the 70mm was the final version. That's the version they used for the SE I think. It has a few extra lines.

that shot of luke is just a publicity photo and wasn't to be part of the movie. the wampas attacked the base while Luke was recovering in the medical bay early in the movie (may have even been before Han found Luke, but i haven't got the original script or the novel at hand at the moment). The creature just didn't work and the idea was scrapped during filming, so although scenes were shot hoping that they could fix the wampa problem these scenes never made it into any released cut of the movie.

And only some audio differences were used from the 70mm for the SE. the 70mm wasn't the final version as Lucas ordered a few extra fx shots of the falcon at the end amongst others. The 70mm was the first version with the 35mm being the final version, prior to 1977

The Golden Idol said:

Anyways, Ady, what are you working on now?

 

I'm really looking forward to seeing that "Yoda with CGI emotes" test clip. Is it coming soon?

Just putting the finishing touches to the colour correction. I have about 15 or so shots left to do. Hopefully it will be finished by the end of next week and the 1080p AVCHD version should be out a short time after. I won't be doing any FX work until after Christmas because i still need to plan a few things out and Christmas is a pretty busy time for me, so no new shots until the New Year.

rcb said:

i believe anakin was twenty, while padme was twenty four.

 i think george was trying to go back to like a romeo and juliet or some type of shakespear in the movie. if you've read the novel for episode I, anakin says he's one day gonna marry padme. what the hell is that? that is the corniest line for a ten year old and i'm glad it wasn't in the movie.

I also agree with rcb that GL was going for the Romeo & Juliet style for their romance. Just listen to the dialogue and the way it is spoken in the fireplace scene. very Shakespearean in its tone.

rcb said:

srry, i met EU. its the last thing adywan mentions on his edits for the film. he says, "The EU doesn't exist to me anymore"

Expanded universe.

Hunter6 said:

Yes, there was an Extended original cut of first film which was about 15 or 20 minutes longer and yes, a little group of theaters showed it, but not long.  It was pulled after two showings on opening today. Lucas has turned this little thing into an urban legend. Some of the Usenet posters are telling the truth. No one could have seen it many times because they all were pulled. It also was missing some effects and the lightsaber effects were odd. It was not the greatest way to see star wars for the first. The only good thing about it is Vader use more force powers and acts more cocky in the original cut. I think one day Lucas will add some of these back in some type of new SE.
    the Marvel comic adaption of Star Wars shows visual details that are only in the original cut. Which make me think the people who work on the Marvel comic adaption of Star Wars saw this cut of the film because the comic visual matches those scenes. How did the artists of the Marvel comic draw things just like how they are in the deleted scenes if they did not see a type of original cut of the film. The screenplay would not show how the actors stood and moved in those scenes.
    This is one Urban Legend which is real. 
    hell, one day in the future Lucas may try to make it seem like the OOT was all in people's heads too and that the SE versions were the original ones.

The Marvel comics didn't see an early cut of the film at all. They were given the script (or draft of the novel)and many, many, if not all, of the publicity & on set stills taken to work with. Comic artists of the 70's were given still material to work with and that's it.  Just look at many of the comic adaptation pics and you'll see that there are so many that look exactly like the publicity stills and not from the movie.They would have worked on the comic many months in advance of its release and well before any final cut of the movie which is why the cut scenes appear. Don't forget that they were working on star wars right up until the last minute. Its just an urban legend that isn't true. How many people have said that they saw luke throw the grappling hook twice, with the first time missing its target? Hasn't this already been debunked because it was never even filmed? So how the hell could they have seen it? It was the same with ESB when people swore that they saw the Wampa drag Luke off and attack the rebel base. Yet again they scrapped that idea during filming so how the hell would it end up finished in a theatre showing?

People remember many things because they saw it in the comic books, heard or read someone else mention it or read it in the novels.

There was only one cut of ANH but with different soundtracks. thats the only difference in that movie. Remember that Star Wars wasn't really favoured by the movie studio and Lucas would not have had the money (and Fox certainly wouldn't ahve given him and more) to be able to do any more than one finished print of the movie for replication and distribution. And the "Lost Cut" exists only in Black & white form in Lucas' vaults. A colour print was supposedly never done and had the world war 2 footage instead of FX. Check the deleted scenes on behind the magic. Its all on set audio. No dubbing work had been done. If these scenes had been originally in this pulled version they would have had the finished audio.

ESB was a different thing all together. The 70mm version and the 35mm were different, with the 70mm version being slightly shorter. The 35mm was the final cut, with a few extra shots and some differing fx, audio and wipes. This i saw, along with many other people and has been documented. Strangely enough, if you think about it, the 70mm version is actually the original, with the 35mm which we all know and love is actually a special edition. lol

Here is an article i found on the net:

  A controversy “Star Wars” has generated over the years is whether or not any scenes were added to or deleted from the film after the initial batch of prints were released to theatres.  Many fans insist changes were made, all of which Lucasfilm representatives have denied in print and at many science-fiction and comic book conventions.  Fan recollections vary wildly and range from additional scenes featuring Luke Skywalker and friend Biggs Darklighter, to an encounter with Jabba the Hutt, to a brief bit with Chewbacca not scaring off the Death Star's Mouse Robot, to a single shot of Luke throwing his grappling hook and missing before throwing a second time successfully so he and Princess Leia could swing across the Death Star chasm.

While there is no doubt that the Jabba the Hutt scene and three scenes set on Tatooine early in the movie featuring Luke (two of which included Biggs) were deleted before the release, “The Unauthorized Star Wars Compendium” includes a claim that the Luke-Biggs reunion scene in the Rebel Hanger appeared in the original 1977 prints, only to be deleted for the 1979 re-release, then re-instated for the 1997 Special Edition.  (The author of “The Unauthorized Star Wars Compendium” declined to be interviewed for this article.)

Deleted Scene – Luke Reunited With Biggs

Memory can be a strange thing, and while it has been difficult to confirm changes made to the film, an explanation for fans’ recollections of seeing things can be traced to the movie's assortment of tie-in publications and merchandise.  For example, the Ballantine novel, the Marvel comic book adaptation, the Topps bubblegum card series, the documentary “The Making Of Star Wars,” and the books “The Star Wars Storybook” and “The Art Of Star Wars” all featured text, photos, footage, or cartoon renditions of scenes scripted and/or shot. Combined with the lack of availability of a (legal) version of “Star Wars” on home video formats until five years following the original theatrical release, one can see how anyone with a vivid imagination can convince themselves that they saw footage that may have never appeared in a theatrical presentation of the movie.

Rhikter said:

Everyone need to go to www.woot.com right now!!!!

From www.woot.com 11/21/2008

Star Wars Vault: 30 Years of Treasures From the Lucasfilm Archives

$24.99 + $5 shipping

condition: New

product: 1 Star Wars Vault 30 Years of Treasures w/ Removable Memorabilia & 2 audio CDs

Because We Couldn’t Get Greedo

Heydey ho, yousan! Mesa here to tell yousan bout dis Star Wars Vault box set! Deysa spake itsa “30 Years of Treasures From de Lucasfilm Archives”, and deysa point is well seen! Posters, iron-ons, copies of handwritten script pages, and a maxibig book wit behind-de-scenes photos from all de movies, some dem never before published! Itsa also 2 CDs wit vintage radio ads, original cast interviews, excerpts from de Star Wars radio drama, and other tracks – including Princess Leia song from de bombad Christmas special! Mesa had like dis Christmas special so mooey mooey, but itsa so expensive on eBay!

(My enjoy dis memorabilia whilesa me wear mesa Let The Cookie Win t-shirt, but my not sure whysa.)

 

Yeah, so dis Star Wars Vaultsa maxihot, but my have one question: wheresa mesa? Whysa me not on de cover? Whena mesa boyo George had hire mesa to be in hesan movie, hesa had say my be maxibig star dat all de people like! Some stinkowiff fanso try to crunch mesa: dem say mesa annoying, mesa borderline racist caricature, mesa cheap ploy fe younger audiences, mesa mek dem movies jump de shark. How wude! But mesa boyo say dem fanboyso cawazy. My know: hesa ganna make new Vault all mesa own! My can’t wait! Ooey booey! Fe now, yousan mus’ be satisfied wit dis Star Wars Vault, okeeday? Byesy-bo!

Warranty: 90 Day Woot Limited Warranty

Features:

• The official illustrated book celebrating the 30th anniversary of George Lucas' first Star Wars movie
• "The Star Wars Vault" is the insider's look at the development and making of all six movies, and the huge cultural impact they've had.
• In addition to hundreds of photos and pieces of artwork, the book includes fifty interactive, rare, and some never-before-seen pieces of memorabilia.
• "The Star Wars Vault" is the ultimate, one-of-a-kind insider's look into the sensation that launched a phenomenon that includes six feature films; two spin-off films; three television series with more to come; and an extensive collection of licensed books, comics, video games, action figures, trading cards, and many other products worldwide.
• Includes fifty interactive, rare and some never-before-published memorabilia, including reproductions of Lucas’s own handwritten script pages, flip-though catalogs, swag, posters, T-shirt transfers, stickers, blueprints, production notes, animation cels, and much more
• Includes 2 CDs containing over 2 hours of vintage radio ads, original cast interviews, excerpts from the NPR Star Wars radio drama, Carrie Fisher’s Holiday Special performance of Princess Leia’s song, George Lucas’s commentary, and other tracks that tell the story of everyone’s favorite galactic saga as never before
• Unique and unprecedented history and tribute to the Star Wars films
• Comes in a protective hardcover box
• Hardcover: 128 pages
• Publisher: HarperEntertainment (October 30, 2007)
• Product Dimensions: 13.4 x 11.6 x 1.8 inches
• Shipping Weight: 5.8 pounds

In the box:

• Star Wars Vault 30 Years of Treasures From the Lucasfilm Archives
• Fifty interactive, rare and some never-before-published memorabilia
• 2 audio CDs
• Protective hardcover box

I got that for Xmas last year. Not too bad really

I know. Just saw this myself. A very worrying time if the MPAA has started going after fan edits.

Some good news. ESB AVCHD should be finished in the next couple of weeks, maybe sooner :)

Rockvoice said:

adywan said:

No, the framerate should have no impact on playability with the second layer. Here's what i do: after creating the video with Megui, i use TSMuxer to create the blu-ray folders and then IMGburn to burnboth the the folders, using udf 2.50

 

Thanks, but that is EXACLTY the way I do it. I use Nero 9 instead of IMGburn for buring the files on an udf 2.50 DVD. This is strange... perhaps a problem with my DVD-burning drive.

In case of the framerate: I noticed that even most of the Blurays are not 24.00 but 23.97 fps - so logically it would not make sense for 23,97 fps-AVCHDs to cause any problems.

 

Ah, thats exactly where your problem is. Neros udf 2.50 is messed up and does cause a lot of problems with DL. Burn with IMGburn and you'll have no problems

Well someone just sent me a clip from a 1up fm podcast interview with Kyle Newman, director of the soon to be released Fanboys. They are talking about TPM then switch to fan edits and he mentions mine (although he calls it the ultimate edition. lol). It's pretty weird hearing someone like Kyle talk about me edit especially when i'm so excited about going to see Fanboys next year.

kyle_Newman_interview_clip.mp3

negative1 said:

i'm not telling you anything..

i'm speculating that the renewed interest in the Star Wars trilogy is DUE to the fact

the SE versions came out with great success in revitalizing the interest that had almost

completely died out before that.... are you saying all star wars fans kept up their

interest until 1997?????????????????????????????????? if so, why, when there was

nothing new to look forward to..

how many people would have gone to see a 'restored' version of the movie in the theater,

it would have been an even more limited run, and maybe just an arthouse showing, who

knows? it was already out on VHS/CED/LASERDISC, so its not like it wasn't available..

 

and how many people would have bought it just on DVD, if they hadn't seen it in the theaters?

we won't know will we... but apparently there was a HUGE demand after it was shown (SE

versions) in the theaters.... good marketing of course...   yeah, sure there would have been the tiny amount of hardcore fans

here, and maybe from the star wars sites... but that's about it.....

what do you think, if miraculously Lucas decides to allow the GOUT, or OOT to be

shown in the theaters again... how many records at the box office would they break?

 

absolutely none.......................

 

now show the same movies again in 3-D and at least you can renew the interest

again, and maybe NOT set a box office record, but introduce yet ANOTHER GENERATION

of fans to the movies..

 

it's all about marketing, and not about art.....sad to say..

 

later

-1

 

Ok, well here's something for you. In 1995 my local cinema did a one week classic film season. It was originally supposed to run from Monday until the Friday. I can' t remember all the films that were to be shown but i can remember that ANH was to be shown on the Friday. Each film was to have only 1 showing at 7pm. Now Star Wars received so much interest they decided to give it 2 showings. Tickets sold out in the first couple of days. So they had to put more showings on. again they sold out. in the end they had 5 showings on Friday and added 3 more on the Saturday. all completely sold out. the only film in that week that had packed houses ( and i know because i was dating the assistant manageress at the time). This wasn't a small arthouse cinema either. Now i was able to take my 3 kids to see star wars on the big screen. Even though they had seen it countless times on VHS they still loved seeing it in the cinema.

Now my generation, who had seen Star Wars in 1977 in the cinemas, now had kids and they were taking them to see it. It was evident at the showing i went to see with just how many kids were there. So your argument that only hardcore fans would have gone to see the OT compared to the SE hold no ground based on that. Sure there were the minority that went to see it just to see the changes, but they were probably the same hardcore Star Wars fans that would have gone to see it on the big screen regardless of the changes. Do you really think that the few added changed that were done for the SE is what made Star Wars popular again? Are you sure you lived on this planet in 1997? The buzz wasn't that they were different versions of the films but the fact that Star Wars was getting a wide release showing at the cinema again.

So you think that adding the new shots made it the world wide hit that it became again? Well rubbish. Close encounters, for example, was re-released as a special edition. Its first run in 1978 was successful, its SE release wasn't.  Hell, when i went to see that on its opening day the cinema was almost empty.

My generation were taking their kids, who in turn were going with their friends boosting ticket sales.

It was because it was Star Wars, not because it was a special edition.

Rockvoice said:

Hey there!

Amazing work! I've done a lot of AVCHD rendering with output for DVD-9 but this one works best.

 

I rendered TESB and ROTJ for AVCHD, and after adding borders (to fit 1920x1080) I used MeGui and some other stuff to have it on a Dual Layer DVD.

Of course my version does not have colour correction or whatsoever - I started it BEFORE I found this thread here...

 

Here's what I find interesting:

I used the same Dual Layer DVD-R's and the same burnig tool for your ANH and my TESB, but as soon as the player reads from the second layer your ANH works fine and my TESB has major problems with FF and FR and even with switching chapters.

I have not the least idea why. I thought this would be a reason of the brand of DVD-Rs you use or the player you use, but in this case...

The only thing I noticed is that your ANH is exactly 24.00 fps and my TESB is 23.97 fps - no idea if that causes the problems on second layer...

 

No, the framerate should have no impact on playability with the second layer. Here's what i do: after creating the video with Megui, i use TSMuxer to create the blu-ray folders and then IMGburn to burnboth the the folders, using udf 2.50

budwhite said:

So is it Ian's voice in the new emperor scene? The old emperor never bothered me but the old voice is pretty lame

No. It's the original Clive Reville voice becuase these versions are the pre-2004 theatrical SE versions

Oldfan said:

I will miss the spinning starfield, but Adywan has said that he is planning a different fx shot in its place, so I'm sure it will work out fine.

Adywan, I had a question for you. I'm pretty sure you mentioned a while back that you won't be altering the music in Empire. I would agree with you there that the music was a masterpiece, and does not require any work. However, I have just finished watching the Editdroid disc 4 you posted, and I was very intrigued with the alternate audio cues that were included as extras. For those that have not seen this disc, there is almost an hour worth of scenes from the original trilogy featuring the original music cues that were composed for the scenes. As it said on the disc, for various reasons, like pacing, editing decisions, or simply mood, several music cues were changed, deleted, or trimmed in various scenes. There were 17 scenes featured from Empire, and the disc showed the restored scenes, as best as possible, with the original music, along with the final theatrical version for comparison. It was quite interesting to hear the music that we are all familiar with actually in the scenes they were recorded for. I'd imagine that you wouldn't want to restore all of that music, as it was changed for a reason. But I wondered if you would be interested in taking a look at those scenes, just in case something jumped out at you. I figured that since this was music composed for the film, it would entirely fit in, and I especially liked "Imperial Fleet", the original Imperial March intro when you first see Darth Vader (the version that was actually used was composed as a "concert rendition", only to be heard on the official soundtrack album). I also loved a few of the scenes that originally erupted in various versions of the Imperial March during transitions to other scenes, like "Fleet Transition" and "Needa/Piggyback". We have all heard these bits for ages on the soundtracks, but to hear it in the film is amazing.

I'm not sure if it is possible to restore some of these without altering the scenes, but there are a few cues that I'm pretty sure you could fit right back in, if you wanted to. Just a thought that ocurred to me while watching the scenes.

 

Funnily enough, i was watching disc 4 the other day and i was thinking about doing something with the unused cues. What i have decided is that, for the DVD-9 version of ESB:R i will be doing an extra alternate audio track that will have all the cues integrated back into the movie

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

On another note, is anyone in the UK going to Memorabilia in Birmingham this weekend? I'm taking my daughter and her sister and i was thinking of taking a couple of signed copies of ANH:R with me to give away

That would be awesome.  How would anyone who's not your friend on Facebook know who to look for?

I was going to put up a few clues so it would be easy to recognise me.  There are a few of the Star Wars cast there. So far there is KENNY BAKER, JEREMY BULLOCH, WARWICK DAVIS, MICHAEL CULVER (captain Needa), KEN COLLEY (Piett) & Julian Glover (Veers).

ImperialFighter said:

By the way Adywan, I don't think this has been brought up yet, but I really hope you will incorporate one or two of your subtle 'sun glare reflections' into this edit, as the one you did in the 'escape pod approaching Tattooine' shot was terrific, and really added to the look of that scene.  Perhaps in the 'snowspeeder searching for Han and Luke on Hoth' scene, as it's bright and sunny then, or during the sunset scenes as the MF nears Bespin....

They might be making an appearance or two, yes :)

Monroville said:

adywan said:

The spinning starfield is going to go, i'm afraid. It happens in ANH & ESB only. It was gone in ANH:R and i will be doing the same for the one time it appears for ESB:R

that is a bummer, man! (to quote The Dude)

Would you consider having the stars do the streaky thing at least?  I just find the non-spinning, non-anything with the stars do not give the appropriate indication that said MF is moving really, really fast.

yes, the stars will still do the "streaky thing".

Darth Stewie, I was just looking at that clip again and it was mentioned that the first wipe is a bit jarring. Well i think i may have an idea. At the moment you have the iris coming outwards. Well, if you reverse that wipe and have it going inwards then it will almost follow the path of the probe and blend in better with the next shot. Just an idea

The spinning starfield is going to go, i'm afraid. It happens in ANH & ESB only. It was gone in ANH:R and i will be doing the same for the one time it appears for ESB:R

Monroville, the footage used in that youtube clip by Darth Stewie (good to see you back by the way stewie)  is all from ESB:R , so all my FX. I'm planing a different FX shot for when the falcon escapes into hyperspace at the end, so the spinning starfield won't work.

Now i also won't be cutting any of 3PO's lines in ESB:R. In fact i'm hoping to reinstate the original full line "I'm not ready to die..on the back of a demented Wookie" that was omitted from the 35mm & home video releases. It cuts off horribly the way it is now and sounds unnatural.

Now the thread seems to be getting a bit too argumentative , with everything thats been going on lately. I think we all need to calm down and take a step back. Things are getting really side tracked. Lets all go to our happy place. lol

On another note, is anyone in the UK going to Memorabilia in Birmingham this weekend? I'm taking my daughter and her sister and i was thinking of taking a couple of signed copies of ANH:R with me to give away

All 4 are now available in alt.binaries.starwars

negative1 said:

Ziz said:

Player prices are starting to come down. Saw a Sylvania unit at BJ's today for $199.

 

still not worth it...

no point in supporting an overpriced format...

later

-1

I expected you to say something like that with you being being a HD-DVD supporter. I'd rather support , what you call, an over-priced format than a dead one. lol

Actually blu-ray isn't overpriced at all. Players and discs are coming down in price all the time. Its only been out for a couple of years and prices are about in line with what DVD was when that format came out. I can remember when DVD's were almost £30 when they first came out. My first DVD player was £250 and that was a few years after the format came out. Blu-Ray players can be found for under £200 now. Up until a couple of years ago double disc edition DVD's were still priced at around £19 and Blu-rays are already around that price now and even cheeper, so Blu-Ray is actually better value now compared to when DVD's first came out.

Kurgan, this is going beyond silly now. The examples you give with the TIE colouring mean absolutely nothing.  You have boosted the saturation (not contrast) of a model that originally had the correct colour and not one that was recoloured in post production. The panels remain black which is the way they were supposed to be. But like i have said before the colouring was added in post production and tinted the panels blue (which is more like the right hand picture but done a different way and not as extreme). You keep pushing that "you are right and i'm going to totally ruin the edit by making the TIEs grey" thing until it becomes troll like. And then you say that someone can recolour the TIES in a new edit after mine is finished. But that wouldn't be a new edit at all. It would just be recolouring TIEs, which is something i wouldn't be too happy with. If you want the TIEs blue then just watch the SE colour corrected version i will be releasing soon. You are becoming obsessed with this whole colour thing. Just let it go man before it eats you up. lol

I haven't even started the FX stage of things yet and things could change. I just don't know yet until i start that phase. but i'm just stating in advance that i prefer the grey look to the TIEs.

You mention in the thread you started that it wouldn't be that hard to recolour the TIEs correctly. I tried to explain just how hard and time consuming it would be but you just ignore that and continue. If its so bloody easy then why don't you do a complete scene with correctly coloured TIEs, without using new CGI models or using a blanket colour overlay. Make all the panels black as they should be. Make the highlighting correct and not just some recoloured piece of crap.

Trying to get another website to come over here and continue your argument and clog the thread up with repetitive argument to pressure me into making the TIEs blue is nothing more than bully tactics (but i notice you haven't had much success). And (not saying you said this by the way) so i'm bloody anally retentive because i am an artist that hates when colouring is wrong and i want things to look correct? So when a CG artist cringes at incorrectly done CG then he is being anal? Same with every other profession where they see that something is clearly wrong and want to fix it. Give me a break. You say that most people prefer the blue TIEs? well where is the evidence of that? Its been pretty even, with more of a swing towards Grey TIEs than anything else.

You say that they should be the correct colour that the model were(even though the photography process bleaches out the light blue colouring anyway).  does that include everything then? If that's what i should do then i guess i have some more colour work to do on a certain ship then:

Now that is a shot taken from the pre-2004 version of the SE. ILM forgot to recolour the Executor to give it the deep blue hue. So what you see there is the true colour of the ship as it was photographed. as you can see it has nothing to do with any colour problems as this was from the TV broadcast version taken from the theatrical print and the blue lights on the Executor are still intact along with the orange lights at the front of the ship.

So, since you posted that thread over at stardestroyer.net to get people to come over here and back you up then maybe i should repay the courtesy and post the link to that thread (which i can reply to because i can't register because it won't accept my ISP's email address).

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128493

If i could redo all the TIE FX with new CG models then i would be able to keep the proper model colour but that is going to be impossible

Lets just give this whole thing a break now Kurgan. I'm not going to reply to it anymore. I hate arguing with anyone and it seems silly to do so over something so minor as this.  At least wait until i've begun FX work on the damn thing :)

rcb said:

the whole hayden thing, i'm sure adywan, when he gets to it of course, could redo the Sebastian Shaw anikan head in when luke takes off the helment and replace it with haydens.

i think this already may have been attempted.

Oh god, no. Hayden will never appear in my OT edits

i can't believe the "green laser" debate is still going. lol.  It was very interesting seeing those couple of shots with green lasers from the early trailer though, but i don't think they ever actually intended to go with the green lasers. Sometimes when trying to get a trailer ready in time they go with unfinished FX (which is clearly evident in early trailers). A lot of the lightsabers haven't even been rotoscoped in the trailers, so it could just have been an error of the FX department, or just test FX that were used.

While the green lasers would make more sense and help distinguish between the rebels laserfire, red just looks more powerful than green.

Do the "Making of Star Wars" & the other documentaries have the Japanese subtitles or are these sets subtitle free? I have the Editdroid set (which is now available in a.b.starwars) but i would love to be able to get hold of this set if possible, if anyone could help me out.

Gaffer Tape said:

I'm not exactly sure how that serves as phonetic (using symbols to represent sounds), but it's still pretty fun, especially for just screwing around at work.

Q might be a problem to get for OT, but there has to be something for N!  Let me think...  Damn.  Well, I'll keep thinking.

Needa & Quarren (squid head race  in jabbas palace)

Ok, well i've had some sleep now

You have actually misquoted me over at stardestroyer.net Kurgan but as i can't register there i have to reply to it here.

Kurgan said:

Edit: Also, he says that the TIEs added in the special editions of ESB were gray, rather than blue. However, without specific pics (which he may provide) I am not sure what he's talking about, other than perhaps the "TIE Shuttle" (which was just a bomber without the bomb chute) that Needa flies to "apologize" to Vader.

This is what i actually said:

ANH:R has grey TIEs so suddenly jumping to having all blue TIEs really doesn't fit with continuity with my edit. The whole bollox explanation that the Death Star TIEs were a different squadron so were white/ grey is just more EU bullshit to explain an error. If that's the case then why did ILM add the CG TIEs for the SE as blue/grey ones? That totally screwed up that theory.

As you can see, i was talking about the CG TIEs added to ANH for the SE. They used a blue/grey CG model which threw the theory of the fact they were white/grey as being that they were the Death Star Squadron.

Now the main reason, apart from that i just don't like the  TIEs such an over saturated blue is this: They have all been recoloured in post production. Being an artist this is something i just cannot stand. An object should ahve many degrees of light and shade and highlighting. When recolouring an object you lose the light tones of highlights and it becomes a block colour. This existed ever since ESB was released in 1980 and nothing to do with the latest 2004 screw up. Even the black panels have become blue, which is down to the colour enhancement. Something like this jumps out to me and i just can't overlook it. It pulls me right out of the movie. You can tell the ones that haven't had any sort of colour filter added and they are grey and have white highlights when next to them is a blue one and the highlights which should be almost colourless is blue. For the AVCHD restoration it was easy to restore the colour to blue because of the techniques used originally. If i were to try and keep the blue to a degree that i would be happy with  i would have to mask every single area for highlights, panels, cockpit etc. Here's a quick diagram to show what i mean:

Now the yellow areas are the mask for the black panels. Each section has to be done separately with a separate mask. The red areas are the highlights. Again each area is a separate mask. The green is the cockpit window to turn it back to grey. Now after i done the masks and applied the correct colouring/ highlighting to them each point then has to be matched, frame by frame, to the motion of the TIE fighter. All this has to be done by hand. Now when you have one TIE this can take days to do one split second shot. That photo has about 18 separate masks. Each point of that mask has to be moved to match the next frame. Thats could be anything in the region of 100+ points that have to be keyframed and moved to match the origin point for every frame. For one TIE alone thats insanity. Now add the other TIEs and every shot in the film and it becomes even more of a  nightmare, and something i am not willing to do.  It would take me so long just restoring these colours could take me the next year alone. I know i am too much of a perfectionist, which can sometimes be my downfall, but that's just the way i am. If they had stuck to the original colouring when doing ESB then i wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with the TIES being blue, but the fake colouring i just cannot stand, and never will. Now the TIE bombers are a different matter. They didn't have anything done to their colouring . Now strange enough they didn't mess with the colouring for ROTJ and the TIEs are a light blue/grey. Highlighting is intact and the panels are black.

Now what i am going to do is this: All the TIE fighters will be grey. TIE bombers will be their original light blue/ grey and the TIE interceptors will be their original colouring also. This will keep the consistency with the colours of the TIEs throughout the saga and also give the newer models of the bombers and interceptors their own colouring. the interceptors are a newer and more advanced TIE fighter so having a different colour , i have no problem with. If ILM had done the same to the bombers and the interceptors as they did with the TIEs in ESB then they would probably be grey also.

Its just soemthing, that to my eyes, that i spot straight away and hate it. Its the same with recolouring old black and white movies. It always looks fake to me and i just can never watch anything recoloured. Some movies, however, use recolouring for style and this can work. But not when you are trying to recolour an object because its just a new techique you can do, whcih is what happened with ESB

astromech said:

Perhaps as with AHN:R, Ady will release a purist version which is colour corrected but with blue tie fighters instead of grey...but let's let him finish the work rather than hold him here debating it! :p

No , there will be no purist edition of ESB:R

I'm going to get some sleep then i'll try to explain my reasoning why the TIES will be grey when my brain is working better.