adywan

Hunter6 said:

Yes, there was an Extended original cut of first film which was about 15 or 20 minutes longer and yes, a little group of theaters showed it, but not long.  It was pulled after two showings on opening today. Lucas has turned this little thing into an urban legend. Some of the Usenet posters are telling the truth. No one could have seen it many times because they all were pulled. It also was missing some effects and the lightsaber effects were odd. It was not the greatest way to see star wars for the first. The only good thing about it is Vader use more force powers and acts more cocky in the original cut. I think one day Lucas will add some of these back in some type of new SE.
    the Marvel comic adaption of Star Wars shows visual details that are only in the original cut. Which make me think the people who work on the Marvel comic adaption of Star Wars saw this cut of the film because the comic visual matches those scenes. How did the artists of the Marvel comic draw things just like how they are in the deleted scenes if they did not see a type of original cut of the film. The screenplay would not show how the actors stood and moved in those scenes.
    This is one Urban Legend which is real. 
    hell, one day in the future Lucas may try to make it seem like the OOT was all in people's heads too and that the SE versions were the original ones.

The Marvel comics didn't see an early cut of the film at all. They were given the script (or draft of the novel)and many, many, if not all, of the publicity & on set stills taken to work with. Comic artists of the 70's were given still material to work with and that's it.  Just look at many of the comic adaptation pics and you'll see that there are so many that look exactly like the publicity stills and not from the movie.They would have worked on the comic many months in advance of its release and well before any final cut of the movie which is why the cut scenes appear. Don't forget that they were working on star wars right up until the last minute. Its just an urban legend that isn't true. How many people have said that they saw luke throw the grappling hook twice, with the first time missing its target? Hasn't this already been debunked because it was never even filmed? So how the hell could they have seen it? It was the same with ESB when people swore that they saw the Wampa drag Luke off and attack the rebel base. Yet again they scrapped that idea during filming so how the hell would it end up finished in a theatre showing?

People remember many things because they saw it in the comic books, heard or read someone else mention it or read it in the novels.

There was only one cut of ANH but with different soundtracks. thats the only difference in that movie. Remember that Star Wars wasn't really favoured by the movie studio and Lucas would not have had the money (and Fox certainly wouldn't ahve given him and more) to be able to do any more than one finished print of the movie for replication and distribution. And the "Lost Cut" exists only in Black & white form in Lucas' vaults. A colour print was supposedly never done and had the world war 2 footage instead of FX. Check the deleted scenes on behind the magic. Its all on set audio. No dubbing work had been done. If these scenes had been originally in this pulled version they would have had the finished audio.

ESB was a different thing all together. The 70mm version and the 35mm were different, with the 70mm version being slightly shorter. The 35mm was the final cut, with a few extra shots and some differing fx, audio and wipes. This i saw, along with many other people and has been documented. Strangely enough, if you think about it, the 70mm version is actually the original, with the 35mm which we all know and love is actually a special edition. lol

Here is an article i found on the net:

  A controversy “Star Wars” has generated over the years is whether or not any scenes were added to or deleted from the film after the initial batch of prints were released to theatres.  Many fans insist changes were made, all of which Lucasfilm representatives have denied in print and at many science-fiction and comic book conventions.  Fan recollections vary wildly and range from additional scenes featuring Luke Skywalker and friend Biggs Darklighter, to an encounter with Jabba the Hutt, to a brief bit with Chewbacca not scaring off the Death Star's Mouse Robot, to a single shot of Luke throwing his grappling hook and missing before throwing a second time successfully so he and Princess Leia could swing across the Death Star chasm.

While there is no doubt that the Jabba the Hutt scene and three scenes set on Tatooine early in the movie featuring Luke (two of which included Biggs) were deleted before the release, “The Unauthorized Star Wars Compendium” includes a claim that the Luke-Biggs reunion scene in the Rebel Hanger appeared in the original 1977 prints, only to be deleted for the 1979 re-release, then re-instated for the 1997 Special Edition.  (The author of “The Unauthorized Star Wars Compendium” declined to be interviewed for this article.)

Deleted Scene – Luke Reunited With Biggs

Memory can be a strange thing, and while it has been difficult to confirm changes made to the film, an explanation for fans’ recollections of seeing things can be traced to the movie's assortment of tie-in publications and merchandise.  For example, the Ballantine novel, the Marvel comic book adaptation, the Topps bubblegum card series, the documentary “The Making Of Star Wars,” and the books “The Star Wars Storybook” and “The Art Of Star Wars” all featured text, photos, footage, or cartoon renditions of scenes scripted and/or shot. Combined with the lack of availability of a (legal) version of “Star Wars” on home video formats until five years following the original theatrical release, one can see how anyone with a vivid imagination can convince themselves that they saw footage that may have never appeared in a theatrical presentation of the movie.

Rhikter said:

Everyone need to go to www.woot.com right now!!!!

From www.woot.com 11/21/2008

Star Wars Vault: 30 Years of Treasures From the Lucasfilm Archives

$24.99 + $5 shipping

condition: New

product: 1 Star Wars Vault 30 Years of Treasures w/ Removable Memorabilia & 2 audio CDs

Because We Couldn’t Get Greedo

Heydey ho, yousan! Mesa here to tell yousan bout dis Star Wars Vault box set! Deysa spake itsa “30 Years of Treasures From de Lucasfilm Archives”, and deysa point is well seen! Posters, iron-ons, copies of handwritten script pages, and a maxibig book wit behind-de-scenes photos from all de movies, some dem never before published! Itsa also 2 CDs wit vintage radio ads, original cast interviews, excerpts from de Star Wars radio drama, and other tracks – including Princess Leia song from de bombad Christmas special! Mesa had like dis Christmas special so mooey mooey, but itsa so expensive on eBay!

(My enjoy dis memorabilia whilesa me wear mesa Let The Cookie Win t-shirt, but my not sure whysa.)

 

Yeah, so dis Star Wars Vaultsa maxihot, but my have one question: wheresa mesa? Whysa me not on de cover? Whena mesa boyo George had hire mesa to be in hesan movie, hesa had say my be maxibig star dat all de people like! Some stinkowiff fanso try to crunch mesa: dem say mesa annoying, mesa borderline racist caricature, mesa cheap ploy fe younger audiences, mesa mek dem movies jump de shark. How wude! But mesa boyo say dem fanboyso cawazy. My know: hesa ganna make new Vault all mesa own! My can’t wait! Ooey booey! Fe now, yousan mus’ be satisfied wit dis Star Wars Vault, okeeday? Byesy-bo!

Warranty: 90 Day Woot Limited Warranty

Features:

• The official illustrated book celebrating the 30th anniversary of George Lucas' first Star Wars movie
• "The Star Wars Vault" is the insider's look at the development and making of all six movies, and the huge cultural impact they've had.
• In addition to hundreds of photos and pieces of artwork, the book includes fifty interactive, rare, and some never-before-seen pieces of memorabilia.
• "The Star Wars Vault" is the ultimate, one-of-a-kind insider's look into the sensation that launched a phenomenon that includes six feature films; two spin-off films; three television series with more to come; and an extensive collection of licensed books, comics, video games, action figures, trading cards, and many other products worldwide.
• Includes fifty interactive, rare and some never-before-published memorabilia, including reproductions of Lucas’s own handwritten script pages, flip-though catalogs, swag, posters, T-shirt transfers, stickers, blueprints, production notes, animation cels, and much more
• Includes 2 CDs containing over 2 hours of vintage radio ads, original cast interviews, excerpts from the NPR Star Wars radio drama, Carrie Fisher’s Holiday Special performance of Princess Leia’s song, George Lucas’s commentary, and other tracks that tell the story of everyone’s favorite galactic saga as never before
• Unique and unprecedented history and tribute to the Star Wars films
• Comes in a protective hardcover box
• Hardcover: 128 pages
• Publisher: HarperEntertainment (October 30, 2007)
• Product Dimensions: 13.4 x 11.6 x 1.8 inches
• Shipping Weight: 5.8 pounds

In the box:

• Star Wars Vault 30 Years of Treasures From the Lucasfilm Archives
• Fifty interactive, rare and some never-before-published memorabilia
• 2 audio CDs
• Protective hardcover box

I got that for Xmas last year. Not too bad really

I know. Just saw this myself. A very worrying time if the MPAA has started going after fan edits.

Some good news. ESB AVCHD should be finished in the next couple of weeks, maybe sooner :)

Rockvoice said:

adywan said:

No, the framerate should have no impact on playability with the second layer. Here's what i do: after creating the video with Megui, i use TSMuxer to create the blu-ray folders and then IMGburn to burnboth the the folders, using udf 2.50

 

Thanks, but that is EXACLTY the way I do it. I use Nero 9 instead of IMGburn for buring the files on an udf 2.50 DVD. This is strange... perhaps a problem with my DVD-burning drive.

In case of the framerate: I noticed that even most of the Blurays are not 24.00 but 23.97 fps - so logically it would not make sense for 23,97 fps-AVCHDs to cause any problems.

 

Ah, thats exactly where your problem is. Neros udf 2.50 is messed up and does cause a lot of problems with DL. Burn with IMGburn and you'll have no problems

Well someone just sent me a clip from a 1up fm podcast interview with Kyle Newman, director of the soon to be released Fanboys. They are talking about TPM then switch to fan edits and he mentions mine (although he calls it the ultimate edition. lol). It's pretty weird hearing someone like Kyle talk about me edit especially when i'm so excited about going to see Fanboys next year.

kyle_Newman_interview_clip.mp3

negative1 said:

i'm not telling you anything..

i'm speculating that the renewed interest in the Star Wars trilogy is DUE to the fact

the SE versions came out with great success in revitalizing the interest that had almost

completely died out before that.... are you saying all star wars fans kept up their

interest until 1997?????????????????????????????????? if so, why, when there was

nothing new to look forward to..

how many people would have gone to see a 'restored' version of the movie in the theater,

it would have been an even more limited run, and maybe just an arthouse showing, who

knows? it was already out on VHS/CED/LASERDISC, so its not like it wasn't available..

 

and how many people would have bought it just on DVD, if they hadn't seen it in the theaters?

we won't know will we... but apparently there was a HUGE demand after it was shown (SE

versions) in the theaters.... good marketing of course...   yeah, sure there would have been the tiny amount of hardcore fans

here, and maybe from the star wars sites... but that's about it.....

what do you think, if miraculously Lucas decides to allow the GOUT, or OOT to be

shown in the theaters again... how many records at the box office would they break?

 

absolutely none.......................

 

now show the same movies again in 3-D and at least you can renew the interest

again, and maybe NOT set a box office record, but introduce yet ANOTHER GENERATION

of fans to the movies..

 

it's all about marketing, and not about art.....sad to say..

 

later

-1

 

Ok, well here's something for you. In 1995 my local cinema did a one week classic film season. It was originally supposed to run from Monday until the Friday. I can' t remember all the films that were to be shown but i can remember that ANH was to be shown on the Friday. Each film was to have only 1 showing at 7pm. Now Star Wars received so much interest they decided to give it 2 showings. Tickets sold out in the first couple of days. So they had to put more showings on. again they sold out. in the end they had 5 showings on Friday and added 3 more on the Saturday. all completely sold out. the only film in that week that had packed houses ( and i know because i was dating the assistant manageress at the time). This wasn't a small arthouse cinema either. Now i was able to take my 3 kids to see star wars on the big screen. Even though they had seen it countless times on VHS they still loved seeing it in the cinema.

Now my generation, who had seen Star Wars in 1977 in the cinemas, now had kids and they were taking them to see it. It was evident at the showing i went to see with just how many kids were there. So your argument that only hardcore fans would have gone to see the OT compared to the SE hold no ground based on that. Sure there were the minority that went to see it just to see the changes, but they were probably the same hardcore Star Wars fans that would have gone to see it on the big screen regardless of the changes. Do you really think that the few added changed that were done for the SE is what made Star Wars popular again? Are you sure you lived on this planet in 1997? The buzz wasn't that they were different versions of the films but the fact that Star Wars was getting a wide release showing at the cinema again.

So you think that adding the new shots made it the world wide hit that it became again? Well rubbish. Close encounters, for example, was re-released as a special edition. Its first run in 1978 was successful, its SE release wasn't.  Hell, when i went to see that on its opening day the cinema was almost empty.

My generation were taking their kids, who in turn were going with their friends boosting ticket sales.

It was because it was Star Wars, not because it was a special edition.

Rockvoice said:

Hey there!

Amazing work! I've done a lot of AVCHD rendering with output for DVD-9 but this one works best.

 

I rendered TESB and ROTJ for AVCHD, and after adding borders (to fit 1920x1080) I used MeGui and some other stuff to have it on a Dual Layer DVD.

Of course my version does not have colour correction or whatsoever - I started it BEFORE I found this thread here...

 

Here's what I find interesting:

I used the same Dual Layer DVD-R's and the same burnig tool for your ANH and my TESB, but as soon as the player reads from the second layer your ANH works fine and my TESB has major problems with FF and FR and even with switching chapters.

I have not the least idea why. I thought this would be a reason of the brand of DVD-Rs you use or the player you use, but in this case...

The only thing I noticed is that your ANH is exactly 24.00 fps and my TESB is 23.97 fps - no idea if that causes the problems on second layer...

 

No, the framerate should have no impact on playability with the second layer. Here's what i do: after creating the video with Megui, i use TSMuxer to create the blu-ray folders and then IMGburn to burnboth the the folders, using udf 2.50

budwhite said:

So is it Ian's voice in the new emperor scene? The old emperor never bothered me but the old voice is pretty lame

No. It's the original Clive Reville voice becuase these versions are the pre-2004 theatrical SE versions

Oldfan said:

I will miss the spinning starfield, but Adywan has said that he is planning a different fx shot in its place, so I'm sure it will work out fine.

Adywan, I had a question for you. I'm pretty sure you mentioned a while back that you won't be altering the music in Empire. I would agree with you there that the music was a masterpiece, and does not require any work. However, I have just finished watching the Editdroid disc 4 you posted, and I was very intrigued with the alternate audio cues that were included as extras. For those that have not seen this disc, there is almost an hour worth of scenes from the original trilogy featuring the original music cues that were composed for the scenes. As it said on the disc, for various reasons, like pacing, editing decisions, or simply mood, several music cues were changed, deleted, or trimmed in various scenes. There were 17 scenes featured from Empire, and the disc showed the restored scenes, as best as possible, with the original music, along with the final theatrical version for comparison. It was quite interesting to hear the music that we are all familiar with actually in the scenes they were recorded for. I'd imagine that you wouldn't want to restore all of that music, as it was changed for a reason. But I wondered if you would be interested in taking a look at those scenes, just in case something jumped out at you. I figured that since this was music composed for the film, it would entirely fit in, and I especially liked "Imperial Fleet", the original Imperial March intro when you first see Darth Vader (the version that was actually used was composed as a "concert rendition", only to be heard on the official soundtrack album). I also loved a few of the scenes that originally erupted in various versions of the Imperial March during transitions to other scenes, like "Fleet Transition" and "Needa/Piggyback". We have all heard these bits for ages on the soundtracks, but to hear it in the film is amazing.

I'm not sure if it is possible to restore some of these without altering the scenes, but there are a few cues that I'm pretty sure you could fit right back in, if you wanted to. Just a thought that ocurred to me while watching the scenes.

 

Funnily enough, i was watching disc 4 the other day and i was thinking about doing something with the unused cues. What i have decided is that, for the DVD-9 version of ESB:R i will be doing an extra alternate audio track that will have all the cues integrated back into the movie

doubleofive said:

adywan said:

On another note, is anyone in the UK going to Memorabilia in Birmingham this weekend? I'm taking my daughter and her sister and i was thinking of taking a couple of signed copies of ANH:R with me to give away

That would be awesome.  How would anyone who's not your friend on Facebook know who to look for?

I was going to put up a few clues so it would be easy to recognise me.  There are a few of the Star Wars cast there. So far there is KENNY BAKER, JEREMY BULLOCH, WARWICK DAVIS, MICHAEL CULVER (captain Needa), KEN COLLEY (Piett) & Julian Glover (Veers).

ImperialFighter said:

By the way Adywan, I don't think this has been brought up yet, but I really hope you will incorporate one or two of your subtle 'sun glare reflections' into this edit, as the one you did in the 'escape pod approaching Tattooine' shot was terrific, and really added to the look of that scene.  Perhaps in the 'snowspeeder searching for Han and Luke on Hoth' scene, as it's bright and sunny then, or during the sunset scenes as the MF nears Bespin....

They might be making an appearance or two, yes :)

Monroville said:

adywan said:

The spinning starfield is going to go, i'm afraid. It happens in ANH & ESB only. It was gone in ANH:R and i will be doing the same for the one time it appears for ESB:R

that is a bummer, man! (to quote The Dude)

Would you consider having the stars do the streaky thing at least?  I just find the non-spinning, non-anything with the stars do not give the appropriate indication that said MF is moving really, really fast.

yes, the stars will still do the "streaky thing".

Darth Stewie, I was just looking at that clip again and it was mentioned that the first wipe is a bit jarring. Well i think i may have an idea. At the moment you have the iris coming outwards. Well, if you reverse that wipe and have it going inwards then it will almost follow the path of the probe and blend in better with the next shot. Just an idea

The spinning starfield is going to go, i'm afraid. It happens in ANH & ESB only. It was gone in ANH:R and i will be doing the same for the one time it appears for ESB:R

Monroville, the footage used in that youtube clip by Darth Stewie (good to see you back by the way stewie)  is all from ESB:R , so all my FX. I'm planing a different FX shot for when the falcon escapes into hyperspace at the end, so the spinning starfield won't work.

Now i also won't be cutting any of 3PO's lines in ESB:R. In fact i'm hoping to reinstate the original full line "I'm not ready to die..on the back of a demented Wookie" that was omitted from the 35mm & home video releases. It cuts off horribly the way it is now and sounds unnatural.

Now the thread seems to be getting a bit too argumentative , with everything thats been going on lately. I think we all need to calm down and take a step back. Things are getting really side tracked. Lets all go to our happy place. lol

On another note, is anyone in the UK going to Memorabilia in Birmingham this weekend? I'm taking my daughter and her sister and i was thinking of taking a couple of signed copies of ANH:R with me to give away

All 4 are now available in alt.binaries.starwars

negative1 said:

Ziz said:

Player prices are starting to come down. Saw a Sylvania unit at BJ's today for $199.

 

still not worth it...

no point in supporting an overpriced format...

later

-1

I expected you to say something like that with you being being a HD-DVD supporter. I'd rather support , what you call, an over-priced format than a dead one. lol

Actually blu-ray isn't overpriced at all. Players and discs are coming down in price all the time. Its only been out for a couple of years and prices are about in line with what DVD was when that format came out. I can remember when DVD's were almost £30 when they first came out. My first DVD player was £250 and that was a few years after the format came out. Blu-Ray players can be found for under £200 now. Up until a couple of years ago double disc edition DVD's were still priced at around £19 and Blu-rays are already around that price now and even cheeper, so Blu-Ray is actually better value now compared to when DVD's first came out.

Kurgan, this is going beyond silly now. The examples you give with the TIE colouring mean absolutely nothing.  You have boosted the saturation (not contrast) of a model that originally had the correct colour and not one that was recoloured in post production. The panels remain black which is the way they were supposed to be. But like i have said before the colouring was added in post production and tinted the panels blue (which is more like the right hand picture but done a different way and not as extreme). You keep pushing that "you are right and i'm going to totally ruin the edit by making the TIEs grey" thing until it becomes troll like. And then you say that someone can recolour the TIES in a new edit after mine is finished. But that wouldn't be a new edit at all. It would just be recolouring TIEs, which is something i wouldn't be too happy with. If you want the TIEs blue then just watch the SE colour corrected version i will be releasing soon. You are becoming obsessed with this whole colour thing. Just let it go man before it eats you up. lol

I haven't even started the FX stage of things yet and things could change. I just don't know yet until i start that phase. but i'm just stating in advance that i prefer the grey look to the TIEs.

You mention in the thread you started that it wouldn't be that hard to recolour the TIEs correctly. I tried to explain just how hard and time consuming it would be but you just ignore that and continue. If its so bloody easy then why don't you do a complete scene with correctly coloured TIEs, without using new CGI models or using a blanket colour overlay. Make all the panels black as they should be. Make the highlighting correct and not just some recoloured piece of crap.

Trying to get another website to come over here and continue your argument and clog the thread up with repetitive argument to pressure me into making the TIEs blue is nothing more than bully tactics (but i notice you haven't had much success). And (not saying you said this by the way) so i'm bloody anally retentive because i am an artist that hates when colouring is wrong and i want things to look correct? So when a CG artist cringes at incorrectly done CG then he is being anal? Same with every other profession where they see that something is clearly wrong and want to fix it. Give me a break. You say that most people prefer the blue TIEs? well where is the evidence of that? Its been pretty even, with more of a swing towards Grey TIEs than anything else.

You say that they should be the correct colour that the model were(even though the photography process bleaches out the light blue colouring anyway).  does that include everything then? If that's what i should do then i guess i have some more colour work to do on a certain ship then:

Now that is a shot taken from the pre-2004 version of the SE. ILM forgot to recolour the Executor to give it the deep blue hue. So what you see there is the true colour of the ship as it was photographed. as you can see it has nothing to do with any colour problems as this was from the TV broadcast version taken from the theatrical print and the blue lights on the Executor are still intact along with the orange lights at the front of the ship.

So, since you posted that thread over at stardestroyer.net to get people to come over here and back you up then maybe i should repay the courtesy and post the link to that thread (which i can reply to because i can't register because it won't accept my ISP's email address).

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128493

If i could redo all the TIE FX with new CG models then i would be able to keep the proper model colour but that is going to be impossible

Lets just give this whole thing a break now Kurgan. I'm not going to reply to it anymore. I hate arguing with anyone and it seems silly to do so over something so minor as this.  At least wait until i've begun FX work on the damn thing :)

rcb said:

the whole hayden thing, i'm sure adywan, when he gets to it of course, could redo the Sebastian Shaw anikan head in when luke takes off the helment and replace it with haydens.

i think this already may have been attempted.

Oh god, no. Hayden will never appear in my OT edits

i can't believe the "green laser" debate is still going. lol.  It was very interesting seeing those couple of shots with green lasers from the early trailer though, but i don't think they ever actually intended to go with the green lasers. Sometimes when trying to get a trailer ready in time they go with unfinished FX (which is clearly evident in early trailers). A lot of the lightsabers haven't even been rotoscoped in the trailers, so it could just have been an error of the FX department, or just test FX that were used.

While the green lasers would make more sense and help distinguish between the rebels laserfire, red just looks more powerful than green.

Do the "Making of Star Wars" & the other documentaries have the Japanese subtitles or are these sets subtitle free? I have the Editdroid set (which is now available in a.b.starwars) but i would love to be able to get hold of this set if possible, if anyone could help me out.

Gaffer Tape said:

I'm not exactly sure how that serves as phonetic (using symbols to represent sounds), but it's still pretty fun, especially for just screwing around at work.

Q might be a problem to get for OT, but there has to be something for N!  Let me think...  Damn.  Well, I'll keep thinking.

Needa & Quarren (squid head race  in jabbas palace)

Ok, well i've had some sleep now

You have actually misquoted me over at stardestroyer.net Kurgan but as i can't register there i have to reply to it here.

Kurgan said:

Edit: Also, he says that the TIEs added in the special editions of ESB were gray, rather than blue. However, without specific pics (which he may provide) I am not sure what he's talking about, other than perhaps the "TIE Shuttle" (which was just a bomber without the bomb chute) that Needa flies to "apologize" to Vader.

This is what i actually said:

ANH:R has grey TIEs so suddenly jumping to having all blue TIEs really doesn't fit with continuity with my edit. The whole bollox explanation that the Death Star TIEs were a different squadron so were white/ grey is just more EU bullshit to explain an error. If that's the case then why did ILM add the CG TIEs for the SE as blue/grey ones? That totally screwed up that theory.

As you can see, i was talking about the CG TIEs added to ANH for the SE. They used a blue/grey CG model which threw the theory of the fact they were white/grey as being that they were the Death Star Squadron.

Now the main reason, apart from that i just don't like the  TIEs such an over saturated blue is this: They have all been recoloured in post production. Being an artist this is something i just cannot stand. An object should ahve many degrees of light and shade and highlighting. When recolouring an object you lose the light tones of highlights and it becomes a block colour. This existed ever since ESB was released in 1980 and nothing to do with the latest 2004 screw up. Even the black panels have become blue, which is down to the colour enhancement. Something like this jumps out to me and i just can't overlook it. It pulls me right out of the movie. You can tell the ones that haven't had any sort of colour filter added and they are grey and have white highlights when next to them is a blue one and the highlights which should be almost colourless is blue. For the AVCHD restoration it was easy to restore the colour to blue because of the techniques used originally. If i were to try and keep the blue to a degree that i would be happy with  i would have to mask every single area for highlights, panels, cockpit etc. Here's a quick diagram to show what i mean:

Now the yellow areas are the mask for the black panels. Each section has to be done separately with a separate mask. The red areas are the highlights. Again each area is a separate mask. The green is the cockpit window to turn it back to grey. Now after i done the masks and applied the correct colouring/ highlighting to them each point then has to be matched, frame by frame, to the motion of the TIE fighter. All this has to be done by hand. Now when you have one TIE this can take days to do one split second shot. That photo has about 18 separate masks. Each point of that mask has to be moved to match the next frame. Thats could be anything in the region of 100+ points that have to be keyframed and moved to match the origin point for every frame. For one TIE alone thats insanity. Now add the other TIEs and every shot in the film and it becomes even more of a  nightmare, and something i am not willing to do.  It would take me so long just restoring these colours could take me the next year alone. I know i am too much of a perfectionist, which can sometimes be my downfall, but that's just the way i am. If they had stuck to the original colouring when doing ESB then i wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with the TIES being blue, but the fake colouring i just cannot stand, and never will. Now the TIE bombers are a different matter. They didn't have anything done to their colouring . Now strange enough they didn't mess with the colouring for ROTJ and the TIEs are a light blue/grey. Highlighting is intact and the panels are black.

Now what i am going to do is this: All the TIE fighters will be grey. TIE bombers will be their original light blue/ grey and the TIE interceptors will be their original colouring also. This will keep the consistency with the colours of the TIEs throughout the saga and also give the newer models of the bombers and interceptors their own colouring. the interceptors are a newer and more advanced TIE fighter so having a different colour , i have no problem with. If ILM had done the same to the bombers and the interceptors as they did with the TIEs in ESB then they would probably be grey also.

Its just soemthing, that to my eyes, that i spot straight away and hate it. Its the same with recolouring old black and white movies. It always looks fake to me and i just can never watch anything recoloured. Some movies, however, use recolouring for style and this can work. But not when you are trying to recolour an object because its just a new techique you can do, whcih is what happened with ESB

astromech said:

Perhaps as with AHN:R, Ady will release a purist version which is colour corrected but with blue tie fighters instead of grey...but let's let him finish the work rather than hold him here debating it! :p

No , there will be no purist edition of ESB:R

I'm going to get some sleep then i'll try to explain my reasoning why the TIES will be grey when my brain is working better.

Kurgan said:

 

adywan said:

      

Kurgan said:

        I thought you said that the removal of color was due to the aging of the film and the crappy restoration jobs of the past...

    Well i have never said that anywhere. I'd love to know where you think i am supposed to ahve said that.

    I cannot locate the original posts, but I KNOW you've said before that the color information has been lost in some scenes (when you were talking about ANH revisited). People pointed out that some scenes look like black & white with color "pasted on." There are some shots where this is glaringly obvious, like the one where the TIE pilots follow Vader down that hallway to meet the Rebels.


Are you saying you just did this for stylistic reasons, not because of the loss of color information?

I thought you were talking about prior to the 2004 restoration because you said "of the past.." and it was after i posted the pics of the TIEs from the GOUT. Its almost 9am here now and i've been up for the past 24 hours working on this damn edit so my brain is pretty fried.

Kurgan said:

 

adywan said:

      

Kurgan said:

        I thought you said that the removal of color was due to the aging of the film and the crappy restoration jobs of the past...

    Well i have never said that anywhere. I'd love to know where you think i am supposed to ahve said that.

    I cannot locate the original posts, but I KNOW you've said before that the color information has been lost in some scenes (when you were talking about ANH revisited). People pointed out that some scenes look like black & white with color "pasted on." There are some shots where this is glaringly obvious, like the one where the TIE pilots follow Vader down that hallway to meet the Rebels.


Are you saying you just did this for stylistic reasons, not because of the loss of color information?

I thought you were talking about prior to the 2004 restoration because you said "of the past.." and it was after i posted the pics of the TIEs from the GOUT. Its almost 9am here now and i've been up for the past 24 hours working on this damn edit so my brain is pretty fried.

Kurgan said:

         Oh, okay, you took the 2004 edition and modified it to create a pseudo-1997 SE...  did you put Luke's "scream" back in there? ;)

Sounds like it's as much a fan edit as the "Classic Editions,"...

 

Fan edits and restorations are 2 separate things. A fan edit changes the movie where as a restoration returns it to its original state or , as in the laserdisc transfers, archives a movie that is only available on an obsolete format and transfers it to a modern day format in the best possible quality. The revisited saga is a fan edit, my AVCHD is a restoration. They even include their theatrical audio from the laserdiscs, so yes, Lukes scream is restored

I really need to end this now. I've spent so much time on this subject i'm exhausted now and lost time i should have been spending on the edit. :)

Kurgan said:

I didn't remove the pic, just resized it (hit refresh). It's one of several shots you can easily find with google image search from that show. You said before you wanted to tone down the blue, but still leave them blue, before. Then you said you wanted it gray after a few people seemed up for that idea... then when I mentioned it last time, you said you were making them blue and I'd just misunderstood. Now we're back to gray again?

Well for one i hadn't even started the colour correction on any of the FX scenes when i originally said that the TIEs would be blue. I was still planning what i was going to do. it wasn't until i saw what they look like blue that i made my final decision

Kurgan said:

I thought you said that the removal of color was due to the aging of the film and the crappy restoration jobs of the past...

Well i have never said that anywhere. I'd love to know where you think i am supposed to have said that.

Kurgan said:

I think you had the right idea with making all the TIEs blue. Why are you making them all gray in one version and all blue in another? Your HD edition is also a fan edit... I just don't understand the back & forth. Blue just looks better. Heck, even if you just left the TIEs as is (how they looked in 1980) that'd be cool. There's been nothing wrong with them all this time. To suddenly make them all gray just makes it more boring, visually. Gray TIEs next to gray asteroids, gray ISDs on a black background with white stars, chasing other gray objects. Yawn.

The HD version is a restoration of the theatrical SE and not a fan edit at all. I never liked the blue TIEs since ESB's release. The Revisited edits were started so i can get versions of the saga that i have always wanted to see ( not counting the the OUT of course), so removing blue TIEs fits into that perfectly. I toyed with the idea of keeping blue TIEs only due to nostalgia but after seeing the completed colour correction for those sequences i just didn't like them. If you find having grey TIEs boring then i'm not forcing you to watch it.Its not like i'm saying "This is the only version of the Star Wars saga that exists". I'm not George you know. :) This is just a fan edit. It's nothing special and not an official release. I'm getting more and more sympathetic towards George Lucas everyday. lol. Somedays i wish i'd never even done ANH:R

Kurgan said:

But you went and recolored the TIEs for the HD ESB, and now you're going to re-color (or desaturate) them again? And do the same for ROTJ? Look, I know you don't want to go back to ANH:R, but it sounds like you're saying you're locked into "consistency." But that's saying you're doing this to cover a mistake you made (in not making the TIEs in ANH blue to match the rest of the saga).

 

I can understand you hating blue because of the tints that Lowry Digital/Lucasfilm put in in 2004, but don't hate on the original TIE fighters for something those guys screwed up 24 years later!

yes i recoloured the TIEs for the restoration only. I have said this already. And i did not make a mistake by not colouring the TIEs blue in ANH at all. And i'm certainly not trying to cover anything by having the TIEs grey for consistency. It also has nothing to do with the 2004 restoration either. Check the pics i posted from the non restored version. Total screw up there. And another thing Lucasfilm screwed the colouring as they sent out a colour corrected version to Lowry, which was unthinkable as the colour correction should have been done after the restoration. They added the blue tint, not Lowry, which screwed the colouring up.

I guess we can add another to the lsit now:

The great probot/ meteor debate
The great green laser debate
The great TIE fighter blue / grey debate. lol

:)

Kurgan said:

Hey, I'm sure you can deal with a little constructive criticism. ;)

 

The Empire has millions of TIE Fighters... why do they have to all be the same color? The interceptors too?

If anything, you should be changing the ones in ANH to blue, for consistency's sake!

The less of the movie that looks like black & white, the better...

yeh but theres constructive critisism and then theres stuff like this:

Though honestly if he's the type who'd seriously decide it'd be a good idea to make TIE fighters in ESB white (the TIEs in SW are white only to resolve technical issues with blue screen photography: the fighters were originally supposed to be blue) then maybe he's not entirely the best sort of person to be helming a project like this. You'd think he would have done the research to prove him wrong.

I have done my research and as your pic shows (which you have now removed)the TIEs are not the colour we see in ESB or ROTJ. I won't bow down to any form of pressure, in fact im a stubborn bugger and would probably do the complete opposite that was i was being told to do ( and that doesn't mean that everyone should start telling me the TIEs have to be grey just so i'll keep them blue. lol). If i was the sort of person that did bow to pressure then i may as well just hand the edit to someone else and i just do the work. That will never happen. :)

ANH is finished and i will never go back to that, so recolouring the TIEs will never happen

I love the muted tones used in ANH. more and more colour began to be used as the movies went on and that became a huge problem with the PT. They are just too colourful and lose the feel of the OT completely. Not everything has to be colourful

here's some shots taken from the GOUT. Just look how many times the colouring changes in this short sequence from shot to shot. They're all over the place. The last 2 of the asteroid chase are the same TIE. its starts grey until the next shot when it turns dark blue (and it has nothing to do with the sparking because the previous shot it is still light blue/ grey right up until the last frame). then we see them bombing the surface. the bombers are light blue and the TIEs are grey, and look much better IMO

Kurgan said:

 

So the TIEs are now definitely going to be back to grey. The Bombers will have the original colouring because they are different ships. TIEs were grey in ANH, so i want to keep the consistency there

 

Argh, why do the space battles need to look like black & white? Anyone can just dial down their color contrast, right?

The TIEs were originally intended to be blue, and this gave ESB & ROTJ a unique look.

 

Glad you're keeping the Executor color, but I say, bad idea on the monochrome TIEs in ESB.... :(

The colour correction i am doing at the moment has all blue TIEs. This video will be available on my AVCHD release in 1080p HD glory. But for revisited the TIEs will be grey. You have to remember this isn't a restoration its just a fan edit. I hate the blue TIEs in ROTJ & ESB. no amount of pressuring will make me change my mind on this (and yes i have just been pointed to  the topic you started over at stardestroyer.net, Kurgan, that links to this thread to get people there to try and change my mind.). I have always preferred the TIEs to be grey. ANH:R has grey TIEs so suddenly jumping to having all blue TIEs really doesn't fit with continuity with my edit. The whole bollox explanation that the Death Star TIEs were a different squadron so were white/ grey is just more EU bullshit to explain an error. If that's the case then why did ILM add the CG TIEs for the SE as blue/grey ones? That totally screwed up that theory.

And as you can see from the pic you posted Kurgan the TIEs in ESB & ROTJ aren't even that colour. The TIES were artificially coloured for many shots. Its really obvious when comparing the model to the screen version. That colouring would have been almost grey when filmed. Like i said before they forgot in a lot of shots to recolour them and they are grey. This was the start of ILM finding out they could do something new and then totally overdoing it. They can recolour the TIES so they oversaturate them, but forget some shots; they find out that they can eliminate the black matte lines for the Hoth Battle by making the matte slightly transparent, but then use the same technique during the space scenes and the falcon & TIEs become transparent.

Darth Chaltab said:

I get that hacks would be against the rules, but why would legitimate serial numbers be?

And thanks, I may try that power-pack thing.

The problem with someone sending you a serial is that it might not work with your version. it all depends on what build your office version is. Each build version has a different batch of serial numbers that can be used. I came across this problem when i purchased a second hand computer and it came with a legit copy of Office but without the booklet and serial number. I tried to input one i wrote down from a box in my local WHSmith but it came up as an invalid serial.

You could try putting the hard drive in the other PC as Ziz suggested. I wouldn't use the PC for too long though because with all the diifferent drivers between computers could cause crashes, but if you can get office started then you should be able to find the serial so you can install it on the other PC.

One thing i did forget to mention: Recently i have been flooded with both PM's and emails regarding suggestions and questions about my edits. Well i have to say that if you do have questions or suggestions that you please ask in the appropriate thread. Its just become too many now. So from today i will no longer be replying to any PM's or emails that is about anything that belongs in the Revisited (or its offspring threads)or AVCHD threads. I'm sorry but, not only is it causing me to lose track of things, but there are just too many now, with most covering things that have already been discussed in here and they are just filling up my PM's & email way too fast.