act on instinct

If the writer’s strike had an effect on this I wouldn’t be too surprised, though I can just as well believe the finale would always be this way, they already experimented with episodes in select theaters and this sounds like a suped up special.

This studio is so trapped by short-sightedness, it’s shockingly predictable, maybe this is their best bet back into movies, but something still feels cynical here, like they decided on it with a calculator more than a script. Do the masses still care about Grogu at this point? I’ve only heard about waning interest, how many times can the baby button be pushed? It’s not like baby groot kept going forever. Maybe I’m underestimating Mando but as safe as they’re playing this I think they might be in for some hurt again. Either way as someone not very interested in the adventures of the mandalorian even if it’s entertaining it still feels like the same holding pattern until the next one, I’d prefer to move on at this point. No more cliffhangers and empty promises, it’s tiring.

SparkySywer said:

What parallels do you see with the Wizard of Oz?

Luke is our innocent farmboy protagonist with dreams of leaving home like Dorothy, we could even compare the binary sunset with somewhere over the rainbow.

Obi-Wan is Glinda the good witch, who guides the hero to their quest, and Vader is the wicked witch who is after the stolen plans, making R2D2 a combination of Toto and the ruby slippers (the mean woman who becomes the Witch in the pre Oz beginning also really wanted toto too).

3P0 is another mix, he’s sort of a combination of all three companions, with the metal of the tin man, the demeanor of the cowardly lion, and the structural integrity of the scarecrow who’s always falling apart in some way.

Chewie is also like the lion… plus his own personality quirks, if you put Han and Chewie together you could draw a comparison with the Lion who acts cocky before backing out, before finding their courage.

Alderaan is the emerald city they never make it to, Vader blows it up as a threat instead of flying over the city to terrorize and demand the surrender of the plans, later our protags are pursued by flying monkeys in the form of tie-fighters.

Closer towards the end of Oz and the middle of ANH, the gang has to infiltrate the castle to rescue Dorothy (who is now Leia I know I said Dorothy was Luke but for this Leia is also Dorothy), how do they do it? They steal stormtrooper outfits to sneak inside.

Not everything is going to be 1:1, they’re both their own thing, but the fantasy sense of pure good and evil, good witches and dark wizards, and the way the group comes together along the road of the journey is all very reminiscent of Oz.

Any other connections I’ve missed? I’m sure there’s lots of little things especially if you stretch, like comparing the talking trees to mean cantina patrons or tusken raiders or something. I didn’t want to compare the jawas to the munchkins for just being short, but they are both at the near beginning of both movies and sort of assist in starting the adventure as well.

EDIT: forgot to mention an obvious one! The great and powerful emperor/Oz (was really only thinking about ANH at the time)

After watching LOTR again recently I realized I had a spicy one, Two Towers and Return of the King are too redundant compared to Fellowship and would be better off as one movie, making the trilogy only 2 movies like the original pitch.

Happy to see this posted I’m always trying to find this particular clip! Shows how aware and forward thinking Lucas always was with technology. Seems like a direct reaction to making the special editions too, he had so much fun and saw how he could modify an existing piece like never before and knew the fans would be all over modding to their own taste too.

And yes he was absolutely okay with it, I even remember Lucasfilm allowing fans to download a library of sound effects, that’s his thing he’s very pro creatives. He even wanted to see The Phantom Edit until it became about fixing his mistakes and turned into a prequel bash.

SWOTFAN25 said:

George was heavily involved not only with revolutionizing CGI and HD digital cinema cameras, but also digital editing software with the creation of EditDroid.

Also advised on Final Cut and a few others, I’m not sure if it’s confirmed anywhere but he may have consulted on some Adobe too like Photoshop.

Great stuff, GuardianoftheWhills, I agree with so much of that, it feels like the obviously correct route but that’s my opinion. I love the idea of digging into the past searching temples or even the crashed Death Star. Things the ST only half tried at best.

I had a rewrite scene in mind a while back based on the concept images of the sunken Death Star covered in vegetation and Luke running his academy with a handful of students calmly investigating the remains, almost like busy work. They could be using those TPM style breathers to swim through the trenches, and Luke would be overseeing, walking on top of the water (too much?) along the trenches observing, remembering, their search is interrupted or the students find something that gives Luke a bad feeling, he closes his eyes and the water ripples beneath his feet and the students underwater hear his voice clearly call to them to return, that there’s danger here.

Maybe overkill but I wanted more quiet moments with training lessons to build the world while still advancing some mystery, it should have intertwined more and let us have a feel for Luke as an advanced Jedi and teacher and the grandchildren as part of a generation that’s still very connected to the consequences of the previous generations.

I know some would rather ignore prequel continuity; but in light of TPM where we see 3p0 switched on and react embarrassed to have his parts showing, leans more in the category of sentience fresh out of the box as opposed to learned behavior over time. Threepio honestly hasn’t changed very much his “arc” is mostly managing to survive with the group.

Pretty sure George’s favorite episode of TCW is the droids discussing existential questions about what is sentience while roaming the desert.

Vladius said:

Peter Pan said:

Honestly, the battle droids and general evilness alone should be enough to connect the Separatists and the Trade Federation. Both organizations are hilariously generic in the sense that we learn practically nothing about their precise motivations. All that is given in the movies is that the Trade Federation doesn’t want to pay taxes because they are greedy, and the Separatists? Well, they are characterized by their dislike for the Republic and the Jedi. Based on the abundance of big companies present at Dooku’s meeting, we can infer that they share the same bland motivation as the Trade Federation, money.

So, I think the distinction between the two can be put in the crawl of ROTS, without losing anything.

Actually, the bigger question is why Dooku is on their team. His supposed motivation to leave the Jedi and the Republic is the corruption of the senate, but the first thing he does after leaving is founding the League of the Uber-corrupt, super-capitalist of the galaxy. It just doesn’t make any sense. I mean, what greater good could justify this absurd action against his actual beliefs?

Yeah, visually it’s a no brainer. All the battle droids, droidekas, and neimodians are there from the start of ROTS. I just mean if I’m putting the episode 2 stuff at the end of TPM. When Palpatine says that he’s making an army to counter the increasing threats of the Separatists, it should be established that the Trade Federation is one of the groups of Separatists he’s talking about. They’re part of a trend. If anything I think it would make sense to put it in the crawl of TPM that the Federation is a Separatist group, and then reference it at least once or twice somewhere else.

For Dooku I won’t get into any detail. He’s just Sidious’s apprentice next in line after Maul. It’s a shame to leave out all the subtlety but as you said it’s not well put together anyway. His identity is tied too much to the AotC bonkers mystery plot and I’m trying to cut out 98% of that movie.

Part of a trend is a good way to put it, could be further explained in a crawl, replacing taxation of trade routes is in dispute (which bores everyone out of their skulls) to be more focused on these brand new battle droids the federation are mass producing for the first time (like the dark trooper in Dark Forces).

That is what appears to be happening anyway but it could be lifted from a background detail to opening crawl emphasis as the guiding sinister plot, then it’s super clear that Naboo is an experiment like how Alderaan was a test run for the Death Star, a power grab to seize control by ambush and sort of mob rule the galaxy, planet at a time, overwhelming through numbers. Greed motivates weapon trade and planets mean resources so it’s a vicious greed power cycle. Really show how the Clones became a neccessary evil because the Republic had their hand forced from the opposition printing droids by the thousands every day from an unknown source, supplying to any Separatist buyers who want out of the government rule of the Jedi and the Republic.

I do think that would be easy to translate because it all tracks with the movies, the crawl can help frame it better by being extremely direct and simplified, then it’s more like ANH which spends most of the first act or more repeating what the opening crawl already said was happening.

Definitely onto something, I think even previous drafts of RotJ had more going on with Boba and I can imagine when there was still going to be an Imperial city Boba could have done some nice jetpacking espionage, maybe we could have had some combination of the prequels Coruscant night chase with OT style speeder bikes except through skyscrapers instead of trees. After Jabba dies it should be all the more motivation for Boba to continue to track Luke, beaten up but escapes the Sarlaac. Luke can still give himself up, it just doesn’t have to happen on Endor, they’re back on the Death Star in the end anyway so it depends on how you choose to rearrange the elements if you mean to rewrite. It would be tricky to not retread ESB though, I’d personally try to work with that by making Boba do a fun double cross arc like a reverse Han moment where he sabatoges the Imperials for his own mercenary chaotic means when he either can’t get his bounty or they try to betray him with a firing squad to cut off loose ends now that Vader has Luke, Boba gets an action beat taking out a stormtrooper army with ease, if you want to cut Endor entirely we can kill two birds with one stone and take it all to the city, Boba blows up the shield generator in an act of renegade defiance and leaves like an antihero riding off into the sunset.

Don’t forget the droid being tortured with a hot iron in Jabba’s palace, in addition to human emotions the droids also can feel some degree of physical pain. R2 has a famous yell when he’s electrocuted, 3P0 is always complaining about his aching joints, his cowardice even to an extent is to avoid pain or destruction, so he also has a sense of mortality. Both even have private feelings about situations they’re in, while they’re always in servitude they can still feel affection for their owner but have a sense of autonomy, refuse commands or act stubborn. “We’ll be sent to the spice mines of Kessel” so even a robot can differentiate enslavement vs completing any other task like a real machine.

I also feel that the droids ability to feel sensations is neccessary for their ability to feel emotions, which is also connected to their ability to understand humans and required for their own sentience and sense of independence or personal identity.

Channel72 said:

The nuked refrigerator scene in Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull is the best scene in that entire movie. Despite being ridiculous, it’s the only scene with a distinct 1950s personality befitting the premise of the film. The majority of the rest of the movie is just a bland rehash of chase sequences from earlier films set in a non-descript boring jungle, and could easily be transplanted into the 1930s if you swapped out the Soviets for Nazis and the glass skull for whatever. Instead, the movie should have taken Indy to East Berlin, and eventually culminated in an action sequence at a secret Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan.

(Alternatively, Indy should probably not exist in the 1950s, because Cold War Indiana Jones starts to closely approximate James Bond if you stray too far from the ancient civilization archeology angle, yet the “adventurous archeologist” trope is anachronistic after British colonial rule in the Mid-East begins to collapse.)

Haven’t seen Crystal Skull in a long time but this is all true.

StarkillerAG said:

Evangelion is an incredibly overrated anime. I used to be a big fan, but now it just seems like a mess of half-assed ideas and inconsistent tone that thinks it’s way smarter than it actually is. It would be a genuinely great series if they just made 3 changes: flesh out the background lore and side characters, tone down the awful humor and creepy sex appeal in the early parts of the series, and replace the pretentious esoteric monologues with more of a “show don’t tell” approach to exposition. But in its current state, I wouldn’t call it a “cinematic classic” like everyone else does.

🤘

cap said:

act on instinct said:

SparkySywer said:

act on instinct said:

There’s enough evidence for me that it was intentional, Lucas is fascinated by the fall of Rome and what happens to societies preceding their collapse.

There’s some quote by Lucas comparing the fall of the Republic to the fall of the Roman Republic (comparing Palpatine to Caesar), and he comments that dictators don’t come to power at the head of a conquering army, but by turning institutions in on themselves.

So this guy’s fascinated enough by the fall of the Roman Republic to base a trilogy off of it, but not enough to know that Caesar actually did come at the head of a conquering army? The Senate gave him dictatorial powers after he conquered Rome, and it was an attempt to limit his power, not to give him power.

Palpatine also seized power through a coup via order 66, and with an army he created. I’m not sure I see the contradiction.

I’m not sure that even counts as a coup. The Senate approved these of the Clone army, and I’ve always been under the impression (though it’s admittedly not established canonically) that the “emergency powers” they gave him authorized him to order the targeted killing of enemies of the Empire.

It’s a coup because it’s a violent military sabotage, there wasn’t a plot by the Jedi to overthrow the Republic, the Senate is only complicit based on lies.

Servii said:

I agree with what SparkySywer said above.

I get what George is trying to say about attachment, but it bugs me that he considers emotional connection to your own mother, or simply the act of falling in love with someone, as something problematic. Anakin falling for Padme is portrayed as a dangerous thing, like it’s a “sin,” but Anakin’s behavior towards Padme doesn’t become overtly possessive until RotS. It’s hard to gauge what Lucas considers to be crossing the line from “good” love to “bad/possessive” love. And we don’t really see much of the Jedi showing that compassionate love to people. And maybe that was intentional, but I don’t think it was.

I understand the resistance to the ideas about attachments but that’s really something to take up with Buddhism/Hinduism more than Lucas who is being a pretty loyal messenger to the eastern view on such things, rather than misinterpreting or inventing.

From the Bhagavad Gita, I’m sure it will sound familiar:
https://panindiahindu.wordpress.com/2017/05/17/love-vs-attachment-in-the-context-of-gita/

Funny how some fans continue to hang their hopes on a Star Wars savior, before release it was Deborah Chow, now Andrew Stanton in the final hour is going to save it. I do think he’s a good writer and writers are more of what’s needed for the franchise, but at the same time…fool me once.

DrDre said:

The whole scene makes very little sense. It would be much more logical for Reva to present herself as a friendly face, and a representative of the Empire put in charge of bringing Leia to the safety of her parents, in hopes of getting at least some information. All Leia knows is, that she was taken by some pirates, and then apparently rescued by a former Jedi, who themselves are wanted criminals. There’s no subtlety in Reva’s character. She’s just a one note villain, who’s inept at interrogating a little kid, fails to recognize her innate Force ability (which is her job), and wants to torture her for information, she likely doesn’t have. Presenting a friendly face would make the Reva character more interesting, and competent, being able to do more than just yell and scowl.

Glad to see this, that moment also stuck out to me as really Disney-fied like they’re playing to the kids out there who see themselves in little Leia. That’s fun in an interactive theme park setting and ultimately Star Wars is for the kids more than the adults, but for a serious scene the more intense the interrogation got the sillier it was. If Reva handled the situation like you suggested (which is how real interrogations typically go) the whole scene would improve, Reva would have more dimension as a calculated villain instead of her usual one note, and Leia by rejecting her manipulation would reinforce her inner wisdom and even call back her skepticism of Kenobi in episode 2. I get it, the inquisitors are ruthless and it’s sort of been established that force mind reading is Reva’s thing, but in the wrong scene with the wrong character it can (and in my opinion did) go over the top and feel even cheesier than all the last minute saves.

Reva better break out that backstory soon and it better be worth it, right now the more she tries to act scary the less intimidating she gets, the character is becoming a cartoon.

Anyone notice the camera shake during the briefing scene being especially excessive? During the wide it looked like it was filmed on a boat, the angle almost falls over. I can accept why it’s used for action scenes but much like all the long walks the overkill makes it stand out even more as a crutch to create artificial drama.

I was ready to say this was one of the higher quality episodes visually before it was over, at least an underwater base is more inventive than any of the settings so far, but by the end it falls apart. Again we have another hallway fight but I’ll take it over the fakey landing platform. The torture room also stood out, not as fake just sort of strangely large with no purpose, it felt like they were compensating for the usual smaller sets.

The inquisitors didn’t have to be a mistake, the mistake is that they’re like power ranger villains.

yotsuya said:

I am still baffled that anyone thinks this show is poorly done. It is a hit with fans in general and the only reason it will never be as popular as The Mandalorian is that it doesn’t have Baby Yoda (possibly the single most popular character in all of Star Wars). But the production quality of all of them are top notch. I can’t see any issue with the set, costumes, acting, anything.

You gotta stop feeling so baffled by now, maybe you don’t see it but more than a few do. I’m actually pretty surprised myself, I thought I’d be the only one complaining about things like production and camera work but to see it so widely as a criticism even from those still otherwise enjoying the show speaks to at least some credibility. The sets don’t literally have to be falling over to be beneath the standard fans hoped for from such a high profile mini series.

RogueLeader said:

And you’re right about the Mandalorian. I went back and watched a clip from Season 2 and immediately noticed how the blocking looked so much more artistic/professional in comparison to what we’ve generally seen in Kenobi. (…) I don’t know if it is just because Favreau/Howard/Filoni and their crew have a better understanding of the Volume than the other creatives have.

This was what I was warning about when people specifically kept repeating they had more faith in Chow vs Favreau/Filoni based on their previous work, maybe you may personally like one over the other but Favreau was the one to introduce the concept of the Volume to Kathleen Kennedy in the first place, Chow was walking into the sandbox they built, the outcome really makes plenty sense.

I also have no nostalgia for ATLA and never watched until a year ago and can vouch for it being well made, still a kids show and probably overrated (what isn’t with the modern internet?) but in some ways I think it sticks its landing better than Harry Potter was able to, does right by the hero’s journey.

An example of cheap I would give is when Vader is walking through that residential street and there’s a close up on his boots in a tracking shot with no footprints on the dirt road where he’s stepping as he’s surrounded by civilians, it’s not a deal breaker but there are little things all over the place (and little sets) that add up.

If you aren’t bothered by the television standard more power to you, but remember this is what we’re getting instead of a movie, it’s not as win-win/more is more as some may have anticipated. Personally I don’t think the quality to quantity trade off paid off. Of course I say that but if the writing was a home run I wouldn’t even care.

(I did think episode 3 was the best so far relatively speaking.)

I think some people who had set their hopes especially high are slowly realizing they may have put too much faith in Deborah Chow, I think if this show doesn’t pull it together in the end she’ll have the Star Wars stink on her that Rian had and people will unfairly judge her abilities after pinning their hopes on her up to release. Some fans forgot they were still dealing with Disney here, the director is the patsy to blame for the studio’s continued failures.

(Glad for any of you enjoying the series so far though.)

I think as with Boba Fett and Solo expectations are going to be higher vs a wholly new thing because fans have enough of a reference point to see the narrative potential with these legacy characters, its relationship as a continuation invites comparison. Returns may always diminish but I fear Kenobi might be destined for mediocrity for the same reason it could have been great, it’s such a big deal and Disney is so afraid of fumbling they’ll never be willing to rock the boat enough to let something interesting happen, it’s a crowd pleasing deadlock, hope I’m proven wrong and Star Wars can still surprise.

I’m a big Better Call Saul fan myself and I have faith in Deborah Chow, but these SW projects have their own challenges and the visuals demand so much already. From what I’ve seen so far I am actually disappointed that even for a shorter length series it still carries more of a television feel than cinematic, they might be pulling their punches and each part will have some wow factor at least once per episode, but production value wise I’m not sure in the end if I wouldn’t have preferred a movie. Maybe I’m setting standards too high, it’s difficult enough for any show to achieve and maintain theatrical quality polish, in the case of an action packed sci-fi fantasy I think we might have already seen Disney hit the ceiling of what they can accomplish in live action, director aside.