Just stopping by to say even Empire will always live in the shadow of A New Hope, the OG. The only Star Wars that can live on its own. Everyone else already made great points I’m only giving my vote.
Ugh let’s just drop the phrase shakey cam, a discussion on style is much more interesting than a debate about semantics, it was clear from the start the term was being used in a colloquial sense anyway this is missing the point. We are in a pot hole.
But at what cost!?
Some of you here really feel the same way about ROTJ dropping the ball, and though I don’t care much for any of the sequels I finally understand. At the end of the day I still think ROTJ holds it together better but that may be by default. TROS is a regressive echo, I feel that pain for those who dislike the finale of the OT, now we’re living it again.
New theory: did TROS sacrifice itself to save Star Wars? We are back to square one again, maybe if this trilogy was some LOTR masterpiece all filmed at once and planned ahead we could never escape it or the Skywalkers. The future is up in the air but I guess failure is the greatest teacher, better luck next time?
Also remember “it’s about family” I think they wanted to make a few thematic points with Rey choosing to be a Skywalker after learning she was a Palpatine. Unfortunately the film is so stuffed with pandering the message never hits deeper than the average Star Wars commercial out now. Remember when people online would quote that whole thing about some extended version of the idiom “blood is thicker than water” that reinterprets the phrase to mean choosing your family is actually what matters? This movie is like that, it’s also about dyads we’ll just sprinkle that word in to fill up any cracks. It’s almost like they got lost in the sauce, the situation is both over complicated and dumbed down at the same time. Maybe it would have been enough that two Jedi fell in love, no Emperor, you can still reinterpret the rule of two but that would be more in the background of lore discussions rather than the forefront of the plot. The characters suffer the same fate as the fans with their obsession with the past. This was what RJ and TLJ fans were talking about when they said things had to move on, whereas JJ feels going forwards means going backwards. My biggest issue with this trilogy will remain how little it gets to be its own thing, I think they should have broken convention split the finale into 2 movies and delayed IX a year, distance from the impulse and panic that reeks from its rushed misguided choices.
Wouldn’t it have been actually hilarious though if Rey redeemed Palp by the end?
You bring up excellent points Broom Kid, it’s interesting how fickle we can be, in TFA there are both shots I find too “modern” for lack of a better word AND too traditional at other points. Definitely a lot is preference, I never actually liked the slow motion in ESB either. All that said I will maintain one distinction that’s just a personal gripe that I think is at the heart of the complaint which has less to do with betraying the original visual language and more with using a set of tricks we’ve all become accustomed to seeing in action/blockbuster movies over at least the last 10+ years. I’m going with calling it rumble this time, beyond Star Wars this way of putting the camera itself into the action as less omnipotent and more conscious for me really acknowledges the presence of a physical camera within the scene, these atmospheric tricks are very effective in video games and movies like Saving Private Ryan, but in a fantasy setting they just don’t sit right with me and do take me out of the story instead of immersing me in the middle of the action as is the intention. I can accept that’s just a personal pet peeve and it’s not something I would apply exclusively to Star Wars either, but yeah can’t say I like it. RJ’s visuals to me stay much more true to the operatic heightened style than JJ’s on the ground realism, of course Star Wars was always the dirty fantasy so it’s not an obvious balance.
OutboundFlight I think you have the right idea, for better or worse this is the drinking buddies movie!
Missing the forest for the trees, this is not just limited exclusively to whatever degree of shimmy qualifies enough to be considered shakey cam but also JJ’s overall style. And I understand what RU.08 means, I hate the snap zooms and all these overly elaborate sweeping shots and whips with no point other than to inject a sense of artificial energy that people seem to just see as modern movie making now and not erratic, of course the camera is more mobile and versatile than it ever was before but for myself this sort of awareness of a camera takes me out of the universe in the context of Star Wars. (yes I am aware the now famous digital snap zoom started with AotC)
I mentioned that one before. It’s one of the only moments in the entire film when the camera does that. The fact that that’s your only example does not help your case.
It’s not the camera at all, it’s intentional. This is what it would look like if stabilised:
I would avoid this example though, I wouldn’t say there’s inappropriate camera shake in ESB when asteroids are hitting the falcon, similar in this scene from TFA the falcon seems to be having a rocky ride, in your stabilized version now bb-8 is strangely wobbling around for no reason.
This thread is where we speculate on if/how/when we may eventually see a director’s cut or otherwise extended/“ultimate” edition of Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker.
With rumors of multiple cuts including a missing 20 minutes, along with the current backlash over the movie feeling rushed and confused to many (at least a messy edit to put it politely), I wonder if Disney would attempt to go full Blade Runner/SnyderCut here and try to release a non theatrical version of the film as penance for damage control. How likely do any of you feel this might happen? Would they go there?
As a courtesy to fellow members, when linking to youtube videos or articles etc, please give both the title and source to which you are linking to - thank you.
Wobbly can we call it?
Wow, did the website just throw down with a distinction between trilogies now? Just came back in to say I think what I’ve settled on by now is what kind of bad the movie is to me. It’s sort of like watching Droids, the cartoon…or forces of destiny…maybe at its best mixed with an okay 2 parter episode of Doctor Who? For the kids it’s still going to be exciting, similar to my feelings on TFA I wish some time was taken to live in the worlds rather than jerk us around, honestly those return trips to Exogol by the end themselves became very silly it felt like going to the bathroom at your local mall. Forget Batuu give me Exogol I already know my way around! I mean the movie feels like a fever dream. Remember when Rey heals the worm? That was worse than the Rathtars, why can’t they figure out monsters? I swear sometimes watching this felt like watching bible stories, it was so awkward. The kids will have something they can watch over and over again, we all grew up with a few movies like that we now know weren’t as good as the actual good ones, but we still liked them as kids. So fine, ignore us grouches, or don’t? I can’t really tell what movie they were going for in the end and I’m afraid to rewatch it for fear I will prematurely accelerate any deep forehead wrinkles in my face as I try…to understand.
Hard not to take the handling of Rose as a fuck you to Rose. I was willing to accept the first half, unfortunate as it is, when she doesn’t go on the mission. JJ wants it to be about the trio he set up. But the final battle where she does nothing? When they literally have horses and she doesn’t even ride one? The perfect place to at least throw the character a bone but nope.
Yeah dislike Rose all you want but that was straight up humiliating, really harsh thing to do to Kelly Marie Tran.
Nothing negates anything for me I can view each trilogy as separate, if anything now in retrospect ROTJ looks a little bit brighter.
So I have heard even with this final cut there was a last minute trim of roughly 20 minutes for the purposes of fitting in more showtimes (don’t quote me on this). I think that will help the legs over the holiday, especially for the young kids who are probably going to enjoy it no matter what and I’m guessing it will even be the Star Wars movie they want to rewatch most like many of us as kids did with ROTJ, just by how packed the movie is.
Excepting a few who really went low I think we all might have guessed a little high, my original 245 weekend prediction from end of the summer feels comical now.
Well yeah, exactly. I was fully expecting Palpatine to just say at the end before he died the same line that he said to Kylo… “I’ve been killed before.” That would have actually made sense. That’s the whole fucking point. You can’t defeat the dark side forever. They completely ignored that. Stupid.
This exactly, also why I really dislike the exchange of “I am all the sith” it felt like another last ditch attempt to tie together all and any loose ends. See? This HAS to be the end of the saga! That was all the sith!
Maybe it’s a reaction to knowing they couldn’t just defeat the Order like the Empire in ROTJ, needed to be distinctly final. But oh man what a ham-fisted fumble we got. I know this is intended for children but I felt like the intelligence level was operating on Nick Jr. scale.
Well along with the whole dyad thing the Palpatine relation feels like more of this shotgun approach of any connective tissue that will hopefully be enough to tie the loose ends and handwave any logic, whatever explanation works for you! This movie feels so meddled with I cannot imagine JJ with any sincerity is truly proud of the result.
This movie is too disorganized to have organized thoughts about it, was so sloppy I had to keep reminding myself I didn’t fall asleep through the middle, now I know what people meant by the plot is basically on a speedrun. What a gigantic waste even the ridiculousness of it all got old. Genuinely feel bad for all still invested up to this point. We’re going to be feeling this one for a while.
EDIT: Also the Carrie Fisher scenes played out like those old fake “interviews” Weird Al used to do.
This will probably be controversial but I kind of wish they had let Rian finish the series off!
Don’t think it’s going to be all that controversial, already seen it going around and I might even agree. The what if debates may rage on indefinitely for the foreseeable future as to who between Rian and JJ should have been left alone to be given the trilogy, uninterrupted. Thinking about this whole thing to do with having everything planned out ahead of time feels more like a reaction to a collision of visions. Also the rose tinted glasses given to the prequels may stem from this, you knew it was a singular vision.
So I think I’m ready to go later if it’s not so packed, I know the spoilers so there’s no rush. I think the tables might have turned a little where those more invested in the sequels might be disappointed if they set a high bar and those of us who have disengaged and had low expectations can just have a fun time. Sure I’ll watch a CGI Luke and Leia, why not? Fan service as a last ditch effort might work, I just want to pay matinee price.
^This. You don’t need a master plan set in stone from the beginning; just don’t treat your series like an exquisite corpse.
deep cuts, really true
I have a bad feeling about this…
Really though, willing to guess that score will make its way over the line to “fresh” by the end of the weekend.
I just came here to comment on the yellow lightsaber as well! Always was a favorite and the color I imagined myself having ever since the Jedi Knight series, the sequels haven’t landed for me so far but I also was strangely happy to see it, possibly my new favorite saber design?
Safe to say I’m going to be waiting as well, though the nosedive in quality my local theaters have taken over the years shoulders more than half of the blame, unfortunately.
Broom Kid said:
With Snyder’s take on superheroism, there’s no real journey anywhere. It’s just sort of a very loud, posed, rigid stance that doesn’t lead to any further understanding or thematic depth beyond its own superficial opening statement, because all it’s really trying to do is justify itself.
This was where I found the dismissal, or at least the double standard, my point about camps though is not directed specifically towards you, more the perception of when it is okay to trash a movie for not being what you wanted from the property and when it is fanboys who are using material outside the film to justify their taste preferences as objective. And that’s not what I’m also doing when I said you can see where Rian was coming from, I don’t even see how you disagree with me as much as you do I feel like we’re mostly on the same page.
Broom Kid you sort of prove my point when you dismiss one filmmaker over another, just swap the names.
Broom Kid said:
I see what he’s trying to do, and I understand why he’s trying to do it. I just think he’s not doing a very good job of communicating it.
this basically sums up my TLJ feelings, and why I made the comparison to begin with, both are using characters that have die hard fans who say the filmmaker broke the “rules” i.e. Batman doesn’t kill/Superman wouldn’t do this, and so on. But depending on which camp you’re in, one is heresy and the other is just fans mad they didn’t get what they wanted.