Safe to say I’m going to be waiting as well, though the nosedive in quality my local theaters have taken over the years shoulders more than half of the blame, unfortunately.
Broom Kid said:
With Snyder’s take on superheroism, there’s no real journey anywhere. It’s just sort of a very loud, posed, rigid stance that doesn’t lead to any further understanding or thematic depth beyond its own superficial opening statement, because all it’s really trying to do is justify itself.
This was where I found the dismissal, or at least the double standard, my point about camps though is not directed specifically towards you, more the perception of when it is okay to trash a movie for not being what you wanted from the property and when it is fanboys who are using material outside the film to justify their taste preferences as objective. And that’s not what I’m also doing when I said you can see where Rian was coming from, I don’t even see how you disagree with me as much as you do I feel like we’re mostly on the same page.
Broom Kid you sort of prove my point when you dismiss one filmmaker over another, just swap the names.
Broom Kid said:
I see what he’s trying to do, and I understand why he’s trying to do it. I just think he’s not doing a very good job of communicating it.
this basically sums up my TLJ feelings, and why I made the comparison to begin with, both are using characters that have die hard fans who say the filmmaker broke the “rules” i.e. Batman doesn’t kill/Superman wouldn’t do this, and so on. But depending on which camp you’re in, one is heresy and the other is just fans mad they didn’t get what they wanted.
Ha yes I did find that funny as well they seem to at first claim the problem is fans drawing lines in the sand then sort of draw their own, again just because you can fit the puzzle pieces together like that doesn’t make it not sloppy. Definitely the force seems to be at the heart of it but I feel like the author nearly misses their own point when explaining its tie to gratifying character development, and our suspension of disbelief which can be based on internal logic rather than explicit realism.
NeverarGreat said:
I guess Kylo’s inner turmoil is merely a result of a mathematical equation in which his power must turn positive to oppose the negative energy of Snoke in the absence of Luke (…) constrained by talk of Midichlorians or reductive agency-stealing math problems.
That really hits the nail on the head for me, you put it so well. When Snoke said that line I really remembered feeling talked down to, like I’m just supposed to accept it because the math checks out, later I think the author does the same in mixing arcs and character traits.
Sure if you are empathetic to Rian Johnson’s vision (this is if you don’t already like the movie) and look through his lens you can see where it was coming from, but I hardly see people do the same for Zack Snyder when he attempts his own interpretation on legacy characters that have already been rebooted. To me there’s a lot of fashion bundled in with the whole thing. Of course, need it be restated, you’re free to enjoy all of it or none of it or anywhere in between.
That is a good video, with a well reasoned articulated take I mostly agree with considering how large the fanbase really is. The only thing I dislike (and to the creator’s point this did start in fairness from the opposition itself and all those annoying overlong video essays) is when those who disliked TLJ are so quickly characterized as disagreeing with its themes. Can’t I just have plain not enjoyed the movie? Personally for me it’s not that the ideas were against my rigidly religious view of the force or Luke Skywalker, I thought the movie had groaner lines flat humor and awkward pacing, great performances with slick visuals but poorly packaged. I don’t rage over TLJ when I watch it I just get bored. I’m a movie fan way way before a Star Wars fan, I didn’t hate the movie for “doing wrong by my Star Wars” if anything I’ll be more forgiving, I didn’t enjoy the overall execution.
Of course that leaves less to talk about ad nauseam over 2 whole years like nerds can when disputing lore, so I can understand how it ended up over time becoming that as the main focus of discussion. Like the video creator states, nitpicking is sort of what that side of youtube is for. Nothing against this particular creator though who seems to have a good head on their shoulders about the whole thing.
I may have lost interest in the story being told but I still appreciate the sense of grandeur in the visuals that I wish was closer to where we started.
So glad you all bumped this thread back up in time for release week! OutbandFlight you make a great case and I mostly buy it, I guess it all depends on whether the movie makes complete sense that your theory should, but my only question is what about Snoke? To wrap the bow tighter maybe Kylo finds the macguffin in his personal effects? I personally would prefer that lead down a general Sith trail than any real connection between Snoke and Palpatine, who is more waiting to be summoned/reawakened like a vampire.
Here’s one, in the final cut they use an alternate take for “They fly now!”
(bonus points if it’s the same in the theatrical but on streaming and physical it’s changed).
Or only the lowest one and iris out on the single? Then make up your own symbology from there.
So does or does it not end on a binary sunset?
I also thought ANH from the start made it very clear even in the crawl that the Death Star is brand new and hardly represents the whole of the Empire. The battle was won but not the war. Really not the same implications at all it feels like a big stretch.
I think memes have become in terms of movies/tv a sign of good health, it’s the culture communicating with what’s currently relevant and engaging to them. But such as the nature of memes returning Palpy might have been a corporate misread of this.
I think it’s just pointing to redemption again.
To be clear the point of my initial post was in fact to say although this thread will contain some personal anecdotes they do not alone form the basis of my prediction. I have been looking at the same numbers, reading comments all around wherever I can and paying attention, the internet is a fair model for a window into the general public, I’m not just relying on my dentist telling me he’s lost interest in the series.
You got me excited enough my post basically doubled its size with my own spitballing, love fun constructive takes like this! Anyone intimidated by long posts RogueLeader’s outline here is really worth it.
Really glad you took the time to write this all out, a very compelling script doctor and I’m 100% with you for about the first third. Lot of good suggestions that would seriously impact the pacing by introducing characters earlier and giving them chances to breathe and share their perspectives on where they came from and their place in the war, there’s a lot of fun parallels to play with when also considering the other half of the story. Not so sure about the Finn sleeper cell twist especially having to fight commands that does seem too corny and contrived to me. But Finn can still be held to some level of indirect blame. Maybe to try and get clever about it his body itself potentially has a tracker that turns on the moment he wakes up from his coma, maybe as a way to recollect or keep track of FO troops that went AWOL, FN-2187 was declared too severely injured or dead on a planet that exploded, but when he awakes his condition is back to stable in a new location which immediately pings the First Order’s radar which would be under the supervision of Phasma. I also like the dynamic of Finn caught between being called a traitor by both sides.
I remember wishing there was more of a spy thing happening on the Raddus as well, also gives a bit more dignity to Poe to raise mutiny over, but I’d still worry the ship wouldn’t be either big or interesting enough compared to a planet. Of course, if a “spy” is transmitting their location it can really be a number of planets and the Raddus itself is more like a cloaked hub the Resistance uses as a proxy to scatter and hide their members in different bases like an underground railroad as a crude method against the First Order which quickly seized new levels of control and surveillance, then we can eliminate the entire slow chase and instead replace it with a hide and seek mind game ambush when the Supremacy ultimately reveals itself. Also explains the beginning how the FO keeps finding them wherever they are almost immediately, hence still on the run. This could eventually lead to the “nobody’s coming” levels of desperation by the end as the Resistance has really gone place to place and through their own running for their lives endangered others, out of resources and out of favors. Leading up to this the paranoia of the Resistance could rise being much more careful of identifying everyone shuffling in and out of the Raddus seeing them make hard choices with saving refugees and such giving Rose real weight to her job, then when Finn wants to leave it is no joke, neither when Poe wants to disobey orders to not just go back and forth to whichever system he’s assigned, seeing it as pointless distraction reaching a boiling point where he publicly accuses Holdo to be the spy, maybe previously confidential intel, inciting a panic. If we run with the idea Finn is a tracker that’s back online once he’s out of his coma, that can also be around the time Holdo shows up, which makes the catalyst for Poe’s suspicion it’s her rather than just rejecting her as an authority figure.
Ha guess I’m pretty passionate about this section of the film too, especially when it seems more unanimous even to those who liked TLJ these were the weakest elements. I just hated being bored by the lack of conflict on the Raddus and I definitely felt like Canto Bight was meant to be the fun part of the adventure but it just didn’t work for me at all.
Well put! Completely agree, the dynamics of the characters were there and even just the emotional relationship was established in the first movie. Whereas in the Palpatine instance I think it feels more shoed in by having two characters who have no prior involvement between each other and trying to substitute that gap with the family connection rather than a development over the last two films.
It’s a predictions and expectations thread, none of us are being dishonest about when we’re speaking from anecdotes, if we aren’t giving our perspectives what’s the point of the thread?
What other relevant numbers can be tracked here? I see people checking youtube views and making comparisons, with the internet more of those analytics are public. So I don’t think it’s really just here, yes it’s some anecdotal but part of what I’m getting out of the speculation is each our own temperature read of the room. This will make a good record later when we can all look back and see how we put our foot in our mouths. But this isn’t the only website I go on, I’m like anybody else basically reading the digital morning newspaper most days, and now in December I’m personally not seeing very much hype, beyond my inner personal circle. Not dead in the water by a long shot but I don’t know when the hype machine is supposed to really take off with just over 2 weeks away.
Loved all the little touches, score replacements were fairly smooth colors popped, especially enjoyed the sort of bloom added to lasers it had a surprising effect that made it look much more modernized!
I think it depends on how the groups are framed, I recognize a small number in plain old haters who are very loud and opinionated. Most cases generally I’m a lurker with the silent majority, so I think in terms of box office predictions it’s more about those in this thread who have expressed their lack of interest and how far that ripples out, rather than the high vitriol as the main culprit.
If they already sort of want to see it, I expect word of mouth to be pretty measured so I wonder if the end will resonate half as well as it did at the beginning. That’s what I mean I think all the conditions are fair for that viewpoint, okay it’s an episode, and the last of the saga and last of this current trilogy on christmas, now if people don’t see it, they just really didn’t care to see it.
Well this is exciting! Ultimately the answer to the question, what’s the collateral damage actually? I have a friend who doesn’t want to go but I could probably convince him, and there is that fresh holiday spirit, as time goes on I think even the haters are a bit less boycott and more why not, and why not? So the release date is prime real estate, right in the pocket, Solo was said in retrospect to have had a bad release date so now I think it’s a great way to see the conclusion of the experiment. That is, until the next thing I guess…
Revise my opening down to 217, please.
Broom Kid said:
Star Wars fandom is a very small percentage of the general audience, and the percentage of that fandom who is adamant about boycotting is a tiny fraction of THAT already small percentage.
If we’re going to be throwing the word percentage around it should come with a rough number and not just some vague idea of percentages. We don’t know how many even of the general audience also wouldn’t be going, that’s making the same mistake made with the fandom that they’d show up for any new release. We can only speculate until the facts roll in.
Could you not also apply some cycled noise/grain to blend the mask so it appears less static? Or depending on how confident you are in compositing maybe that side of the frame can be filled with some steam like the rest of the shop. Otherwise it’s near seamless and took me a moment on first two watches to even realize what you had done!
There’s the obvious of course: Gustav Holst - Mars
For anyone who has never looked into the use of temp score in any Star Wars this is very much worth its own watch as well.