act on instinct

So is this for an outline? How far do you plan to form these ideas?

ShamanWhill said:

DominicCobb said:
This thread is just speculative fan fiction. Don’t pretend it’s anything else.

Of course. I never said it wasn’t. I’m sorry you came into here thinking it was otherwise. I should’ve been more clearer. I would like to justify our “fan fiction” though: at least it’s more rooted in the creator’s ideas than Disney’s trilogy was. So which one is the real fan fiction?

Maybe this discussion should be moved to the Script Writing and Re-writing section?

Cthulhunicron said:

I think you could also argue that a force user that is trying to maintain a balance between light and dark would not stay neutral. A grey force user, to me, seems more like ANH-era Han Solo, but with a lightsaber and force powers. I can see someone like that being guided somewhat by their emotions, and not afraid to get involved in a conflict if they’re angered by some injustice.

The problem that arises for me, is that this again doesn’t seem that dissimilar from a regular Jedi, just maybe a bit more self serving. We’re told from dialogue throughout all 9 movies that once you start embracing the dark side, it corrupts you. So even if someone believes they can maintain a balance between light and dark, I feel like they will still wind up being corrupted, based on the logic within the Star Wars films. The dark side is defined as embracing anger, hatred, and lust for power. I don’t really see why someone should try to incorporate those emotions into their life if they are seeking balance. I don’t see any evidence that TLJ or TROS are advocating a “middle path.” Luke says the Jedi need to end, but then later says he was wrong.

I think a lot of people are misinterpreting the dark side as simply being emotions, and that embracing the light side necessitates suppression of all emotions.

This is how I feel, I see the criticisms in the Jedi Order of the prequels, but not the concept of a Jedi. Yoda never renounced the title, or Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon, unless they were Jedi in name only (JINOs) and were secret greys I don’t see why Jedi has to be so limited. And again I’m not sure where grey would even take us narratively.

yotsuya said:

So I don’t see the Jedi we have seen as balanced. We may see something different a few hundred years earlier, but I think the problems with the Jedi go back to the split with the Sith (provided that piece of the EU stays accurate). It would be a natural turn of events for the Jedi to start teaching complete avoidance of anything pertaining to the dark side.

I feel like we’re getting closer, the idea that the force has further untapped potential hidden behind ancient misinterpretations would be really engaging to watch both sides try to discover the secrets. Almost Like the Sith dagger except not stupid.

ShamanWhill said:

And I understand your valid trepidation on demystifying the Force. Just remember that we’re going to make it clear, these beings feed off and control the Force. You could say they are the Force, but they still aren’t, they just control it. And it’s okay that we get close to answering these epic questions, because this is the ending of the Saga. We’re wrapping things up for good, leaving no questions unanswered for future sequels.

You have me in complete agreement there, I would say it’s impossible to leave NO questions unanswered but I’m very interested in the finality of a much more total resolution compared to the previous trilogies.

I will say there’s going to be a certain point where there just isn’t enough information for the sequels George would have made as those movies were not fully developed. I don’t think it would be absolutely wrong to take good ideas that would make sense from the trilogy and make use of every part of the buffalo here, they weren’t Lucas but they were still made by Lucasfilm and even if the details would change it’s always easier to edit from something than to write from nothing.

But couldn’t not taking a side produce or prolong suffering due to inaction? Wouldn’t under that definition disillusioned Luke be correct in no longer fighting? I think these philosophical questions are what the characters should be struggling with, but as the ultimate answer for me it doesn’t track, doesn’t resolve anything and I question how it even forwards the narrative. So much about Star Wars is about choosing trust and love and that being an active thing that even puts you in danger but it’s the right thing to do, balance as neutrality clashes against that for me.

There is a mix that makes sense and it’s somewhere between “Does it control your actions?/Partially, but it also obeys your commands”. The Force is on the one hand guiding but on the other it can be influenced, again there’s the idea of a Sith so powerful he could manipulate the midichlorians. With that in mind I’d much rather free will and its cosmic consequences be the thrust of the conflict over the Jedi being in the wrong about how they observe the force, with grey being the actual balance. Once selfishness is not considered a moral bad I think the mythos gets too muddied to follow. The Jedi are not infallible but they are in tune with the force to the extent that they can commune with Jedi from the other side and still exist in death, I think that lends some credibility.

ShamanWhill said:

The question is tho, where does this corruptor come from, and why did the Force allow this happen? I think it would be interesting if there was something going wrong with the Whills/the Force.

Seeing as the Sith are also ancient and the force can be wielded by them albeit through the dark side to me points a bit closer to the direction that the Force/Whills are a vaguely neutral energy that can be taken advantage of, unless they are playing a larger game. The Force does seem to allow bad things to happen then watch and see how it plays out so I don’t see a problem really with a person who does have free will abusing the force without the whills intervening so personally, ultimately I might wonder if those beings could even conceptualize morals in that way or at that scale. The whills should have some intention but the risk of demystifying and damaging the relationship of the force to the audience is at an extreme high, I definitely understand why going microbiotic to begin with is already too much for some though I find it vindicates their inclusion in the prequels. Embrace the Midi-Chlorian…

Words of wisdom to consider from Filoni about the force: https://youtu.be/USr1elOOWJg

Could you elaborate a bit more on the luring and sacrificing comment you made? I don’t know if harnessing someone else’s power is possible. You either have a high Midi-Chlorian count or you don’t.

This is actually a pretty hard one because the further we try to fill the gaps the more difficult questions concerning how the lore can be faithfully expanded need to be given an answer. I think harnessing a Jedi’s power after killing them also is a weak idea as well as derivations of that premise like collecting kyber crystals or anything along those lines would be too on the nose. Still, I think the closer we get to revealing beyond the veil and the inherent relationship between life and death to the spiritual realm there leaves room for interpretation as to where that energy goes and how it can be measured or perceived. As you mentioned with Luke his own misinterpretation could lead to his disillusionment, so even if the Jedi killer is failing to achieve this ultimate power through their violent means the motivation can stay the same, same as it ever was for dark siders really, misguided power seeking even if it means going through people.

Yub Nub!

Again I worry about characterizing the whills too far so much that they become individualized almost like greek gods, I’d rather see the evil act originate from a mortal character that corrupts the balance and we get a closer look at the interplay between the human will’s influence over midichlorians vs the whills. There can be a need for powerful force users to be lured and sacrificed to harness that power which could be what happens with Darth Talon. I think a lot of the trilogy arc would be the mystery behind the force as it builds to a climax, with dark siders and light seeking deeper, more ancient answers, hard and heavy on eastern influence.

That shot of Han in the sunlight, just perfect!

oojason said:

^ The disintegrated member

Completed with an on-fire-Anakin avatar.

Reel 2 is looking great! Reel 3 greatly improved on the color maybe it could be brighter like the last one but with the new color? Agreed Jedi is the most flat but the worst of it is on Endor and at Jabba’s, there’s another thread discussing use of Arriflex vs Panavision cameras which might make a difference to some. Still, the composited space stuff and the Imperial sets should look nice and shiny as they can be, those were old hat by then a lot of good work is in there, some beautiful well lit stages.

I would have loved to have seen the Whills, they are the deepest lore dive the series ever would have taken. As far as their ethereal nature I can only really think of themes and visuals (the quantum reality mirrored against space) over plotlines, but I like your idea that they might be discovered and considered a source of cosmic ring like power over the universe. I’m not sure how much further they should really be characterized or explained without diminishing their larger than life ever presence, should be about as ambiguous as the power of the ark in Raiders.

Honestly I think they would have to be the major plotline still to even communicate how important they are to the saga, it’s a consciousness commentary, I don’t think Star Wars has ever been as sophisticated and it’s extremely difficult to imagine how it would be integrated.

To leapfrog a bit off of what Sheev tells Anakin about the power to influence midichlorians I think this would be a great payoff to be fully realized, a Sith creation as some manipulation of dark matter. I also think invoking and involving the universe itself as representation of the Whills could become pretty cataclysmic and satisfyingly epic for a conclusion, both fated yet still down to individual choice. Multiply the hyperspace ram by a factor of an exploding star as the protagonist becomes more or less enlightened by the force and transcends as the literal “light” manifests and the universe and the individual operate as one (Neo-ish, if you like).

Giving this thread a bump as most of the links are long dead, is there anywhere else currently or anyone who might have the work that was done so far to restore these deleted scenes? Really love the thought of reinserting them for edits.

My background has more to do with photos and I would agree there’s levels of pop you would want to avoid for a video grade you would push in a photo edit. Also should be mindful of losing detail, the highlight on Padme’s right sleeve by comparison.

Also couldn’t help myself and made another mix plus a black and white version just for fun.

Good stuff, though I’m seeing a bit of a green cast in the shadows for reels 3 and 5 that could be more blue.

Completely agree it’s all marketing, I think it also shows some of the split personality the ST has, the trilogy can’t decide if “Skywalker” should end or carry on forever symbolically, almost synonymous with the force. Rey never really beat her identity crisis, neither did the sequels.

Yes that is absolutely what I was thinking! A bit dark but I actually like this direction best.

I’d punch in the contrast more for a more classic film look but it really looks in good shape and gives me hope for the amount of latitude there is to alter the look, the original sources are fairly neutral being such early digital.

Somewhere yet still further in between methinks?

(for the record this is a combination of both Dre and emanwfan’s mixes)

EDIT: added my own mix to the mix, not much changed apart from taking another cue from Dre and injecting some warm tones

The prequels also mention pre-destiny and premonitions of the future, in this way I think not only can you use flashbacks to prequel moments in the epilogue, but ominous flashforwards in the prologue. This could also help solve the “save the reveal” while not omitting key scenes you really want to show, you can decide what surprises to prepare people for early and later resolve hanging questions that show for example Anakin fall to the dark side and become Vader as Kylo is redeemed.

With an abundance of content it all evens out, spiritually is it less “special” in the same way? People have said as much after ROTJ and ewok adventures and each prequel. In time maybe those glimmers within TROS can be appreciated, but only by those who are open to it. For me it really was the lack of cohesion in the end which couldn’t string enough of the same people along all the way from TFA to TROS, will Mando take it as many years in seasons with the same level of captive attention? With an over-saturated market is the drop off comparatively worse? I think beyond superhero and Star Wars fatigue there is general blockbuster fatigue. Even a bad Terminator sequel feels associated with a general cultural reputation that in this sub category of franchise sequel/reboots (with or without returning original cast), the good ones are the exception and not the rule.

I just want to go to this thing, been hearing about it for the longest time. Too bad he couldn’t build it in Chicago like he wanted, but Lucas is no doubt a big picture guy and if you’ve ever been to any good art museum anywhere ever there’s really stellar things that can be done with that space to build an experience. Love the design concept for the building now let me go inside!

Call me crazy, but could this be, dare I say it, a 6-in-1? Maybe this is deviating from your ideal which might be to make 2 chapters to be viewed in a certain sequence, I’ve been grinding out my own prequel 3-in-1 and still finding it difficult to do any significant re-purposing due to lack of material, themes are abundant though and I love that you brought up Pulp Empire. I think you should follow that spirit, try to let each saga help the other. Many agree in the sequels Anakin is missing, with the prequels his story has a presence. Seems you can space out the scenes between each saga and have a lot more flexibility and leniency on missing details if it were combined. Just a thought.

Such a fun read, thanks for putting that together!

To me the very thing of Rose giving a direct speech to explain why Canto Bight is bad is the exact thing that I would categorize as part of the problem. And seeing Finn initially excited to be there just for the sake of receiving an explanation feels very maclunkey for my own tastes.