act on instinct

You’re right, that was intentionally provocative, I just wanted to see the spar over storytelling logic.

No speaking in riddles, please. If you have a counterpoint then explain it, taking things personally and huffing away is boring for discussion. We shouldn’t be engaging in clap backs, we’re smarter than this.

I’m not sure it is better, I’d appreciate more commitment before we stay marching in place for another 10 years.

Superweapon VII said:

act on instinct said:

Mocata said:

act on instinct said:

Channel72 said:

It’s just so hard to take Star Wars seriously if Rise of Skywalker is actually a thing that happened. Where do you even go after “secret fleet of 10,000 Star Destroyer Death Stars” and “Palpatine magically returns and electrocutes the sky”?? I can’t take it seriously after that because we are now firmly in the Spaceballs Universe and only Mel Brooks should be allowed to direct from now on.

I have a suggestion but I am holding it for ransom from The Walt Disney Company.

The classic “it was all a dream” cold open?

Too stale. Kick up a notch by making it a dream within a dream*.

*Within another dream if you’re feeling especially creative, but proceed with caution.

Dream within a dream is sufficient.

Mocata said:

act on instinct said:

Channel72 said:

It’s just so hard to take Star Wars seriously if Rise of Skywalker is actually a thing that happened. Where do you even go after “secret fleet of 10,000 Star Destroyer Death Stars” and “Palpatine magically returns and electrocutes the sky”?? I can’t take it seriously after that because we are now firmly in the Spaceballs Universe and only Mel Brooks should be allowed to direct from now on.

I have a suggestion but I am holding it for ransom from The Walt Disney Company.

The classic “it was all a dream” cold open?

Channel72 said:

It’s just so hard to take Star Wars seriously if Rise of Skywalker is actually a thing that happened. Where do you even go after “secret fleet of 10,000 Star Destroyer Death Stars” and “Palpatine magically returns and electrocutes the sky”?? I can’t take it seriously after that because we are now firmly in the Spaceballs Universe and only Mel Brooks should be allowed to direct from now on.

I have a suggestion but I am holding it for ransom from The Walt Disney Company.

Thanks for sharing this! Unlocked some memories I forgot I had.

This is like a monkey’s paw wish, yes I would love a fresh new adaptation of The Odyssey, but not like this…

clseibold said:

Eh, they could do what Star Trek did with The Next Generation: basically a “soft reboot” that doesn’t reboot the whole continuity, but focuses on new characters within the same universe. It’s not necessarily true that sequels have to depend fully on the movies that came before them, and I think Star Trek is one of the best examples of this.

It’s not that easy, Star Trek has a built in premise of multiple crews exploring space, Star Wars is a character drama, you can’t just discover a new alien race and call it a day. Plus these are sequels not spinoffs, they should be interconnected beyond the setting or what’s the drive?

The unwillingness to continue the canon and expand on it with new contributions will ensure this brand dies with the older fans, it is a long road into a dead end.

It may be counterproductive at this point to scapegoat Rey’s character deficiencies on gender when virtually every character I can think of in the ST is under-written. It’s almost too clean of an excuse when the overarching plot of the trilogy amounted to practically nothing. The overall meta is the worse issue for me, Disney is caught between selling Star Wars to the next generation and to the previous one at the same time, they knew they were making an active choice to soft reboot with TFA, and they had their reasons although now in hindsight it was a clear case of short term over long term gain. This nostalgia trap has not been escaped, even the more successful series rely on a status quo, locked in a time period of predetermined circumstances maintaining familiar iconography. Not that there isn’t something worthwhile about spinoffs enriching those eras, but it can’t be the only thing, it’s frustrating to spend so much time ultimately going in circles. That’s why I’d like a future for Rey, I’d like ANY future for this saga at all, I want my story back, we’ve been so starved for genuine progression and world building on par with the prior trilogies hardly anyone even believes in the potential of true sequels, it’s all been narrowed to a galaxy of stormtroopers, inquisitors, the same 4 species of aliens, x-wings/tie fighters and lightly tweaked lightsabers and droids if we’re lucky. The ST even backed out on anything close to new territory like the oracle in TROS. So the sky is the limit, unfortunately that takes risk and imagination.

Vladius said:

The message of Luke appearing in projection form isn’t that “the Jedi are good, actually,” it’s that image is everything.

Vladius said:

It isn’t necessarily consciously trying to be dour and cynical or make the audience feel bad at the end, but it’s clear that that is the worldview that it’s coming from.

I know I’m stepping in here late but I just wanted to say this is how hot people talk.

I am comfortable with a convenient time skip, it already has been a decade since 7, even 9 was pre-covid which is a lifetime ago for some. It’s about time as distance from the ST, no leads partnered up or did anything to necessitate they be old and make it a literal next generation this time, they can just add characters and expand on the new setting like they failed to do last time. I get it, rebuilding itself is underwhelming, but for the central mystery there’s enough roots for what I think is untapped story potential through all that was never satisfied in the first place, is soft rebooting worth it? If it’s good…

For what it’s worth I don’t really have faith in the team cracking this puzzle, but I do think there’s a solve that would do a lot to redeem the legacy or preserve some idea this saga has some through line or cohesion. This is actually the right opportunity in my opinion for a coda, but I might be idealistic. I just think there’s so much that can still be made of the remnants of Rey’s history, the dyad, maybe some still living knight(s) of ren, Poe/Finn/Rose growing more into leadership positions in the fallout, picking up the pieces. A lot can change or develop as much as post ROTJ.

But they are jumping off points that don’t exist yet, aren’t they? The real problem is defining a suitable existential threat that isn’t anticlimactic post-TROS, but the characters have untapped potential.

Those stakes you both mentioned feel close enough to ROTJ’s ending to me, albeit less satisfying, and the fact that the ST skipped over those moments actually benefits a Rey movie since we actually aren’t retreading if we never saw the challenges of rebuilding. There still needs to be a compelling hook on top, but I believe it’s a challenge a clever writer could handle.

Just dropping in to say I really enjoyed Trap and thought it was very well made, almost want to call it a modest instant classic.

That was always an issue with sequels, TROS and ROTJ just leave less reason to continue than ROTS which ends basically on a cliffhanger. If there’s no groundwork that’s almost better because the ST was bad, so we can start semi-fresh. I think there’s still something worthwhile about fulfilling Rey’s character and enriching that era, in some ways it’s not as shackled as the ST was, the OT trio are dead, their only offspring is dead, no Palpatine or Snoke or Hux…

it’s not quite starting from scratch but I personally feel there’s enough to salvage with a good story and I find that worthwhile if it can rehabilitate post ROTJ/TROS era Star Wars, in the best case scenario the worst of the ST is an awkward blip on the radar for Rey which doesn’t necessarily tarnish her ability to rise to becoming a more realized character, I don’t think Vader is held back by his awkward phase all these years later.

Mocata said:

There’s not point coming back now and trying to do anything post-TROS.

The real debate, I still think it’s doable and worthwhile in spite of all the damage done by TROS.

rocknroll41 said:

Rumor has it that Lawrence Kasdan is gonna be the new writer of this.

Don’t do this to me…

Did they announce it? Seems like it’s only in development which doesn’t mean much.

This was very compelling! I’ve seen a few 3d movies at this point and especially on a headset it can be very noticeable when the effect is done in post to a 2d movie, this was even better than other professional releases I’ve seen! A few shots were very immersive and had an extra pop to the scene like the droids on Tatooine, and of course the pov cockpit shots, one of a tie-fighter chasing Luke was particularly spectacular.

This is fantastic, Dre!

Gandalf the Cyan said:

I can give Lucas a bit of slack for the lucklusterness of the PT and ROTJ, since he was ultimately just trying to make pulpy Flash Gordon-esque adventures, not high-art movies. ANH and ESB, however, were so good that they’re generally considered to have entered into the realm of high art. He then fell into a trap where his subsequent films were expected to be masterpieces as well, and I agree that he could have definitely done better on them. But since he really knocked it out of the park on his first 2 SW films, fans’ expectations were higher than his.

I think that’s dead on, I’d add that apart from 2001 A Space Odyssey, which was long and confusing and boring to general audiences, Star Wars was the most realistic sci-fi adventure ever made, and everything from the props to the sound effects and costumes were never overtly cartoonish which lent a new level of immersion not thought possible for the adventure genre for anybody over the age of 9.

It’s all about the dyad…

Seriously though, that link with Ben is enough.

daveybjones999 said:

act on instinct said:

If the writer’s strike had an effect on this I wouldn’t be too surprised, though I can just as well believe the finale would always be this way, they already experimented with episodes in select theaters and this sounds like a suped up special.

This studio is so trapped by short-sightedness, it’s shockingly predictable, maybe this is their best bet back into movies, but something still feels cynical here, like they decided on it with a calculator more than a script. Do the masses still care about Grogu at this point? I’ve only heard about waning interest, how many times can the baby button be pushed? It’s not like baby groot kept going forever. Maybe I’m underestimating Mando but as safe as they’re playing this I think they might be in for some hurt again. Either way as someone not very interested in the adventures of the mandalorian even if it’s entertaining it still feels like the same holding pattern until the next one, I’d prefer to move on at this point. No more cliffhangers and empty promises, it’s tiring.

People say that, but according to the Nielson charts when season 3 was airing it was consistently the 3rd and 4th most-watched streaming show in the U.S. and it did better than both Book of Boba Fett, and Obi Wan in terms of minutes viewed. Season 3 was consistently around 800 to 1100 million minutes viewed while Bobba Fett was only around 500 million minutes (although it did make it to 800 million minutesa few times) and Obi Wan around 400-600 million minutes. It also did a lot better than Ahsoka which again was between 400-800million minutes. Sure critically Season 3 was considerably less well received, especially by fans, than previous seasons, but in terms of the amount of views it still mostly held up. I mean it did have less people watching than season 2, which was consistently around 1200-1300 million minutes , and I think its lowest week was around 800 million minutes, but again Season 3 did make it to 1100 million minutes viewed once or twice as well

I might be too caught up in merch sales, but I do think the Disney+ audience is more in a passive space, just another bill, usually on auto renewal and for a variety entertainment package. So I’m not sure if there will be as many people who would actively pay for a ticket and be willing to go to the theater, it would even be different if we were talking Mandalorian boxset sales.