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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
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25-Mar-2019
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Post
#1274747
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

SilverWook said:

I found a bunch of those SW weekly issues here in the states back in the late 80’s at a curio shop that sold everything from antiques to old magazines. Many of the pages had been colored in by someone with magic markers, much to my annoyance.

I can imagine that would be quite tempting to do as a kid. I did something similar to an illustrated book when I was like five years old. However, it actually turned out really well. I’m guessing you weren’t so lucky?

Post
#1274723
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

My latest haul of classic SW.
I’m in London so I went back to 30th Century Comics where I got some more Star Wars Weekly magazines last year. I’ve been trying to get some of the UK exclusive stories, but they didn’t have any this time so I picked the three which I felt had the most impressive covers. I’ve always really liked the SWW #92 cover (I even photoshopped a text-less version of it and a few others a while back.)

This time I also got some American SW comics (in addition to plenty of non-SW comics). And even though I generally only collects issues from the Goodwin/Infantino run, I figured I’d make an exception for ‘Riders in the Void’ because of the amazing art (and since it’s a standalone story). Ditto on the ESB Weekly issue, though Infantino did the cover (Al Williamson’s art also looks great in B&W).

Post
#1273923
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

SilverWook said:

I didn’t realize until watching the TPM extras again that this is taking place right outside Senator Palpatine’s apartment! I always thought they were meeting at some other location where they were not likely to be seen or noticed. You can even see in the documentary that it’s part of the apartment set.

Either the building Palpatine lives in is really empty, or the neighbors take no notice of him skulking around in a black robe and being visited by creepy characters. Meanwhile, Chancellor Valorum probably can’t go out for coffee without baseless charges of corruption being lobbed at him.

I can almost buy that Chancellor Palpatine has time to sneak off to a broom closet or something to put the robe on and give orders to his minions via hologram, but this is pushing it. 😛

It is a bit silly, but Palpatine was only the senator of a fairly unimportant planet at this point, so I guess it kind of make sense.

Though the idea of Maul just striding through the front door of a high class apartment building is kind of amusing. I’m guessing he snuck past the guard, or something.

Post
#1273801
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Zachary VIII said:

Spoilers for the canon Darth Vader comic series:

The clone biochips in canon are dumb. I’ve just read the Darth Vader comic and in it a Jedi uses Order 66 to make a clone squad turn on their Inquisitor leaders because they’re technically still in the list of Jedi. He just says “execute Order 66” and the clones start gunning down the Inquisitors. What the hell is that? Why is “Order 66” a magic spell that anyone can use now instead of only the Chancellor himself?

I’d assume because he (and probably Vader) were the only ones to know about the triggering phrase at that point. Most of the Jedi who heard it ended up dead, and Palpatine did end up replacing (most) clone troopers with recruits during the first couple of years of the Empire anyway.

I also can’t recall it ever being stated that the order had to come from Palaptine himself, which wouldn’t have made any sense as the Kaminoan’s didn’t know about Palpatine. I can’t remember the details, but a few high ranking Kaminoans were told it was a safeguard against rogue Jedi ordered by Sifo Dyas and Tyrannus/Dooku.

And the whole inhibitor chips thing did fail briefly during a Clone Wars arc, so it was never a foolproof method to begin with (probably because of all the secrecy around it). Basically the chips made them suddenly hate all Jedi, and since Sith and Inquisitor’s weren’t a thing when they were programmed into their brains, it makes sense that it’d give them an urge to kill anyone associated with the concept of “Jedi” in a generalized manner.

(Anyway, as with most PT/CW era ideas, it gets rather convoluted.)

Post
#1272119
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

This is a cool thing about the Mandalorian. I’ve heard a lot of people say it would’ve been cool if the First Order had been like anti-rebels, with limited equipment and resources. That would be cool to see. Something like a scrappy Imperial Remnant, and I think we could still get that in the Mandalorian, and stories like it that are set in this time period.

While the official Galactic Empire surrendered and the war is technically over, there could be a few straggling warlords holding onto control of a handful of far flung star systems. It seems the titular character in the Mandalorian will run into some kind of Imperial faction. Their exact identity is still a bit of a mystery, but this is what I’m hoping for. According the new canon the Empire was officially defeated one year after the Battle of Endor, but according to Jon Favreau this is a few years after that (like 2-3?), so that means the Empire still exists in some form (possibly as the proto-First Order or some other remnant faction like I mentioned earlier).

It could be reminiscent to the old EU, but these Imperial Remnants are more concerned with maintaining control over what little power they have left, rather than trying to take on the New Republic constantly. You could even have a new series like the Rogue Squadron novels that are about small New Republic units trying to liberate handfuls of systems from Imperial control.

I think it would be a nice middle ground between the old EU and the new canon. And if most of the Remnants they have dealt with over the years had been very minor threats on the galactic scale, it would help explain why they didn’t immediately perceive the First Order as a threat, thinking it was just another warlord faction barely surviving on the edge of known space.

This is exactly what I’ve been hoping for as well.

I’m a big fan of the post-Endor/Imperial-Remnant era in Legends, so it’d be really interesting if something similar were to show up in an actual SW TV show.

Post
#1272108
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

I think on the surface the OT and ST are similar, but given time for the canon to explore that time period (which they have been avoiding as to give as much creative freedom to the filmmakers as possible), these the two era can potentially feel quite distinct.

I think the political situation in the buildup to the war can be grounds for a very compelling story about politics and espionage. The show Resistance does get into that a bit. Spies within the Senate, and unknown threat in uncharted space.

I think this new war has a lot of potential to set itself apart from the Galactic Civil War as well. The Resistance can literally fit on the Falcon, even the Rebellion was better off in its worst condition. How will they recruit help? How will they actually fight the First Order? Will they use even more dirty, guerrilla tactics rather than open battles like the Rebellion did?

The First Order are invaders rather than the de facto government, how will they treat their citizens and the Resistance compared to the Old Empire? Will they be more radical? More aggressive? You also have the dynamic between the old guard and the new, the Imperials vets vs the First Order generation and how they perceive each other.

And for me, one of the most interesting things is the fact that the leaders on both sides are in fact mother and son. The family drama has manifested into a galactic-scale war, even more so than the Galactic Civil War if you think about it. I definitely think it is possible for this conflict to stand out from the OT, but I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how they handle it in IX and further media.

You make some great points. And I’ll probably soften up to the ST era EU in the future as they start to explore it in more detail and take more risks with the lore.

I am quite curious about what they’re planning to add in the thirty years between the OT and the ST.

DominicCobb said:

Well I’m fairness I don’t believe The Mandolorian would qualify as ST era.

True, but I feel like it’s going to “set-up” the First Order and other ST-lore at least in some ways.

Post
#1272104
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

I’m sure we’ll eventually get a decent amount of ST EU material, just seems like it’ll be delayed in comparison.

Hell, we’re getting a whole theme park experience as part of the ST EU, I’d say that’s pretty cool.

Sure, thought it’s not really the amount that is bothering me and many other fans, it’s rather that the new lore feels too similar to the OT. The PT, despite giving us awkward dialogue, bad CG, etc, etc. did at the very least give us a completely different conflict between new factions that felt different from the OT. ST material kind of just feel like a “reskin” of the OT rather than something new. Some fans like that, and I get why; “don’t fix what isn’t broken” etc. but for some fans it’s just kind of dull.

The new theme park does seem pretty impressive, and it’ll be fun to see how all of that is going to work out. And I am also quite exited about the Mandalorian TV series, so I do enjoy the new canon overall, I’ve just also gotten a newfound appreciation of the Clone Wars era in general.

Post
#1272102
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

That probably explains a bit why some PT fans hate the ST (and potentially vice versa?). I could give a shit about lore, and I feel like on of the biggest issues of the PT is putting lore and world building in front of effective storytelling. I mean I like SW lore, but in my mind that’s what the EU is for. When I watch a movie, I want a good movie, and in my opinion the ST delivers far above the PT in that regard.

I agree with all of the above, but I personally (like many fans) spend more time with EU material than just the movies. And so far I’ve had more fun with stories originating from the PT than the ST. It just boils down to individual priorities. For some fans the EU is really important and if the new movies don’t serve as platforms for interesting new stories, then those movies just aren’t that interesting to them, regardless of how well they were made.

As a film fan I admire the ST more than the PT, but as a SW fan I lean more towards the PT.

Post
#1272100
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

fmalover said:

I recently gave the prequel trilogy another try and you know what? My distaste for TFA has rekindled my appreciation of the PT. Now I enjoy, like really enjoy, the PT. Are they objectively bad movies? Hell yes, but I still rate them above TFA. That’s how much I dislike TFA.

I’ve had a similar experience, though for me it has more to do with the lore. Needless to say the PT films aren’t too well made, but I like the distinct world Lucas built for it much more than what we’ve gotten so far in the ST. For me SW is more than just the movies, and so far I’ve had no interest in the ST EU. The Clone Wars era EU on the other hand I’ve found more original and nuanced.

I’ve enjoyed the ST as movies, but the lore has IMO been very bland and boring.

Post
#1271838
Topic
Rian Johnson to Head New Star Wars Trilogy
Time

I think the biggest flaws of TLJ came from what little Abrams gave Johnson to work with. I honestly think the whole Luke plot-line, which seems to be what most SW fans who didn’t like the film complain about, was as good as it really could have been considering where Abrams ended TFA.

If Johnson gets to do a truly original SW trilogy I think it could potentially be really interesting. I think TLJ was simply too shackled by TFA’s re-use of OT ideas & iconography, especially Abram’s “Mystery-box” ending. I also don’t think Johnson works too well with “kid-friendly” material. I think if he was allowed to go in a direction more similar to Rogue One it would work a lot better. The darker aspects/moments of TLJ are IMO what worked best.

Post
#1270787
Topic
Proof of Lucas’ revisionism in Rinzler’s making-of book?
Time

I made a thread about the “George Lucas Explains his Universe” interview from 1977 included in Rinzler’s book a few years back.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Lucas-EU-in-1977-midi-chlorians-space-gypsies-and-crystal-currency/id/51354

It’s really frustrating that such a popular book has an edited section in it. I personally don’t have any problems with midichlorians (I get why Lucas felt the need to add them to the lore), but it annoys me that Lucas is trying to retcon film history. A lot of SW fans still insist that Lucas had the whole thing planned from the beginning because of Rinzler’s book. It even says so on the Wookieepedia article for midichlorians.

Post
#1270500
Topic
The Kenobi Movie
Time

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Wouldn’t this be easier?

On a TV budget it would be much too time consuming (and therefore more expensive) to CGI everything like ROTS did. You could argue that the same applies to most movies also.

I’d imagine a Kenobi series would be much easier and cheaper than the two series currently in production. Plenty of desert in California, and places like Mos Eisley is hardly the craziest locations in the SW universe to build as sets.

Post
#1270354
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

SilverWook said:

I may have missed something, but I don’t think Luke having to live with a mechanical hand was dealt with much in the post ESB storylines?

It being mechanical did (no pun intended) come in handy several times (like in Heir to the Empire), but I can’t remember him ever talking much about it beyond a little in Shadows of the Empire and a few issues immediately after ESB. I guess he just got used to it.

SilverWook said:

Maybe the original Westworld had something to do with it? 😃

Androids were very familiar to general audiences by 1977. The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman were often menaced by them, especially fembots. Maybe Lucas wanted to avoid androids for that reason?

With those two examples, as well as androids appearing in Star Trek a few times, the whole concept probably didn’t quite fit in with that whole “lived-in” universe vibe that Lucas was going for. Androids probably just seemed too futuristic.

It’s still a little bit weird that both Tardi & Guri exist in the same world as Artoo, Threepio, Gonk droids, and this clunky-looking thing.

SilverWook said:

I think emphasizing Viscount Tardi (thanks for the reminder!) being non-sentient might have been so the Rebels don’t look bad sending a droid on essentially a suicide mission, which is kind of silly since regular rebel droids often are often in the line of fire. There was another issue where Artoo was badly damaged, and Luke lost his temper at a Rebel tech who suggested it was more trouble than it was worth to fix him when parts for other droids were already in short supply.

Marvel was probably concerned about how the kids reading the comics would react to the idea of droid suicide mission, especially since Artoo & Threepio were clearly meant to be seen as sentient being. Plus, Leia, just like Luke, was always a lot more sympathetic towards droids.

Post
#1270348
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

SilverWook said:

Why don’t we see androids in the SW universe? Given Luke’s prosthetic hand, a life like android ought not to be a stretch. Is there a canonical reason?
I know at least one appeared in the old Marvel comic, which they went out of their way to say was non-sentient for some reason. And Valance the Hunter was able to conceal his half cybernetic face when it suited him.
That cyborgs were routinely discriminated against might be one factor against androids, but that could purely be a Marvel invention.

We know there are anti-droid sentiments held by some in the OT, but there are scenarios where an android might be useful on both sides of the conflict.

Guri from Shadows of the Empire was an android meant to mimic a human, and unlike Viscount Tardi (from the Marvel comic story you mentioned) she had emotions like other droids. She even got her own miniseries.

The reason androids so rarely appear might simply be because they feel a bit out of place in SW, despite the fact that we’ve seen Luke with a pretty real-looking robot hand. People kind of associate SW with that retro-look (like Threepio) so adding androids to the movies would probably feel a bit weird to some people. Luke’s hand I imagine was to avoid having to replace it with an effect all the time.

(As a side note; as a kid I always thought that Lobot was meant to be an android. I’m actually still a litle bit disappointed that he’s just a human with cybernetic implants.)

Post
#1269975
Topic
New Star Wars comics
Time

SilverWook said:

How do these constant renumbering schemes not drive collector’s and comic shop employees insane?

From what I’ve gathered it pretty much does.

Ironically it’s meant to make the new issues more “collectible” as they’re officially first issues. Though actual collectors mostly just seems annoyed by this gimmick. They usually print the real number on the cover underneath the new one anyway.

Some times they also do it to pseudo-reboot a series that’s not selling as well as hoped. Don’t know if this is the case here though.

Post
#1269841
Topic
Episode IX - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin

“A McGuffin is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or another motivator that the protagonist pursues. The MacGuffin’s importance to the plot is not the object itself, but rather its effect on the characters and their motivations.”

So the DS plans still count as a McGuffin.

Post
#1269360
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

Well, that was certainly unexpected. I love that Simonson cover, and I like how they’ve re-purposed Infantino art for the UK comic as a variant cover.

I wonder if this will be a kind of flashback story, since it says it’ll be a sequel to Crimson Fever, or if they’ve actually found a way to cram Valance, Jaxxon, Amaiza and Domina into a single story.

Post
#1265058
Topic
Star Wars Books. Good Recommendations?
Time

So while I was looking through a list of canon books I came across these “Chose Your Own Adventure” type of books; http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Choose_Your_Destiny

I’m actually quite surprised that no one thought of making this until now.

Has anyone actually seen or read any of these? I generally only keep myself up to speed on the actual novels (and I still mostly read Legends), but I used to read books like these when I was a kid, and now I’m kind of curious about how these work.

Post
#1263130
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

screams in the void said:

I get what you are saying , I use photographic resources from the movies in my own art but try to approach them with a painterly aesthetic and hone them to an illustrative quality , they aren’t one click solutions . I do agree about the new comics from the first year though and that is some of the stiffness I was talking about . If that is the approach , I would rather see something akin to Drew Struzan who traced photographic sources on a projector but understood how to draw and integrate the photographic sources to look natural in their environment and have texture .The examples in the uncanny valley article you posted look very unnatural . Part of that is that they are trying to combine two separate techniques , part pen and ink traditional comic art with digitally rendered photo realistic faces .

Yeah, Drew Struzan is a great example of how to do it right. And even Al Williamson used some photo-reference for his ESB and ROTJ adaptations, but artists like Larroca rely too much on photos and 3D models and it ends up looking lazy. Williamson used photos to guide his drawings, while Larroca basically cheats to save hismelf having to actually draw at all.

screams in the void said:

As for going back to simplicity , I find these new comics far more simplistic and lacking depth whereas the old series was chock full of complex stories and depth , issue 76 being a prime example …the genocide of an entire aquatic and sentient alien species , save a few members , who cut themselves off from the rest of the galaxy and isolate themselves where they were once free and open . Or issue 86 which deals with a stormtrooper who is also a survivor of Alderaan who Leia convinces to switch allegiances only to have him be shot in the back by his C.O. at the end and die . deep stuff man !

Oh, I didn’t mean to say that classic SW didn’t have depth to it, there was plenty of it. Stories like Day After the Death Star is a great example of giving Luke some character development, and there were plenty like it. But I still feel that they were “simpler” stories in that they were more focused on being adventurous before anything else. Old SW is not comparable to something like Soule’s Vader where the plot in its entirety is one long character exploration (and a pretty dark one at that). What I meant by “simple” is that you could pick up almost any issue of the old SW comics and not feel lost. Trying to do that with modern comics is just going to be confusing. I do however think the old comics focused a little bit more on character depth than character growth though. Not that they didn’t change at all, but you could always rely on the main characters behaving in a fairly predictable manner. Though you’re right that thus doesn’t alway apply to the new stuff, and I might have thought more about the EU as a whole in my previous post.

screams in the void said:

I can watch a marathon of all the Star Wars movies and slot the Marvel comics in and not be bothered by 40 years of lore and they still work for me . There may be a few continuity hiccups but they are far and few between and a lot less than reconciling 90’s EU with the current canon . I don’t put much stock in canon anyway . I kind of pick and choose from all of it that works for me personally . I still think prose captions should be a part of modern comics though . Comics for the past few decades have been trying too hard to be movies . If I want to watch the movies , I now have unlimited access to them and will pop in a blu ray , vhs or dvd .

It might be a generational thing? (Partially, at least.) A lot of people nowadays seem quite obsessed with continuity, and will outright dismiss or complain about any little detail that doesn’t fit properly. And considering how movies and TV series works now compared to 25+ years ago, its not that strange really. Most TV shows nowadays are continuous stories where each episode is a new chapter in one long plot, as opposed to before where each episode was (for the most part) it’s own story with a beginning, middle and end. There was of course continuity, but if you missed an episode it wasn’t usually a big deal.

I’m personally a bit of both worlds. I enjoy the EU, and the elaborate connectivity is part of the fun, but I couldn’t care less if a comic from 1979 contradicts something established in a comic or novel from 1999.

Post
#1263118
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

New Marvel SW has been quite a mixed bag I think. A lot of the miniseries have been quite good. Nothing spectacular, but there’s some good stories there. The new content had a somewhat rough start, and the ongoing series, with the exception of Charles Soule’s Darth Vader series, have been pretty mediocre story-wise, and, in my opinion, borderline amateurishly drawn. I personally find the “movie accurate” ones from the first Vader series to be the worst of the bunch. It genuinely annoys me as artist literally just traced photos from the movies and the result is this kind of uncanny feeling. This article explain what I’m referring to.

I’ve really enjoyed Soule’s Vader series. The art may not be realistic, but it is “Marvel” in the sense that its dynamic and colourful. The Han Solo miniseries is a good example of art that is both movie accurate and dynamic.

But I think the biggest problem, as I’ve mentioned before, is that modern SW is just a completely different thing than classic SW. It’s nearly impossible nowadays, after 10 movies and 40 years of lore to go back to the simplicity in the old comics. The world itself adheres to more rules now, and even the characters aren’t as flexible ad simple as they used to be.

In the end I think a lot boils down to what your personal perception of what SW is supposed to be like. What “Star Wars” refers to has expanded and changed quite a lot in the past 40+ years, and new content is always going to mostly conform to the latest “baseline”.