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ZkinandBonez

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5-May-2015
Last activity
8-Sep-2022
Posts
2,580

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Post
#1478362
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Of course sand doesn’t have to mean they’re on Tatooine, but I agree that it could be Force vision. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this whole “rematch” deal turns out to be a bait-and-switch for the sake of marketing. But, for all we know they might end up doing both; i.e. a Force vision early on in the series as a bit of a teaser and an actual duel on some other planet at the end which convinces Vader that Obi-Wan has been killed…or something to that effect.

Post
#1478200
Topic
Implied starting date of the Empire from OT dialogue
Time

G&G-Fan said:

It’s really simple: still 19 years just like in the prequels.

Vader is said to be instrumental in founding the Empire and killing the Jedi. Luke is 19. Whether Anakin and Vader are the same person or not, Anakin would need to be alive and on the light side 19 years ago so he can provide his part in Luke’s birth; BEFORE he’s “killed”/turns to the dark side. It’s kinda just simple math.

Unless Vader conceived of Luke while he was a Sith lord, but there’s OT dialogue that contradicts that (“…if Anakin had any offspring…”). Plus the sequence of events wouldn’t make any sense; I don’t see Luke ending up under the supervision of Obi-Wan if he was conceived while Vader is evil, he’d absolutely end up with the Empire.

It’s been a few years since I last commented on this thread, but if I remember correctly, there was some debate about how the formation of the Empire worked out pre-PT. There was some information to suggest that the Empire could have been formed long before Luke and Leia were born and that the Jedi fought against the Empire/Sith as an opposing faction until they were eventually wiped out. This would then make Anakin’s fall to the dark-side happen after the formation of the Empire, and not concurrently as it does in canon.

This is also how things more-or-less were in the 1st draft of SW, were there were several, though not many, Jedi still around fighting against the Empire and multiple Sith Lords. So it’s possible that this was still in Lucas’ mind during the making of the OT, though by the time of ROTJ this had probably changed to something a bit more like the final canon established in the PT.

Post
#1476656
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Sirius said:

I think that even the worst concept could be transformed into a good story. Just contract the right people to do the job. To say that Boba was born to be a side character just won’t work for me.

I didn’t mean to say that he has to always be a side character, I just think they chose a character that doesn’t easily fit into the role of a SW lead.

As I wrote earlier, I think they had the right idea plot-wise, but the execution was clunky.

Post
#1476605
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

theprequelsrule said:

They should have done a show about the best bounty hunter in the galaxy tracking down its most dangerous criminals. A no brainer IMO.

I see very little story in this concept, let alone a Star Wars story.

Granted, I wasn’t exactly thrilled by what we did end up with, but the core idea did at the very least follow the philosophy of the franchise. The real issue, IMO, was that Fett was always a background or side character, and giving him his own movie or TV show was always going to be difficult within the established SW framework.

Post
#1475699
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

ZkinandBonez said:

But I’d rather this show didn’t have any loose threads in the end.

I would agree about wanting it to be self-contained, if it hadn’t already had part of its main plot happen in a different show…

True, but at least BOBF was a spin-off show from The Mandalorian, and I’m getting the impression that we’re getting a Favreau mini-verse as it was, with Filoni’s cartoon strongly tied to it as well. So, yes, it’s clear that it won’t all be completely self-contained, which of course is pretty hard seeing as all SW is based on the OT anyhow, and in this case the PT as well, but I’m still hoping they’ll focus on past and present continuity and not leave things overly open-ended for future continuity.

Post
#1475595
Topic
<strong>The Mandalorian</strong> - a general discussion thread - * <em><strong>SPOILERS</strong></em> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

There are some leaked set photos and very interesting - and credible - rumours accompanying them. I’ll hide this in case anyone doesn’t want possible plot spoilers.

[Images removed by Moderator. See Rule 7.]

A very reliable source has backed up these leaked photos as real. Apparently these unknown red troopers will be fighting Din Djarin alongside Praetorian Guards from The Last Jedi. It makes sense that Snoke would be involved, related to the mysterious cloning plot they began in season 2.

I won’t name the source since evidence suggests they’ve done some really nasty things, but they’ve leaked things such as the Grand Inquisitor in the Obi-wan series, and the entire plot of The Rise of Skywalker, before.

I personally hope this doesn’t turn out to be true (the direct ST reference that is) as I’d rather have this series stick to a self-contained-ish Imperial Remnant plot, and of course Mandalorian culture, without dabbling to much in ST arcs, let alone anything so blatant. Since we’re getting Thrawn in the future, I’d much rather have that be the main focus of this and the Ahsoka series, and whatever else they might add down the line (such as the BOBF announcement being a surprise within another show). Of course they could downplay it and leave it a “mystery” that only knowledge of the new movies can help answer, or something like that. But I’d rather this show didn’t have any loose threads in the end.

Direct reference to the leaked photos:

The helmets do remind me a bit of the Imperial Mandalorians we saw in Rebels, so it could be that Mandalorians that are still loyal to the Empire could appear in season 3. This could be really interesting seeing as they’re clearly building up to a Din, or at least someone else through him, becoming the new Mandalore with the Darksaber, not to mention that it’d stir up a lot of emotions in the main characters for obvious reasons.

Post
#1475493
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

So a lot of people online have been pointing out that Obi-Wan’s binoculars doesn’t have a lens for him to actually look through.

I suppose those little rivets are supposed to be the lenses? This is hardly important, and it’s not like SW technology tends to make much sense, but I thought it was kinda funny.

(BTW, I have no idea who made this image, I just googled Obi-Wan teaser + binoculars and this showed up.)

Post
#1475323
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

jedi_bendu said:

rocknroll41 said:

Future seasons? This is already confirmed to be a one-season thing.

I believe that’s what he meant - they won’t soften anything for future seasons since there won’t be any.

Exactly.

Now obviously we won’t see the death of any characters that we have seen die in other movies/series, but seeing as there will be only one season of this I’m hoping that this means we’ll get something a bit like Rogue One where we’ll actually see some meaningful deaths.

I suppose we could get some crossover with Andor though, seeing as they’re set in roughly the same time. I think it’s a given that we’ll see some rebels in this series, though at this point in canon there’s not much of an organized alliance yet. Maybe we’ll see Obi-Wan help spark the rebellion alongside Bail, similar to what we saw in Rebels only with a separate rebel cell before they all came together.

My only real complaint about the trailer, not counting some nitpicks with the colour grading (I’ve gotten used to that) and such, is the look of the Grand Inquisitor. It’s not a huge deal, but it is somewhat jarring.

Post
#1475250
Topic
The Kenobi <s>Movie</s> Show (Spoilers)
Time

Mocata said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It looks a lot darker than Mando and BOBF, which is something that I’m very on board with.

Your eyes can deceive you, don’t trust them.

Considering the story they’re telling I don’t even see how it can be too light-hearted in tone or style similar to what BOBF ended up becoming, and I’ll be perfectly happy it ends up being similar to Mando. And of course without Grogu to “cute-ify” scenes I suspect it’ll be more Rogue One like in style. I’m not exactly expecting grim-dark or anything like that, but seeing as it’s a miniseries I trust that it won’t try to overly soften things for the sake of future seasons.

Post
#1475244
Topic
The Beyond the OT Trailers/Promos Thread (YouTube/Vimeo, etc. finds)
Time

Obi-Wan Kenobi - 2022 Disney+ Teaser Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWTfhyvzTx0 - from the official Star Wars YouTube channel (1:45 mins long)

The blurb:
“The story begins 10 years after the dramatic events of “Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith” where Obi-Wan Kenobi faced his greatest defeat—the downfall and corruption of his best friend and Jedi apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, who turned to the dark side as evil Sith Lord Darth Vader.”

Post
#1474928
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

timdiggerm said:

The question is: Are the ways we interact with and view people influenced by the ways we think about our imaginary worlds?

If someone watches SW and/or LOTR and decides to treat someone badly because they see them as orcs or trandoshans, then I’d say the issue is with them and not the fiction. Orcs represent the cruelty inherent within everybody, not some generic “other”, hence why they were once elves, showing that even the most virtuous and civilised people are corruptible. If someone look at orcs and see a real-life group of people then that’s a reflection on them, not Tolkien or Peter Jackson. The same goes for SW.

That’s not to say that fiction hasn’t been used like this before, of course it has, and that’s obviously a bad thing, but that’s hardly what we are talking about here.

If anything I think deconstruction has only made these things worse, since so many people nowadays always look for these types of negative real-life parallels, and more often than not, make them up or project their own biases into fiction when they can’t find any or they miss the point.

Here’s a quote from my Star Wars is Surrealism essay from last year:

ZkinandBonez said:

PART 4B: EXTERNALISING YOUR INNER SLIMY PIECE OF WORM-RIDDEN FILTH

Now let’s move on to aliens that have more personality, like Jabba the Hutt. Like all beings in the Star Wars universe, if you look up the Hutts on Wookieepedia you’ll get an extensive explanation of their society, their biology, how they reproduce (they’re hermaphroditic by the way), etc. But, if we see Jabba through the lens of abstract film making, what is he really? Well, Lucas wanted a fat and slimy gangster, like Marlon Brando in The Godfather or Sydney Greenstreet in The Maltese Falcon, but of course, in the form of a monster, or rather an “alien” in this case. Monsters have always been representations of real life concepts; like how European dragons have always been representations of greed; hording gold in their caves for no practical purpose other than mythological symbolism. Jabba is no different. He is greed and gluttony brought to life in the form of a big, fat, slimy slug; the abstract made literal. It is a type of storytelling that has made sense to every single child watching the film, but that unfortunately doesn’t always click with us critical-thinking adults.

Jabba’s henchmen are no different. They are meant to be vile criminals working for a mob boss, so their ugliness has been brought to the surface by making them literal monsters; fangs, claws, scales, snouts and all.

Post
#1474914
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Knight of Kalee said:

I’m on the team that favors nuanced takes on the classic Star Wars elements. IG-11 in The Mandalorian should by all accounts just been a cold, ruthless and effective bounty droid based on what we know about IG-88, but they took the time to deconstruct the archetype and deliver an engaging arc for him tale while delving into topics such as the nature vs nurture debate.

I’m not saying SW can’t have nuance to it, I’m just saying that if every creature gets deconstructed there won’t be much SW left.

F.ex. Most people don’t complain about a lack of depth in the orcs in LOTR, and the ones who do are usually given a quick rundown of what they represent and why a mythic fantasy doesn’t need this kind of overanalysis. SW on the other hand, presumavly due to it’s Sci-Fi aesthetic rarely seens to get the same response.

You can give depth to hobbits, dwarves, elfs, heck even the talking trees gets a little bit of nuance, but Sauron, like Palpatine in SW, is a symbol of pure evil, and should never be treated as anything else. Saruman and Vader were both corrupted by evil, they were written to represent this relatable and nuanced human behaviour, that’s their purpose in their respective stories, while their masters represents that corruptible power, i.e. something abstract.

So nuance and depth in SW is great if it serves a narrative purpose and when it is written by somone who understands the mythic structure that holds it all together.

The philosophy of deconstructionism underminds the very nature of SW, as it does all myths and fairytales. All fiction, even fantasy, should, and usually do have nuance to it, but deconstruction tends to unravel it through overanalysis. I understand the purpose of deconstructionism in the real world and even for fiction about the real world, but I think it’s a poor match for fantasy.

Post
#1474867
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

jedi_bendu said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SW is not Star Trek so I can do without arbitrary depth and nuance added to creatures that were originally made to serve as simple monsters or caricatures of life and history.

I think it’s a very fundamentally bad idea to vilify an entire species, no matter what universe you’re writing for.

Considering we’re talking about fictional fantasy creatures I don’t see the problem. None of them a real individuals, there’s no history, culture, etc. Most of the “scary” creatures we’ve seen in live-action SW don’t represent any real people who can be misrepresented.

F.ex. Bossk was simply a monstrous-looking lizard bounty hunter. His purpose was to be a villain in a scene of villains. That’s it. Other Trandoshans in SW have stayed true to the original idea and are all hunters of some kind that are always (at least in movies and TV series) depicted as cold-blooded. There’s no real Trandoshans to be demonized, they’re just cruel lizard-monsters that serve a narrative purpose.

The Tusken Raiders on the other hand have real-life parallels, and therefore it made sense to give them more depth in BOBF and treat them as if they were a real people. Though primarily this also served a narrative function. There’s obviously nothing wrong with some character depth in SW, but doing it for the sake of doing it, or to emulate the more naturalistic narratives of more hard Sci-Fi is simply missing the point.

Star Wars is a fairy tale, a “myth for the space age” as Lucas once put it, and therefore we get many archetypal monsters in the guise as “aliens” (an SF concept). A dragon who hordes gold in a cave is simply a mythic symbol for greed, it follows no evolutionary pattern, it has no real psychology to speak of, it’s a symbol, a universal abstraction. These are the ideas that Lucas was going for when making SW, and overanalyzing the Trandoshans, the Klatooinians, or the Hutts, I feel is doing disservice to both Lucas and their function within the SW universe.

Post
#1474840
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

Buzz Lightyear said:

Also, speaking of Tuskens, does anyone else really enjoy how these Disney+ shows have been developing and humanizing various mook aliens from the older movies? What aliens do you suppose could be next? Will we see some Hutts who aren’t crime lords at some point? Will we get to see some Ortolans who aren’t just playing drums all day? Maybe an Ewok who pulls a Star-Lord and leaves behind his terrestrial bound brethren to go have a bunch of adventures in space?

This is actually something that I personally hope they don’t overdo or start to rely on. As I explained in my pseudo-essay from last year, the OT treated most aliens as archetypes and I don’t want them to deviate too much from this. I don’t mind them doing this with the Tusken’s since there was always some nuance with them in Lucas’ films and they were always meant to be the natives on a planet with human colonists, so what BOBF did sense narrative-wise and stays true to the archetypes that they were. However, making the Rancor into a an emotionally complex pet instead of simply a ferocious monster was IMO not necessary, but it was handled well in that it helped tell Fett’s story so I don’t mind it in this case.

I will say this, I do not want to see good Hutts. That seems to go against what the Hutts were meant to be in the SW universe. I much prefer what Favreau did with the he Klatooinian raiders in the Mando episode “Sanctuary” or the Quarren pirates in “The Heiress.” SW is not Star Trek so I can do without arbitrary depth and nuance added to creatures that were originally made to serve as simple monsters or caricatures of life and history.

Post
#1474677
Topic
<strong>The Book Of Boba Fett</strong> (live action series) - a general discussion thread - * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

J0E said:

I don’t really mind spoilers, I’ve been lurking around this thread for a while. Does it pick up? I’m kinda not wanting to watch after episode 2. It’s starting on TNG season 1 shaky ground. I really like Mando, even if Season 2 had a few too many cameos that detracted from Mando and the kid. Should I just watch the episodes with Mando? Seeing a lot of mixed reactions.

Does it pick up? Yes and no. Episode 2 is really good, then it slows down until Mando shows up in ep. 5.

You could watch just episode 5 and 6 without causing any big confusion going into The Mandalorian season 3, though you would technically miss out on some minor details.

Post
#1472401
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

It’s a bit ironic really, The Mandalorian had a dull colour palette but really strong cinematography, while BOBF had strong colours but featured mostly bland cinematography. Having said that though, The Mandalorian is quite mild compared to other TV shows, so it never bothered me much, and it even good a bit better in season 2.

Desaturated colours seem to be the latest teal & orange cliché in colour grading, and it’s likely a byproduct of how most things are shot digitally nowadays. Though the ST didn’t really click with me story-wise I can at least say that the cinematography and colours was a breath of fresh air.