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ZkinandBonez

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Join date
5-May-2015
Last activity
18-Nov-2019
Posts
1,660

Post History

Post
#1306179
Topic
Zahn's Other SW Books (was: Survivor's Quest vs Outbound Flight)
Time

LexX said:

How’s the new Thrawn trilogy, anybody here read it? Is it PT/ST influenced, how’s the writing etc.? Would you recommend them?

The first one was great. The writing is some of Zahn’s best. Governor Pryce from SW Rebels is in it, but it doesn’t matter if you’ve seen the series or not and her arc works well on its own. A fair amount of PT stuff in it as it takes place between ROTS and ANH, but mostly just in reference to droids and certain vehicles, etc. The book even reused large parts of Thrawn’s Legends origin story.

Second one was fun for the most part, but was very limited by its position between two Rebels episodes. Half of it takes place during the Clone Wars where Thrawn teams up with Anakin, and later Padme. The “present day” plot line is a Vader/Thrawn team up.

Third one was IMO just dull. Some fun parts with the Chiss, but overall it just felt like filler and it was again limited by its placement between two Rebels episodes.

I’d say definetely read the first one, but the other two are slippage, though the Vader/Thrawn team up has its fun moments.

Post
#1306176
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc... Star Wars finds
Time

screams in the void said:

this guy mentions the forums here …is he a member here ?..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6wNw_uRu4

I don’t remember if he was ever a member or not, but he was involved with the making of Adywan’s edits of the OT I think (been a while since I saw the video where he talked about it).

Here’s the video:
https://youtu.be/uK2R-wC8BVk

Post
#1306035
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

Mark Hamill interview on set of Star Wars (1976)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-XGbzcGx7s&t

Bit of a rarity this one as the first film didn’t really have much promotion until after it started making money on in the box office, so it’s interesting to see an interview on the DS set. We’re so used to ESB and ROTJ interviews done during the production, but I can’t recall having ever seen the same done for ANH.

Does anyone know where this is from? Or if the whole thing has been posted somewhere?

Post
#1305694
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

It’s as if buddhist monks start worshipping their staffs or if Knights Templar think their swords are relics. Just because they use weapons, doesn’t mean their weapons have to be mystical or holy objects.

Jedi worship life and the force, not lightsabers.

No one worships their lightsabers in the new canon, they just added a mystical element to them which is almost entirely focused on the construction ritual.

Post
#1305434
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

How Star Wars was saved in the edit:
https://youtu.be/zEHRNS-Scrs - from the RocketJump Film School YouTube channel (2017 video essay - 18 minutes).

“A video essay exploring how Star Wars’ editors recut and rearranged Star Wars: A New Hope to create the cinematic classic it became”

Written by David Welch.
Narrated and edited by Joey Scoma.

Not to nitpick, but I’d think video essays might be a different category from documentaries? Your thread of course.

The thread title also includes “making ofs” and “promos”, and there’s been interviews added as well. Plus, I only wrote “video essay” because that’s what they called it. It’s basically a short documentary, and a really interesting one at that, so I felt it was worth sharing here.

As I said I will of course defer to you. I haven’t seen the video in question but I tend to think of a ‘video essay’ as an analysis of a work, rather than a behind the scenes documentary. But maybe I should watch the video before I critique.

Yeah, that’s what I’d generally associate with the word as well, and the video is partially an analysis, though I’d say it’s 80% a documentary about how ANH was re-edited after Lucas screened the rough cut to several filmmaker friends; incl. Spielberg and Brian De Palma, the latter of which was not particularly impressed (to put it mildly).

Post
#1305244
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

How Star Wars was saved in the edit:
https://youtu.be/zEHRNS-Scrs - from the RocketJump Film School YouTube channel (2017 video essay - 18 minutes).

“A video essay exploring how Star Wars’ editors recut and rearranged Star Wars: A New Hope to create the cinematic classic it became”

Written by David Welch.
Narrated and edited by Joey Scoma.

Not to nitpick, but I’d think video essays might be a different category from documentaries? Your thread of course.

The thread title also includes “making ofs” and “promos”, and there’s been interviews added as well. Plus, I only wrote “video essay” because that’s what they called it. It’s basically a short documentary, and a really interesting one at that, so I felt it was worth sharing here.

Post
#1305224
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

How Star Wars was saved in the edit:
https://youtu.be/zEHRNS-Scrs - from the RocketJump Film School YouTube channel (2017 - 18 minutes).

“A video essay exploring how Star Wars’ editors recut and rearranged Star Wars: A New Hope to create the cinematic classic it became”

Written by David Welch.
Narrated and edited by Joey Scoma.

Post
#1305068
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

ATMachine said:

ZkinandBonez said:

theprequelsrule said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85MK2GDkoxo

I have to admit, I like the original “Silver” Death Star concept quite a bit.

Great find. Do you know what DVD set these are from? I remember having seen them before but I can’t remember where exactly.

(Slight nitpick, but could you please add the title of the video, or some kind of description, so that it’s not just a link?)

They’re on the SW Saga Blu-ray set.

That’s weird as I’ve never watched the blu-ray bonus features. I guess I must have seen a few of those clips on YouTube at some point and forgotten about it.

I also like how the Holiday Special cartoon segment is just slapped in the middle of all the BTS stuff. I didn’t know that it had received an official release of any kind.

Post
#1304940
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

SP FX: Special Effects - The Empire Strikes Back:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsgTd-1ZYuw&t

“Hosted by Mark Hamill. Originally aired on CBS on September 22, 1980. The special was written by Richard Schickel and directed by Robert Guenette, who had both previously worked on the 1977 special The Making of Star Wars…as told by C-3PO & R2-D2

IMDB link & Wikipedia link

Post
#1304933
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

canofhumdingers said:

Less a thought and more of a question: I was skimming through the phantom menace on Disney+. It’s been at least 15 years since I’ve watched the movie but I swear there was a scene where one of Darth Maul’s probes on Tatooine is flying behind Qui-gon who quickly spins around and slices it in half with his lightsaber. But I don’t see it in the film. Am I missing something?

It was a deleted scene that they decided to finish for the DVD release in 2001, but as far as I know it was never actually added to the film like the extended pod-race scene was.

Here’s the scene btw; https://youtu.be/t2_R-bWR3v8?t=768

Post
#1304918
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

oojason said:

Horizon - How to Film the Impossible’:-

https://vimeo.com/54710740 - at the Jrmtrinquet vimeo channel. (A 1985 documentary - 50 mins)
 

Honestly one of these best effects-focused documentaries I’ve seen. I feel like a lot of similar documentaries tend to simplify things to much, but here they really take you through the process.

The remastered version by Harmy is really great, especially since most online versions tend to vary greatly in quality and never seem to stay long either before Horizon takes it down;
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hQ0GQjmIWDPOv0Xs3rJ2SgzOLDVQoiP2gPeHBNuqZto/edit

Post
#1304916
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

theprequelsrule said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85MK2GDkoxo

I have to admit, I like the original “Silver” Death Star concept quite a bit.

Great find. Do you know what DVD set these are from? I remember having seen them before but I can’t remember where exactly.

(Slight nitpick, but could you please add the title of the video, or some kind of description, so that it’s not just a link?)

Post
#1304592
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

DrDre said:

I think the entire concept of artistic expression as you define it is meaningless, because by that definition any form of expression is art, hence nothing is art. It’s like those schools, where a student can’t fail, and everyone gets a passing grade. Anyone calls themselves an artist these days, effectively putting themselves in the leagues of a Mozart, Beethoven, Leonardo DaVinci, Stanley Kubrick, Oscar Wilde, etc, etc. It’s preposterous in my view. Making a painting doesn’t automatically make you an artist in my book, just like being able to count to ten doesn’t make you a Math Professor.

Don’t know what else to say. The question isn’t Art or Not Art. it’s Good Art or Bad Art.

Beethoven and The Prodigy are both musical artists. Daniel Johnston and Mozart. The Chainsmokers and Vivaldi. Skrillex and Johnny Cash. The entire concept of artistic expression as I defined it is how it’s defined. That doesn’t make it meaningless. Art has meaning, even the crappiest art. And that’s where your argument about it being like a “crappy school where nobody can fail” falls apart, because being Crappy Art is BAD. Yes, you tried to express yourself via artistic intent, and you did it terribly. That’s not a good thing. You made bad art and it reflects poorly on you. “Being an artist” doesn’t shield you from having made crappy art. It didn’t protect Mapplethorpe. Or John Waters.

That’s honestly enough. Trying to levy the charge that The Force Awakens isn’t really art AT ALL just doesn’t make any sense, and is a pretty huge overreaction, as is the decision to try and disqualify its status AS art in response. It’s obviously art. It’s okay if you don’t like it and think that it’s bad. You don’t have to go as far as you do. It’s unneccessary to make the criticisms you’re making.

Exactly. The problem with trying to disqualify something as art is that there’s no clear definition. If you were to separate things into proper art and not art then logically there’d be works that straddle that line. But how would you decide when it crosses over that line into either art or not art? It’s too vague and subjective. Quality obviously has similar issues, but then you can start making clearer arguments, like the difference between the quality of the craftmanship and originality between, f.ex. a Pollock and a Dahli painting. Or the difference in originality between ANH and TFA.

Post
#1304446
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

Broom Kid said:

DrDre said:
I agree they are better made in some respects. However, the main driving force behind these films is not artistry.

Again, I think it’s really unfair and unrealistic of you to say this. Borderline disingenuous, really. Especially considering many of the arguments you’re currently leveraging against this version of Star Wars were leveraged against it in the '80s, '90s, and '00s. I fundamentally disagree with any attempt to somehow strip the legitimate, and easily observable intent to create art from the finished films, or to attempt to redefine their existence AS art based on a romanticized notion of what George Lucas is, was, and would have done had he not decided to sell everything. George Lucas is not an island, and his “vision” is not as all encompassing or unfiltered as you consistently describe it to be. The work stands for itself, and your criticisms of the work are primarily rooted in a somewhat cruel appraisal of its artistic intent first and foremost, one that I don’t think stands up to scrutiny at all.

I apologize for dragging this out as long as I did, and I thank you for being very civil and patient with me. Obviously we’re not going to agree, but hopefully some measure of understanding (not agreement, of course, but the two aren’t synonymous anyway) was reached.

Well, I don’t see why any and all forms of corporately driven expression should be considered art, just because a group of people put a lot of effort, work, and craft into it. A lot of people work hard, and are creative in developing products, doing research, motivating people, etc, etc. Yet, these people are not considered artists. However, if the product you’re working on is a movie, you’re automatically labeled an ARTIST with a capital A. I reject that notion.

So by that logic Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel can’t be considered art because it was comissioned by the church? Some of history’s most famous artwork could be considered “commercial” or “corporate” as they were partially, or completely, dictated and funded by one or more patrons. Even art house films exist to make money. Although I don’t dismiss auteur theory, I do think it’s highly overrated since even the smallest, most independent films are a collaborative and commercial venture.

Post
#1304321
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

The Making of Star Wars …as told by C-3PO and R2-D2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSuDjjlIPak&list=PLYn2a0e2FVIKni_wHXR5CJYBnnnYH7mIB&index=2&t=0s

Originally aired on September 16, 1977, on ABC.

“This TV special, the first ever Star Wars documentary, was hosted by C-3PO and R2-D2 and narrated by William Conrad, with appearances by George Lucas, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford.”

I’ve always found this one to be really charming. It’s kind of silly and not as “in-depth” as other SW documentaries, but considering it was made primarily for children it managed to cover a lot of ground.

Post
#1304319
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

oojason said:

 
The Galaxy Britain Built: Droids Darth, Vader and Lightsabers’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMJ7vXnyyRA - at the ‘Ceejay Julien’ youtube channel. (A documentary from 2017)
 

That was great. It still surprises me to hear all of these stories that I’ve never heard before, like the part about putting Hamill, Ford & Fisher at the bottom of the cast list to please Equity in the UK. I’m pretty sure there’s no other movie in the history of film where people know so much about the production, yet new details and anecdotes like that keep popping up.

Post
#1304256
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

canofhumdingers said:

@ZkinandBonez

What was the old EU “more sci-fi” explanation of why the bad guys had red blades?

Quite simply that since the Jedi “owned” the only known planet (or maybe there was a few of them, I only remember Ilum) that had lightsaber-crystals the Sith were forced to make synthetic crystals, which turned out red.

There was more to it than that, but that’s the basic gist of it as far as I can remember. Other than the artificial red ones, the other colours were just natural in the crystals and the Jedi assigned them to specific classes of Jedi as a symbolic gesture. Since Luke’s Jedi Academy didn’t follow those rules, they just used the colours randomly or depending on availability (as they were quite rare at that point).

Mocata said:

But that lends the weapon importance, which I kinda hate.

Could you elaborate on that? I don’t really follow what you mean, weren’t lightsabers always meant to be rare and special?

Post
#1304249
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

Duracell, do you mean you were hoping Kylo might’ve been pretending to be bad, like he was undercover or something?

Yeah, I think the term “bleeding” has been a gripe for some people regarding the new lore surrounding Kyber crystals, but I just understand it as a turn of phrase. If you just think of bleeding as “corrupting” a crystal rather than it literally bleeding, it makes more sense.

I thought the new canon for kyber crystals were quite celever and perfectly understood the difference between the light side and the dark side. Basically the jedi need to connect with the force, hence they “connect” or “bond” with the crystal. The sith are all about using the force for their own selfish need so they have to corrupt the crystal by “breaking” it to their will. The term “bleed” was just an obvious metaphor since the crystal turns red. I mean at this point its well established (regardless of what you think of it) that the sith have red lightsabers, so it made sense for them to add a canonical explanation as to why the colour it only applied to the bad guys. The old EU explanation was fine, but perhaps a bit too sci-fi like, and I think the new EU wanted to distance themselves somewhat from some of the less popular PT concepts and make it more “spiritual” and symbolic.

Post
#1304189
Topic
YouTube/Vimeo/etc. finds for Original Trilogy <strong>documentaries, making-ofs, promos</strong>, etc.
Time

oojason said:

^ A great idea for a thread 😃

 

BBC’s The Risk Business (Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back)’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sdB4zedK4w - from the ‘Adywan revisited’ youtube channel. (With props to Babyhum)
 

A little bit of info on the documentary can be found at http://www.starwarsarchives.com/the-risk-business
 

Great. That’s precisely the type of video I hoped to see on this thread as you’d never see stuff like this on any official home video release.

Its always fascinating to see how people perceived SW films before they were released. The idea that ESB might not be a success seems so silly now, but that would have been a logical concern back in the day. As a side note; its also interesting to see how little has changed in the film industry, having studied filmmaking in the UK I get the impression that they still struggle with similar problems today.


Walter Cronkite’s “Universe” Visits ILM 1980:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiee-MhPEWg - from TheStarWarsTrilogy.com’s YouTube channel.

More info: https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/2013/07/21/walter-cronkite-s-universe-visits-ilm/

Post
#1304129
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

ATMachine said:

Now you’ve got me started on lightsaber history!

Only one lightsaber color is mentioned in the 1974 rough draft – that of protagonist Annikin Starkiller – and it’s red.

Ralph McQuarrie’s production paintings for the 1975 second draft introduce the idea of multiple colored lightsabers. But these are still a bit unusual: in his painting of Darth Vader dueling Luke Starkiller’s brother Deak, Vader’s saber is blue and Deak’s is golden. Meanwhile, lightsaber-wielding stormtroopers have white lightsabers to match their white armor.

George Lucas initially tried to achieve the lightsaber effects in-camera by using special spinning rods (powered by hidden electric cables) with a luminescent coating. When a light was shone on them, they would appear to glow. This method only allowed for one color to be used on all lightsaber blades in the same shot. Tests on the Blu-ray show that red and blue were considered, but Lucas ultimately opted for white lightsabers across the board.

A few of Ralph McQuarrie’s later publicity paintings for SW 1977 adopt this design – for instance, his early art for the novelization cover, which is a new version of his painting of the Deak/Vader duel.

When the in-camera effects proved unsatisfactory, Lucas decided to use rotoscoping to enhance the effect. This allowed for McQuarrie-style individually colored blades to be introduced.

Evidently the initial notion was red = good and blue = evil, matching up with the blue saber color McQuarrie gave Vader, as well as Annikin’s lightsaber color in the rough draft. But as we now know, Paul Hirsch convinced Lucas to flip the colors. (As Michael Kaminski has also noted, the 1977 film’s lightsaber color scheme matches the color motifs of swords in Lord of the Rings.)

Thanks, lots of new details there I hadn’t heard before.

Just as a side-note though, I guess it’s debatable whether Vader’s lightsaber is blue or just white on a blue background in the Deak vs Vader painting.

It’s also interesting how the lightsaber has over the past 40+ years gotten more and more “special” while they started as simple futuristic weapons. They went from common weapon to the unique weapon of the Jedi and Sith. Then the colours became significant. And now in the new canon even the crystals inside have gone from simple rocks to living crystals with force-related powers.

Post
#1304097
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Z6PO said:

All lightsabers were originally white because they tried to make them as in-camera effects, using highly reflective tape on rotating rods! They abandoned it when they realized the effect wasn’t very satisfying and because the rotating rods would often break.

Well, yes, but I meant in the early scripts. I know the comic adaptation of the first draft made all the lightsabers red, but I don’t know if that’s based on the script or not. I figured MaQuarrie made them white as they by the time of the second draft had probably started to discuss how the effect would be made, and white was the easiest solution (due to the reflective tape, etc. that you mentioned.)