Wexter

Mocata said:

Wexter said:

DominicCobb said:

Wexter said:

The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.

I strongly disagree. JJ’s statements about the force show he had the same reveal in mind. Rey’s parents only matter in terms of it matters to Rey. No one in TFA says her parents are important besides her, in fact if anything they say the opposite.

I’m talking about her Force vision, Anakin’s lightsaber calling to her and Ben Kenobi’s voice speaking to her. They have absolutely no idea what this meant when they set this up and it will probably amount to nothing at all. Maybe some clever writer will deal with that in a comic book or something.

Well the Force was doing that, not her magic space dad

Yeah, I get it. The Force got her in possession of a prop from the OT, had Obi-Wan send a cryptic message to her and reminded her of her parents who left her on Jakku. That silly Force doing funny stuff like this all the time!

DominicCobb said:

Wexter said:

The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.

I strongly disagree. JJ’s statements about the force show he had the same reveal in mind. Rey’s parents only matter in terms of it matters to Rey. No one in TFA says her parents are important besides her, in fact if anything they say the opposite.

I’m talking about her Force vision, Anakin’s lightsaber calling to her and Ben Kenobi’s voice speaking to her. They have absolutely no idea what this meant when they set this up and it will probably amount to nothing at all. Maybe some clever writer will deal with that in a comic book or something.

Lot of people seem to take issue with the seemingly new “everyone can learn the ways of the Force” angle. I don’t get that. I think it is perfectly in line with the original Star Wars. Luke wanted to become a Jedi, because his father was one. As far as the audiences knew back then, even Han could master the Jedi ways if he cared to. Luke’s uniqueness only became a thing when the prequels established his father as an actual space Jesus.

The problem is that the first part of this new story strongly hints, that Rey’s parentage actually matters and then suddenly this other guy takes over the story and just goes “yeah, we’re not doing any of that”.

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

I wonder what are y’all smoking seeing bold and expectation-defying choices in the story. I can only think of the Force projection thing (which I quite liked). Other than that it seems incredibly safe to me.

Um, killing Snoke halfway through the trilogy is safe?

Ok.

Lifting a scene from the end of ROTJ and putting it in the middle of TESB sure is strange, just not my idea of brave. And not my idea of clever either, since Snoke was obviously set up to actually matter in the overall story.

I wonder what are y’all smoking seeing bold and expectation-defying choices in the story. I can only think of the Force projection thing (which I quite liked). Other than that it seems incredibly safe to me.

I say go see it. Your attitude towards TFA shouldn’t really be a factor here, as pretty much everybody here feels differently about these new movies (and the old ones as well). Unless you can’t afford the ticket or the time, you shouldn’t miss out on seeing this film on the big screen and making up your own mind about it.

Having said all that, even though I personally enjoyed TFA despite its MANY flaws, after TLJ I’m just not really interested in seeing episode 9 (or that Solo movie) in theatres or elsewhere. 😃

dahmage said:

vague lists can tie practically anything together. this is so 2015/2016…

I’d say these points are pretty specific, but of course that is up to anybody to decide.

Please, feel free to include any TLJ plot points that my outline is missing.

TV’s Frink said:

Wexter said:

MalàStrana said:

JJ is just a (talented ?) fan boy who wants to repeat things we already know. I prefer a bad yet daring movie (VIII) to a more or less good but safe and unsurprising one (VII)

How exactly is a film that lazily retells the story of TESB virtually beat by beat (except for one slight detour to the finale of ROTJ) a “daring movie”?

I don’t know because I haven’t seen that movie yet.

TLJ was very good though.

I hate to quote myself, but I’ll leave this here:

Wexter said:

• A group of Rebels is evacuating from their hidden base after being discovered by the Empire. They are not able to flee through the hyperspace because of technical difficulties.
• A group of characters sets out to meet a scoundrel, who might be able to help them out. However, he turns them in to the Empire.
• The protagonist from the last movie meets an exiled Jedi Master. After some hesitation the master agrees to teach her about the Force. She then encounters a reflection of herself in a dark cave and leaves before the training is complete.
• The protagonist believes there is still good in the villain, so she turns herself over to him. He brings her to his master who reveals he was behind it all. He is about to kill the protagonist, but the villain turns on him and kills him.
• The villain then invites the protagonist to help him bring new order to the galaxy, but the protagonist escapes.
• Then there’s a battle with speeders and AT-ATs.
• And the Jedi Master becomes one with the Force after delivering his final lesson.

What did I miss?

MalàStrana said:

JJ is just a (talented ?) fan boy who wants to repeat things we already know. I prefer a bad yet daring movie (VIII) to a more or less good but safe and unsurprising one (VII)

How exactly is a film that lazily retells the story of TESB virtually beat by beat (except for one slight detour to the finale of ROTJ) a “daring movie”?

I don’t see how they could possibly have a non-Lando character in there if they didn’t go to that casino planet…

Windexed said:

Wexter said:

I actually thought the Force projection thing was alright. That was I think the only time this movie ventured somewhat successfully out of its own comfort zone. Sure, it’s not the most outrageous thing you could think of, but at least it’s something we haven’t seen in a Star Wars movie before.

Except every single person in the galaxy for the past 8 films, including extremely powerful Jedi and Sith characters, all had to use the holographic projection communication system. But what did the know anyway when we have force FaceTime.

I didn’t get the impression that Force users could just do this kind of thing casually. It probably cost Luke his life. This really doesn’t bother me too much, as there are much worse things to nitpick.

I actually thought the Force projection thing was alright. That was I think the only time this movie ventured somewhat successfully out of its own comfort zone. Sure, it’s not the most outrageous thing you could think of, but at least it’s something we haven’t seen in a Star Wars movie before.

If she is really no one, then her force vision in TFA has been a particularly dishonest red herring.

I mean TLJ did bring some new motives to the franchise. These are the ones I can think of:

• Riding on space horses.
• BB-8 piloting an AT-ST.
• Phone pranks.
• Carrie Fisher flying through space.
• Poe starting an outright mutiny.
• A casino with space-jazz music.
• Force literature.
• Milking a dinosaur.

All very bold and creative choices. Also glad they did that “infiltrating an imperial base under a disguise” thing. Haven’t seen that one in like a year.

I think they almost ran out of the OT plot points to recycle. I predict the Episode 9 to start borrowing from the prequels.

I fail to see what is supposed to be so “different” about this movie.

The way I see it, it goes like this:

• A group of Rebels is evacuating from their hidden base after being discovered by the Empire. They are not able to flee through the hyperspace because of technical difficulties.
• A group of characters sets out to meet a scoundrel, who might be able to help them out. However, he turns them in to the Empire.
• The protagonist from the last movie meets an exiled Jedi Master. After some hesitation the master agrees to teach her about the Force. She then encounters a reflection of herself in a dark cave and leaves before the training is complete.
• The protagonist believes there is still good in the villain, so she turns herself over to him. He brings her to his master who reveals he was behind it all. He is about to kill the protagonist, but the villain turns on him and kills him.
• The villain then invites the protagonist to help him bring new order to the galaxy, but the protagonist escapes.
• Then there’s a battle with speeders and AT-ATs.
• And the Jedi Master becomes one with the Force after delivering his final lesson.

My problem is that I think TESB and ROTJ did all of the above. It was admittedly a bit less flashy than this time around, but it was still more enjoyable.

m_s0 said:

Wexter said:

m_s0 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

m_s0 said:

joefavs said:

Here’s a pretty good article about the film: https://www.avclub.com/part-kurosawa-part-wile-e-coyote-the-last-jedi-boldl-1821291545

RE: Ackbar vs. Holdo, the author of this piece has a good point in a response to a comment:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky said:

Lotta folks seem to think that her role should have gone to good ol’ Admiral Ackbar, but I get Johnson’s intention: Everybody likes Ackbar, and the audience needs to be fooled into Poe’s point-of-view.

Probably why she didn’t get a proper ‘hero’ introduction as well. It’s a trade-off, but one I liked given where and how it’s taken: this is all Poe’s point of view - to the very end, and that’s why his turn into a proper leader works in the finale.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate how well-written this film is.

Poe got a bunch of people killed because he was reckless and disobeyed orders. But it’s cool because ‘Ah, that’s just how Poe is, the little scamp’.

It’s war, and that’s not his first, nor his only deed.

If he kept pulling stuff like that in an actual war, his superiors would have him shot in the head.

Thankfully, this is drama (with a slant towards action adventure). This is a character flaw, not a movie flaw - I really don’t get the complaints here. At worst, I’d put this in the same ballpark as Chewie being best friends with Lando at the end of ESB, even though he probably should’ve murdered that traitor the first chance he outgrew his usefulness (which would have been almost immediately).

Sorry, but the comparison doesn’t work at all. Lando has earned the forgiveness of the rest of the gang. That was on a personal level. On military level, if you are going to brush off a soldier acting like a complete psychotic, pointing guns at superiors and making decisions that result in people dying, with “oh, ain’t he a cute hothead”, you are seriously challenging the suspension of disbelief.

m_s0 said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

m_s0 said:

joefavs said:

Here’s a pretty good article about the film: https://www.avclub.com/part-kurosawa-part-wile-e-coyote-the-last-jedi-boldl-1821291545

RE: Ackbar vs. Holdo, the author of this piece has a good point in a response to a comment:

Ignatiy Vishnevetsky said:

Lotta folks seem to think that her role should have gone to good ol’ Admiral Ackbar, but I get Johnson’s intention: Everybody likes Ackbar, and the audience needs to be fooled into Poe’s point-of-view.

Probably why she didn’t get a proper ‘hero’ introduction as well. It’s a trade-off, but one I liked given where and how it’s taken: this is all Poe’s point of view - to the very end, and that’s why his turn into a proper leader works in the finale.

The more I think about it, the more I appreciate how well-written this film is.

Poe got a bunch of people killed because he was reckless and disobeyed orders. But it’s cool because ‘Ah, that’s just how Poe is, the little scamp’.

It’s war, and that’s not his first, nor his only deed.

If he kept pulling stuff like that in an actual war, his superiors would have him shot in the head.

1 TESB
2 ANH
3 R1
4 ROTJ
5 TFA
6 TLJ
7 TPM
8 ROTS
9 AOTC

ATMachine said:

The shot of Jyn in front of the lights was pretty obviously a glamour shot.

Was it, though? Just before she and Cassian get into the archive room, there is a short segment of Kay instructing them on how to bypass the security that really feels like it was originally a part of a much longer sequence, that got cut. That scene would take place in the very same hallway we see in the trailer shot.

MalàStrana said:

Since “hope” is the theme, why not: A Spark of Hope ?

Because that actually sounds like a fanfilm title. Or… well… a fanedit title.

Rogue One is a way better title than The Rebellion Rises. 😄

Apart from the five books you’ve read/are reading I only read Survivor’s Quest, but I don’t really remember much of it. 😃 Zahn also wrote some PT-era books.

Also, it seems he is currently in charge of bringing the Grand Admiral into the Disney canon: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Thrawn_(novel)

ZkinandBonez said:

I personally really like Dark Empire, and the fact that it didn’t really acknowledge Zahn’s books outside of the crawl is fine with me. More time spent making an interesting and different story, rather than spend too much time trying to connect everything.

I used to like Dark Empire as well. It did feel like jumping the shark at several points, but it had a very nice pulp comic feel. I also have to admit I am not a huge fan of Zahn. Always felt like his stories were really smart, but ultimately not that exciting.

IIRC, the whole point of that part in the book where they talk about the reborn Emperor was to suggest that maybe it wasn’t really Palpatine but an imposter. Apparently Zahn really hated the plot of Dark Empire. 😃