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Wesyeed

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6-Nov-2004
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20-Sep-2021
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455

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Post
#252548
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252548/action/topic#252548
Time
Well it's a fact Lucas didn't know what the hell he was doing for the PT and I think most likely had only general ideas for everything without a clear plan layed out. Explain midichlorians, but not what the force is? That is just stupid. Yeah, one of many stupid decisions actually. Is such carelessness the result of an over inflated ego, yeah probably. I wish I were so moronic enough to have absolutely no issue with Lucas' sloppy writing and directing. I really do. I thought the duel of the fates was cool as much as anyone did. However I'm stuck wishing it didn't cut away to a scene of jar jar's balls being crushed.

Maybe it'd have been better to start with the Clone wars instead of things being peaceful and sweet until two frogs decide to hold people hostage for trade taxes or whatever nonsense. The idea of using war as an means to gain more power is more interesting than using some frog guys and somehow getting a senate who's problem is indecisivness to easily decide to elect a new chancellor, yeah that'd have worked better.
Post
#252543
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252543/action/topic#252543
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Wesyeed

It's like a class system where once there was only level of experience and skill. Jedi are to be classed as a mutants, than a mysteriously cool supernatural warriors. Yoda could train every day for 400 years but never achieve enough force power as someone with more 'size' than him? I can not accept this.


Exactly. Force-sensitive beings are now either freaks of nature or superior beings destined to rule lesser mortals like Nazi supermen. Where's the far reach of the force and its mysterious relationship to fate and destiny now? Its all based upon a few people who have too much bacteria in their body. Once they're wiped out the force becomes trivial.


And I guess it gives new meaning to han's words.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

"You don't believe in the force, do you..."

"Kid, I've flown from one end of the galaxy to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."

Maybe Obi-wan should tell him he's right in the next special edition.
Post
#252527
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252527/action/topic#252527
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
No, Midichlorians are what allows life to exist in the first place. The Jedi communicate with the force through them in the same way they hear sounds with their ears.

No, Qui-Gon specifically said that midichlorians speak to Jedi and "tell" them the will of the force. They aren't just organs or appendages. They're supposed to be intelligent.


Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic

Are living beings "luminous," like Yoda said, or do they simply carry varrying amounts of hereditary bacteria?

Why can't they be both? It's not like the Force wasn't hereditary in the classic trilogy. I figure with the Midichlorians, we have a solid basis to say it's about all life, not just the Skywalkers.


In the original trilogy, strength with the force was only vaguely hereditary. Only in the prequels does the source of such powers become so physically limited. I believe it was better when the force was presented as permeating everything and existing everywhere, including the mind's of Jedi. Requiring arbitrary counts of bacteria to give the minds of living beings a connection to the force makes the Star Wars universe a lot smaller and less interesting at best. At worst, it makes the force into an annoyingly indistinct plot element that is difficult to accept on the surface.


Absolutely. The truth is, like many additions such as that general grovus robot guy and his useless guards and Ian's face contortions during battle, this seemed to me as an unnecessary convolution, like taking time to sit down and explain Yoda and Chewbacca were old friends. Why? Nobody cares. And it brings up more questions than it answers. I'd rather learn about force ghosts, but no the movie has to wrap things up quickly. So yoda says basically "I was just chilling one day in the meditation room and someone told me we can become immortal somehow. I'll teach you." End of story. Shinaninagans... I'm supposed to believe Midis were more imporatant to detail than that?

We don't need it. We don't need a scene dedicated to farts and we don't need a scene dedicated to saying Jedi are x-men. Mystical powers are GASP actually mystical?... OH really? Now kiddies are wondering why Leia tells luke she could never have powers like his, when all she needs to do is test her blood to find out. Thus is the consequence of Lucas' careless writing for the Pt. Nothing was sacred since he constantly changes all the movies, right...

It's like a class system where once there was only level of experience and skill. Jedi are to be classed as a mutants, than a mysteriously cool supernatural warriors. Yoda could train every day for 400 years but never achieve enough force power as someone with more 'size' than him? I can not accept this.

It's like... uh. Remember in Rots when count dooku expends his energy to flip over the rails instead of walk down the stairs. that's metaphorically what midichlorians are, an unnecessary flip where you could easily walk down the stairs called "I sense great force potential in him" And that's just how the new Lucas likes to do things for whatever reason. My guess is that no one told him that it'd be wise not to.

I'm reminded of full metal alchemist and how there exist parallel worlds, one where science dominated and one where mystical powers did. The mystical powers if I recall were only explained so far as saying certain people were able to control the elements to do cool stuff like re-shape them, turn anything into something else. It's an ambiguous sort of magic that I found even more fascinating because aspects of it could only be imagined, it's magic powers... Going back to a point about children someone made. I think it's important to allow them to use their imagination in these fantasy stories. I love fantasy for that. I don't know why a suit of armor can walk on its own, maybe it's magnetically controlled by invisible forces of earth's gravity. I don't know! That's what makes mit magic, and that's part of the fun of it to me. with the intro of midi count determining force potential, I wonder if Luke's count is half of vader's or on par with yoda's or do sith use a midi sensor . They're both children of a powerful jedi knight bla bla bla luke tells leia the force is strong in their family. He doesn't say his midichlorian count is high, just that the force is strong. So I assume the likely hood of someone having a force capable child is increased, not necessarily determined exactly by whether there was enough midichlorian juice in the sperm. but I always wondered after the midichlorian thing started if Anakin's sperm dna dominated Pad Me's egg dna so that luke and leia's midi count was still quite high despite padme just being a regular human.

It's more interesting to me to continue the discord rather than erase it and simply turn magic into science. In the original, certain people were the midichlorians, or force users. There was never a need to add smaller force users inside a force user. it would add nothing but confusion.

"I find your lack of midichlorians disturbing."
"The midichlorians are with you young one, but you are not a jedi, yet."
"Judge me by my size, do you? And you should not, for my allys are the midichlorians, and a powerful allys they are."
"Trust your midichlorians"
"I sense something, a midichlorian I've not sensed since..."
"Lord vader we've run some routine tests and have discovered the princess has a midichlorian count of one billion zillion."
Post
#252422
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252422/action/topic#252422
Time
I'll add that I believe it's quite fun for children to imagine how magic fantasy powers work rather than give them a boring science lesson to explain it like they're some bad child actor. In other news. Woot I thought this was hilarious. The other films are done that way too.. maybe it's relevant, I don't know.

edit: And i remind myself how fickle star wars is nowadays since nothing in them is sacred to Lucas. So why continue posting at tfn and such arguing over them, I think. I could never see much reason in arguing all day over nothing but I do it anyway. It must be the liquor. Just Remember that all the star wars movies are still in production. We only saw a work print at the theaters.
Post
#252404
Topic
My girlfriend has never seen Star Wars!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252404/action/topic#252404
Time
I like to watch old vintage movies, some star trek too since I recently got into that. I've seen all the movies too, the first one was sooooo boring but pretty interesting, and the second was great, the rest were ok, and I've recently started listening to online radio shows from the 50s. There's some great stuff available for free if you can find it. Now that I think of it, I haven't watched a star wars movie in a long while since seeing Darth editous' anh. heh, I probably won't ever watch one seriously again unless it's a fan edit or by some miracle the OT is finally released at top quality, no half assed old transfer. I'd watch another SE if it were good but I'm more than sure that if lucas tinkers with the OT for a third time, he'll just fuck parts of it around more and add jar jar in scenes. He's probably crazy enough to do that. I'm convinced he only cares about the money, not doing the best he can.

The tv series that's getting made now could be good. I might check that out.

Other than that star wars is basically nothing more than a few visits to this board. I usually don't come here much but I always liked it's non-tfn feel. It's a good place, one of the best to chat star wars with people who have similar experiences with the trilogy.

Right now I'm more concerned than ever about preserving the OT for future generations in a format that meets today's top quality. I don't hate the SE's mostly. Some parts improve the films in ways i prefer to the original actually, but that doesn't change my mind set that the original is a part of history that deserves to be preserved. It's not some cheap porn flick that came out in 77, yunno? It's Star Wars, darnit. And you're girlfriend, and my niece, and joe-anybody should be able to see it the way it was when boba sounded cool and not constipated etc. Oh hell yes.
Post
#252374
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252374/action/topic#252374
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: Wesyeed

Star wars re-enforced the idea of having faith in your abilities, letting go of relying on techno doo hickies, and achieviing something just because you believe you can... Star wars was a very different galaxy far far away until 1999... Mutant jedi huh... heh sure, magneto and xavier and wolverine are jedi. Yoda didn't have enough midichlorians to defeat the emperor. Size Matters. Obi-wan had more midis, that's why he beat darth maul. "Master Yoda, you can't die." "Many midichlorians do I have, but not that many..." And my favorite, "Use the midichlorians, Luke."


Hmmm, perfect explanation and illustration for why the "midiclorians" idea was way too specific. I liked how they were linked to the creation of life and Anakin's conception, but beyond that they add so many new questions and problems to the understanding of the force that the average viewer simply scratches his or her head and doesn't like it anymore.


There are a lot of things that made me scratch my head about the pt but I gave it a free pass in some vague hope that it'd be expounded on in the next film to make it more relevant than just some throwaway detail, but it never came. I think lucas came up with very interesting concepts as well, but his execution of them was very sloppy in the end indicating to me that there was no clear plan laid out for all three of the new films. Midichlorian power levels, palpatine's overly complicated plot, jar jar, anakin building threepio, Taz manian yoda, General cheezy, all this stuff amounted to something that struck me as artificial or cartoony and self indulgent rather than necessary and good for the story.

I think it's just because noone told him, "no"
Post
#252311
Topic
The Merits of the Prequel Trilogy and the "Saga"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252311/action/topic#252311
Time
Originally posted by: garethxxgod
Originally posted by: Wesyeed
Originally posted by: garethxxgod
call me a slob if you will, but I'm with Peter Griffin.....I just did not care much for the Godfather films.

I haven't seen Dr. Strangelove but my brother says it's highly overrated. Kubrick has been hit and miss with me, I like Clockwork Orange and The Shining but I hate 2001: A Space Oddessy well....since those are the only movies of his I've seen I guess I shouldn't really comment.

I know I'm really late for this discussion also, but correct me if this has already been stated. Wasn't the use of Midiclorians a way of determining how well a Jedi could use the force? I have to ask, how would they have determined how one was powerful in the force without an example? Would they have just "known"? Would it have been an instinctual thing? Midiclorians was one of those things I never really bothered about and never knew it was such a problem till I heard people complaining about it on the net, however even if not completely accurate wouldn't that be a better way to get an approximation of ones abilities with the Force? I mean "feeling" one is powerful is one thing, but it still doesn't let you KNOW how powerful they are. That to me doesn't really take away from the mystism of the Jedi Knights.


It makes jedi potential quantifiable. It's basically going against everything yoda said in ESB "size matter not"

why can't people fuoking see this?

Typical Gomer PT-gush response in 3... 2... 1...



But Jedi expand their horizons all the time. Just because a Midiclorian count says a Jedi has x amount of pull with the Force doesn't mean that that will stay that way forever or they will only get to a certain point of being able to manipulate the force. I like to believe that Jedi are only limited by how much they are willing to learn. Surely the nature of learning techniques and mastery of the force is not limited to your Midiclorian count, it's just a counter to even determine if a certain person even has the ability with the Force. If the force didn't have any ties to nature and was just a mystical energy force that just happened to appear out of nowhere, woudn't it effect everything? Wouldn't everyone be Force Sensitive?

The fact that nature surrounds it, penetrates it, makes life grow should indicate that SOMETHING has to manipulate the force and connect those who can hear the will of the force with the world around him. You could almost say that in a way the Midiclorians are like a disease and will only effect those who have certain parentage but like Anakin there is always that anomoly. Like the world the way some people are just born different. I mean how do we determine where disease come from? People study it right? I mean where does disease come from in our real world? Someone had to discover this intangible nothingness down to a science or atleast something that you can see within the blood stream or life being of that person. The Midiclorian count is taking something that is attached to a mystified ancient order and understanding how "the universe binds it together". Like most mysteries we are given the how, but never the why.

Now the Midiclorian use in the first film was only to help demonstrate how powerful with the Force Anakin really could become, nothing more really. It helps determine that he IS the Chosen One. You must see it (sorry had to throw that in there). I know the Chosen One Prophecy is pretty much looked down upon by those who don't really like the Prequels or even buy that part of the story but again that's really the only reason the Midiclorian count was used in the film. Obviously we disagree which is fine, but I'd like to hear your thoughs....and please be constructive.....I'm not going to be like a "typical gusher" and say you are wrong or anything you have to say doesn't have merit. Believe me with just the one line I atleast had to think about my response and how it made sense to myself. Take it easy.


It's the internet, we're all assholes who want to tear each other's digital heads off, so you can keep your take it easy to yourself. Yeah yeah, I know what a mcguffin is. I know why it was put in there and took up valuable screen time to spoonfeed what they were and I know exactly why tiptup's bored with this....because the question really is why were Midichlorians necessary? They had no later impact on the rest of the movies besides a brief mention. They easily could have and should have been left out. The original intention was to have palpatine reveal that he created Anakin through the force, but it was kind of glossed over.

Ok, I understand you still think any jedi can work extra hard and become super powerful, but when you watch the TPM movie, that's not what it's telling you. It's telling you that you are only as good as what that number says on the midi-meter. And that whole idea behind them contradicts what Yoda believes in ESB about one's power with the force being un-hindered by 'crude matter' if they truly believe in it. The force is strong with him, would have sufficed once again. We don't want to confuse the audience with a lot of babbling about microscopic beings that can talk to you, and just make them wonder why the rebells haven't found a few jedi babies with a midi-meter and taught them to use the force etc.

I'm trying to make sense out of the paragraph about making nature grow and mysteries and intangible nothingness being scientifically explained, but it just is a difficult one to understand. You could run around in circles all day with that whole idea, i suppose. I would ask why did this need to be explained? What was really gained besides new questions? Are dark side midichlorians more powerful than light side midichlorians? Why are they symbionts with all lifeforms? what do they take from their host? Why do midis allow the force to be used for evil purposes? What creates high midi counts in certain people? Why do they exist? How do midis control the force? Why can't the force talk to people directly? Is Obi-wan talking to Luke's midichlorians in ANH before Luke hears it? Can a midi level 400 beat a midi level 600? Where do midi-babies come from if jedi aren't allowed to have children? Just fall out of the sky I guess. If you got a blood transfusion from a jedi... etc. the list goes on and on...

Anyway bottom line for me is in better hands than Lucas' midichlorians might have worked fine. It's not a terrible concept. Ever see Naruto? It scientifically explains the control of mystical energies much better than this. Basically it extends the idea of how we can biological use energy in our bodies, no microscopic alien mutant shit involved, just certain people have the ability to control chakra energy fields (like ki which is like the force) and special family bloodlines have unique bioligical traits that can do some unique things with chakra energy. No heavy handed blatant christ parallel either, just good drama. I never bought into the idea of ripping off the bible giving something more meaning. The show's focus is very interesting in how it focuses not on a character being granted his great powers from birth putting him ahead of the rest but on self determination being a significant factor in how powerful you can become with your abilities. It is basically everything the PT should have been, showing us the downfal of a good character who's lust for power and revenge destroys him... good stuff.

The way the midi thing is just thrown in there quickly in tpm like a throw away explanation that has no serious affect on the story doesn't work for me personally. Like sifo dyas. What the hell was that all about? Just use a fake name or whatever. The kaminoans won't care. It seems like an unnecessary convolution that could easily be avoided. You tell me jedi can expand their horizon and i say, "I wish they still could." The midis don't really add anything but that idea of quantifying force potential as you claim. "Now the Midiclorian use in the first film was only to help demonstrate how powerful with the Force Anakin really could become, nothing more really" My point simiply is that measuring potential is antithetic to Yoda's teachings to luke as well just being unnecessary to the story overall anyway. Strength in the force or force sensitivity is fine with me... the midi idea just seems like a brain fart that needed to be questioned before production began on tpm.

If you read GL's original ideas for star wars he compares the force power Luke, obiwan and vader have to Ki energy from stories in Japan I believe. If their powers were meant to be explained with science then I'm sure they would have been long ago but for three whole movies, they weren't. It's pretty much exactly like Ki power, just a mystical energy force explained through action more than words or a microscope. It was even called an ancient religion in the first film to show how unconventional and rare belief in such a thing as mystical energy fields was at the time... further indicated by han solo of course with his disbelief in it. Surely that guy who was choked knows if you have enough midis you can do some neat tricks doesn't he... but instead he consider's vader just a weird magician of some kind who's power is inferior next to the power of technology. Vader disagrees and chokes him of course. Anyway comparitively, Ki powas is what the force is like and anybody and everybody has the ability to use ki, no matter your ki-dichlorian count. It's more relatable that way than to say only certain people can use ki, though like in real life, some people are just naturally gifted with certain talents. I'm not exactly fully knowledgable about the details but I know for a fact that that was what the force was based on, and other similar religious beliefs.

So now you're basically telling me that Jedi are mutants. Like x-men. hmmmm... next step in evolution? Well that's fine for you, I don't really care, I'm not one to pester someone with my point of view unprovoked. You're actually more civil than those I'm used to dealing with in online discussion... well, The force power to me is as enigmatic as the spirit we all claim to possess. You can't open yourself up and see the spirit or even soul, right? But why do some believe that humans have a spirt or soul if we can't pull out a microscope and find it? Like many mysteries in life, it all comes down to faith in the end. That's what I believe anwyay... the force inherently was more based on belief than quantifiable data. It was a refreshing concept to me in that most sci fi I was familiar with tried to explain every little thing. Star wars re-enforced the idea of having faith in your abilities, letting go of relying on techno doo hickies, and achieviing something just because you believe you can... Star wars was a very different galaxy far far away until 1999... Mutant jedi huh... heh sure, magneto and xavier and wolverine are jedi. Yoda didn't have enough midichlorians to defeat the emperor. Size Matters. Obi-wan had more midis, that's why he beat darth maul. "Master Yoda, you can't die." "Many midichlorians do I have, but not that many..." And my favorite, "Use the midichlorians, Luke."



wow that came out longer than I expected, sorry.

Another gomer gush in 3... 2... 1...

Post
#252234
Topic
Here's my stance
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252234/action/topic#252234
Time
What I can't believe is how we all pretty much played into his little game. LOL, I really should know better by now.

And I defenitely don't believe in all these online extremes some go to with "best movie ever" "subtle nuances" "Worst ever" Even Pure Trash movies have some entertainment value of course. It's when you take into account how easily that Pure Trash could have been Pure Terrificness that it becomes wasted potential.

I'll use batman forever as an example. It's a very entertaining, well made film, nice fx and stuff etc., but when you as a fan step back and look at the big rubber butt cheeks of batman and realize how wrong it is, it's not so easy to like it much anymore. I did have a blast at BF, but it truly is a horrible batman film. What a world, ain't it?

The parts of the SE that do what they're supposed to do and enhance the original movie, not change it into a cartoony crap fest, those I did like. you know, just that non-intrusive practiacally the same as the original but with better graphics, that sort of thing... It's like playing a new version of pacman with a 3D pacman but the same exact gameplay as before I guess.

I only hope Lucas realizes some day maybe that all that money he spends to add more and more cartoony crap to the OT came out of people who truly loved and cared for his original films. Of course his army of yes men and online sycophants will defend everything he does to damage the trilogy that people love with excuses like "oh that part was crap but it didn't ruin the whole movie" *sigh* After years online I've concluded that yes it does. It ruins the integrity of not only the movie itself, the original it came from, but its creator too to let such poor decisions get out to the public. It's a shame we are sitting here today some of us and there are kids in this world who will watch their friend's star wars dvd and see that green guy miss with a laser gun at point blank range. That is truly unforgivable in my opinion. I really bought into the excuses by some very intimidating (most likely lucas interns) online who'd just brush it off like it was nothing, but it's a huge something to me. I originally wanted the original trilgoy preserved for myself but as I get older, I realize it's not just about preserving it for me. Star Wars deserves better than what it's being given and no studio intern will convince me otherwise.
Post
#252198
Topic
Letterbox looks like CRAP on a widescreen HDTV :(
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252198/action/topic#252198
Time
27 inch is toy

I never got the special features discs, (I won't call them the oot or out or Shout or pout) since I think it's just disrespectful to not treat the classics better or at least on the same level as the revised version. They must look good on regular tv though, but HD I'm guessing not. I also think non-anamorphic is truly crap. i should know. I ripped my rocketeer dvd to my hard drive only to discover it was non-anamorphic. I said "wtf" because it looked fine on my little tv just like all my other dvds, even recent ones, but of course as I learned from seeing the little crappy video image with huge black bars in the video formatted to fit a 4:3, this was a huge waste of space, and the video looked like a bad video stream when I blew it up to full screen on my laptop... and it's a damn pain in the ass to resize too. For me anyway.... I'm more used to converting anamorphic dvds to avi and such...

well that's my story. Treat star wars proper, george.
Post
#252196
Topic
My girlfriend has never seen Star Wars!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252196/action/topic#252196
Time
Originally posted by: garethxxgod
Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
Originally posted by: garethxxgod
Star Wars is just another fun thing I want to share with her....turns out she was just really horny that night.


You have bad judgement, my friend. You should have paused the movie. Trust me, you've got all the time in the world.


heh, yeah....well we did have time after the movie. That's the great thing about her parents they don't expect her home at any time. So regardless I did have all the time in the world.


*just smiles for a few minutes*

Post
#252183
Topic
TheForce.Net? Anything Wrong?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252183/action/topic#252183
Time
MF used to be awesome for spoilers, yeah. All the best stuff that TFN and such places wouldn't post because they were scared of Lucas' lawyers would be posted on MF... the discussion boards never interested me though, just the spoilers.

I was banned from tfn for no good reason, but I'm glad they banned me. Now I'm all for free speech, feeling free to have your own views and such, but there comes a point with all the celebrating of idiocy and accepting/praising mediocre quality that one has to take a step back and look at the state of things and say "this is bs." I just don't need to waste my time reading retarded posts about the original trilogy being crap, that star wars was always crap, and that is what we should expect and just accept it as the same as the new star wars crap being released today since it was always crap. And you know why some on there say that? Because it wasn't made in 2006. It's basically some empty-headed retard coming along and figuring out how to type and say that since the original trilogy doesn't have cgi in every other scene, it's no good. Goddam brats. There's a thing called excellence, and that's what star wars used to be, and it didn't need cgi to do it. If it wasn't nobody would have cared for it and the phenomenon it became at the time would have never happened.

So I'm glad I'm out of there, running around in circles all day with some bored kid... yeesh, I must sound like an old person, but I'm really quite young...