Valheru_84

I think watching TLJ has done something to my brain for me to watch this to the end…

https://youtu.be/ntnarC4ii1s

.Val

DrDre said:

Sothis said:

DominicCobb said:

What’s funny to me is people complained that TFA played it too safe, now this did the opposite of that and people are still complaining.

this is too real.

Since when is different automatically good?

Someone actually demonstrated as well how TLJ is still generally a repeat of a lot of parts TESB and some ROTJ, it’s just no where near as obvious and in your face as TFA was.

.Val

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:
He’s just an outright fuckhead

Okay man, glad to see you’re handling this well.

I’m handling it fine thanks. I just so happen to think RJ has pulled the biggest dick move in SW history (worse than what GL ever did with his SEs and PTs) and I’ll call him out for it.

It seems you can’t follow my train of thought though in being unable to understand what I’m saying so it’s pointless trying to explain it any further as you simply keep not getting it when I do.

.Val

Collipso said:

I think some of the criticism that’s been directed at TLJ should be directed at TFA instead. TFA set up its sequels with having to answer so many questions that should’ve been answered by TFA itself. It worked as a first part in a two parter, and it should’ve been a standalone film to set things up, like Star Wars and even The Phantom Menace were.
One example is Snoke and the First Order. Why not just tell us how he rose to power and how the First Order came to be in TFA? Why leave it to the other movies? But no, screw it. TFA shouldn’t have left a mystery box for the other movies to fill.

Sure they could have answered some of these questions in TFA but there was nothing wrong with how they did do it. Trying to blame TFA for TLJ issues is like blaming the OT for the issues the PT creates. As a planned trilogoy, it was Rian Johnson’s responsibility to continue on the themes and story arcs that TFA started but he decided to not only give JJ the middle finger, but the audience as well by subverting every single expectation built in TFA and the years in between and even all the expectations he creates in his own movie. He’s just an outright fuckhead and I hate him for using one of the main saga episodes to make his non-conventional gotcha movie with a Star Wars facade.

.Val

DominicCobb said:

Anchorhead said:

Hal 9000 said:
… the finished film in isolation would imply to me that he was just not interested in carrying on the themes and setups the previous film gave him to work with.

We’re not the only ones to have an issue with his desire to put the franchise on its ear. There is an interview with Daisy where she says as soon as she read the script she went to Rian and said “we need to have a talk about what’s happening here”.

I wasn’t interested in several parts of JJ’s film, Snoke and Phasma among them. However, Rian just discarding them seems lazy and/or disrespectful to all the work that went into them in TFA; actors, designers, costumers, writers,etc. They were presented as major characters, much to the delight of a huge portion of the fan base. All the fan speculation the past two years was all for nothing.

Rian treated them the way major characters are treated on Game Of Thrones - You found the character and their story interesting? - too bad. That’s the main reason I stopped watching GoT. It became a waste of time. I’m not terribly interested in the ST. But I am glad it’s back in the hands of JJ.

I think the problem here is a misperception. Neither Snoke nor Phasma were a big part in JJ’s film (in fact I’d bet their combined screen time is under 10 minutes). They were only ever important insofar as how they relate to Kylo Ren and Finn’s characters, respectively. I don’t see how RJ betrays that in anyway, all he does is acknowledge that Kylo and Finn have moved beyond them. And killing them isn’t tossing them aside or being respectful to them - honestly both their parts were much more interesting and consequential to the story this time around.

Snoke didn’t have much screen time but it was made obvious that he plays a massive part in the overarching back story as to the events unfolding in the ST. He’s an integral part to Kylo’s character and made to be a bigger threat than the emperor in TLJ. By killing him off so suddenly without providing any explanation to the no doubt hundreds of various questions people had come up with in the initial viewing and subsequent 2 years wait in between, his threat became a wisp of smoke (Snoke might as well have been as thin as smoke for all the depth he was given in the end) and by extension massively compromised and lessened both Kylo’s threat and his depth of character due to all the possible branches of story between him and Snoke that much got killed off in the process.

Phasma never had any real backstory or purpose in either movie and seemed to simply be there to market a shiny new toy. Her character really was useless to the plot of either movie and I couldn’t care less (unfortunately for the actor involved) that she’s supposedly dead, would have preferred her not to even come back in TLJ.

.Val

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

If you’re watching Star Wars for accurate space physics then you’re watching the wrong movie. Might as well edit out all the sounds and explosions from all the other films if that’s the way you feel about it.

That’s exactly the point I was making.

DominicCobb said:

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

Plot holes are the lowest form of criticism. One of the worst things about the internet is it thinks you can judge the quality of a movie based on how many plot holes it has (blame Cinemasins, I suppose). That’s wrong.

If they’re big and obvious enough they can very well ruin a movie. In this case they don’t directly impact the story and are very minor quibbles alongside the real issues with this movie. I was just pointing out that if you’re going to argue from a point of logic and fact in regards to how things work in space, you have to acknowledge the other things that aren’t correct in the movie which follow the theme of inconsistency and forgetting the rules when it suits.

DominicCobb said:
Also, I’m snarky/sarcastic about everything. That’s just who I am.

Fair enough, don’t be surprised though when people reply in kind or are rightly agitated by your tone if it’s not warranted.

.Val

Mielr said:

Valheru_84 said:

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

This was a good watch, I found his other video “The Last Jedi: A hate letter to Star Wars and it’s fans” to be even better and in just the first 2-3 minutes he pretty much nails the major issue with TLJ (though the whole video is a good watch):

https://youtu.be/vOdobc7jtQo

I’m getting the same video when I click on those 2 links… 😕

Ah k, must have quoted the wrong link as it was the below that I initially watched and then the one I linked:

https://youtu.be/BYroQCN-MAM

.Val

SilverWook said:

If these guys aren’t all being sucked out into space, then a similar emergency field around a small door isn’t a stretch.

Seriously people, we’re nitpicking movies where you can hear sounds in space.

True, I think it’s the part where the bombs drop as if they’re in range of the planets gravity that already calls into question what’s happening here which makes you then think how is she surviving in the vacuum of space which the bomb doors just open out into with no indication as to any force field. It was obvious in your example that there is some force field in action (helped by the large ring of light all way around the opening) so everyone can stand around beside open space as if it were nothing to worry about. This just doesn’t come across in this movie where the bombers feel very reminiscent of WW2 bombers that of course flying through Earths atmosphere, simply open the bomb doors to it and drop the bombs straight out of them, much like happens in this movie with no clue in to any tech keeping the bomber interior safe from space.

It still doesn’t cover for the events surrounding Leia though and they even tell us in the movie that they’ve focused all shield power to the rear which results in the bridge being able to be blown out in the first place. Honestly don’t know why the Ties were called back, its not like they were getting shot to pieces or anything. They’d taken out the fighter launch bay and they’d just taken out the bridge. A few more volleys of fire and the Resistance mothership would have been done for.

.Val

DominicCobb said:

People realize how easy it is to “fly” in space right? You don’t have to to be Superman or Mary Poppins. It’s space. People realize this, right? Right?

If you’re going to remind people how space actually works then you need to explain how she didn’t die from it’s vacuum, how they opened the door she appeared at without decompressing that entire area and shooting Leia back out into space. Why was Rose’s sister not in a space suit when in the bomber bay that was exposed to space? Why did the bombs drop as if reacting to gravity?

These are all obvious plot holes anyway but regardless of the fairly casual approach to space facts in its sci-fi that SW normally takes, these are all stepping far beyond the edge of plausibility and straight into suspension of disbelief zone for anyone with the simplest knowledge of how things work in space.

I just don’t see how you can argue a point (so snidely / sarcastically as well) by calling out the obviousness of how easy it would be to move yourself in space with the force but then ignore the in-your-face issues applying such logic creates for so many other areas of the movie and from someone that says it’s a great movie…

.Val

DrDre said:

Here’s “the guy” again, who’s actually a fantasy writer, with his spoiler review of TLJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOdobc7jtQo

This was a good watch, I found his other video “The Last Jedi: A hate letter to Star Wars and it’s fans” to be even better and in just the first 2-3 minutes he pretty much nails the major issue with TLJ (though the whole video is a good watch):

https://youtu.be/vOdobc7jtQo

I really sympathised with the guy in the below video as well who despite some rather insulting applications of various expletives a few times throughout (and one use of the r word), feels like he is really just pouring out his heartfelt rage and disappointment at what Rian Johnson and Disney have done to SW with TLJ. It is a rant, but a well articulated one in which he touches on many of the major issues quite well. Listening to it actually helped me a bit in recognising and dealing with the anger I’ve had building in me since watching TLJ and reading all the various reviews and opinions on it since, many that I have really resonated with and helped me to understand what I feel is wrong with the movie. I really despise what RJ and Disney have done in TLJ and hate them for the fact that it means the end of SW for me from here on:

https://youtu.be/tNoMQSvNAWE

.Val

Captain Needa said:

Some of the hate being thrown at people who have legitimate questions concerning the film is concerning. Star Wars brought fans together. This film has split us in two and added unsavory elements from outside to stir up more disagreement.

Can’t say I’ve seen any hate in here directed at any one, definitely at the movie though.

Also I wouldn’t say this movie has split us in two. I would say the PT split the SW fan base in two. TFA started to show some hope of bringing it back together but TLJ has since torn it completely apart while also creating fresh divisions amongst both the OT and PT parties. Essentially TLJ has fractured the SW fan base and proclaims to “kill the past”, to wipe the slate clean and start again with a fully disney-fied and commercialised SW franchise for the next generation of suckers (not trying to white wash everyone that continues to watch SW post TLJ here but simply point out that some people are blind to such things and will buy into anything SW no matter what. These type of people are already a large part of SW fandom and if that’s what floats their boat, so be it. I for one will not be bought so easily simply because “Star Wars”).

Between EA’s treatment of the latest Battlefront 2 game and the direction TLJ is taking SW, I really have no desire to continue buying into this marketing machine. I’m resigned to the fact that as all good things must come to an end, SW has run it’s course for me and I’ll just have to be content with enjoying the OT in its fan restored goodness, since I can’t even get legit copies anymore of the movies I care about most.

.Val

Collipso said:

Valheru_84 said:

People complain about Jyn being an underdeveloped character in R1, but where we are now after TFA and TLJ, she’s got a lot more depth than Rey does at this stage and that’s after only one movie.

I felt like Cassian had more of a character arc than Rey.

I could agree with that.

People complain about Jyn being an underdeveloped character in R1, but where we are now after TFA and TLJ, she’s got a lot more depth than Rey does at this stage and that’s after only one movie.

And to represent my anger at what RJ has done to SW in this movie (and his treatment of fans), here is a pretty awesome rant video. He makes a couple of minor mistakes on a couple of matters and missed a few opportunities and issues that I would have made special mention of but he pretty much nails it from start to finish, all while getting to watch a watermelon go mouldy 😛

https://youtu.be/9QJRw56cOVw

A couple of other interesting and IMHO very valid points on the movie that I found from watching a few other vids (that I won’t bother posting here as a lot of it is simply repeating all the issues already covered many times over by other videos and posts in this thread):

• The entire movie is a never ending series of “gotchya!” scenarios.

• The entire premise of the movie is to subvert audience expectations, constantly at the cost to characters, story, overall consistency and canonical rules.

.Val

Nice to see the fans that disliked or hated this movie represented in main stream media, to provide some balance against all the gushing positive feedback while brushing off the major criticisers as rabid, basement dwelling mommaboys or in many cases - just simply Star Wars fans as if this somehow means their opinion on a Star Wars movie is automatically skewed and worthless…

https://youtu.be/ZQ8ir66M5XU

.Val

Petition is over 50,000 now. Will be interesting to see how high it actually goes.

.Val

DrDre said:

NeverarGreat said:

Is this why so many people disliked TLJ, because it confirms what George was trying to say throughout the prequels?

Sorry to have to tell you this, but that stuff’s technically canon.

I absolutely disagree, that that’s the message Lucas was sending with the saga. It’s one thing to question dogma, it’s another to reject basic values on which that dogma is based. The Jedi needed to evolve, and Luke by redeeming his father did that. He grew beyond the dogma of his masters by embracing the basic Jedi values without having been conditioned from birth to follow dogma. That’s the real return of the Jedi. Those were the values upon which the Old Republic was based, and those were the values that guarded the peace of the galaxy for over a thousand generations, a thousand generations!!! The last three decades in the Star Wars galaxy, and even the Emperor’s reign, are like a drop in the ocean compared to that. To deny that reality, and throw it in the bin, that is vanity. We are, what they grow beyond, states Yoda in TLJ. Luke was that, but in order for Rey to catch up and take over the batton, Luke had to forfeit the race.

This argument also brings me back to Rey’s sudden Force powers. One of my critics argued I was being pedantic for not accepting Rey’s rapid progression. She’s just a fast learner. Anyone who argues that fails to understand, that it’s not about the powers, she displays. The ironic thing is, that TLJ argues the Force is not about those powers, but then fails to recognize the underlying themes that becoming a Jedi represent. The dark side is the quick and easy path. One of the big lessons of the OT is, that it’s not easy to walk the path of the righteous, and to resist temptation. To have these super human powers, is to have an enormous responsibility, and to be a Jedi is to have an almost super human moral code. Rome wasn’t built in one day, and to obtain this stage of enlightenment takes years of training and self-reflection. That’s what becoming a Jedi was all about, and RJ has thrown that all by the wayside. TLJ is saying you can be the best at something without having to do the work. That’s wish fulfillment. I think that’s a terrible lesson for kids watching these films.

You hit that nail square on the head DrDre. It makes complete sense in this age of instant gratification that Disney would try to market and appeal to a younger generation that want everything now without putting in the effort, especially with their plans to give RJ his own offshoot trilogy - they’re already planning for the next 10 years of how to sell these movies to the kids of today and don’t care if it shits all over whatever came before to achieve that.

.Val

TavorX said:

Possessed said:

Saw it again today. Except for some excessive humor still loved it. Not everything is perfect but it was very powerful and emotional. It definitely got me feeling.

Got my second viewing in today as well. Luke reuniting with Leia still got to me.

The only thing I’m wondering now is how Finn/Rose got caught? Did DJ alert the First Order while he was hacking? Also what was the point of DJ handing back the necklace if all he cared about was money? He could had had both the necklace and the First Order’s reward.

I believe the black emperial version of BB-8 that spots BB-8 in the trash can clues into the fact it’s a trash can and alerts the FO soldiers. The code breaker was with Finn and Rose up to when they got caught at which point he cut a deal with the FO behind their backs.

That’s how I read it anyway and there was no indication beforehand that the code breaker was going to betray them.

.Val

SilverWook said:

And now a message from Tv’s Frink.

I apologize for my overreaction and the distraction/annoyance it caused everyone, including Dre, the moderators, Jay, and everyone else just trying to read and post in a thread about a Star Wars movie.

I was also going to ask Dre to reconsider his announcement that he’s leaving the forum, as he’s a valued member of the community, but I see he’s already posting again. I’m glad to see it.

Good form from both members and I applaud their maturity and willingness to make amends. A good example for other members. Definitely also glad that both will still be around 😃

I didn’t for a second think that DrDre meant to actually offend anyone and I can understand Frink’s reaction though he could try and apply some self moderation and filtering as to how he lets such things affect him. I’m not in his position and so can never truly understand but I also don’t think he needs to take such personal affront unless it is actually directed specifically at him. People say insulting and insensitive things everyday to each other and in the vicinity of other people and it’s up to the individual on whether they allow themselves to be affected by those words or whether it’s just better for themselves to ignore it and move on with what’s important in life.

.Val

DominicCobb said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Applying that logic, they are OT “fanboys” and you’re a TLJ “fanboy”?

Or maybe we could just leave the name calling out of it. As has been repeatedly stressed by mods in here - argue the point, don’t attack the person simply stating their opinion.

I don’t consider fanboy an insult. Just a descriptor. A small subset of diehards fans isn’t going to sway the direction of a series that caters to the widest audience of fans of anything out there, anywhere, these days.

Whether or not you consider it one, it is without doubt a derogatory term. Maybe not in it’s conception but I have only ever seen it used as a way to generalise, label and put down groups of people for whatever reason. Also I don’t completely buy that you’re only using it as a descriptor due to some other comments by yourself that has given me a feeling as to your demeanor towards people you consider “SW fanboys”.

DominicCobb said:

DominicCobb said:
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.

I’ve also been meaning to ask you for a bit about the above post earlier in this thread - why do you feel the need to defend TLJ by replying to every negative review? Is this not a “review and opinions” thread? I’m for civil discourse on varying opinions as much as the next reasonable person but your position seems to be that you feel obligated to actively fend off negative reviews of this movie, sometimes to the extent of really getting in people’s faces and almost aggressively singling them out when they’re just contributing their point of view to the thread.

I usually find your posts to be pretty good around here Dom but in this thread I’ve seen another side of you that isn’t very pretty.

.Val

Look at my posts and look at how many negative reviews there’ve been. It’s not even close. I respond here and there when I find a complaint particularly egregious or think I can actually reason with someone and show them why I disagree in hopes of possibly swaying their take. For the most part I just ignore, for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted - because for the most part some of the complaints are simply beyond my comprehension.

Also, I don’t know why you feel the need to signal me out. I’m far from the only one defending the film. I won’t lie that I’ve had little to do at work the last couple days which has left me looking for a way to past the time, but I hope I don’t seem aggressive in my rebuttals - unless, of course, someone is being misogynistic or disrespectful to people with mental handicaps. I don’t really know what you mean about seeing another side of me, honestly, unless it’s in regard to that.

Also, if the mods decide to ban me, just know that I don’t take back anything I said when I was calling people out for their backwards bullshit. I’m sorry if I won’t let that stand. If the admin team feels fine with keeping toxic shit in while banning people who speak out against it, I don’t see why I should be visiting this site anyway. If the mods don’t ban me, nice. Let’s try to clean this up.

I didn’t feel a need to single you out, it was only the post I quoted and the prevalence with which I’ve seen you continue to respond in this thread (at least up to page 26 and the last 10 or so pages since I started replying myself) that caused me to ask why you obviously feel this burden to defend TLJ against negative reviews in such a thread. I would feel equally curious if someone was actively defending against all the positive reviews. No harm in asking questions and offering your perspective on issues raised and there are definitely many others posting regularly in here, it just seemed from that one post of yours and your proliferation of posts in here that you had indeed taken up some vendetta against negative reviewers and needed to try and bring them around to your POV.

But anyway, I wasn’t trying to have a go at you. I was simply curious as to your position in this thread while also pointing out that the use of “fanboy” isn’t really appreciated. Seeing as where I fall in my view of the movie, your use of the term would obviously include myself and I don’t care for the generalisation on top of the general derogatory connotations anyway.

.Val

SilverWook said:

Cobra Kai said:

Valheru_84 said:

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Yes, you can also watch the full press conference as well as another video from someone in the crowd that shows more of Mark’s face. He looks like that pretty much the whole press conference. He seems better when he speaks, but then goes back to that shocked look. Definitely appears like something is wrong with him, but we can only speculate as to the reason. Could be nothing or just nothing to do with the movie. We’ll never know.

Let’s not speculate on Mark’s health around here until there’s actually something concrete to go on? Thanks!

Yeah wrong topic Wook. This is about Mark’s reaction after seeing his first screening of TLJ. The full press conference shows him generally pretty jovial and at times, bouncing with energy / excitement to see the finished movie. The video I linked above is his demeanor directly afterwards…

.Val

pittrek said:

Back on topic : Mark Hamill’s reaction after the premiere https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwaCwFFs7qA

So did anyone else actually watch this? Skip to 1:24 for the actual video.

I get the feeling that Mark didn’t know he was being killed off until he watched it actually happen and on top of what he already thought about Luke’s character in this movie (he really didn’t like it), he looks absolutely floored as to what Rian Johnson has done to his character. He also looks ready to kill RJ at the end as RJ smirks to the press…

I feel so bad for Hamill.

.Val

Jay said:

Frink has been banned for the “asshole” thing. I’m going to be reviewing the thread myself in the coming days and will probably issue additional bans.

I haven’t seen the movie yet, so thanks guys.

Ask Jason to manage it? I believe he’s seen TLJ (sorry Jason 😛 )

.Val

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

One fear I have about the backlash against TLJ is that Lucasfilm might pull a WB/DC move and make overly reactionary decisions to “fix” things for IX and beyond instead of building on what worked. That was the major problem with both Suicide Squad and Justice League - instead of letting them both run their course and tweaking things from there on out, they made massive changes to both of them throughout production to respond to the criticisms of MoS, BvS, and SS (in the case of JL), resulting in the messy tonal whiplash of SS and the Frankenstein’s mosnter that was JL. I don’t want either of those things to happen with IX.

And before anyone claims that’s what happened with TLJ, it isn’t. TLJ was written and in (pre?) production before TFA even came out. If it was reactionary toward TFA, that was due to Johnson’s response to Abrams’ and Kasdan’s choices in VII, not the audience’s.

Considering the glowing critical reception and box office success, I doubt they’ll let a set of particularly loud fanboys change how they work.

Applying that logic, they are OT “fanboys” and you’re a TLJ “fanboy”?

Or maybe we could just leave the name calling out of it. As has been repeatedly stressed by mods in here - argue the point, don’t attack the person simply stating their opinion.

DominicCobb said:
I don’t know what it is, maybe I’m tired of all the time I spent defending TFA, but I honestly don’t even think I can bother with trying to respond to a lot of these negative reviews. Maybe it’s the volume, maybe I’m just shocked that there’s even such an outcry to begin with. Our takes on the film are just so different that I honestly don’t know how to bridge that gap, besides just hoping these people see the movie again and get out of it what I, and many others, did. It’s really something.

I’ve also been meaning to ask you for a bit about the above post earlier in this thread - why do you feel the need to defend TLJ by replying to every negative review? Is this not a “review and opinions” thread? I’m for civil discourse on varying opinions as much as the next reasonable person but your position seems to be that you feel obligated to actively fend off negative reviews of this movie, sometimes to the extent of really getting in people’s faces and almost aggressively singling them out when they’re just contributing their point of view to the thread.

I usually find your posts to be pretty good around here Dom but in this thread I’ve seen another side of you that isn’t very pretty.

.Val

TV’s Frink said:

Valheru_84 said:

Update on my ranking post TLJ viewing:

1. SW, TESB & ROTJ (original theatricals and DSEs)
2. TFA (theatrical, likely to be replaced by Hal’s fanedit)
3. R1 (theatrical)
4. ROTS (Kerr Fanedit “Dark Force Rising”)
5. TPM (Anti-cheese Fanedit)
6. AOTC (Anti-cheese Fanedit)
7. TLJ

.Val

I continue to be amazed that some people HATED this movie so much that they could actually put it last, behind three terribly made movies.

Unfortunately such is the case Frink 😕 If it wasn’t a Star Wars movie I would say it is well made with good production value and an ok story, probably a 7/10 for me. Seeing that it is episode 8 though, I can’t decide on a rating due actually liking parts but hating it as a whole and what it does to SW itself. I don’t hate the PTs which is why they sit above TLJ.

I am considering a second TLJ viewing to give it a chance in changing my mind on some of the matters and see if being less of a shock 2nd time round helps me to appreciate anything more, but I honestly don’t foresee it changing my opinion much.

.Val