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Valheru_84

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26-Apr-2017
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24-Apr-2019
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702

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Post
#1278637
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

NeverarGreat said:

yotsuya said:

I just found this and read the first post. I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off. Once they were in the air she did pretty good, but when you compare that to Luke, he flew his X-wing like a pro from the beginning.

Luke is the best stunt pilot in the outer rim territories, and has clearly been flying for years. And it’s notable that even he never does anything terribly flashy in the OT. Rey’s handling of the Falcon is about how you’d expect in the first few moments, but after that she successfully executes maneuvers far in excess of anything we’ve seen before. If anything, the contrast between almost crashing and ace-level piloting makes her abilities all the more noticeable.

Rey has to try things before she succeeds, pretty much the way Luke did. And she does have a teacher. She learns just about everything she does from Kylo Ren.

She has never seen Klyo use a Jedi mind trick or even successfully gain his desired information from interrogation, though she manages a successful and proper mind trick after a minute or two of trying.
She has never seen successful telekinesis or levitation, yet apparently learns this on the first attempt after only a moment of intention from Kylo. Interestingly, Kylo never indicates that he is aware of teaching Rey ‘You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!’ and Rey never acknowledges that she has gained knowledge from Kylo ‘The Force…’.

I’d still like to know who taught Luke to lift his lightsaber in TESB.

If only there was some sort of Jedi mentor which has been established to help Luke from beyond the grave, or a time jump of several years to help the audience suspend their disbelief. Or both.

Pretty much all of this ^

It’s amusing how people that defend TLJ accuse the detractors of cherry picking but then do exactly that themselves in defending it. Someone comments generally about Rey’s unbelievable command of a ship she’s never flown before (if she’s ever flown at all??) and so the defense is to post a gif of her crashing in the first few seconds…before she’s pulling flips and advanced manoeuvres in the middle of a star destroyer wreck?

Post
#1278577
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

ziggyonice said:
Didn’t she say something like that in The Last Jedi? Does any of her dialogue reference dreams or flashbacks or anything that might be edited to fit the context of the scene? Just trying to find ways to piece it together.

She says something like “in a dream” to Luke in regards to having seen the inside of the tree before where the original Jedi texts live. Not sure how you’d work it into the scene in question though and it’d feel a bit repetitive that she conveniently see’s all these things in her dreams.

Post
#1278143
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

pleasehello said:

Valheru_84 said:

Btw, am I the only one that had to do a double take at 1:17:47 and then google it when thinking that was Donald Sutherland standing on the ground in front of the trenches who raises up the binoculars? Only just noticed how much of a doppelganger that guy is for DS, so much so I thought it really might have been him as an extra for a little bit.

No. The first time I saw the movie I thought, “hell, that guy looks a lot like Donald Sutherland” even though I knew it wasn’t him. Now every time I watch the movie and that shot comes 'round I point out “Donald Sutherland” to my wife as a joke.

lol 😆

Post
#1278025
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

Btw, am I the only one that had to do a double take at 1:17:47 and then google it when thinking that was Donald Sutherland standing on the ground in front of the trenches who raises up the binoculars? Only just noticed how much of a doppelganger that guy is for DS, so much so I thought it really might have been him as an extra for a little bit.

Also the new VFX is very well done, I’m amazed at how well the throne room guards having lightsabers works, an instant improvement on the original and I find it far more threatening of a fight than with their original weapons. The one instance where the saber becomes a whip is a tad odd but it doesn’t really detract at all from the scene.

The fix to give Luke his green ROTJ saber during his standoff with Kylo is also well done though the close ups are a tad shakey (literally at times LOL) and it does almost appear more 2D than 3D so the effect isn’t perfect and could use some additional work (if possible, I’m not experienced in VFX one bit) but I imagine the overall affect is probably fairly convincing if you’re not expecting / looking for it.

Post
#1278024
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

Just finished watching the Clean Cut edit and I have to say I’m mighty impressed with what you’ve been able to achieve with it. I think with time I could even come to rather enjoy this edit as memories of the original fade and are replaced with this version. Probably the only things that I’d personally change would be to cut two small parts:

1:17:50 - The bit where the Resistance fighter tastes the ground, spits and says “salt”. This just reeks of the movie breaking the 4th wall to say to me “no no no, it’s not Hoth, not at all despite the endless similarities and copied/reused elements”. Even if you still showed him spitting and just cut him then saying “salt”, this would be a big improvement IMHO.

1:20:22-23 - I’ve got no issues seeing Rey gun down some Tie’s in the Falcon turret and am even ok with a “WOOO!” of exhilaration in the face of danger and coming to the rescue at the last second but I hate her then massive grin while she exclaims “I like this!” and think a cut at around this timestamp would greatly preserve the high stakes tension instead of a suddenly tonally off exuberant Rey while Resistance fighters are literally dieing beneath her by the second.

Now to watch your purist edition when I get another 1-2hrs. I’ve already viewed the changes as you know but feel I need to watch the edit in it’s entirety to see how I feel about it overall in comparison to this version.

Great work on this edit though! I think you definitely achieved what you set out to do and there’s really only a few niggles / minor annoyances that remain which is DRASTICALLY different to my view of the theatrical.

Post
#1277987
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

^ That works amazing well and actually gives the film a bit of breathing time for the audience after the big hits have just hit and seeing the character’s reactions and emotions.

Was very impressed with what Hal’s reconstructed edit was able to achieve and your one seems to be taking it to new un-imagined heights. Keep up the great work!

As a side question - How would you say your edit compares currently to Digmodification’s “Heir to the Force” TFA edit? His is highly recommended as a compatible companion edit to ForceGhostRecon’s TLJ “Clean Cut” or “Last of the Jedi” purist edition edits but your eventual edit sounds like it will be a strong contender as a definitive pick and it is already compatible with FGR’s edit as well due to your edit ending on the Falcon going to hyperspace.

Post
#1277918
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

If we’re going to beat that dead Taun Taun again, we should take further discussion elsewhere.

No probs though seeing she still has the saber and I assume the books from which she’s probably now read once and become the mightiest grand master jedi that ever lived, it still seems relevant though I did mean to initially post in the TLJ thread. I’m not really interested in going on about it though, I was just pointing out the “appropriated” Jedi texts to Dom when it clicked earlier tonight for some reason.

Post
#1277917
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

When exactly did Rey “steal” Luke/Anakin’s lightsaber. It was offered to her by Maz, and she rejected it. It was then given to Finn for a while, and then she picked it up to protect him (and herself) from Kylo. There’s the deleted scene where Maz gave it to Leia, who clearly let Rey keep it as she later traveled to Acho-To to return it to Luke, who promptly threw it away. At that point I’d say she has as much a right to keep it as anyone else.

“Steal” is I agree probably too strong a word. Acquire/keep without consent is more like it but doesn’t help Rey’s image. Regardless of what Maz said and what happened in between then and finding Luke, it’s been returned to it’s rightful owner who at no point actually gives her leave to take it. Just because he throws it away doesn’t automatically mean he’s happy for Rey or anyone else to just take it off the island and keep using it. The fact she wacks him over the head right before threatening him with his own saber that was his father’s before him is just all kinds of wrong. She then proceeds to keep it for herself without so much as a “by your leave” to Luke and also goes and just takes the Jedi texts at some point before flying away.

I’m not the one who wrote the story. Just pointing out what I see as factual wrong doings by Rey which affects her character in a negative way on top of a number of issues I already have with her.

Post
#1277911
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

Yoda can make freaking lightning strike a tree, so I presume he was cool with her taking the books.

I don’t understand this logic.

SilverWook said:
At least she didn’t pinch the saber while the original owner was slowly burning to death like that kleptomaniac Obi-Wan. 😉

Context is important. I feel like we’ve already covered this ground the last time we spoke about it.

nl0428 said:
I think that Rey took the sacred Jedi texts because, while Luke preserved them, he wasn’t putting any use to them. Rey is still young and has much to learn, despite having more patience than Luke did in the Original Trilogy.

I don’t doubt this but it still doesn’t change the circumstances. Stealing is stealing, no matter the justification.

Post
#1277883
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

She’s just indefinitely borrowing things that would otherwise gather dust.

I’ll remember that for when the authorities ask me about taking some rich guy’s classic supercar that has a layer of dust from never being driven 😉

Btw didn’t realise I’d posted that reply in here, it was meant to be in the TLJ review thread.

Post
#1277881
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

Post
#1277870
Topic
Last of the Jedi (Purist version of the Clean Cut)
Time

ForceGhostRecon said:

Valheru_84 said:

Just quickly played the start and end of this purist version so as to checkout the new additions from your clean cut. I like the new title and additions to the crawl but upon initial first viewing of the new edits I think a number of tweaks need to be made to improve the overall affect and effectiveness of a few scenes:

1 - I feel the sound of going into hyperspace starts too soon, such that it overrides the normal music shift you’re used to hearing in all SW movies as it nearly goes quiet before the camera begins panning down (with some flutes playing) to a planet / the start of the story. Maybe you could leave the crawl visible for another 2-3 seconds as it heads away from us before it fades away so that you’re not left staring at a blank star field for too long just waiting for the music to run it’s natural course before beginning the movie proper? I think it would also make the fade in to the music playing during the hyperspace intro much more seamless whereas currently it seems a bit sudden.

2 - I think saber handing back scene feels a bit off. For instance, it feels odd to see Rey suddenly standing so far away after seeing her step backwards in the close up and to then walk those 3-4 meters back to Luke again to take it from him with no noticeable reason to do so. I think it’s a bit obvious that a number of shots have been reused in a reversed state, so I think in this case maybe less is more in achieving the effect you’re going for. For example, in Ivan Ortega’s fix for this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aIxYInj0uo) I think he goes straight to showing Luke already holding the saber and then he seems to hold it outwards for a bit, indicating to Rey to take it which she then steps up and takes it before he storms past. I haven’t rewatched the entire video but I think this is more or less what he does.

I’m not suggesting to just copy Ivan as I think it is important to see Luke taking and staring at the saber for some time while he holds it as this gives the audience time to think as well on what thoughts and emotions must be going through Luke’s mind. Whether you could just remove the section where we see Rey standing well back, instead only seeing her stepping back a bit and then watching Luke’s reaction where Rey isn’t visible at all and then showing him hold the saber out to which we then see Rey step back up to take it? I know this will affect the timing of the music a bit but I think we are also missing a scene where we see her take the saber out of her bag and maybe this could be added back in to pad it back out to help with the timing? It does also feel odd after watching her walk the whole way there only holding her staff that she’s just suddenly holding it.

3 - The transition afterwards to the Resistance is nice but I feel it would be good to transition to showing their capital ship in orbit first before the camera begins to dive down through the fleeing transport ships. It feels a bit too sudden currently and seeing their capital ship instantly identifies who we’re about to see and what is happening (ie. the Resistance evacuating).

4 - The ending I feel needs the slow zoom out wide shot of everyone standing in the Millenium Falcon cut, instead having the close up of Leia and Rey lead straight into the hyperspace shot and the end music. Everyone in the wide shot just looks far too calm and relaxed chatting away with some even appearing happy after everything that just happened, like they’re at some kid’s birthday party instead of nearly just losing everything. It just feels so tonally off, whereas up to that point it was feeling a little sombre as it should be (though it should really feel a lot darker again), with Leia inserting the necessary touch of light to not have it feel completely hopeless (though her line “we have every we need” is again a bit tonally off and positivity overkill for the situation).

I hope to give your clean cut and this version a proper viewing sometime soon so I can provide some overall feedback but for now I just wanted to get those first impressions in and see what you and others thought.

Thanks for the feedback! I actually tweaked the intro a bit for the next version to smooth the crawl-to-hyperspace transition and added another clip with a falcon hyperspace flyby. Let’s see how it’s received now that i’ve spent a little more time on it.

I cut the capital ship flyby because it makes the establishing shot too long - it doesn’t feel natural. The transports flying by was dynamic and flowed better as a transition. It was enough for me to show they are escaping quickly.

As for Luke and Rey on the mountaintop… this is a really tough one. I’ve played with all available footage in so many different ways and there’s only so much that can be done here. I like Ivan’s approach, but even so, there is a clip after the hand-off, where Rey should be holding the saber and she clearly isn’t. The step back and step forward on Rey’s part is just necessary because when Luke is first holding the saber staring at Rey, she isn’t within 4-5 feet of him, so there is no way to keep her near him… the whole mountaintop scene is a shitshow imo, which is why i cut the whole thing in the clean cut. For the purists, I really tried my best to polish this turd…

As for the ending, this is just how i prefer it - no plans on tweaking this further

Yeah nice, will have to checkout the new intro once you’ve released it.

That makes sense regarding the original shot of the capital ship, though what if you transition to it literally as the camera is already starting to dive down so you still get the dynamic motion as well as a quick glimpse of the resistance capital ship before zooming down through the transports to the planet surface?

I agree and appreciate your efforts to improve the saber tossing scene and I think you could actually still improve on it if you were to simply cut from timestamps 4:19 to 4:26 as I don’t feel the footage between these times is needed to convey the same scene and also solves the standing distance issue. With that cut, we get to see Rey’s hand drop after handing Luke the saber and it’s natural to think that she’s stepped back a little (without needing to see it) in reverence and respect to Luke as he beholds his father’s long lost saber and so the next shot where it’s a semi-close up of Luke staring at his saber without Rey in the shot works perfectly fine. Then I think the reversed shot of him handing the saber back just needs to be duplicated with the part of her taking it trimmed off and then placed just before we see her step back up to then seeing her take it from his hands. This makes it evident that she steps up to take it because he’s been holding it out to her for a few seconds now from the additional shot and in between the cuts.

In my head at least this works a lot better and I think makes the scene play out more naturally. It’d be great if you could do a quick and dirty cobbled together edit for yourself just to see if these ideas work better as I feel that seeing now how you’ve now done it, I can actually see how it could work better and if I had the time and know how I’d try to cut together a rough example myself.

This is of course your edit so you’ve got to be happy with it in the end and so in saying that, fair enough on your ending 😃. I’m just hoping to pass on some feedback that I feel could improve your already great edits.

Post
#1277841
Topic
Last of the Jedi (Purist version of the Clean Cut)
Time

Just quickly played the start and end of this purist version so as to checkout the new additions from your clean cut. I like the new title and additions to the crawl but upon initial first viewing of the new edits I think a number of tweaks need to be made to improve the overall affect and effectiveness of a few scenes:

1 - I feel the sound of going into hyperspace starts too soon, such that it overrides the normal music shift you’re used to hearing in all SW movies as it nearly goes quiet before the camera begins panning down (with some flutes playing) to a planet / the start of the story. Maybe you could leave the crawl visible for another 2-3 seconds as it heads away from us before it fades away so that you’re not left staring at a blank star field for too long just waiting for the music to run it’s natural course before beginning the movie proper? I think it would also make the fade in to the music playing during the hyperspace intro much more seamless whereas currently it seems a bit sudden.

2 - I think saber handing back scene feels a bit off. For instance, it feels odd to see Rey suddenly standing so far away after seeing her step backwards in the close up and to then walk those 3-4 meters back to Luke again to take it from him with no noticeable reason to do so. I think it’s a bit obvious that a number of shots have been reused in a reversed state, so I think in this case maybe less is more in achieving the effect you’re going for. For example, in Ivan Ortega’s fix for this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aIxYInj0uo) I think he goes straight to showing Luke already holding the saber and then he seems to hold it outwards for a bit, indicating to Rey to take it which she then steps up and takes it before he storms past. I haven’t rewatched the entire video but I think this is more or less what he does.

I’m not suggesting to just copy Ivan as I think it is important to see Luke taking and staring at the saber for some time while he holds it as this gives the audience time to think as well on what thoughts and emotions must be going through Luke’s mind. Whether you could just remove the section where we see Rey standing well back, instead only seeing her stepping back a bit and then watching Luke’s reaction where Rey isn’t visible at all and then showing him hold the saber out to which we then see Rey step back up to take it? I know this will affect the timing of the music a bit but I think we are also missing a scene where we see her take the saber out of her bag and maybe this could be added back in to pad it back out to help with the timing? It does also feel odd after watching her walk the whole way there only holding her staff that she’s just suddenly holding it.

3 - The transition afterwards to the Resistance is nice but I feel it would be good to transition to showing their capital ship in orbit first before the camera begins to dive down through the fleeing transport ships. It feels a bit too sudden currently and seeing their capital ship instantly identifies who we’re about to see and what is happening (ie. the Resistance evacuating).

4 - The ending I feel needs the slow zoom out wide shot of everyone standing in the Millenium Falcon cut, instead having the close up of Leia and Rey lead straight into the hyperspace shot and the end music. Everyone in the wide shot just looks far too calm and relaxed chatting away with some even appearing happy after everything that just happened, like they’re at some kid’s birthday party instead of nearly just losing everything. It just feels so tonally off, whereas up to that point it was feeling a little sombre as it should be (though it should really feel a lot darker again), with Leia inserting the necessary touch of light to not have it feel completely hopeless (though her line “we have every we need” is again a bit tonally off and positivity overkill for the situation).

I hope to give your clean cut and this version a proper viewing sometime soon so I can provide some overall feedback but for now I just wanted to get those first impressions in and see what you and others thought.

Post
#1277524
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

So the fact that Palpy has been in nearly all the movies now in either person or referenced (& pending what IX reveals he may even get tied into 7 and 8 retrospectively), should we now call it “The Sith Lord Saga”?

Or maybe “Memoirs of a Dark Emperor” or “Palpy and the Skywalkers” or “Die Hard 9.0 - Palpy gets back!” 🤣

Post
#1276800
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

This sounds like an absolutely amazing edit and I am hopeful it might finally be the one that makes this movie not just watchable but potentially enjoyable and in doing that, able to possibly enjoy to an extent the ST again (pending home viewing review of IX). PM sent.

Quick question though - Did you end up inserting a new crawl title in the end? I agreed that “Last of the Jedi” sounded pretty good, I also think “Legacy of the Jedi” could work pretty well to as an alternative title. Did you actually change the crawl itself at all? If you didn’t know, there is a custom crawl creator tool getting around that I believe makes it very easy to insert your own and have it look completely legit.

Post
#1276784
Topic
Reimagining TLJ: Luke killed Rey's parents - I am turning my article into a fan edit with storyboarded scenes
Time

Hey TiMartyn,

I actually only read your TLJ analysis article earlier today (for anyone else interested: https://medium.com/@timothymably/the-last-jedi-is-poor-storytelling-d22e45427278) after finding it in your TFA/TLJ 48min edit thread. It is very well written and I couldn’t fault it in any way, it also gave me some new perspectives on why I just simply can’t stand the movie (not that I needed any more reasons but it’s interesting to get a better understanding of why I was so at odds with many elements of the story and characters).

I think ultimately Rian would have done a fine job directing the movie but he should never have been allowed to write it and the “trilogy” needed to actually be planned out as a proper trilogy with the big picture of it fitting within and respecting an existing saga always kept front and centre.

Logically I then followed up with reading your “Reimaginging The Last Jedi” article linked in here and I have to say that I am genuinely impressed with your alternate take on the story and how it vastly improves the characters in comparison to the actual movie. Reading your article, I could very much imagine myself watching the movie you describe and actually totally enjoying and buying into it all. There is a logical continuation of what happens in TFA while also making some shocking and properly subversive reveals that are consequential to the story at hand, rather than just for cheap comedic or “gotcha” moments.

More importantly, we learn more about what makes the characters, learning their past and what drives their motivations, emotionally investing us in their struggle. There is real progression and meaning behind events, we understand what the stakes are and root for our heroes to overcome the odds but are left at the end wondering how it will all play out in the final installment, as a middle installment should leave you feeling.

I do have to preface this part with the fact that I highly doubt any edit is ever going to manage to fix this movie for me (there’s just too much wrong with it) but all the same, your vision that you are striving for with this edit sounds extremely interesting and I think you have a very solid understanding of what was actually required to make this movie work for everyone or at least the vast majority (instead of just half the audience as Rian believes is the mark of his ideal movie) and I really hope you can pull off at least what you yourself hope to achieve with it.

So in saying that, I wish you all the best with your edit 😃

Val

Post
#1276483
Topic
STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>NOW IN PRODUCTION</strong>
Time

KurganX said:

So has Adywan decided that both the blu-ray prequel trilogy and Disney Star Wars are “canon” and his versions of OT will be brought more in line with them?

If so, then we don’t need to explain training, the Force just “gives” skills, abilities, etc. to whoever needs them (light or dark) when the time is right. Touching a lightsaber is enough to make you proficient with it against a master who has trained for decades. People can cut themselves off from the force and not use it for ages and then whip out a deus ex machina. And the Jedi knowledge fits on a small shelf of a few leather bound books, all those holocrons in the EU and “books” in the Jedi Archives were mostly technical manuals and poetry, I guess. Plot contrivances, characters acting inconsistently (even droids), and absurd coincidences, are all just “the will of the Force,” now. Even poor memories and incessant lying can be hand-waved away in this manner, at least that’s what we were told when TFA came out.

I hate TLJ myself and can no longer enjoy TFA as a result but where is ^ this coming from? What does it have to do with Ady’s edit or anything that has been said recently? Maybe if you quote a post or provide some context as to why you think Ady is shifting towards anything other than what he wants to do with his edit?

Post
#1275884
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

ray_afraid said:

Valheru_84 said:

^ I actually thought “fair enough” in the ranking and comments on the prequels

But:

OutboundFlight said:

  1. Attack of the Clones… this is everything that Star Wars represents.

No way that’s “fair”. 😄

It could be from someone’s “certain point of view” 😉

By saying fair enough, I’m agreeing that they could hold that view for reasons valid to them even if not so for myself.

I do understand the disbelief though 😛

Post
#1275883
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

OutboundFlight said:

Valheru_84 said:

^ I actually thought “fair enough” in the ranking and comments on the prequels, thinking you’d grown up with them and are one of the few prequel lovers on here brave enough to tell it from their perspective. But as soon as I saw the ANH ranking and first sentence I knew it was an AF joke 😉

This has spawned some non-joking discussion
I did grow up with the Prequels, with ROTS having a significant influence on me. I do enjoy the overall story of these films, but the acting, set design, and pacing kills it for me. As an adult, I can barely take some of the choices (I don’t like sand) as serious. Yet I enjoy the era. The PT books / shows / games have always been my favorite. Not that I’ve ever disliked the OT era- I’ve just always viewed the characters, planets, and conflicts of the prequels more interested.

So much era ranking would be:

  1. PT
  2. OT
  3. ST

While my actual film ranking is the April Fools one in reverse.

Yeah nice, though I could never rate any of the ST movies above any of the OT movies and the only way I could rate them even above the PT would be on a technical level (and maybe themes though I’m never given a reason to care for them) but the PT for me still rate well above the ST on story, characters (wooden acting and cheesy lines aside), emotional involvement and musical score among other things.

I also grew up on the prequels but that was in my teens and adolescent years after already growing up on the OT for many years beforehand and a few things already annoyed me about the PT and the list only grew when revisiting them as an adult, whereas the OT with some obvious faults still may as well be perfect to me now as they were when I was a child. With some great PT fan edits to hand now I still very much enjoy a watch through of them as well, especially since they’ve always held a place in my heart, cringe iducing warts and all.

I also greatly enjoyed a number of PT games on the PC at the time that I still have fond memories of playing with my brother and friends.

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#1273327
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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
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^ Cheers for the clarification Dom, though I guess I still don’t understand what you are trying to say then when talking about the force and Rey getting chosen over Ben. I assume your initial post was in response to the below part of my post where I was replying to RL:

Valheru_84 said:
Also I took Rey’s force pulling and catching the lightsaber in TFA as taking Kylo by surprise, especially with it already traveling in that direction it would only take a quick last second use of the force to alter it’s course to miss Kylo and go to Rey instead. It has nothing to do with the Force choosing Rey over Kylo as to who should have the saber, in my eyes THAT is plain silly and twists my concept of the force into something unrecognisable from what I grew up with from the OT.

DominicCobb said:
To clarify, what I meant is that the force has always had more meaning in the story than just as a plot device. There’s a metaphorical aspect to it as well. In the original film, the force represents Luke’s calling, and ultimately his potential to do great things. It’s not all about the literal interpretation. Luke turning off his targeting computer and acting on instinct is what lets him succeed in his mission. The literal interpretation here is that acting on instinct helps Luke better utilize the force. But the non-literal messaging is that Luke succeeds because he trusts in himself and his instincts. So the force is an agent for representing meaning in the film beyond the literal.

Hopefully this makes more sense now.

I understand what you’re saying above in your clarification but all of that is still derived from character actions, there is never a point where characters are directly affected by something the force is doing. Whereas the ST would have us believe that events are being influenced to some extent by the force which is completely counter to my understanding of it.

In dissecting your initial post to try and garner your intended point, I think I can now see that you’re simply saying the force is actually stronger in Rey during this scene which is why it goes to her instead (though I still just put it down to her hijacking Kylo’s in flight force pull, surprising him who didn’t consider her a threat in any way, especially seeing that they were in a stalemate trying to force pull the saber in TLJ) and that this is trying to say something about the two characters. But why is Rey stronger here? Why does that then mean that the saber and what it represents “belongs” to Rey? What do you actually see or understand in the movie that gives you this impression?

Your initial post still seems to somewhat support what RL is saying in that the force is influencing these events because you are attributing the decision to the force. If it’s an attempt by Rian to imply a metaphorical message then he has gone about it arse about which is why it doesn’t make sense to me.