Sign In

Valheru_84

User Group
Members
Join date
26-Apr-2017
Last activity
15-Aug-2019
Posts
761

Post History

Post
#1283139
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

Omni said:

This is kind of crazy to me. There are so many fair points to complain and discuss about on TLJ and people choose to stress over bombs? It’s not even a good nitpick. It’s so, for the lack of a better word, and apologies in advance if offending anyone, stupid. I don’t know what went through those people’s heads when watching the movie but I’m glad it didn’t happen in mine.

It is definitely a minor issue by itself but when combined with all the other issues, it becomes a bigger and recurring issue with the film (that the script isn’t really thought through all that well and is obviously the first draft of a single person, as Johnson himself stated…). That and it was brought up by Dom and other people trying to defend it, hence it being discussed.

Post
#1283137
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

dgraham414 said:

The bombs fell because the girl fell. Artificial gravity is within the bomber. She fell from the top of the bomber shaft to the bottom of it just like the bombs did. And once the bombs hit the vacuum of space there’s nothing to stop them from continuing their trajectory.

Except that it’s not nearly enough space for the bombs to reach terminal velocity or even the speed we do seem them dropping at outside of the ship. The top bombs would also have a higher exit speed than the ones below them that stop accelerating the second they enter space, causing the top ones to hit the below ones and possibly triggering a chain reaction explosion (since they’re already armed before launching), destroying the bomber instead of the target…or they push the ones below them sideways in various directions, causing them to go off target and potentially into friendly craft.

So without an actual launch system it’s an incredibly bad and dangerous design to be literally “dropping” bombs in space.

Post
#1283081
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

timdiggerm said:
(Never mind that the inside of the slug is a vertical shaft and they’re walking on the side of it)

You could say that due to the sheer size of the slug that where they landed inside it essentially oriented them straight down or near enough with the centre of the asteroid and so it would be no different than if they were standing on the surface if you drew a line straight upwards from their head. The asteroid could also have a much denser core, attributing for the level of gravity due to their closer proximity inside the slug.

There’s nothing in the movie to indicate any of this though so its pretty much just a standard old plot hole 😉

Post
#1283080
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

I was waiting for those scenes to be referrenced but didnt want to bloat my initial response with pre-emptive explanations to replies that may not be made.

Firstly, there is nothing showing that the Tie Bombers arent actually launching those bombs, especially since yes, the massive asteroid would have it’s own gravity but not anywhere near enough to make the bombs fall as fast as they do, so therefore one can assume they are propelled by some off-camera force. Whereas we are specifically shown the bombs “dropping” in TLJ with no indication of a self propulsion or launch system.

Secondly, yes once I was old enough to understand and actually thought about it one day, the cave scene certainly doesn’t stack up so well with their casual walk about and use of flimsy little plastic hospital oxygen masks. I think the fact that the space slug itself lives in the vacuum of space and there are “Mynocks” flying about inside speaks to some internal atmosphere the slug creates somehow which more or less accounts for the makeshift masks (this draws on what I said before about sci-fi loosely grounded in reality) but not for the gravity which is an oversight and inconsistent with the general depiction of space within Star Wars. I don’t think anyone claims the originals to be perfect and this is a minor slight at this stage where on first viewing, you’re more concerned with what the characters are concerned about after C3PO and Leia spot some unknown alien creatures through the windows.

In comparison (and I think the difference at least for me) my suspension of disbelief is already broken and trampled upon by the time the bombs drop in TLJ from the Hux prank call, his de-toothing by Snoke, the general and almost comical (if it wasn’t detracting from the story) incompetence of the First Order and BB8 plugging electrical shorts as if they were water leaks?

The thing about both of the above ESB scenes as well, is that despite their interpretations and any inherent inaccuracies, both are localised to the massive asteroid and so there is still a loose link of the gravity being generated by it that you can attribute it’s source to if you don’t over analyse it. Whereas the TLJ scene is literally in the middle of space away from the planet, so where is this origin of gravity and what determines it’s direction at any given time? These questions are readily apparent on first viewing without having to specifically think about the scenario.

Anyway, my main point I was initially making before we started comparing depictions of gravity in Star Wars is that I dont see how in anyway Luke falling into the garbage disposal tubes on Cloud City constitutes a plot hole, especially in comparison to the TLJ bomb drop which is such a plain and obvious issue to most people when the scene is set in space, no matter how loosely you want to link your own understanding of Star Wars physics to real life.

Post
#1283059
Topic
General Star Wars Random Thoughts Thread
Time

DominicCobb said:
I’d say there are quite a few things that fans complain about in TLJ are far easier to ‘just go with’ than this sequence. I mean just look at the falling bombs complaint, ESB has multiple instances of gravity in space.

So Dom, you’re comparing:

  • The unknown workings of a city’s garbage disposal system (that we get to see for a matter of seconds) where the main central shaft clearly narrows to an unseen point at the bottom (as seen from outside as well when approaching the city), creating a natural sloping surface to capture anything falling straight down and as Wook pointed out, there is clearly negative pressure or directed air currents to direct garbage or whatever they’re disposing off into one of these many groups of collection ducts (so it doesn’t just randomly smash against the inner sides of the shaft) that sucks Luke in, who then slides away some distance before falling through another tube and sliding some more distance and out of the external hatch.

to

  • Something clearly breaking the laws of basic physics (that we’ve known about and quantified for hundreds of years) in the absence of anything extra to give the audience a clue as to why it suddenly appears that there is Earth levels of gravity in space directly below the bomber, aimed at the Dreadnaught?

If they had actually shown that they’re propelled downwards by some type of ejector / launch system or it’s inferred there is some artificial gravity generation system normally used for ship decks but projected beneath the bomber to accelerate the bombs, then it would have been fine. The fact that they’re obviously making a call back to World War 2 bombers with defensive ball turrets who literally dropped bombs out of their underside bomb bay doors doesn’t help the scene as that’s the correlation you automatically make when they have to fly “over” the Dreadnaught to “drop” their bombs. Where if they were actually designed for space combat they literally could have flown straight down towards the top of the Dreadnaught and launched the bombs directly in front of them with their ships own momentum and at far greater speed.

These movies are built on loose sci-fi concepts with some grounding in our current understanding of physics so we have reference points to understand what is happening or extrapolate meaning from, but it’s when events are completely divorced from them with no other reason given that your mind says “hang on a minute…” regardless of the level of disbelief suspension (unless you’re already watching a movie who’s physics have been clearly established as different to ours).

Also there is this (watch to the end, trust me! XD): https://youtu.be/rCgRfqY8dzw

Post
#1282553
Topic
Star Wars: Ultimate Edition
Time

Charles Threepio said:

I don’t expect perfection with CGI people, mind. I just hope to make it look as good as the CGI Leia in Rogue One did, and many, including myself, believe she was handled better than Tarkin was (it helped her case that she only appeared in one brief scene at the end).

Leia in R1 is perfectly believable right up to the point where she speaks and we’re right back in uncanny valley again like with Tarkin.

Post
#1282089
Topic
THE LAST JEDI (REMANIED) - « NEVER SEEN BEFORE » CUT with NEW VFX
Time

Quite an interesting take on the start and pretty impressed on many of the edits which are rather bold and uncommon.

I think the brief ghost image of Vader’s melted helmet over Kylo’s helmet could be made a lot more convincing or done better. Maybe going into slow motion for that particular bit and then back to full speed after as he keeps smashing his helmet? That aside it is actually quite effective emotionally and a stroke of genius as to an insight to Kylo’s thoughts and feelings in that moment.

The other scene that obviously needs a lot of work still is the static images of the Resistance ships before we cut to Poe onboard - not convincing at all sorry if it was meant to be. I would reuse/repurpose existing footage for here. I think it also feels a little rushed in how quick Poe goes from being in the command room there to suddenly in his Xwing in front of the Dreadnaught.

Ive seen ForceGhostRecon’s edit and so I can already say that I really like many of the same VFX shots you included from his edit.

Will have to give the full edit a watch sometime to see what other interesting ways you have edited this movie. In the meantime, keep up the great work 😃

Post
#1281969
Topic
Star Wars: Remastered - A New Special Edition
Time

Just chiming in to say that I love your work Petrovelly but I have to agree with everyone regarding the opening Tantive scene. The pacing of how the scene unfolds in sync with the music is perfect and key to it’s effectiveness in the feelings it generates, setting the stage for the entire OT saga.

So being that it is your fan edit, I think you’ve already reached the crossroads where you need to decide ultimately what you’re trying to achieve (a graphically modernised version of the theatrical OR a modern take on the original that will take you on a slightly alternate journey) and what is more important to you (making yourself happy or the community happy with which you hope to share the edit with).

Ultimately it’s all your choice but it would help contributors a lot I think to clarify exactly what you’re aiming for and how people may help you get there. Your OP already does this but it feels like you’re already deviating from it somewhat and I can feel some light tug of war already going on with people explaining what could be better with the scene in respect to your original goals and yourself trying to explain how it’s actually what you want to do and how you see it as a good change but I think it’s at odds with what people are expecting.

Anyway, just my 2c and keep up the great work!

Post
#1281964
Topic
The Last Jedi- Full Movie Re-Edit
Time

stevepaynter said:

Valheru_84 said:

I haven’t been trying to defend him (outside of basic fairness) and even raised questions to him way back when he first started his patreon push as to the ethical and lawful issues with it and potential outfall to the larger fan editing community.

I also brought it to his attention when he was copping a fair bit of heat in this very thread, in the hope that he could come on here to explain his motives about the use of the money being essentially raised by a fan edit (hopefully more in line with what Ady does with all the funds going towards the edit, not to make a living…) and help smooth things over. Instead he simply cracked the shits and left, not trying in the least to understand anyone else’s point of view and concerns around territory everyone here shares to a greater or lesser extent with some commonly accepted ground rules so as not to endanger the great thing we do have going here (and other places).

Even after that I still felt he was going to finish and release his edit which he clearly has made with enough other people having posted videos on having watched a rough / unfinished version, though for the past 3-4 months even I have really started to doubt that it will ever be actually finished or released. He has actually said that the only thing holding up the edit now is the filming of and editing in the new Kylo vs Luke fight sequence which due to some issues, he is not sure now when that will be able to be done and so he actually announced he would be releasing the edit as is and releasing another version later on once the fight sequence edit was done. He has said this a couple of times now some months ago and still there is nothing nor any further word since. Being a fan edit, there is no actual reason that he HAS to release it, that is entirely his decision and he may end up deciding to keep it only for himself and maybe some close family and friends and there is nothing (normally) wrong with that.

The actual issue stems from the fact that he is now clearly using it to string viewers along and probably has for a long time, if not maybe from the very beginning itself though I think initially it was simply a passion project he wanted to share but as it grew into a bigger and bigger event it has changed his own view on the arrangement, wanting to get more himself out of his efforts and essentially turning the situation into preying on people’s feelings around TLJ and general interest in seeing a fan edit of it. What makes it especially bad and an ethical dilemma is that he is earning money from Youtube and Patreon because of it.

He is free of course to come on here and defend himself and try to justify everything that has happened but that ship has kind of already sailed anyway. Ultimately it would be nice for him to finish and release the edit as much for himself to finish the project as for all the people that joined him on the journey that started out so positive and hopeful. No one is forcing people to watch his videos (I stopped a couple of months back) but they were on board for a reason and that reason seems now nearly nonexistent while still being offered up as bait to continue generating income.

His next move will more or less define how he is remembered. Some examples that I can think of are as:

  • a fan editor who has a different interpretation and perspective on what is proper and allowable (still wrong but in his head it’s justified) and doesn’t cope well with the pressure, stress and expectation of the self inflicted publicity OR
  • a less than ethical fan editor who wants to be reimbursed for his time and efforts editing someone else’s property (though he’s always maintained that it will be freely available) OR
  • an outright scammer

You’re not paying attention. Only a few days ago Ivan put up a thumbnail in YouTube saying the edit was completed and to look out for it. It will be released by the end of the month.

Yes, I essentially already said in that very post that I had stopped paying attention (not watching his videos anymore from a couple of month’s back).

IF he actually releases it then good on him and I hope it’s everything he and everyone else hopes it to be. Still doesnt change how he’s gone about things and handled the resulting criticism directed at him.

Post
#1281861
Topic
The Last Jedi- Full Movie Re-Edit
Time

I haven’t been trying to defend him (outside of basic fairness) and even raised questions to him way back when he first started his patreon push as to the ethical and lawful issues with it and potential outfall to the larger fan editing community.

I also brought it to his attention when he was copping a fair bit of heat in this very thread, in the hope that he could come on here to explain his motives about the use of the money being essentially raised by a fan edit (hopefully more in line with what Ady does with all the funds going towards the edit, not to make a living…) and help smooth things over. Instead he simply cracked the shits and left, not trying in the least to understand anyone else’s point of view and concerns around territory everyone here shares to a greater or lesser extent with some commonly accepted ground rules so as not to endanger the great thing we do have going here (and other places).

Even after that I still felt he was going to finish and release his edit which he clearly has made with enough other people having posted videos on having watched a rough / unfinished version, though for the past 3-4 months even I have really started to doubt that it will ever be actually finished or released. He has actually said that the only thing holding up the edit now is the filming of and editing in the new Kylo vs Luke fight sequence which due to some issues, he is not sure now when that will be able to be done and so he actually announced he would be releasing the edit as is and releasing another version later on once the fight sequence edit was done. He has said this a couple of times now some months ago and still there is nothing nor any further word since. Being a fan edit, there is no actual reason that he HAS to release it, that is entirely his decision and he may end up deciding to keep it only for himself and maybe some close family and friends and there is nothing (normally) wrong with that.

The actual issue stems from the fact that he is now clearly using it to string viewers along and probably has for a long time, if not maybe from the very beginning itself though I think initially it was simply a passion project he wanted to share but as it grew into a bigger and bigger event it has changed his own view on the arrangement, wanting to get more himself out of his efforts and essentially turning the situation into preying on people’s feelings around TLJ and general interest in seeing a fan edit of it. What makes it especially bad and an ethical dilemma is that he is earning money from Youtube and Patreon because of it.

He is free of course to come on here and defend himself and try to justify everything that has happened but that ship has kind of already sailed anyway. Ultimately it would be nice for him to finish and release the edit as much for himself to finish the project as for all the people that joined him on the journey that started out so positive and hopeful. No one is forcing people to watch his videos (I stopped a couple of months back) but they were on board for a reason and that reason seems now nearly nonexistent while still being offered up as bait to continue generating income.

His next move will more or less define how he is remembered. Some examples that I can think of are as:

  • a fan editor who has a different interpretation and perspective on what is proper and allowable (still wrong but in his head it’s justified) and doesn’t cope well with the pressure, stress and expectation of the self inflicted publicity OR
  • a less than ethical fan editor who wants to be reimbursed for his time and efforts editing someone else’s property (though he’s always maintained that it will be freely available) OR
  • an outright scammer
Post
#1281850
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars films
Time

Jesta’ said:

Here’s my new list

  1. The Phantom Menace
  2. The Empire Strikes Back
  3. Return of the Jedi
  4. A New Hope
  5. Rogue One
  6. Attack of the Clones (It’s a great comedy)
  7. Revenge of the Sith
  8. The Clone Wars
  9. Battle for Endor
  10. Caravan of Courage
  11. Holiday Special
  12. The Forced Nostalgia
  13. The Last Johnson Movie

Not sure about the top half of your list (mostly just TPM ranking anywhere above the OT) but I definitely like your bottom half LOL!

Post
#1280363
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

R1 for me actually feels by far the most what a modernised and newer Star Wars film should look and feel like. Just add the crawl back in and fix a few things such as the scene transitions and removing the location cards and you’d be pretty much there for a perfect modern take on Star Wars post OT which isn’t that far removed from it visually.

I think the ST fully directed by Gareth Edwards with the overarching story written by one person with a number of contributing writers helping to review, sanity check and flesh out the individual scripts for each ST movie could have made for a far more compelling Star Wars experience and continuation of the OT we all love.

Post
#1280354
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

nl0428 said:

THE LAST JEDI:
He thought it was “beautifully made.”

OutboundFlight said:
Concerning the storytelling… that is up in the air, but Lucas at no point mentions it. Therefore his analysis is (once again) perfectly accurate- even if at first glance we think it translates into “I love it”.

IMG

C’mon even if you hate TLJ, that’s beautifully made.

That’s about the only positive thing I can say about the movie and I feel GL’s comment is definitely in the same vein. In conjunction with his “white slavers” comment I very much get the feeling he is none to happy with the direction they are taking the story (if you can call this soft reboot collage of recycled OT parts a story).

I think Rian probably did a good job directing it as well though he should never have been allowed to write it and saying it was well directed is not exactly a positive in the case that you hate the movie anyway…

“You sir did a masterful job in painting this life like rendition, but I must ask…where is the enjoyment in the painting being of a cow pattie? I mean the field setting looks nice and all and the setting sun adds some dramatic effect, but what were you hoping to achieve with a cow turd?”

Post
#1279422
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Hal 9000 said:

SilverWook said:

And you don’t think really wanting the character to die in the next movie isn’t a thinly veiled expression of anything else?

I certainly don’t. Movie logic ‘within the glass’ is very different from the real world. Horror movies play up our desire to see people with flaws pay the ultimate price for them. If characters like Jar Jar or Rose trigger this response, albeit unintentionally, that’s a fundamentally different thing IMO than real-world hate spewed toward the real people involved. (That could be addressed by the Internet’s larger tendency to give people’s darker sides a loudspeaker through anonymity.)

^ This. Also if you hate a particular character in a movie/franchise you otherwise like, probably the easiest exit from the story for that character with little chance of coming back is for that character to be killed off.

For me, I dont see Rose as needing to die, I just would have preferred that she wasnt in Star Wars in the first place and now because of my lack of care about IX, I couldnt care less what they do with her character.

I can definitely see how some people might veil their true intentions and feelings by attacking an actor indirectly through their character but I can also see people simply hating such a character and wishing they would die so as to conclusively remove them from the story (except of course if youre a Jedi post Qui-Gon 😉 ). I can see both sides of the coin and how one might need to observe someone for a while to try and determine which side they might be using, hence why youre keeping tabs on their Rose related posts Silverwook 😉

Post
#1279064
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

I’m not saying it is a God, you can still interpret the Force as just a non-sentient system of nature that seeks to maintain balance. Force-users are conduits of the Force, and Force-users who allow the Force to act through them will naturally have the Force on their side.

“seeks to maintain balance” and “allow the Force to act through them” is still ascribing some form of decision making thought process to what is supposed to just be an energy field that links everything together.

RogueLeader said:
I feel like you can only see the Force in two ways: either it is a conscious, dynamic entity that guides people or a unconscious, static power source that Force-users draw their abilities from. But it isn’t that black and white. The Force isn’t that simple. It can be an energy field, but also have a will of its own, but it doesn’t necessarily make it conscious or unconscious. Am I making any sense?

Are you talking generally or that I personally can only see it two ways? Because in that case, I actually only see it one way which is as described and demonstrated in the OT and anything that clashes with that or has no logical reason as to why it suddenly works differently is going to make me strongly balk at accepting it.

Are you making sense? No as I don’t understand how an energy field can have a will of it’s own. It simply exists and any “output” it may have is always generated from an “input” at the same place or elsewhere. It is literal cause and effect and without force sensitive people around to tap into it, you would never know it is there nor ever see anything affected by it. Anything perceived as a “will of the Force” would be solely from external influences not known to those witnessing such an event (such as Snoke connecting Rey and Kylo without their knowledge, with Kylo initially asking “why is the Force connecting us like this?”).

RogueLeader said:
I think it is a bit of a mistake to think we understand the rules of the Force or what it exactly is. I think being set in one’s interpretation of the Force is exactly how the Jedi of the prequels lost their way.

I don’t think that we fully understand the Force ourselves except obviously what we are shown and told within the movies. I also am open to it changing, but only in the sense that it builds upon and logically respects what we already know and has come before it in previous movies.

RogueLeader said:
EDIT:
Just to add on to what I’m trying to say, check out this interview George Lucas did back in 1999. They really get into why George wanted to create the Force in Star Wars and what he wanted the audience, especially young people, to get from it.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,23298-2,00.html

Yeah good interview (although one always wonders with George how much what he is saying in the moment has changed from the original conception and implementation) though it doesn’t change my understanding of the Force, in fact it pretty much lines up with what I said above. It might be meant to make young people of the day think about spirituality and maybe believe in some higher power (specifically God as GL puts it) but that’s all the Force is and the OT never ascribes any sort of actual god like attributes to the Force. I was brought up a christian myself (but now sit somewhere between Agnosticism and Ietsism) and the Force does line up that way in requiring faith to believe it exists but it never places any kind of central focus as to the source or will of such a force.

The fact Obiwan describes it as an energy field that is essentially everywhere means it is formless and thoughtless, it’s a natural phenomenon of the Star Wars galaxy that is without agency or purpose, it simply exists and can be used by people sensitive to it’s nature that does require faith and belief in something that can’t be seen or scientifically detected yet and is where George represents the mystery and higher power that religions also share but without actually defining the Force in such a fashion.

I feel that the story board and writer directors of the ST have misunderstood GL’s intention and thought process behind the Force, instead taking a more literal meaning from some of his comments and made the mistake in trying to bring in more religious elements and give the Force some agency as lazy ways to explain why Rey suddenly has these powers and isn’t held to the same rules as everyone else in the saga previously have been.

Post
#1278928
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:
The Sequel Trilogy is basically if you combined the Legend of King Arthur with the story of Joan of Arc.

Joan (Rey) is chosen by God (the Force), given a special sword, and goes on a journey to save the land. Joan was just a farm girl, but she goes on to win battles even though she has no military training. Do we call Joan a Mary Sue? If God did not have a presence in the story, sure, but Joan has been chosen by God because of her piety and faith. It is her faith that gives her her power. Rey is a great comparison, in my opinion.

And this is where you start to lose me. The force is not a god, it doesn’t have a consciousness or the ability to divinely intervene in the events of the galaxy. It is simply a force that is generated and exists between all living things and binds the galaxy together. Your example works as an analogy but falls apart as soon as you try to actually apply it to Star Wars as we know (or knew) it.

RogueLeader said:
To me, the Force, even in the OT, is meant to be a spiritual thing where faith and belief were fundamental to its identity. The Force is much more like God, or the Tao, rather than a system of magic from an RPG. That’s what George always meant for it to be.

Fair enough and I know George has made reference to it in the past of it being like a religion but only in it’s most basic form, so much as with what you just said - it’s on a spiritual and faith like level but that’s where it ends. It’s actual reality is bound to the physics of cosmic energy and living beings that have discovered and learn to tap it revere it in an almost religion like fashion simply because they do not yet actually understand it, not to a scientific extent anyway. They understand on a basic level of how they use it and what observable effects it has on the observable world but they fill many gaps they still have with assumptions and idealised concepts of what it all means.