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Valheru_84

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Post
#1278926
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

I just don’t agree that the she has to have some kind of lineage. I mean hell, Palpatine is a great example. Palpatine came from average parents, at least in Legends, not sure in canon, but he became the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Yeah, maybe bloodline can predispose people to have an already innate connection with the Force, but it doesn’t mean incredible talent can come from nowhere. And people bring up the fact that most great Jedi in Star Wars history did not have Jedi parents, but the whole point of Rey being a nobody is to show how anyone can be a hero even among legends. So to me it isn’t the same as just having a new hero in a new story with all new characters.

I believe you’re replying to my post before the below one which explains more thoroughly what I was getting at and in essence, I agree with you. The issue isn’t that she HAS to come from lineage because of how I understand how Star Wars works (which isn’t the case anyway), the issue is with just having her power level and abilities all come to fruition within a matter of days / weeks and having some lineage to lean on logically helps somewhat explain away the lack of reasons and justification so far.

Valheru_84 said:
No where did I say that due to Rey’s power level and command of the force that all force users should have to inherit it. Ive always understood from the get go in the OT that anyone can use the force and its a combination of your own force sensitivity and effort dedicated to learning to harness it that ultimately defines to what extent your power and control of the force will reach. Like everything though that is derived from your own organic being, force sensitivity is a biological trait that can be passed on and changed depending on who you make your kid/s with.

So there’s absolutely no reason why someone with no bilogical ties at all to any of the current powerful force users could not also reach or surpass those same levels. But in Rey’s case, without the necessary training over some dynamic but not insignificant time, there has to be some logical reason to how she got this immense power and control in the force and having parents who are renowned for being strong in the force goes a long way to explaining this with the timeframe we’ve actually been given. It doesn’t go all the way though which is why I suggested that her powers also be dangerously unwieldy and at times random since without training she shouldn’t have a clue as to what she’s doing which actually gives her a reason to find Luke or join Snoke or Kylo. It would also have actually given some more interest and dynamics to her character, maybe even helped give her a proper arc.

Post
#1278921
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

You guys always take it to extremes that make it sound ridiculous and actually misses the point being made.

No where did I say that due to Rey’s power level and command of the force that all force users should have to inherit it. Ive always understood from the get go in the OT that anyone can use the force and its a combination of your own force sensitivity and effort dedicated to learning to harness it that ultimately defines to what extent your power and control of the force will reach. Like everything though that is derived from your own organic being, force sensitivity is a biological trait that can be passed on and changed depending on who you make your kid/s with.

So there’s absolutely no reason why someone with no bilogical ties at all to any of the current powerful force users could not also reach or surpass those same levels. But in Rey’s case, without the necessary training over some dynamic but not insignificant time, there has to be some logical reason to how she got this immense power and control in the force and having parents who are renowned for being strong in the force goes a long way to explaining this with the timeframe we’ve actually been given. It doesn’t go all the way though which is why I suggested that her powers also be dangerously unwieldy and at times random since without training she shouldn’t have a clue as to what she’s doing which actually gives her a reason to find Luke or join Snoke or Kylo. It would also have actually given some more interest and dynamics to her character, maybe even helped give her a proper arc.

Post
#1278920
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

LordZerome1080 said:

oojason said:

Valheru_84 said:

NeverarGreat said:

yotsuya said:

I just found this and read the first post. I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off. Once they were in the air she did pretty good, but when you compare that to Luke, he flew his X-wing like a pro from the beginning.

Luke is the best stunt pilot in the outer rim territories, and has clearly been flying for years. And it’s notable that even he never does anything terribly flashy in the OT. Rey’s handling of the Falcon is about how you’d expect in the first few moments, but after that she successfully executes maneuvers far in excess of anything we’ve seen before. If anything, the contrast between almost crashing and ace-level piloting makes her abilities all the more noticeable.

Rey has to try things before she succeeds, pretty much the way Luke did. And she does have a teacher. She learns just about everything she does from Kylo Ren.

She has never seen Klyo use a Jedi mind trick or even successfully gain his desired information from interrogation, though she manages a successful and proper mind trick after a minute or two of trying.
She has never seen successful telekinesis or levitation, yet apparently learns this on the first attempt after only a moment of intention from Kylo. Interestingly, Kylo never indicates that he is aware of teaching Rey ‘You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!’ and Rey never acknowledges that she has gained knowledge from Kylo ‘The Force…’.

I’d still like to know who taught Luke to lift his lightsaber in TESB.

If only there was some sort of Jedi mentor which has been established to help Luke from beyond the grave, or a time jump of several years to help the audience suspend their disbelief. Or both.

Pretty much all of this ^

It’s amusing how people that defend TLJ accuse the detractors of cherry picking but then do exactly that themselves in defending it. Someone comments generally about Rey’s unbelievable command of a ship she’s never flown before (if she’s ever flown at all??) and so the defense is to post a gif of her crashing in the first few seconds…before she’s pulling flips and advanced manoeuvres in the middle of a star destroyer wreck?

Cherrypicking? The gif was posted in response to this post…

yotsuya said:

I just found this and read the first post. I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off. Once they were in the air she did pretty good, but when you compare that to Luke, he flew his X-wing like a pro from the beginning. Rey has to try things before she succeeds, pretty much the way Luke did. And she does have a teacher. She learns just about everything she does from Kylo Ren. I’d still like to know who taught Luke to lift his lightsaber in TESB.

… as quoted in my post with the gif.
 

I don’t think that’s cherrypicking - the first line of yotsuya’s post ‘I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off.’

Seems the gif represents that quite well, yes?

I wasn’t replying to KurganX’s opening post - nor ‘defending’ TLJ - just highlighting what actually occurred in the film - as yotsuya mentioned.

Wow.
 

Where in the posts your replying to do they mention your name? He’s saying people in general.

I was making a comment in general but using a specific example within the same thread. That post was in response to another’s that also falls under the point I’m making, in that they’re scoffing at the OP’s comment due to a few seconds of Rey bumping along the ground, as if that justifies the immediate following minutes of footage of Rey expertly piloting the Falcon through ridiculously small spaces as if she’d been flying it for years. Some of the manoeuvres she pulls off during this sequence can be equated to requiring skills shown by massively experienced and skilled fighter and acrobatic jet pilots here on Earth that pull insane manouevers in either combat training or airshows, the literal best pilots of all of humanity.

So choosing to point at the few seconds where she metaphorically “stumbles” as reason and justification to discredit and laugh off the OP’s argument is cherry picking as far as I’m concerned. From all the available data they pick this tiny portion to pin up as the reason why the OP’s argument is both wrong and silly in their view while ignoring the context that all the other data brings to the overall picture.

I chose the gif post as an example as it reinforces the cherry picked example while talking snidely as if to a confident about how obviously wrong the OP is and joining in on the scoffing with quite the condescending tone if you ask me…

Post
#1278914
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Rey being a nobody is the one ‘twist’ that actually worked in TLJ, so that would be a nah from me.

I would have been completely fine with her being a nobody if there were valid reasons and demonstrations as to how she became so powerful and proficient in the force over the course of a week or two.

Because they dont, she needs SOME sort of lineage to help explain it but even then its pretty weak sauce though it could have worked well in conjunction with her instead having raw and untrained power that is unwieldly and actually dangerous to both foe and friends and she needs the training and discipline that either Luke, Snoke or Kylo could give her to help her learn to control it.

The arguments of “what the ST needs” dont wash with me as its at the expense of the OT and those that understand its universe rules as a result of having watched it for the past 40+ years. If they want to change them and how the force works, there has to be real justification that makes sense and retains context to the original rules. They don’t just get to say “this is how it works now” and leave it at that, they have to earn the changes.

Post
#1278820
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

When the analysis is longer than the movie, I have to wonder if that way lies madness. Even the loony Room 237 is shorter than The Shining itself!

Not at all and when a movie has this many issues and on so many levels (whether you agree or not that it does is beside the point since its the opinion of the reviewer that determines the video content), the analysis is bound to be longer than the movie itself. It all just depends on how thorough you want to be in breaking it down on screen, explaining it for those who the issue may not be apparent for and how this makes you arrive at the opinion you hold.

Post
#1278815
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

No probs RL and yes 3hrs is still a long watch but if youve watched any of the Red Letter Media Plinkett reviews then it’s nothing out of the norm. Its also structured and broken up enough that its not just one massive slog.

Most of his issues seem pretty straight forward and logical to me, some I’m sure are also added just for laughs as a lot of the video is tongue in cheek and playing up the Plinkett grandson character.

If you’re someone though that likes or loves the movie and cant listen to valid criticisms without getting angry then you’re not likely to find any of it funny and I’d probably recommend you don’t watch it. (That’s more of a general statement for anybody looking to watch them)

Post
#1278806
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I think this very well made two part review and critical analysis of TLJ is all that will ever need to be said about the movie and it’s list of failings which at this point doesn’t seem to even have an end in sight. It’s in the vein of the RLM reviews with the reviewer even affecting the same Plinkett drawl and similar humour while claiming to be his grandson:

Part 1: https://youtu.be/9Ugp8F7KefE

Part 2: https://youtu.be/yKT2LFtjI24

It is lengthy though no where near Mauler’s 3 part 5hr+ marathon which is great but a lot of time to sink into the deconstruction of a movie and the level that Mauler take’s it to nearly loses it relevancy anyway.

Post
#1278637
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

NeverarGreat said:

yotsuya said:

I just found this and read the first post. I had to laugh at the idea that Rey flew the Falcon so well. She practically crashed the thing trying to take off. Once they were in the air she did pretty good, but when you compare that to Luke, he flew his X-wing like a pro from the beginning.

Luke is the best stunt pilot in the outer rim territories, and has clearly been flying for years. And it’s notable that even he never does anything terribly flashy in the OT. Rey’s handling of the Falcon is about how you’d expect in the first few moments, but after that she successfully executes maneuvers far in excess of anything we’ve seen before. If anything, the contrast between almost crashing and ace-level piloting makes her abilities all the more noticeable.

Rey has to try things before she succeeds, pretty much the way Luke did. And she does have a teacher. She learns just about everything she does from Kylo Ren.

She has never seen Klyo use a Jedi mind trick or even successfully gain his desired information from interrogation, though she manages a successful and proper mind trick after a minute or two of trying.
She has never seen successful telekinesis or levitation, yet apparently learns this on the first attempt after only a moment of intention from Kylo. Interestingly, Kylo never indicates that he is aware of teaching Rey ‘You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the Force!’ and Rey never acknowledges that she has gained knowledge from Kylo ‘The Force…’.

I’d still like to know who taught Luke to lift his lightsaber in TESB.

If only there was some sort of Jedi mentor which has been established to help Luke from beyond the grave, or a time jump of several years to help the audience suspend their disbelief. Or both.

Pretty much all of this ^

It’s amusing how people that defend TLJ accuse the detractors of cherry picking but then do exactly that themselves in defending it. Someone comments generally about Rey’s unbelievable command of a ship she’s never flown before (if she’s ever flown at all??) and so the defense is to post a gif of her crashing in the first few seconds…before she’s pulling flips and advanced manoeuvres in the middle of a star destroyer wreck?

Post
#1278577
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

ziggyonice said:
Didn’t she say something like that in The Last Jedi? Does any of her dialogue reference dreams or flashbacks or anything that might be edited to fit the context of the scene? Just trying to find ways to piece it together.

She says something like “in a dream” to Luke in regards to having seen the inside of the tree before where the original Jedi texts live. Not sure how you’d work it into the scene in question though and it’d feel a bit repetitive that she conveniently see’s all these things in her dreams.

Post
#1278143
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

pleasehello said:

Valheru_84 said:

Btw, am I the only one that had to do a double take at 1:17:47 and then google it when thinking that was Donald Sutherland standing on the ground in front of the trenches who raises up the binoculars? Only just noticed how much of a doppelganger that guy is for DS, so much so I thought it really might have been him as an extra for a little bit.

No. The first time I saw the movie I thought, “hell, that guy looks a lot like Donald Sutherland” even though I knew it wasn’t him. Now every time I watch the movie and that shot comes 'round I point out “Donald Sutherland” to my wife as a joke.

lol 😆

Post
#1278025
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

Btw, am I the only one that had to do a double take at 1:17:47 and then google it when thinking that was Donald Sutherland standing on the ground in front of the trenches who raises up the binoculars? Only just noticed how much of a doppelganger that guy is for DS, so much so I thought it really might have been him as an extra for a little bit.

Also the new VFX is very well done, I’m amazed at how well the throne room guards having lightsabers works, an instant improvement on the original and I find it far more threatening of a fight than with their original weapons. The one instance where the saber becomes a whip is a tad odd but it doesn’t really detract at all from the scene.

The fix to give Luke his green ROTJ saber during his standoff with Kylo is also well done though the close ups are a tad shakey (literally at times LOL) and it does almost appear more 2D than 3D so the effect isn’t perfect and could use some additional work (if possible, I’m not experienced in VFX one bit) but I imagine the overall affect is probably fairly convincing if you’re not expecting / looking for it.

Post
#1278024
Topic
The Last Jedi - Clean cut edition
Time

Just finished watching the Clean Cut edit and I have to say I’m mighty impressed with what you’ve been able to achieve with it. I think with time I could even come to rather enjoy this edit as memories of the original fade and are replaced with this version. Probably the only things that I’d personally change would be to cut two small parts:

1:17:50 - The bit where the Resistance fighter tastes the ground, spits and says “salt”. This just reeks of the movie breaking the 4th wall to say to me “no no no, it’s not Hoth, not at all despite the endless similarities and copied/reused elements”. Even if you still showed him spitting and just cut him then saying “salt”, this would be a big improvement IMHO.

1:20:22-23 - I’ve got no issues seeing Rey gun down some Tie’s in the Falcon turret and am even ok with a “WOOO!” of exhilaration in the face of danger and coming to the rescue at the last second but I hate her then massive grin while she exclaims “I like this!” and think a cut at around this timestamp would greatly preserve the high stakes tension instead of a suddenly tonally off exuberant Rey while Resistance fighters are literally dieing beneath her by the second.

Now to watch your purist edition when I get another 1-2hrs. I’ve already viewed the changes as you know but feel I need to watch the edit in it’s entirety to see how I feel about it overall in comparison to this version.

Great work on this edit though! I think you definitely achieved what you set out to do and there’s really only a few niggles / minor annoyances that remain which is DRASTICALLY different to my view of the theatrical.

Post
#1277987
Topic
The Force Awakens - The Starlight Project
Time

^ That works amazing well and actually gives the film a bit of breathing time for the audience after the big hits have just hit and seeing the character’s reactions and emotions.

Was very impressed with what Hal’s reconstructed edit was able to achieve and your one seems to be taking it to new un-imagined heights. Keep up the great work!

As a side question - How would you say your edit compares currently to Digmodification’s “Heir to the Force” TFA edit? His is highly recommended as a compatible companion edit to ForceGhostRecon’s TLJ “Clean Cut” or “Last of the Jedi” purist edition edits but your eventual edit sounds like it will be a strong contender as a definitive pick and it is already compatible with FGR’s edit as well due to your edit ending on the Falcon going to hyperspace.

Post
#1277918
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

If we’re going to beat that dead Taun Taun again, we should take further discussion elsewhere.

No probs though seeing she still has the saber and I assume the books from which she’s probably now read once and become the mightiest grand master jedi that ever lived, it still seems relevant though I did mean to initially post in the TLJ thread. I’m not really interested in going on about it though, I was just pointing out the “appropriated” Jedi texts to Dom when it clicked earlier tonight for some reason.

Post
#1277917
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

When exactly did Rey “steal” Luke/Anakin’s lightsaber. It was offered to her by Maz, and she rejected it. It was then given to Finn for a while, and then she picked it up to protect him (and herself) from Kylo. There’s the deleted scene where Maz gave it to Leia, who clearly let Rey keep it as she later traveled to Acho-To to return it to Luke, who promptly threw it away. At that point I’d say she has as much a right to keep it as anyone else.

“Steal” is I agree probably too strong a word. Acquire/keep without consent is more like it but doesn’t help Rey’s image. Regardless of what Maz said and what happened in between then and finding Luke, it’s been returned to it’s rightful owner who at no point actually gives her leave to take it. Just because he throws it away doesn’t automatically mean he’s happy for Rey or anyone else to just take it off the island and keep using it. The fact she wacks him over the head right before threatening him with his own saber that was his father’s before him is just all kinds of wrong. She then proceeds to keep it for herself without so much as a “by your leave” to Luke and also goes and just takes the Jedi texts at some point before flying away.

I’m not the one who wrote the story. Just pointing out what I see as factual wrong doings by Rey which affects her character in a negative way on top of a number of issues I already have with her.

Post
#1277911
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

Yoda can make freaking lightning strike a tree, so I presume he was cool with her taking the books.

I don’t understand this logic.

SilverWook said:
At least she didn’t pinch the saber while the original owner was slowly burning to death like that kleptomaniac Obi-Wan. 😉

Context is important. I feel like we’ve already covered this ground the last time we spoke about it.

nl0428 said:
I think that Rey took the sacred Jedi texts because, while Luke preserved them, he wasn’t putting any use to them. Rey is still young and has much to learn, despite having more patience than Luke did in the Original Trilogy.

I don’t doubt this but it still doesn’t change the circumstances. Stealing is stealing, no matter the justification.

Post
#1277883
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Valheru_84 said:

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

She’s just indefinitely borrowing things that would otherwise gather dust.

I’ll remember that for when the authorities ask me about taking some rich guy’s classic supercar that has a layer of dust from never being driven 😉

Btw didn’t realise I’d posted that reply in here, it was meant to be in the TLJ review thread.

Post
#1277881
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:
What I’m getting is, Rey needs to be jailed in IX for theft. Let’s Make Star Wars Pointlessly Pedantic About Possesions and Inheritance! That’s what the series has always needed. Can’t wait for the climactic court case where Kylo Ren claims ownership of the Falcon.

Valheru_84 said:
It is not my intent to be overly literal and logical about it all (it’s just how my thought process works), my initial feeling that Rey didn’t have the right to just take the saber from Luke was just that - a feeling, which contributed to my dislike for the character. It is only in discussing and trying to explain it that I am looking deeper myself and laying out my detailed perspective on why I happen to see it this way, often in response to simplistic replies that seem to brush it aside as nothing of consequence despite it having an impact on the judgement of Rey’s moral fibre (which is why I also tie the matter into her physical abuse of Luke and threatening him with the saber which at this point is not even her’s to use).

Hey Dom…you remember how I made that point a while back how I felt that Rey had no right to take Luke’s lightsaber that he inherited from his father? - I’d completely forgotten that Rey also took the original Jedi texts! So while there are some shades of grey and certain points of view (if you will) that can be debated about the whole saber matter, I think the Jedi texts are pretty much a clear cut 2nd example of Rey’s tendency to just take things that don’t belong to her (ie. stealing). Whatever justifications can be made that do ring true, it doesn’t change the circumstances under which she took things that weren’t hers to take.

Post
#1277870
Topic
Last of the Jedi (Purist version of the Clean Cut)
Time

ForceGhostRecon said:

Valheru_84 said:

Just quickly played the start and end of this purist version so as to checkout the new additions from your clean cut. I like the new title and additions to the crawl but upon initial first viewing of the new edits I think a number of tweaks need to be made to improve the overall affect and effectiveness of a few scenes:

1 - I feel the sound of going into hyperspace starts too soon, such that it overrides the normal music shift you’re used to hearing in all SW movies as it nearly goes quiet before the camera begins panning down (with some flutes playing) to a planet / the start of the story. Maybe you could leave the crawl visible for another 2-3 seconds as it heads away from us before it fades away so that you’re not left staring at a blank star field for too long just waiting for the music to run it’s natural course before beginning the movie proper? I think it would also make the fade in to the music playing during the hyperspace intro much more seamless whereas currently it seems a bit sudden.

2 - I think saber handing back scene feels a bit off. For instance, it feels odd to see Rey suddenly standing so far away after seeing her step backwards in the close up and to then walk those 3-4 meters back to Luke again to take it from him with no noticeable reason to do so. I think it’s a bit obvious that a number of shots have been reused in a reversed state, so I think in this case maybe less is more in achieving the effect you’re going for. For example, in Ivan Ortega’s fix for this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aIxYInj0uo) I think he goes straight to showing Luke already holding the saber and then he seems to hold it outwards for a bit, indicating to Rey to take it which she then steps up and takes it before he storms past. I haven’t rewatched the entire video but I think this is more or less what he does.

I’m not suggesting to just copy Ivan as I think it is important to see Luke taking and staring at the saber for some time while he holds it as this gives the audience time to think as well on what thoughts and emotions must be going through Luke’s mind. Whether you could just remove the section where we see Rey standing well back, instead only seeing her stepping back a bit and then watching Luke’s reaction where Rey isn’t visible at all and then showing him hold the saber out to which we then see Rey step back up to take it? I know this will affect the timing of the music a bit but I think we are also missing a scene where we see her take the saber out of her bag and maybe this could be added back in to pad it back out to help with the timing? It does also feel odd after watching her walk the whole way there only holding her staff that she’s just suddenly holding it.

3 - The transition afterwards to the Resistance is nice but I feel it would be good to transition to showing their capital ship in orbit first before the camera begins to dive down through the fleeing transport ships. It feels a bit too sudden currently and seeing their capital ship instantly identifies who we’re about to see and what is happening (ie. the Resistance evacuating).

4 - The ending I feel needs the slow zoom out wide shot of everyone standing in the Millenium Falcon cut, instead having the close up of Leia and Rey lead straight into the hyperspace shot and the end music. Everyone in the wide shot just looks far too calm and relaxed chatting away with some even appearing happy after everything that just happened, like they’re at some kid’s birthday party instead of nearly just losing everything. It just feels so tonally off, whereas up to that point it was feeling a little sombre as it should be (though it should really feel a lot darker again), with Leia inserting the necessary touch of light to not have it feel completely hopeless (though her line “we have every we need” is again a bit tonally off and positivity overkill for the situation).

I hope to give your clean cut and this version a proper viewing sometime soon so I can provide some overall feedback but for now I just wanted to get those first impressions in and see what you and others thought.

Thanks for the feedback! I actually tweaked the intro a bit for the next version to smooth the crawl-to-hyperspace transition and added another clip with a falcon hyperspace flyby. Let’s see how it’s received now that i’ve spent a little more time on it.

I cut the capital ship flyby because it makes the establishing shot too long - it doesn’t feel natural. The transports flying by was dynamic and flowed better as a transition. It was enough for me to show they are escaping quickly.

As for Luke and Rey on the mountaintop… this is a really tough one. I’ve played with all available footage in so many different ways and there’s only so much that can be done here. I like Ivan’s approach, but even so, there is a clip after the hand-off, where Rey should be holding the saber and she clearly isn’t. The step back and step forward on Rey’s part is just necessary because when Luke is first holding the saber staring at Rey, she isn’t within 4-5 feet of him, so there is no way to keep her near him… the whole mountaintop scene is a shitshow imo, which is why i cut the whole thing in the clean cut. For the purists, I really tried my best to polish this turd…

As for the ending, this is just how i prefer it - no plans on tweaking this further

Yeah nice, will have to checkout the new intro once you’ve released it.

That makes sense regarding the original shot of the capital ship, though what if you transition to it literally as the camera is already starting to dive down so you still get the dynamic motion as well as a quick glimpse of the resistance capital ship before zooming down through the transports to the planet surface?

I agree and appreciate your efforts to improve the saber tossing scene and I think you could actually still improve on it if you were to simply cut from timestamps 4:19 to 4:26 as I don’t feel the footage between these times is needed to convey the same scene and also solves the standing distance issue. With that cut, we get to see Rey’s hand drop after handing Luke the saber and it’s natural to think that she’s stepped back a little (without needing to see it) in reverence and respect to Luke as he beholds his father’s long lost saber and so the next shot where it’s a semi-close up of Luke staring at his saber without Rey in the shot works perfectly fine. Then I think the reversed shot of him handing the saber back just needs to be duplicated with the part of her taking it trimmed off and then placed just before we see her step back up to then seeing her take it from his hands. This makes it evident that she steps up to take it because he’s been holding it out to her for a few seconds now from the additional shot and in between the cuts.

In my head at least this works a lot better and I think makes the scene play out more naturally. It’d be great if you could do a quick and dirty cobbled together edit for yourself just to see if these ideas work better as I feel that seeing now how you’ve now done it, I can actually see how it could work better and if I had the time and know how I’d try to cut together a rough example myself.

This is of course your edit so you’ve got to be happy with it in the end and so in saying that, fair enough on your ending 😃. I’m just hoping to pass on some feedback that I feel could improve your already great edits.

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#1277841
Topic
Last of the Jedi (Purist version of the Clean Cut)
Time

Just quickly played the start and end of this purist version so as to checkout the new additions from your clean cut. I like the new title and additions to the crawl but upon initial first viewing of the new edits I think a number of tweaks need to be made to improve the overall affect and effectiveness of a few scenes:

1 - I feel the sound of going into hyperspace starts too soon, such that it overrides the normal music shift you’re used to hearing in all SW movies as it nearly goes quiet before the camera begins panning down (with some flutes playing) to a planet / the start of the story. Maybe you could leave the crawl visible for another 2-3 seconds as it heads away from us before it fades away so that you’re not left staring at a blank star field for too long just waiting for the music to run it’s natural course before beginning the movie proper? I think it would also make the fade in to the music playing during the hyperspace intro much more seamless whereas currently it seems a bit sudden.

2 - I think saber handing back scene feels a bit off. For instance, it feels odd to see Rey suddenly standing so far away after seeing her step backwards in the close up and to then walk those 3-4 meters back to Luke again to take it from him with no noticeable reason to do so. I think it’s a bit obvious that a number of shots have been reused in a reversed state, so I think in this case maybe less is more in achieving the effect you’re going for. For example, in Ivan Ortega’s fix for this scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aIxYInj0uo) I think he goes straight to showing Luke already holding the saber and then he seems to hold it outwards for a bit, indicating to Rey to take it which she then steps up and takes it before he storms past. I haven’t rewatched the entire video but I think this is more or less what he does.

I’m not suggesting to just copy Ivan as I think it is important to see Luke taking and staring at the saber for some time while he holds it as this gives the audience time to think as well on what thoughts and emotions must be going through Luke’s mind. Whether you could just remove the section where we see Rey standing well back, instead only seeing her stepping back a bit and then watching Luke’s reaction where Rey isn’t visible at all and then showing him hold the saber out to which we then see Rey step back up to take it? I know this will affect the timing of the music a bit but I think we are also missing a scene where we see her take the saber out of her bag and maybe this could be added back in to pad it back out to help with the timing? It does also feel odd after watching her walk the whole way there only holding her staff that she’s just suddenly holding it.

3 - The transition afterwards to the Resistance is nice but I feel it would be good to transition to showing their capital ship in orbit first before the camera begins to dive down through the fleeing transport ships. It feels a bit too sudden currently and seeing their capital ship instantly identifies who we’re about to see and what is happening (ie. the Resistance evacuating).

4 - The ending I feel needs the slow zoom out wide shot of everyone standing in the Millenium Falcon cut, instead having the close up of Leia and Rey lead straight into the hyperspace shot and the end music. Everyone in the wide shot just looks far too calm and relaxed chatting away with some even appearing happy after everything that just happened, like they’re at some kid’s birthday party instead of nearly just losing everything. It just feels so tonally off, whereas up to that point it was feeling a little sombre as it should be (though it should really feel a lot darker again), with Leia inserting the necessary touch of light to not have it feel completely hopeless (though her line “we have every we need” is again a bit tonally off and positivity overkill for the situation).

I hope to give your clean cut and this version a proper viewing sometime soon so I can provide some overall feedback but for now I just wanted to get those first impressions in and see what you and others thought.

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#1277524
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

So the fact that Palpy has been in nearly all the movies now in either person or referenced (& pending what IX reveals he may even get tied into 7 and 8 retrospectively), should we now call it “The Sith Lord Saga”?

Or maybe “Memoirs of a Dark Emperor” or “Palpy and the Skywalkers” or “Die Hard 9.0 - Palpy gets back!” 🤣