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Trooperman

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15-Feb-2005
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15-Jun-2015
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Post
#110839
Topic
Should Lucas replace Guiness with an aged McGregor?
Time
That's cost ineffective. The sheer scope of the worlds on the PT blow those of the OT away, visually. To make models and sets that big or that vivid would cost more than they were worth.

However, I would be happier with sets that were on a lesser scale, if they looked realistic and not like CGI. I wouldn't mind that they weren't as big or vivid.

I'm one of those people who thinks that the less resources a good director has, the better the movie (to a point). With less gimmicks and effects to fall back on, the characters and plot become better to sustain interest. That's one of my favorite theories about filmmaking.
Post
#110729
Topic
Ideas: I've been gone for some time now...
Time
BTW, Trooperman do you have final scripts for TPM, AOTC or ROTS?

No- you see, what people call the final script often has many differences due to cut scenes and alternate takes used at the last minute. In writing alternate dialogue for Anakin, I'm referring to the script for Episode II, but I'm not actually writing out complete scripts for my edits.

One question, out of curiosity: It is known that the press screenings of Episode I: TPM were different from the theatrical in one way- when Maul fell down the shaft at the end, he fell in one piece, he didn't split in half. Also, there are two versions of the theatrical release- in the rarer one (which didn't make it to video), Maul doesn't break apart until the very end of his fall. This could be cropped.

My question is- back then, did anyone download this off the Internet back then? Is it possible that someone may have a copy of this clip? If so, then Maul=Grievous would work much, much better in Episode III.
Post
#110726
Topic
Preserving The "Other" Lucasfilm Projects...
Time
Those are different listings, MeBeJedi, but they are all of the new "Director's Cut"- not the original, which is out of print and has never been released on DVD. A quick way to tell is the rating- the original was rated PG, and the director's edition was rated R.

But I would be really interested if someone with an original widescreen LD or VHS made a DVD of it.
Post
#110491
Topic
Fett's "Death" in ROTJ
Time
I think he's dead. Not because I don't like some of the EU stuff, but George Lucas' original intention was for him to die.

In the original script, there's a line that refers to Boba Fett making his "last flight" ever into the Sarlacc pit. This implies that he never got out.

Of course GL could change this if he wanted, but I'm convinced that this was his original intention.
Post
#110352
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
Is that ugly CG cow that Anakin rides getting fixed???

Kind of-it doesn't exist any more. It has been cut.

I don't know...re-editing and overdubbing the PT seems a lot like polishing a turd. After all that hard work, the finished product is still just a turd.


Au contraire; the finished project will not have any resemblance to a "turd".

I'm not just polishing the movie; I'm almost half-remaking it. The reason I picked Episode II to do first out of the three prequels is because it will require the most work. How I do Episode II will dictate how I do Episode III, and the ideas for Episode I will probably be heavily based on "Balance of the Force."

I'm almost clear on just about every aspect of SotDS now; only one huge problem remains.

I need to find an alternate language audio track (Russian, Italian, Danish, etc.) other than Spanish, French, or German- for Episode I (and preferably Episode II although not necessary). I cannot do anything with Jar-Jar or the Nemoidians unless I know that I have a convincing language track for them for Episode I; I have to look ahead.

Does anyone know where one might obtain a foreign DVD (doesn't matter what region) fitting this description?
Post
#110359
Topic
Ideas: I've been gone for some time now...
Time
Thanks for your comments about my edit, Obi-Wonton!

Music- I love to use classic music that wasn't actually written by John Williams, but sounds like SW music.

-If you are extending the nightmare sequence in Ep. II as I am, check out "Tapiola" by Sibelius, 15 minutes, 30 secs into it. There are also a couple good dramatic cues at around 11:15 and 12:15.

-"The Planets" by Holst sound a lot like Star Wars (part of it has been used in the temp tracks, which might explain that). "Mars" is good in particular.

-Another good one by Sibelius is the first movement of the Karelia Suite- I've found that that makes a perfect ending for Phantom Menace, instead of the juvenile sounding original. I synched it with the ending footage to see how it would work (out of curiosity), and not only did it have a completely appropriate build and crescendo (presumably to the end credits), it was the correct length, and not only that, it climaxes to the exact key on which the end credits begin.

Not sure if you wanted music advice, but I hope that helped in that department.
Post
#110133
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
For the moonlight scene on Naboo that you are doing, it might work if you cut when Anakin leans over to kiss Padme, until when Padme pulls away, saying "no", making it look like they haven't actually kissed yet.


That's exactly what I was talking about

And after experimenting with the footage a bit, I've found an alternate beginning to the Obi-Wan/Anakin/Dooku duel that would not only solve the force-lightning problem, but also would allow me to keep the humorous exchange in Episode III (This time, we'll do it together. I was about to say that).

Anakin rushes forward. Dooku motions with his hand. High strings in music, tension building.

Obi-Wan: No! Anakin! He looks on with terror.

Dark minor chord crashes in music. CUT to Anakin lying on the floor. Dooku smiles. CUT out of scene.

So you see, we have one of those classic scenes where something is editorially implied but not actually seen onscreen, which in many cases actually increases the dramatic effect.
Post
#109693
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
Is it possible to add a scream from Padmé just before Anakin gets hit in the head in the droid factory? This way, the reason why the robot arm hits him is because he is distracted by Padmé (otherwise he should have been able to avoid that arm because he is a Jedi) Maybe also add a shot when he turns around after the scream (from earlier in the sequence).

Great idea Mr. Freeman! I'll definitely do that, as it provides a reason as to why Anakin gets clobbered. And thanks again for the "lost edit" info.

Twister111: I'll use the take in the trailer. And that's a good point about Jango's knowledge of the clones.


Before there had been quite a debate over the Yoda/Dooku duel. I had originally supported no lightsabers, but force lightning, but after Rots and what they did with Yoda and Dooku's characters I believe things would be best if as soon as Dooku sees Yoda's approaching, he flings the crane (or whatever) onto Obi-Wan and Anakin and flees to his ship. I think these were Trooperman's initial thoughts on it anyway, so good foresight on that. The Sidious/Yoda confrontation will be infinitely more powerful once *it* is Yoda's big reveal instead of the duel with Dooku. Lucas jumped the gun on that one. Not to mention there isn't a hint of force lightning from Dooku in RotS, and the whole master/apprentice rivalry between him and Yoda went absolutely nowhere.


Thanks, Commander Courage. When I planned to take that out, I really was hoping that there would be a good duel in RotS, but I avoided spoilers and didn't know until a week ago.

About the beginning of the duel Trooperman, I know you had discussed cutting out Anakin charging Dooku, cut away to something else, and when we come back Anakin is already writhing on the floor. But Obi-Wan and Anakin have a great exchange in RotS: "This time we'll do it together," "I was about to say that." You lose that in your version. So the thought occured to me, although this is probably impossible, can the force lightning be somehow "painted out" to have it appear as if Dooku throws Anakin hard across the room? Any thoughts on that?

Thoughts- that would solve all of the problems, but it would be extremely difficult. I don't know if I'll be able to do it.

-Anakin's dream can be worked out very effectively. Keep the close up shot of him opening his eyes, but for the rest, insert a RotS-esque dream showing Shmi tied up, and maybe some of the Tusken Raider attack from ANH. Then make the movie transition to MTHaslett's idea for the porch scene. I figured we should at least see some Sandpeople in Anakin's dream, and the attack on Luke is the best place to get it from. Heck, it could even be argued Anakin is foreseeing that incident as well.

Good idea! I'll play with the Tusken footage in the dream.

-Lama-Su's line "I trust you will enjoy your stay" doesn't sit well with me, as Obi-Wan is just there to inspect the clones, no "staying" involved. I don't know, that just stuck out at me.

Very easy to fix. Lama-Su is being done by someone else now (ChainsawAsh has volunteered, I believe).

-When Anakin is looking into the suns, we should SEE the suns. We do in RotS on Mustafar, so why not here, where he is in the exact same spot his son will be in 20 years?

What I could do is use the shot of the sunset from the 2004 DVD, as it is different from the original version. That way, it wouldn't be the exact same shot. Good idea, though.

-The shot of the flying whale coming out of the wave should be cut. This is just before yet another establishing shot of Tipoca City before the meeting with Jango, and it looks ridiculous.


I'll do that.

-I don't know what your stance is on Dooku/Tyranus, but regardless of whether he is a Sith or not, a bounty hunter like Jango should not just offer info to Obi-Wan like, "I was hired by a man names Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden." The line should be cut just as in MagnoliaFan's version.


My stance is that he's definitely a Sith! Complete with red lightsaber and ending scene with Sidious. However, I will definitely cut the reference to Tyranus because not only would a bounty hunter not give out that type of info, but if I cut this and Obi-Wan's response ("really"), then I can use Obi-Wan's "really" as a cynical reply to Lama-Su in the earlier scene! It works perfectly.

-When Qui-Gon is heard, I noticed for the first time you can hear Vader's breath as well at the end of the "NO!" And it occured to me, could this be the "NO!" from RotS after Vader learns of Padme's death? Just an interesting thought I had.


That is an interesting thought! Only I'm already pretty sure that Vader's "NOOOO...." will not be in my version of RotS.

Thanks for the advice!

MTHaslett-


I think Hayden has a great mean glare, but it isn't used well in the movie. It should have been saved for one or two key moments. Revealing it here over Zam is supposed to indicate the depth of his desire to protect Padme -- but it doesn't strike the right note for some reason. It comes off almost comical. It's an empty threat. I would remove the harsh line-reading here to preserve Hayden's "angry face" for later reveals. Taking it out also makes Anakin more smart and self-controlled here. I think we need to take advantage of every opportunity to make Anakin smart and self-controlled so that we feel he's earned the right to "snap" and go get his mom.

Good point. I'll cut it.

I see what you're suggesting here -- it seems like a streamlined version of the romance. As I imagine this outline I only have one problem: I don't see enough romance. The dinner scene is not intimate and without the kitchen scene, there's no hint that Padme likes Anakin. Seeing people in a beautiful setting (in the grass) can be romantic, but needs to be supported by actual scenes of intimacy. I don't like the "Well... if it works" dialogue because I believe Padme being a politician would be heavily turned off by such a fascist-leaning speech. I can only guess how much work went into turning the "first kiss" scene to moonlight with new dialogue. I have to urge you to cut the kiss in favor of letting their kiss on Geonosis be their first. Their romance at this point has had no intimacy and no chemistry. A kiss here pre-empts all the intimacy that can come from seeing Anakin's mother die, seeing him fight to save her in the droid factory, and finally facing death together. I strongly urge you to use this time on Naboo to lay intimacy groundwork with the scene in Padme's bedroom, the kitchen, and at the fireside where Anakin and Padme resist each other. With these scenes the arc of boy-meets-girl/boy-loses-girl/boy-gets-girl will be in place.


That's an excellent point. Thinking about it in a "big picture" way, I agree that that's a classic formula (boy-meets-girl/boy-loses-girl/boy-gets-girl), and the movie would work much better if they did not kiss until after all that they had gone through together. But I loved that moonlit scene!

What I didn't like about the fireplace scene was not only its corniness and awful acting, but the fact that they're talking all about this romance that isn't possible, and then go into reasons why it isn't possible, but all without so much as a kiss between them. How does this sound- I'll delete the fireplace scene and keep the moonlit balcony scene- only Anakin will not kiss Padme. He'll look at her romantically and lean in, but Padme will turn away and say, "No...I can't do this." or "It's not possible" or some other dialogue from the fireplace scene.

Before that, I will give in on the bedroom scene and the scene in the kitchen, when Padme looks out at Anakin through the window. How does that sound? Does it seem like it would flow better? We don't have the fireplace scene with bad dialogue and acting, we don't have a kiss until Geonosis, and we have more intimacy between the two of them.

Please give me your honest opinion!

Thank you -- for doing all the work! I'm thrilled to be able to bounce any ideas your way as you do this because I strongly believe a good movie is hiding in this footage somewhere. Credit? For me? I can't believe it! Tell me more! (I hope I'm not booted out for disputing your ideas -- I was only kidding! Rats.)


Ha ha! I take it back- your lack of faith is disturbing! (just kidding). Yes, once done, I plan either to put the names of the people who have contributed to this project in the credits, or to credit everyone at the end of the audio commentary I'm doing for the DVD, explaining everything I did. In the commentary, I'll explain which ideas came from where and the thought process behind them.

Sorry I can't say more right now! I've had a long day.

May the Force be with you!
Post
#108961
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Time
MTHaslett- I want you to come over and be my assistant editor! There's some really brilliant stuff in that last post. As Klokwerk said, some of it contradicts what I have planned already, but I will incorporate as much of this as possible. I'd also like to break your post down so as to comment on individual notes.

Speeder chase:
Cut most of the banter. Let the excitement of the chase take over without the bickering. Maybe keep "What took you so long" but omit the response. The next conversation should be when Obi Wan says "Well, you lost him." Keep their exchange up through the line "I hate when he does that." That gives them some history and makes Anakin good since he kept his mouth shut before pulling this cool stunt.

I definitely agree about the bickering. Although I am a bit partial to the "Well, you know, Master; I couldn't find the speeder I really liked." All dialogue after that will definitely be cut, but I still don't know about the aforementioned line.

Oh, and about the speeder chase: The big differences with this is alternate ship sounds for Zam's ship and the speeder (as well as color desaturation). Anakin's free-fall has been shortened. Some percussive music will be replaced with more orchestral music. The power couplings scene will probably be cut. And when Anakin first gets into the speeder and backs out of the lot, that was very unconvincing graphics, in my opnion. Too quick. So what I've done is end that scene with the shot where Anakin goes from right-frame to left of frame, going to the next scene. A backwards sideways wipe does the trick.


When he crashes Zam's ship and has to roll on the ground, cut the action so he recovers almost instantaneously and starts running after Zam -- make him seem unstoppable rather than having that beat where he holds his ribs and catches his breath unconvincingly.

Absolutely! Complete loss of momentum. Makes Anakin look wimpy and will be cut.


I think all the ObiWan/Anakin dialogue through this cantina scene is fine until Zam is dying in their arms. Anakin's angry "Tell us NOW" should be cut, leaving only his first, more sedate line reading.
Easy enough. But why? (just curious)

Padme packing to leave:
OMIT this entire scene (please!).

The only problem I can see with that is the fact that we don't know that Padme is leaving Jar-Jar behind with her responsibilities. I wa toying with shortening and re-editing this scene.

Padme: I do not like this idea of hiding.
Anakin: Well, I don't like this idea of leaving behind Jar-Jar to make political decisions. I know that idiot better than you do, Padme.
Padme: He's grown up. And so have you, Anakin.

I've kind of written myself into a corner, though. That whole thing may indeed go.

REPLACE it with the shots of Anakin asleep in a bed having a nightmare about his mother. This is the perfect place to reinforce Anakin's primary problem: his dreams.
That is definitely a perfect place to put it. But it could still work even if I used the other scene. The nightmare would end, and then wipe to Anakin staring out the window at the next scene.

Anakin/Padme romance scenes: I have made detailed plans as far as this goes. Here's what I've planned so far:

-Anakin/Padme talk on the way out of ship.
-Dinner scene. Edited so that scene ends with, "Yes. I'm afraid she is."
- Grassy picnic scene has been completely reworked. Starts with short montage of mountains while full-blown love theme plays (a la beginning of "Sound of Music". Fade to them rolling around on grass. Then, hard cut to heavily edited picnic scene. Boyfriend chat is removed. Scene ends with Anakin saying, "Well...if it works..." Clockwipe so as to reveal his smile at the last minute, similar to many of the Palpatine scenes.
-Heavily, radically edited version of the "first kiss" scene is in the edit. First of all, it's now a moonlit scene; not daytime. Secondly, Anakin isn't talking about sand; he's telling Padme, "I love you." It made more sense to have the kiss as the culmination of everything that had come before it.

See page 2 of this thread for screenshots of the rough cut.

Finally, on Naboo, the last scene to tinker with is Anakin deciding to leave. First, as the sunset begins the scene, we should be hearing a woman SCREAM and Tuskan Raider GRUNTS, Shmi saying "Anni!" and some man yelling "ANAKIN!" (That last bit from the voices that Yoda hears as Anakin kills the sand people later). This montage of sound should play until Padme comes out onto the porch with Anakin. Her voice should almost seem to make the yelling stop -- mirroring what Anakin says: "your presence calms me." Then, use editing to extend the last Padme beat -- let things soak in for her a little longer (using the close ups) before she says "I'll go with you." Then cut out before Anakin says anything else.

Great idea! I'll follow that by the letter.

The shots of Padme and Anakin traveling together by cart are awkward and unnecessary. Cut from the master of the ship landing to a one-shot of Wato as Anakin says his first line to the pathetic little creature. Then cut to the master with Anakin, Padme and Wato and play out the scene. A Jedi finds his man immediately -- we don't need to see the "shoe leather" of how he got there.

Precisely! That's a definite go. I really couldn't take the cart or the dumb droids.

Cut the lines when Anakin tells the dying Shmi, "Stay with me mom, everything's going to be fine" -- just let him hold her helplessly as she dies saying "I love..." and lays her head back. OMIT the wide shot where he closes her eyes and stay with the close ups -- first Anni, then repeat one of Shmi dead, then Anni's final glaring flash of anger before cutting outside. This reduces the awkwardness of this scene greatly.


Definitely. It will be done.

OMIT the awful eulogy. Bring up the music. After the sweeping master shot, cut to Anakin falling to his knees (omit his stepping forward). Then cut away to Padme before he reaches down awkwardly for a handful of dirt. Then come back to him for the lines "I promise I won't fail you again... I miss you so much." After adjusting the preceding Padme/Anakin scene (discussed upthread), this promise made over Shmi's grave will finally work -- meaning that he's trying to vow not to be a bad Jedi anymore. He's telling his mom what he wouldn't tell Padme -- he regrets killing all those sandpeople.


Yes! What I've also done with this scene is cropped the frames with a full view of Clieg so as to omit the hovering aspect of his wheelchair. Looks awkward.

As Obi-Wan's message finishes on Padme's ship and in the Jedi council, OMIT the Windu line "stay where you are," so Anakin and Padme do not disobey a direct order. As Obi-Wan's message ends, we see Padme watching, she looks to Anakin... CUT TO: Yoda's lines, then Mace Windu's lines, then CUT TO: Anakin's close up reaction. Avoid the master shot where Anakin looks too laid back. Then let Padme talk about how close Geonosis is, let Anakin say "if he's still alive..." and CUT TO Padme saying "I'm going to save Obi Wan. If you plan to protect me, you'll have to come along." Intercut the Anakin close-ups where he looks upset to break up her flight-prep action and cut it so his reaction changes from upset to smiling. Then he sits down to fly away...


Good idea about not disobeying Master Windu. As for this conversation, I have re-edited it differently so that Anakin is a stronger character, not being bossed around by Padme. Padme certainly contributes, but it's Anakin that ends up making the bad choice.


Your ideas for the droid factory sound awesome. As that scene ends, I recommend using part of the Dukoo/Padme meeting scene or, at the very least, the trial scene before Padme and Anakin find themselves shackled together in that cart for the...


I'll use the trial scene, with the Geonosian subtitles from the "lost edit" of Ep. II by Rebel Scumb. The dialogue is brilliant.

HEAVILY RE-EDIT this scene and it will work beautifully. First, the music is badly mis-cued in the original edit and secondly the dialogue is horrible. But the scene and the performances are good -- so try this: They stand together and Anakin reaches out to say "Don't be afraid." Padme replies "I'm not afraid to die." He looks at her. She looks at him with love. He looks at her with confusion, she looks at him with a little tear... closer we move until she says "I love you." He gives her a disbelieving look, but she looks at him with tears in her eyes -- we know she means it (this may require dropping out the dialogue on some shots and cutting so her lip-movement doesn't look like talking). Finally, they move in together to kiss and as they kiss the MUSIC CRESCENDOS! The current edit crescendos after they draw into the arena -- but by that time the important stuff is already over. This will work, the performances are there -- just held back by all that awful talking.


I will definitely re-edit that scene, even more heavily than you have described. Music will definitely crescendo as they kiss; then, cut out of scene to the arena; no need for the cheesy shot of them riding out into the arena, especially with change in music.


Finally, the battle scene where Amidala falls out of the ship and Obi-Wan has to fight Anakin's urge to stop and save her should stay -- that's great stuff and will work as-is to support this new Anakin story. I recommend keeping it as written.


Still thinking of improvements on this...


With these changes, this movie will have a strong and likable Anakin. This will make him the Jedi who clearly has deep troubles and real love which in Episode III cause him to throw everything away for the chance to save Padme.


Definitely! Thanks so much for all of this great advice. Your name will go in the credits. Sorry I can't say more; I'm busy right now but will chat more about this later.

Well since your doing this, I think that this scene would be good to be in it. The "you haven't learned anything Anakin." Make's the "I try" line less akward(in my oppinion). The footage is on one of the Trailers and, in the music video on the DVD.


I will include that line. It's great and it does lower the awkwardness of the following line.

Thanks so much! The overall quality of this is shooting up exponentially with each of these posts, and I'm so excited to do it. Yesterday, I bought a new NVIDIA video card to replace the lousy one I own currently, so I will soon be able to complete some scenes
for the final cut.

Trooperman