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Trooperman

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15-Feb-2005
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Post
#226109
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226109/action/topic#226109
Time
Thank you very much for the recent bunch of suggestions. I had in fact come across the Master Edition site in my research, and all of the problems you've listed don't exist any more, besides Anakin ignoring Jar-Jar, which I may or may not change.

I have quite a few sound files of storm troopers saying lines. I can put them up if some one wants them.

That'd be great! Thank you.

This also reminds me - am I the only person who hates the "Vietnam helicopter"-style shot towards the beginning of the battle, showing a quick zoom in of the folks hanging out of the open sides of the clone troopers aerial fighters? Can you get that outta there?

I can get rid of that, yes. You're not the first person that's brought that up.

Now, I've made a decision on the Lawrence/Dune footage: I'm going to retain a few of the shots (like the pilots from Dune with the Star Wars helmets, the ships coming out of the mist, and men running around in the smoke). These are generic enough that they fit into the film seamlessly. But I will not use the red and black Dune soldiers. I'm worried that it'll take away the film's credibility.

However, I don't mind that because I've got the whole com-link battle banter idea to develop.

Nanner Split: PM sent

Trooperman: Even if you keep the attenea guy I still suggest you use that alternate angle in the Good to G.O. Doc. The one that focuses on Anakin rather then the Lucas' daughter/Ahmed close-up. It comes up around the time there's talk of the old west.

Thank you for the tip, Twister. I did have a look at that shot, but it unfortunately is too short for the music timing of the scene, which I've worked out already. However, I've changed the existing shot so that Ahmed Best and Lucas' daughter aren't even in the shot anymore.

Quick thought:
Droid Factory:
Have Padme yelling for Anakin. I never understood why she didn't say anything while in that giant bucket!


That's a really good idea, and it hadn't occurred to me. Perfect timing as well- I'm still working on that sequence. Thanks!

Come to think of it, that scene where Anakin jumps out of the speeder always really annoyed me. It is also a scene that I hear smerked at alot.

This has been changed for a long time. Anakin is brutal in this version. In the original, he jumps out of the speeder, we see many shots of him free-falling, he finally latches onto the speeder, and then he spends at least another minute positioning himself.

In SOTDS, he jumps out, immediately latches onto the speeder as it goes off into the distance, and the next shot is Anakin pulling out his saber. Zam screams and Anakin cuts through. I had posted a video clip of that some time ago, with the music.

SSR: Regarding the arena battle, I had actually cut it a different way, in accordance with an outline by MTHaslett. The idea was that Anakin/Padme had a plan to get out, and Obi-Wan didn't. Therefore, the emphasis is on Obi-Wan, and the arena battle is pretty much from his point of view. Also, in the new storyline, Anakin is still angry at Obi-Wan for indirectly causing his mother's death, and thus Anakin isn't cracking jokes with Obi-Wan during the arena. Also, the "bad feeling" line has been moved to the sequence before the droid factory, when the door shuts behind Padme and Anakin.

Hey does anyone hstill have a link to the yoda clip? I'm curious on how this it looks.

I can repost it if nobody else does.

------------

I have rotoscoped three of Windu's saber shots using my new, more efficient process (as efficient as you can be painting it frame by frame in Photoshop, anyway). The results were worth the effort, however. The shots look stunning and as though they were always that way. I can post a clip now, or you can wait until the trailer.

Speaking of the trailer, I am working on that currently. I'm having kind of a hard time building excitement through the different shots, though. The thing is, a lot of what is exciting about the movie is the music, the drama, and the pacing of it- things that can't be shown in a trailer. However, I now have a few new saber shots, Nanner Split's performance as Lama-Su, and my own recordings, so I probably have enough now.

Many, many scenes are coming together now. It's very exciting to me as I continue to see payoff after all of this planning and work. I probably want you all to see this movie more than you yourselves want to see it. No matter what I say on the forum, you won't truly understand what this film has turned into until you see it...

-TM
Post
#225181
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225181/action/topic#225181
Time

Have you thought about using the link that SomethingStarWarsRelated posted (http://fanfilms.theforce.net/User_SearchPI.asp). With that you might be able to get someone to do the fx for those ideas that your not able to do to. But then agian everyone on TFN would never want there precious PT touched to match the OOT.

Thanks for the reminder, Richard. Actually, I don't want to give too much away yet, but someone right on OT.com has PMd me about some possible special effects work. He's busy and my requests are difficult, so I don't know how much'll work out, but it's still very good news for me.


Another concern I would have would be the red soldiers from Dune, for anybody who has seen Dune they would be instantly recongnizable. That might be the difference between making this a good replacment for Attack of the Clones or it just being another cool fan edit.

This is precisely what I'm worried about. I have the hope that this film will become the definitive version of Ep. II in times to come. On the one hand I want to augment the movie with this footage, but on the other hand, using something so immediately recognizable by Dune fans is rather unprofessional. And yes, the Lawrence of Arabia stuff does contrast with the CGI (particularly the horse that someone pointed out a long time ago! Oops)

Now, I am definitely for the idea of "Mars", however. I was just looking for confirmation. John Williams was not only influenced by Mars, he actually copied part of it in his Star Wars score, at the beginning and the end of the movie (under pressure from G. Lucas). Therefore, I think this particular piece is OK to use.


I have a suggestion that I don't know exactly how to impliment-- but the idea would be to introduce a mini-story that gets told through the sound-track of clone-soldiers speaking on com-link. It would echo the way com-link dialogue made the Death Star run work.

If we had a little of this:

CLONE 1: "TC17, see if you can get past that first droid line"
CLONE 2: "I think I've got it-- NOOOO!"
CLONE 3: "We lost TC17-- Mothar Squad, get over there now!"
CLONE 1: "Roger"
CLONE 3: "They're coming in on Rolling Artilery Batteries now, launch the counter-measure!"
CLONE 4: "Launching."

Whatever. Keep the tone cool and collected-- Stormtrooper-esque. But paint a picture with words that kind of lays into the background of the sequence and starts to build drama. Let the leader name a target (like the launching transports that Anakin finally helps stop) -- and write lines that get the Clones closer and closer to their target.

This added dialogue would bring the sequence a kind of "guide" which would really help shape that battle and give it a little more form. Things should be pretty tough for the clones too, I think. It would be nice to hear a lot of them die, though we'd also hear how little the remaining clones care about their fallen brothers.

Just an idea.

As usual, a brilliant idea. I wish I had thought of it. Especially the part about the clone's indifference to death. This is exactly the type of idea I was looking for. Again, it gives me focus for the sequence. The only issue is the voice of the clones, which is supposed to be the same as Fett's. However, I can redub all of the clones with his accent, and I'll bet the fact that it's over radio will make it more than convincing enough.


I think MTHaslett has a pretty interesting point with the whole com-link idea. Look back at Star Wars, in the trench run, we see a lot of shoots of x-wings and Y-wings moving through the trench, we see turret firing at them, and we see tie-fighters, but holding all that action together is the pilots communicating via their com systems. Imagine that whole scene without the inside the cockpit shoots and without the pilots communicating with each other and you might have something a slight bit like, but not near as poorly done as the opening battle of the clone war.

Perfect comparison! Actually hearing the radio dialogue will give the battle an actual semi-story, not just a meaningless CG montage. This will make the battle feel like Star Wars, and it solved my nagging problem with editing this thing; I myself was at a loss as to the point of the whole sequence, even with the extra footage and music inserted.

Of course you are the one editing it all, so it is for you to say whether this is feasible or not.

It IS in fact feasible for me.


...the low-tech, "Original Trilogy"-style nuances like sand that kicks up around people's feet and the way real people move as opposed to animated soldiers.

Whether I use the red and black soldiers or not, I can probably still use the shots of the feet moving around in the dirt.


Anyway, I would love to hear even more about what you'd like to see in the clone war sequence, taking our resources into account. Perhaps expand on the talking clones idea...

This idea definitely set my brain off again, though! Thank you...
Post
#225109
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225109/action/topic#225109
Time
I was about to sign on with an explanation as to why just leaving it as "death sticks" might be better (too obvious lip flap, and so on), but C3PX's post struck me. It's true that with "death sticks", this appears as being an anti-smoking statement in the middle of the movie, and probably not the type of thing they would have thrown in there in the 70's/80's. Personally, I never really cared, but it seems as though leaving it "death sticks" would irritate a lot of people. I went back and saw how the scene would work with just "sticks". It actually worked surprisingly well after a great deal of tinkering; the problem was that the dealer's "sss" at the end of everything overlapped into Obi-Wan's lines, and it was difficult at first to achieve synch. It works now, though, and this:

"you don't have to know what whiff is, just to know that it's a drug, and you can tell by the way they say it. Hopefully, you still can here - maybe not, though."

comment helped a lot, because now the dealer says, "You want to buy some...sticks?" It's a lot more clear that it's a drug than it was before, when his delivery was simply, "You want to buy some sticks?"

If it bothers you, Sluggo, I can upload an AC3 mix with the "death sticks" lines intact. After the DVD's are made, it really won't be difficult to change the audio mix, as long as the video is unaffected. As I said a while ago, I could even go Ben Burtt on this movie and create 7 different audio mixes for different audiences, all with different content


Many moons ago I posted a big long rant in this thread about how bad an idea this was going to be. Since you like honesty I'll tell you there's still some things that strike me as mega dodgy (the Dune footage for instance). I like a lot of the ideas you're coming up with (the speed-shifting of Yoda footage is clever) and I cannot fault you for the effort you're putting in.

Zebonka.. I remember you! You've come around a bit. Fantastic news! Now, the only one left to convert is "The Bizzle". His contention was that my new ADR for Anakin could not possibly be as good as Hayden's, because I'm not getting paid.

We'll see about that

Your comment about the Dune footage is interesting, along with the couple of others who've expressed concern over this. The idea was very well received when it first came out, and now I'm starting to hear the other side.

This is a good time to talk about this, because I am just beginning work on the arena, the clone war, the pursuit of Dooku, and so on. What does everyone think? Are the red and black soldiers a good idea (if set up by Nute Gunray beforehand), or will it be distracting? Should I use Holst's "Mars" for the soundtrack, or will that be distracting? I know it's a very well known piece, but it went so well with the sequence.

See, my actual vision of the Clone War won't be possible (at least, for this edition). I planned shots of TIE fighters racing towards camera, grenades being thrown across trenches, men sitting at control desks inside bases or ships (intercut with the fighting), and so on. None of this will be possible at this point. But my idea behind the Lawrence and the Dune footage was that if we're going to have a battle without any meaning behind it or characters to follow (as in the original), I at least wanted to show some hand to hand combat.

But this is a great time to hear any more thoughts that any of you have for the arena and the clone war. Even small things such as the order of shots that you'd prefer. There are a million ways to cut this, and although I've seen other editor's ideas on this, I want to hear yours. Obviously we're going to be having new music, a lot of new sound effects, impact flashes, and desaturation of CGI all around (and new mike sounds for the troopers), so there aren't many limitations on what I can do regarding sequencing.

-TM

P.S. Just a reminder- if someone could upload track 10 from the "Attack of the Clones" soundtrack, that'd be great (in the open or via PM). This track is for some reason corrupted on my backup copy, and the original no longer exists. This would be quicker than buying another copy of the soundtrack for one cue.
Post
#224664
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224664/action/topic#224664
Time
I'm sorry for not updating this sooner. But a lot has been going on behind the scenes.

-First of all, if any of you were looking for 3PO dialogue in the radio dramas, you can stop now. I had some free time on my hands with the radio dramas, and I searched for and found appropriate dialogue that was clean enough to use in the movies. From this dialogue, I scripted the scene by hand, and then edited it and put it together in the editor. Then, I recorded my ADR and inserted music. This is much more methodical than I usually approach scenes, but it worked out wonderfully. 3PO's introduction is now wonderful and hilarious, in my opinion. Even his gestures match his new dialogue. I won't give it away; I want you to see it for yourself when the time comes.

-Secondly, there's a very good chance that there will be some special effects work on SOTDS that I do not have a hand in. Right now, we're figuring out what is and isn't possible in terms of what my target scenes for FX were.

-Thirdly, I have downloaded Nanner Split's ADR recordings for LAMA-SU, the prime minister of Kamino. What a marvelous performance! Quiet and creepy, just what I wanted. Believe me, the finished scenes feel nothing like a fan-film. What a high-quality performance! Thank you, Nanner Split.

It's so eerie to hear the new scenes I've scripted (particularly Lama-Su's "Brave new world" speal during the second scene) delivered so well by another voice. Again, I won't ruin the surprise by giving you the script for these scenes. Now, NS is away this month, but he did forget two lines of dialogue from his first scene, so I'll see if these can't be recorded when he comes back.

----------------------

Regarding the death sticks sequence, I still like it, despite the guy's costume and the name (the latter of which I can change). As far as someone trying to sell "death sticks" to a Jedi, keep in mind that in the OT, Jedi were a really low-profile kind of group. Tarkin himself thinks Vader's just a left-over remnant of that "ancient religion". 20 years is not enough time to forget all about the Jedi; therefore, they must have always been kind of a secret association. Again, this is something I would've changed in the PT. There was never a standardized "Jedi uniform" in the OT. People didn't know what they were messing with until AFTERWARDS. Luke was dressed completely in black for ROTJ. It's just something that they made formulaic for the PT, as someone else was talking about.

Anyway, I do agree that the term "death sticks" is someone inane for the name of a drug. The problem is, the words are said three times, twice by the alien and once by Kenobi. Replacing it will likely not work. The only thing I can think of is shortening it to "sticks." Maybe it's a slang word.

"You want to buy some sticks?"
"You don't want to sell me sticks."

Maybe that would work?

More later,

-TM
Post
#222457
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222457/action/topic#222457
Time
I'm sorry that the "real" video format is inconvinient for some folks. I can switch to another format if you'd like.

I'm glad to hear people's reaction on the new Yoda. It definitely seems to me as though he's a more tangible creature in the new clip, and I'm glad that people seem to agree. Remember also that I can make it more "jerky" or less jerky, depending on the demands of each shot.

And thanks again to folks who haven't posted here before; I want to hear as many people's comments as possible.

So I guess there are a few shots in the movie where you can't change the frame rate (because of actors)...hmm...ROTS will probably be even harder to do...

That's correct. ROTS is a whole other problem, though. The whole "puppet look" kind of goes out the window with Yoda's lightsaber scene.

Oh, I had a question: how different is the editing of the last few scenes in SOTDS? Are you changing or adding anything significant?

In terms of content, the last few scenes are very similar to the original, actually. I'm beefing up the Imperial march and doing new color timing, of course (and I might use a different musical bridge for the wedding), but it's pretty similar. There are a couple of dialogue cuts in the conversation between Mace, Yoda, and Kenobi, most notably that Yoda will probably say "War has begun" or "A clone war has begun", or he'll simply end it on "The shroud of the dark side has fallen", making that the last line of the film.

I wish I could think of a way for Anakin to be hiding in the shadows...

I've looked at it, and there are a couple dark close-ups of him from the lightsaber fight. I'll probably slow those down a bit and cut those in.

Trooperman, can you give an overall summary of the OT-look you've added to this film?

Certainly.

What besides the analysis droids visual-wise have you changed to match the overall OT aesthetic?

Keep in mind that I haven't actually been able to change the analysis droid sequence yet (without someone's help). Off the top of my head…

1.All optical wipes are redone to match the OOT

2.Scenes with too much artificial detail have been softened

3.Light grain has been added to several scenes

4.The color palette in general is more muted and realistic. I’d be very surprised after production if I left the color timing in a single scene untouched. There have also been much more obvious color changes. The biggest examples of this radical departure are the droid factory sequence, the balcony sequence on Naboo, and the funeral (which takes place at sunset). The new colors for the droid factory scene in particular give you a much better sense of the "used universe" that was the original concept for Star Wars.

5.This doesn’t really count as the “look”, but you’ll find that the soundtrack throughout the movie is hugely different in aesthetics as well as content. Music is mixed much more prominently in the soundtrack, more creative sound effects are used, and the project is mixed in stereo, allowing me much more freedom than if I was mixing in 5.1 surround. Again, after I finish the first cut of the movie, though, I intended to go back to the master tracks and create a matrixed stereo track, which can be decoded as 4-channel surround sound if that’s what you want to do.

6.There is an extremely high amount of audio/video synchronization. This was a huge factor in the OOT- just look at the opening sequence of SW on the blockade runner. There are many times in that sequence when EVERY single shot is reflected in the music. This is done as much as possible in SOTDS.

7.The subtitles are burned in, in the font originally used for the OOT.

8.The cinematography throughout has tighter framing and better compositions in general. A lot of attention was put into this. The direction is also much less static now, with some camera movement and zooms when deemed dramatically necessary.

9. The opening logos are the original ones, not the new/glittering ones that went with the SE's and the prequels.

10. The movie is now fun to watch. That's a similarity to the OOT!


Thanks guys!

I'm sorry, but I have just one more request- could anyone post track 10 from the official Ep. II soundtrack (uncompressed)? I no longer have the original, and somehow track 10 on my backup copy was corrupted. There is audible clicking throughout. This didn't happen on any of the other tracks. I need this cue for my reedit of the Tatooine sequence with Cliegg and the search afterwards.

Thanks so much!

-TM
Post
#221999
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221999/action/topic#221999
Time
CG yoda from Attack of the Clones

Yoda from SOTDS



Thanks so much for making that music track available, Laserschwert! That was critical for the beginining of the Coruscant chase sequence.

And please don't say "bittorrent" or the "internet" because those avenues are far too slow for my connection...

If the Internet doesn't work for you, then find the project threads and put in a friendly request, or PM a couple of people about it. There isn't really an official network set up (and it's illegal to give or accept money for these, of course).

--------------------

This project has really been picking up for me. The picnic scene is complete. The new rejection scene is complete. The Geonosis cockpit scene is complete. The droid factory is in progress.

I'm very proud of the ADR for the rejection scene. Anakin doesn't completely lose it, but there's a certain anger and sadness mixed together. I'm just extremely happy with how this turned out.

The way things are going right now, it's definitely looking like a September release date for the test screener DVD-5. By that time, I'll have the official OOT DVD's for a couple logos that I'd like in higher quality. In the meantime, look out for a trailer coming soon. I'll probably start another thread for it when I'm ready to release it, so it'll be easy to spot.

Thanks, folks! And again, anyone who's helped me- I'll be needing your full name for the end credits.

-TM
Post
#221536
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221536/action/topic#221536
Time
Easy enough. I'll upload before and after clips of a shot to show you the difference in motion, in a couple days.


Awww come on! I know it's your project, so go ahead and keep it in. At least do something about his name. I know it doesn't show up in the movie, but in the credits, could you just put a black block or something over that guy's name as it rolls up the screen?

I'm going to have to figure out how to change the credits anyway, to include everybody that's helped me on this forum. I don't see why I can't change the guy's name. I never even knew he was called "Eli Sledgehammer" or whatever his name is.

They kept putting emotion in his eyes and facial features.
But when Frank Oz performs Yoda, all the emotions come from the movement of the face and body!
In AOTC, Yoda turns his eyes to look at something. In ESB, Yoda turns his entire face and/or body to look at something!
This is entirely different animation than what Frank was doing. The got a few of his mannerisms down, but not his overall acting and movement.

Exactly. CG Yoda's eyes move around far too much. So does the skin around his neck. In fact, everything moves around too much; apparently the animators couldn't leave anything alone. With the undersampling, some of this minor wobbling movement is gone, which makes all the difference. I can't do anything about the actual image that appears onscreen (aside from the colors and blend). What I can do is turn around a lot of Yoda's dialogue so that's it plays normally now (instead of "Blind we are if creation of this clone army...", "We are blind if creation of this clone army...", for example). But this recent technique I have is really making Yoda much more convincing for me. And it only takes a couple of seconds per shot! The funny thing is, the only reason it works is because Lucas' directing style is so static. Had Yoda's shots had a moving camera, this would never have worked because the zoom would've been choppy.

I forgot to ask this in my earlier post, does Yoda still fight Dooku?

If you mean with force lightning or with a lightsaber, no. I've left in the sequence where Dooku throws objects at Yoda, a la Darth Vader. I've intercut the scene with Yoda stopping the falling tower (threatening Anakin/Obi-Wan) and Dooku escaping with Anakin getting his arm chopped off. So Dooku's fighting Anakin, Yoda walks in, and Dooku turns around to face Yoda. Dooku realizes he's sunk and brings down the big tower thing on Obi-Wan. Anakin jumps out of the shadows in front of Dooku, only to get his arm cut off. Dooku force pushes him beside Obi-Wan. Now they're both under the falling tower. Dooku runs away and Yoda saves the day. The scene ends with the clone running over to Padme lying in the sand. Somber music plays as we cut back to the two Jedi lying in heaps on the floor. Wipe to next scene.

The only problem with this scenario is that I'm having a hard time establishing where Anakin is during the time period where Dooku is facing Yoda. How do I establish that he's waiting in the shadows for an opportunity, before the shot where he leaps out in front of Dooku, presumably to save Obi-Wan, Yoda, or both? I'm trying to work out a solution to that.

And I can't wait till the trailer *does happy crazy dance*;P

It's coming! I kind of feel like maybe the time spent on the trailer would be better spent actually working on the movie! But it's coming...

Trooperman--regarding music cues, have you considered using the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack?

Yes, actually; a couple cues from this soundtrack have already been incorporated into the film.


Also--I really like having Anakin become angry with Padme. It should give the scene some sorely-needed believability.

I definitely think it does. The original scene was the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen in a Star Wars movie. It scared me so much that originally I wanted to just cut the whole thing at all costs and never see it again! Fortunately, I was talked out of it, and recently I wrote this new dialogue to conform to the necessities of editing the sequence, which actually added a whole missing piece to the movie. In my cut, Anakin is cold towards Padme at the beginning of the morning scene where he tells her he has to save his mother. She says, "I dont' want to disturb you," and Anakin says, "It didn't bother you last night." Then, you go back to the "last night" scene at the fireplace, and you realize that nothing much actually happened. Padme basically told him it wasn't possible, told him to listen up, and put him in his place. Meanwhile, Anakin moped.

One of the original goals of the project was to remove any parts of the movie that came about as a result of Lucas' new philosophies, or politics, or what have you. Padme bossing Anakin around and Anakin behaving in a mopey and stupid manner was the PC thing to do in 2002. It is not classic filmmaking, it isn't good, and it's certainly not fitting to Darth Vader of all people. So I kind of projected myself onto Anakin and wrote some new and more appropriate dialogue. "You are asking me to be rational. That is something I know I cannot do. Believe me, I wish that I could just wish away my feelings." What kind of PC garbage is that? Anakin should be ANGRY, not whining about his obsession.

Here are a couple saber shots, Andy. Here's one of my first attempts (executed on a very small monitor), for everyone's amusement:

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/2599/nve00022copy17bz.jpg

And here's a screengrab from the current process:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3675/image30copy0dw.jpg

-----------------------

Oh, and by the way- I've decided that when I release my "press screening" or "test cut" to a couple people in a couple months, I don't mind if you copy that and send it to other folks that can't wait for the real deal. Like I've said, I would really recommend that most people wait a couple more months. The test cut will have a watermark or a logo on the image so that it is easily distinguishable from the real thing. This is to hold you guys over while I spend another couple months trying to figure out how to do chapter stops, menus, commentary, subtitles, PCM stereo with matrixed surround sound (this is hard), and the whole nine yards. I don't want to come onto the forum every week in October and November saying, "Sorry guys, it's coming. I had a synchronization error on the 247th subtitle and I now have to reauthor the entire disc." I want to be able to learn the technical process of DVD creation and authoring, knowing that the die hard followers of this project have the film to watch and review in the meantime.

And I don't want a feedback or review thread or anything at that point. Not until I release the single-layer and dual-layer version, with cover art included and so on.

-TM

P.S. Just one small request- does anyone happen to have the "Mine Car Chase" cue from the Temple of Doom soundtrack, uncompressed? I would hate to have to use the mp3 in the final project, and the official CD appears to be OOP. Just a thought...
Post
#221328
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221328/action/topic#221328
Time
Thanks, Darth_Newmacer! And MTH, that’s an excellent rewrite of that line. I’ll be recording that instead of the original.

I ended that scene like this.

Padme: I couldn’t do that. Could you, Anakin? Could you live like that?
Anakin: No. You’re right. (zoom). I don’t need you.

Now, a very Lawrence Kasdanesque type of ending to the scene would be to have Anakin shouting, “Or any other woman!” at the end. That may be going too far, I don’t know. If I do use this ending, I could use the original Williams music for the transition, which is much more dynamic (but inappropriate for the original ending). Anyway…


Thanks for all of your comments and questions, Andy. I don't like sugar-coating! I'll take your points one at a time (many of them have already been dealt with, however). I understand how long it takes to read this thread, so I understand how you could have missed some updates.


Originally posted by: andy_k_250
Alright, Trooperman - I finally read through this thread.

A general suggestion I have for your edits would be to view ChefElf's 64 reasons to hate "Attack of the Clones" (http://www.chefelf.com/starwars/ep2.php) if you've not already. You've likely seen it already, but just in case, it does offer a wide range of critiques (many of which you've already addressed). He has similar complaints about the whole saga.


Yes- I've read that before. Most of the things he had mentioned I had noted even before reading the list, though.



Lines/scenes I would like to see taken out (if they aren't already):
- "Jedi Poodoo"
- "stay away from power couplings" and the harmless shock
- the "nest of gundarks" crap and the uncomfortable laugh afterward
- Elan Slezzebaggano and his death sticks
- the Tusken raider "Ort! Orttt!" from ROTS when Palpatine mentions Anakin's mother
- "We don't serve droids?" (why not? you're a droid!)

All of that has been removed except for the death sticks scene. I got a kick out of it, and it establishes Obi-Wan's position at the bar, before Zam reveals herself. Except for the antennae on the guy, I don’t understand why people don’t like the scene.


Lines I would like to stay in (if possible):
- "You'll be the death of me."
- "Shut me down." (3P0 when he sees the factory - I know you've taken out the droid factory nonsense, with good reason, but that line cracks me up and seem very in character for 3PO - it would be great to fit somewhere into your PT)

"You'll be the death of me"- yes. "Shut me down"... no. Not in this movie, anyhow.


Things I am concerned about:
- "Also Sprach Zarathustra" to open the Obi/Anakin/Dooku duel?

No, it was distractingly familar and was not used. Instead, Count Dooku's new theme from "The Planets" was used.


- German for alien language (a lot of people know German - it's also pretty recognizable, even to people who can't understand it)

This is another recent development- the aliens are going to be speaking either Norweigan or Tagalog, not German. German was too well known.


- heavy reliance on non-SW films/soundtracks for music
I know- that's a drawback on this project. Lacking good original music for the movie, and lacking the resources to record a new soundtrack, I had to cop music from other places. There was just no getting out of it. But the important part to me is not what movie it's from, or if people have heard it before. If it produces the dramatic effect I'm looking for, then I generally go for it. I'm doing a lot of radical stuff in the interest of improving the project.

Be reassured that the final soundtrack to this won’t be a garbled, temp track style mess that doesn’t have any unity at all. Any new themes I’m introducing, I’m using leitmotiv on, as John Williams would have done. This isn’t meant to be an insult to John Williams at all; I feel confident that this soundtrack is the type of music he would have produced in the ‘70s-‘80s, with better instructions from the director.


- your voice (sorry - in the end, it is going to be the maker or breaker for this project)

Don't be sorry- several people have questioned the voice. The new dubbing is truly the biggest defining aspect of this project. Anakin's voice is probably the most critical in the whole movie, and it's being done by....a fan? You bet. There might be a couple lines that people will want redubbed in a different way, and if the viewers of the test cut reach a consensus, that’ll be possible. By and large, though, I think my ADR definitely surpasses the original. I think people will be surprised; it’s not a shocking, radical take on Anakin, it sounds very believable as a forerunner to the James Earl Jones voice. I'll be putting together a trailer soon, which will feature the new Anakin.


- I know it's awful to say this, but that test clip of Dune shots for the Clone War Battle reminded me of Turkish Star Wars - they looked like two different movies, put together, and I think I would have thought that even if I had not seen Dune. Besides, how do you reconcile the difference in armor between the Clonetroopers shown earlier and the samurai-dervish outfits from Dune? Where are they battle droids? The ships from Dune don't look like any of the vehicles on the map in the war room. I don't know, I just didn't dig it.

Again, I did some crazy things to get the type of style and shots that I wanted. The thing is, I think it'll be clear that this is from Star Wars after we cut back and forth between the Dune warriors and the clones/Jedi. Also, the troopers are set up in the secret conference with Dooku. You bring up the aircraft- if you're talking about the last shot seen in the clip, that shot's not in the final as of now.


Questions:
- Will Owen be Anakin's brother-in-law?


Nope.

- As far as the Kaminoans, is there any reason you can't have one speaking in an alien language and the other speaking English? You wrote way back that you really like the existing dialogue for one of them.


Yes, I thought Taun-We, the female alien, was done very well. It would’ve been a shame to have to dub her in a different language. And I wanted the two to speak the same language in the film. My solution was to have Lama-Su dubbed in English (with different dialogue). Nanner Split is hard at work on that, trying to set up the very difficult recording equipment.

- Did you take out the Geonosian's "Hyah!" when he whips the animal drawing Anakin and Padme's cart into the arena? My wife and I got a big kick out of that the other day, because of how anti-romantic it is following their "touching" scene, but at the same time, it works as a serious addition because of how brutal it is.


To be honest, I haven’t finished cutting that scene yet. It’ll be recut so that Anakin and Padme kiss as the music climaxes. Then, I was going to cut outside to the Geonosians cheering, so as to lose them kissing as they’re rolled out into the arena. This is a really cheesy shot in my opinion. But the short answer is yes. I’ll have them kiss, the Geonosian will whip the animal, and then we’ll cut outside to the aliens cheering as the music carries the scene.


Why was Padme missing her mid-riff, anyway?


It’s supposed to be because her shirt was ripped in her entanglement with her monster. In reality, it was Lucas pandering to modern trends. It feels extremely out-of-place, as though the sequence was put in so that she could run around the rest of the film showing her belly. It was, of course; it had no bearing on the story. Because of this, Padme gets less screen time at the end of my cut. It’s a personal irritation


- What percentage complete is this project?


I can’t really tell you that, because I have the film split up into 20 parts, and all of them are completed to some extent. Some (like the Coruscant sequence) are practically finished, except for a sound effect here or there. Others (like the clone war) I haven’t made much of a dent in. I will say that I am pretty much done from the beginning of the film until the “en route to Naboo” scene, except for Jar-Jar’s scenes and a little musical tweaking/rescoring.

- You say you like MagnoliaFan's Episode I. If you do your own, will you keep the Kaiber Crystal sub-plot in?


Sure- I’d like to. It was a good idea. However, I don’t know if my edit of Episode I will be possible. When I said that, I had vastly underestimated the amount of work and time that have to go into these. Since Ep. I is the one I technically am not needed for at all (no dubbing of Anakin required), it is likely the one I will not do.

There was a group effort to create an Ep. I that fit into my plan for the PT. These folks also wanted to extend the project to a saga re-edit (see the Starkiller Ranch thread). This was fine with me as long as my original intentions for my PT were understood.

- Your early lightsaber work - it looked bad in still frames, but how did it look in motion?


Screenshots to follow- I think you may be confusing an early attempt with my current process.

Granted, I have not seen anything near the finished product, so this is all preliminary judgement and not a fair trial of your work. Your choices are daring, so they will be great if they work, but - honestly - they will be awful if they don't. Is there any way you can repost any clips with your voice acting, or the German?


Ha ha! The trailer’s coming soon, my friend. There won’t be any German in this film, and my voice acting will be coming in the trailer. Please be confident that I would not spend so much time working on an edit highlighted by new ADR, and then botch the ADR. I realize you have no proof I’m a good actor, but I just ask you to wait and find out

Please don't take any personal offense to my comments. So far, you've encouraged discourse and criticism on your ideas, and I hope you take my ideas as the suggestions/concerns they are, not attacks. A project this big and time-consuming, I would like to see done right. Was that a Yoda line?)


No, thanks for your questions. No offense taken! And you’re exactly right; with a project so big and so eagerly anticipated by everyone, I’ve been very careful that everything is done correctly. That’s why I’ve pushed the deadline a couple times; I operate on the “slow and steady” tortoise theory.



------------------------------------------------------



I made quite a large breakthrough yesterday regarding digital Yoda. I discovered that by undersampling the frame rate to around 15 fps for his close-ups, combined with a new color scheme, digital Yoda now looks incredibly puppet-like. One of the problems with the CG Yoda is that some little detail in Yoda’s face moves every single frame. 24 frames a second. This is WAY too fluid. Lowering the frame rate made his movements less fluid and made him much more puppet-like. It was incredible how a little change like that made so much difference.

Also, I finally got the dramatic effect I was missing in the nightmare scene. It involved combining two different music cues (altering pitches and keys) to get the track that I needed.

Oh, regarding the lightsaber colors- if someone wants to rotoscope different colored sabers in the arena battle and see if it turns out well, then go for it by all means. But it ain’t me! I’ve got my hands full just rotoscoping Windu’s saber. And a long while back, we had a discussion on Dooku’s saber color. I decided to leave it red because I wanted to establish that he was a bad guy and in cahoots with Sidious. That way, in Ep. III, it is more clear that Sidious double-crosses his “friends”. Also, unlike MagnoliaFan, I see no point in ambiguity at this stage in the game. From the trial scene on, it’s clear that Dooku’s a bad guy. He gave orders to kill Mace Windu, for goodness sakes!

Honestly, I’m not as interested in more colors as I am in different shades of colors. Why are the red, green, and blue values of every single blue lightsaber the same? Because the blades were computer-generated. Each blade looked different in the OT, and whether it was intentionally or not, I liked the individuality it gave the sabers.

However, I really like the idea to make the kids’ lightsabers white in the Jedi temple. Why would they have blue and green already? This is a great nod to Lucas’ original attempt to do white lightsabers with reflective tape. The thing is, the only shot I’ve left in that contains the kids is not one where they have their lightsabers lit. This concept is a good one to carry over into Ep. III.


Thanks so much for your patience, guys! I'm working like heck to complete this movie in the best way possible.

-TM
Post
#220078
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220078/action/topic#220078
Time
I’m kind of swamped right now, and I’ll have a full response to everything shortly, but I wanted to check in and assure you things are progressing. I’ve made some additions as well, notably a bit of a confrontation between Anakin and Padme during the fireplace scene. The movie needed it for the new “leaving for mother” scene to work, and the actual physical editing also made it necessary. I would never have guessed before that this scene would become not only watchable, but a good scene.


Basically, Padme says, “I can’t.” Anakin is quiet for a second, then he says, “Why not? What’s wrong?” Padme gets up, saying, “You’re training to be a Jedi. I…I will not let you give up your future for me.”

Anakin (slowly getting up): So this was all just a game to you, huh? A fun little diversion.

Padme: No….
Anakin: Yes! You reeled me in, knowing full well you were making a mockery of me. And my life. (lip synched in place of “I wish that I could just wish away my feelings…”)
They look at each other, alternating. Then, Anakin turns around, walks to the other side, and says his line (“You know they wouldn’t have to find out about all this. We could keep it a secret.”)

So we are seeing Anakin get angry at Padme for the first time. This is one of the things that should’ve been set up in Ep. II to begin with; it was kind of a jarring change in Ep. III. We need to set up that this is part of his character. Plus, why would he take this garbage sitting down? He doesn’t like getting involved with someone, only to be fed a cheesy line like, “It’s not possible.”
More coming later, including an address of Andy’s list. Thank you to all of you who are helping out with this, Sluggo (who’s looking into the alien voices and foreign language), Nanner Split (who’s working on getting higher quality recording equipment to use for Lama-Su), and C3PX for helping search for dialogue (by the way, I don’t think the scripts are anywhere on the net. They were published in paperback some years ago, but I never bought a copy).
Oh, and I’ve inserted the shot of the clouds from ‘The Truman Show’. Wonderful effect. Wonderful scene now.
Post
#217564
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217564/action/topic#217564
Time
Originally posted by: musicman
Man, I'm gonna have to disagree and say I really enjoyed the asteroid field. It was one sequence where it really felt like Star Wars to me, particularly. And I thought the seismic charges were really cool.

That's my feeling on it too; why completely cut out the only space dogfight in the film? This is Star Wars! The other reason I don't want to cut the whole thing is because it would lessen Marcus' death at the end. And why would you sympathize with a kid you only saw in one scene? This scene establishes a relationship between father and son, and I think it'd be detrimental to cut it.

On the other hand, are all of the gaudy CGI shots really neccessary for this? Seems to me that the whole thing goes on too long, even with good music. I could be wrong, though; I need to play with it some more. The scene is just too colorful and razor sharp to seem real. I might have to do more than just softening it.

The reason I didn't want to cut the bombs sequence was because I have a very effective cut of that with dramatic music. I also replaced the bomb sound effects with more traditional SW explosions, which could be an unpopular change. It just really seemed like a modern effect. Right now, you hear the sound immediately as you see the explosion, but I like the sci-fi delayed sound concept too, and that's a quick fix if I decided to delay it for a split-second.

EDITED TO CLARIFY: As it stands now, I suppose the bombs aren't really "sound bombs" so much because you hear the sound in the traditional way- as the explosion happens. Perhaps this is more acceptable to some of you; I do enjoy the sound much more this way. You really get a different feeling out of the scene with toned down colors, better sound, and an exciting, synchronized music track. If there's any scenes that need music, it's traditionally the ACTION scenes. And as far as Boba Fett's annoying lines go... not so fast. Not so fast. I may have a surprise or two yet to come


OK, now the down side to this is that the fight is not serving the story as much as the story is making an opportunity to have a fight. I hated the original pacing in this movie, specifically how every other scene was designated a boring dialogue scene, and the other scenes were designated action scenes. There was no spontaneity whatsoever. Unfortunately, I'm hard pressed to fix that in this case.

But I've put too much musical and visual work into at least the seismic charges scene, continuing with the "He won't take a hint, this guy." tunnel chase. I'm thinking that either the lasers or the torpedoes might need to go to better serve the pacing (again, I could be wrong).
--------------

Originally posted by: andy_k_250


Sniff-sniff.

Just kidding. I'll just wait like everyone else. Fair enough.

Good luck with getting all the Niemodians' voices cleared away.


Hey, not so fast I never said you couldn't get a copy of the test cut, just that I hadn't decided on it yet. I'll figure it out in a couple months.


Originally posted by: Sluggo
Have you looked at Tagalog? I was listening to some Tagolog on the shortwave some time ago and I thought it was reminiscent of Huttese.



No, I haven't. Thanks for that suggestion! Do you mean the lines should be written in Tagalog, or do you mean actually synching existing Tagalog recordings to the characters?

I suppose I can dub the Nemoidians myself if it comes down to it, including Gunray. That I don't have a problem with.

Jar-Jar I do have a problem with. He really needs a fresh actor. I don't have the voice of a Gungan, I'm sorry! Maybe it's audition time again, although I'm not looking forward to a reprise of that headache. Before I found Nanner Split, there must have been 2 or 3 others that didn't come through for one reason or another (not their fault, though).

--------------

Several people have asked before if there's anything they can do to physically help on SOTDS, to give me more time on the things that need my attention. These are all things you might be able to do to help, and I'd be so grateful to each one of you that could do something....


1. The really obvious one that comes to mind immediately is Mace Windu's lightsaber. It would save me an incredible amount of time if I didn't have to do that frame by frame myself.

If anyone REALLY has a lot of free time on their hands and would like to rerotoscope Count Dooku's saber and any others, so that they look more vibrant and flickering, as if they were a source of energy--that would be utterly fantastic. I don't like the "4th of July light stick" look Lucasfilm seemed to be going for. Needless to say, I'd like them the same general color.

2. Another thing that would be a great help would be to go through the radio dramas and find workable C3PO dialogue for his introduction into the saga. I’ll repost the example here:


C3PO: I am See-Threepio, human/cyborg relations. At your service. So pleased to meet you, sir. I need not take the liberty to inform you that…(or some other typical 3PO ramble).

Anakin: I’m here to find my mother- Shmi Skywalker.

C3PO: Your mother! Well, the proper procedure is ….etc. etc. (blah blah blah- establishing him as a very annoying character from the get go).

Anakin: Just take me to your master.

C3PO: Oh, yes. I see. My master. Follow me, please.

CUT to EXT: Owen’s place.


Anakin: I’m Anakin Skywalker.

Lars: Owen Lars.

Anakin: It took awhile for your droid to take us here.

Owen: Don’t even get me started on the robot. He’s a protocol droid and he can’t even speak Bocce. The Jawa traders dumped him on me last month. (pause). I’ll give you 500 credits if you take him.

Anakin: Is my mother here?

Cliegg arrives and gives his little talk. “We have a lot to talk about.” He turns. We hear the sound of footsteps as they walk away.

It begins to sink in for C3PO. CLOSE-UP (CFSS)

C3PO: Sir, sir! There must be some mistake!

CUT to Beru serving drinks in next scene.

3. Perhaps someone could look into whether a Maul cyborg demonstration by Palpatine is even possible at the end of SOTDS?

4. We need a special effects artist. My two major dream fixes as far as that goes are putting Tarkin in the Senate, and replacing the excessive Jedi Analysis Robots with some kind of speaker/console type thing, like HAL 9000 in 2001. The style of the scene sticks out like a sore thumb, not only in this movie but also when you start comparing it to robots and information storage in the OT.

5. It'd be great if someone could figure out how to best go about changing the end credits sequence to include all of the new team that worked on this project. Everyone and anyone that gave me ideas through this thread is going to want to PM me with their actual name for use in the credits (much more professional than using forum nicknames). In the meantime, it'd be great to actually learn about the fonts and how you go about changing them. Nichols did it and Darth Editous did it, so I know it's not impossible.

6. If anyone can do sky replacement and some chroma keying that has more free time, I'm changing the funeral scene and the scene following it to sunset and dusk, respectively. Perhaps someone could work on that?

7. If anyone is experience on animation, even on a program so simple as Flash, I need new '70's style computer readouts for Jango's ship. Use the Millenium Falcon's readouts for reference- so wonderfully simple! A rotating square grid. It can be as simple as that!

8. And needless to say, anyone with good recording equipment is more than welcome to do any or all of the Nemoidians and/or Jar-Jar Binks.


I know that's a long list, guys. Maybe I should post it in a new thread so that more people will see it? Anyway, thank you all for the greatest help of all that you could have given me: your ideas. My 51 pages of notes for this edit certainly are not all my ideas. Thanks, guys! The big event is yet to come...

-TM
Post
#216737
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216737/action/topic#216737
Time
I'm very happy that people seem to share my enthusiasm for an Star Wars film noir. However...

Originally posted by: Marvolo
I can't wait!

Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
I can't wait for it.


NO!!!!!! Why did I just commit myself to another project, when I haven't even finished my first yet!

I'm kidding- it's all right. I probably should've waited until a little later to bring the idea up, though, because I want to start discussion now, even though it's much too early. But I find this idea fascinating. The best part is that you could perhaps finally preserve the secret of Darth Vader and Luke in TESB, by removing any reference to "Skywalker" that might exist in ROTS after the other footage had been edited out. You could also make Palpatine's line, "It wasn't the first time, Anakin. Remember what you told me about your mother?" CUT. You can really use your imagination here without having to adhere to the backstory provided by Ep. I and II. Also, to preserve the surprise, we don't see Padme give birth to the twins. In fact, Anakin can kill her on the spot, on the lava planet, through a couple extended shots.

Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Trooperman, that sounds like a great idea.

I'm a big X-Files fan and every now and again they would go out on a limb and shoot an episode in an unusual style, or have it all form the POV of one character, etc. I used to really enjoy those 'alternate' episodes, and I think this could work the same way.


I'll have to wait to discuss it fully, but what does excite me the most about this is the medium, which allows for so much creative opportunities. Really, I had this idea of ROTS as a complete departure from the style of the other films, long before I saw it. Some of it (like a title-card sequence) actually came to me in my sleep. Fancy that! When I actually saw the film, I was more impressed with the cinematography in general, and then just recently this idea started to develop.

-TM
Post
#216731
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216731/action/topic#216731
Time
Hi-

I'm sure everybody and there mom would like to get a preview of Shroud of the Dark Side.

I know- that's what I was afraid of. Forget I even said that- I'll deal with it in a couple months.


I don't know which category that puts me in - someone with great interest in the project or just a person that likes fan edits but hasn't heard of the changes in advance - but I would be happy to help review if you think my position would be of value.


Thanks, Andy. For the person who doesn't know of the changes in advance, I was thinking more of someone like Moth3r, or Zion, or Jay, or someone else that doesn't have any clue about what I'm doing. Send it to them with a message like, "This is my first attempt at an Star Wars edit. Hope you like it." And let them discover it for themselves and give me a report on what it was like to take it all in with no prior knowledge of what was coming.


Trooperman - what editing tools are you using for this project?

I'm using Vegas, which interacts with SoundForge (which I also use). Along with Photoshop, these are the big tools. Of course, there are all kinds of nifty little freeware programs for specialized tasks, but these three programs are really the big ones.

As of a couple days ago, I now have no risk of losing anything, because I'm now working off of an external HD with a firewire connection. The actual widescreen DVD files with PCM are still on the internal, but those files are contained on a backup anyhow, should anything go awry.

So now, none of us will be confronted with the ugly surprise of, "Trooperman's PC crashed and all the files are gone. No Shroud of the Dark Side." I should've done that for April Fools

------------


In the Starkiller Ranch thread, there's been some discussion about the Niemodians' voices. I apologize if you've answered this before, but what were you planning on doing with those?

Hey Erik- you bring up good points here. I am in a genuine dilemma about the alien voices, Jar-Jar included. Backwards audio sounds awful. I was originally planning to purchase the German DVD's and use those for the dubs, but as I realize how big this project is becoming, I don't know that I want to do that. There are Germans or German-speakers on this forum, and they will be utterly distracted by the voices. How would it feel to hear an alien saying something in English, and seeing different subtitles underneath? How could that not be distracting?

So I’ve dropped the German idea; it’s too widely known. MagnoliaFan apparently got his hands on obscure foreign language tracks for all three prequels, but none of us know where that’s going at this point. Also, it’s not as if I would automatically get these dubs from him even if I did know what was going on. So that won’t work.

Finally, the latest solution was that InfoDroid on Ep. I had secured voice actors for the Nemoidians, and the guy dubbing Nute recorded all of his dialogue- for Eps. I and II. However, this won’t work for a couple reasons; InfoDroid is no longer communicating with me, and apparently CC either didn’t like the new dubs or never got them. Either way, I don’t have them.

I’m going to need to figure this out really quickly, considering September is the deadline (for the DVD-5 test encode, at least). Should I record it? No matter what inflections you put on it, you start to recognize the same voice if it’s overused. Is it too late to hold a very quick audition? At this stage, I just need something; although I didn’t want to follow the George Lucas pattern, I suppose I could go back and re-edit SOTDS to include new dubs, if Ep. I turns out to use different actors.

Oh, and here’s another thing I was thinking about; what do you think about a shortened asteroid chase? I was running into real problems picking music and keeping the tension up, particularly with the lasers scene. Then, I began to realize that it’s so full of “action” and fast shot after fast shot, it actually holds up the pace. I’m considering removing the lasers scene and going straight to the torpedo. Those shots are excessive anyway, in my opinion, whereas the torpedo scene is more functional and something they would have done a few decades ago.

-TM
Post
#215728
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215728/action/topic#215728
Time
Thanks again, jra, for those tower images. I don't know if I'm going to use those (a little bit elaborate for what was intended as a more basic shot), but I'll definitely check out the "Truman Show" for the cloud shot; it's perfect.

And thanks for the comments regarding the trailer, Knightmessenger and Darth Richard. Maybe I will do a teaser like the S.E., and then for the theatrical, just make it as though it was always that way- it's a good idea.

Work continues... I'm a little behind on my completion plan, but I'll be catching up soon. I've plowed my way through so far all the way (besides the Jar-Jar dialogue) until the nightmare sequence, which I'm still trying to find the best cut for. I don't want to lock it down yet, because there are a couple shots I'm not happy with.


I also have another idea once I do complete this movie- I want to do a quick single layer encode with no extras and send it to a couple folks with the highest interest in the project. A common editing phenomenon is that after you stare and analyze something you've done a million times, it starts looking good no matter what. This could be what happened with Grevious. After hearing it over and over and over, you start to get used to it. To an actual audience member, the voice sounds extremely stupid.

I want to pick a couple with great interest in the project, as well as one person that likes fan edits but hasn't heard of the changes in advance. I'd like these people to get me a written report as to what (if anything) was jarring in terms of editing, pacing, or dialogue. Then, I can implement any changes into the much more time-consuming dual-layer encode for general release. The first version could also hold over those of you who are losing sleep because this isn't in their DVD player yet (where are you, MTH?)

Sound good to you?

-TM
Post
#215724
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215724/action/topic#215724
Time
Originally posted by: shanep
Wow. So make it look like it was shot in the late '40's-early '50's?


Yes, which works nicely because this time, the rotten CGI was mostly confined to Upatu and the wookie planet. Using everything else, especially in black and white, would give this the right feel, especially with Hermann music. I know this wouldn't be popular with some, but maybe even editing off of the full-screen ROTS DVD might be the right way to go for this project. That was pretty much the aspect ratio back then, after all.

Also, I think this project would really appear to the strict OOT fan, who hates all of the prequels because no matter how much you edit them, all of the Geonosis/Upatu/Wookie planet stuff can't be removed. If we do a single, old-fashioned prequel with flashbacks and Anakin's narration, and the script is well written, I can envision lots of people enjoying this movie at the same level as the OOT.

The point is that going into the noir style of filmmaking/editing would let me get away with a lot of stuff that I would love to do for Anakin's backstory, but simply can't due to the original framework. The best part is that this project wouldn't take as long as "Shroud of the Dark Side", and I'd have some of the dubbing already completed for the "big budget" Starkiller Ranch ROTS.

And this project would involve such incredible creativity in scriptwriting. I mean, we were unhappy with Anakin's portrayal throughout the PT; Shroud of the Dark Side is going a long way to fix that, but a black & white noir film with narration (kind of like "Blade Runner") is also a great excuse to completely rewrite Skywalker's corruption and his rationale for what he did.

This is all stuff I would be afraid to do in the "official" color edit, of course.

-TM
Post
#215706
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215706/action/topic#215706
Time
Originally posted by: boreddusty
Ranch window dressing???


This is why we should generate another title for this series

Anyway, as most of you know, my vision was always a set of prequels that actually fit with the OT to begin with, no re-editing of classics necessary. I also don't think you can get much better than "Revenge of the Sith" for Ep. III; that's really a perfect title. And again, unless someone generates a very good original name, I'd just leave it as "Star Wars".

I also want to let you know about another idea I've had for an editing project, which I think would be very fun for all involved. It probably will not fit with the "Ranch" idea, but I might actually do this after "Shroud of the Dark Side" is finished, before Ep. III is started. Maybe not, but I want someone to do it eventually...

Watching old b-features and old detective movies like "Laura" really got my brain cranking. I thought... what if Star Wars was originally a noir movie from the '40's and '50's, very old-fashioned and in black & white? Later on in the seventies or eighties, they made the very popular Star Wars trilogy, but this is the original film made a long time ago. Imagine that it's another thing Lucas suppressed!

My idea is to make "Revenge of the Sith" black and white before editing, and make the whole film about Anakin's fall. None of the Grievous stuff, or most of the opening battle, or other stuff that's both unneccessary and would give away the CGI as being modern. There would be no crawl, but instead an old-fashioned title sequence, perhaps with stills of close-ups of the characters. The title could be "Anakin Skywalker."

The major point is that everything is made to give this movie an old feel, older than the '70's-80's. Lounge music is used for the temptation scene at the theatre. Classic Bernard Hermann music is used for most of the rest of the score, "Marnie" and "Vertigo" type stuff (but not as well known). I know we can't use the iconic "Pyscho" music, but I always envisioned the shower music when Anakin walks into the room of children.

Here's the other big thing: In this version, Anakin is dubbed, and he is narrating the entire story. At certain points in the movie, when you have a close-up of Anakin, the narration can take us back to flashbacks from "Episode II", from the love story. A very "noir" thing to do.

And lastly, the audio will have more treble, more of a raw feel, and it'll be stereo or mono. I don't know if I've explained my concept very well or if it'd be enjoyable to watch to any person but me, but I just love the idea of getting into Anakin's head through him narrating the entire picture and showing flashbacks. The cinematography in Episode III (at least the dialogue scenes) was very good this time around, making this type of thing possible. But here's the thing: how much better can you illusrate Anakin's fall than walking around with him the entire movie as we hear his thoughts? Obviously, some GREAT scriptwriting would need to go into Anakin's narration, but

Anakin: That's Palpatine. Supreme Chancellor Palpatine. The most powerful man in the galaxy and one of my dearest friends. Ever since I arrived at the Academy, I had spent long hours talking with him in his office (as we're fading to a flashback of the Anakin/Palpatine scene from Ep. II).

Anakin: Yes, I never realized how naive I was until I met him...


Obviously that was just off of the top of my head, but do you see what incredible character depth could go into this "old" movie, a single prequel to the Star Wars trilogy?

-TM
Post
#214456
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214456/action/topic#214456
Time
Thank you for those screencaps, jra! The cloud shot from "The Truman Show" looks pretty much perfect. I may brighten up the sky a bit for consistency with the surrounding footage, but I will definitely get a hold of "Truman Show" for that shot. Screencaps of the other shot would be great as well!

Also, if you liked those pictures I could dig up a ton more for you if you want to use the promo images.

Thanks for the offer, Twister; I'm not exactly sure what direction I want to go with the trailer. Maybe I'll make a couple. At first, I was thinking of one that ran all of the awful dialogue from the original, and then the Star Wars logo comes on the screen, and the announcer lists all of the features of the movie.

"New footage"- You see the clone war shots from Dune
"Improved cinemotography" - You see the balcony scene and the droid factory
"New voice actors, characters, and plot"

"Hyperspace" track starts. Many shots containing new dubs shown.

"And..a few other surprises".

Mace fires up his blue saber.


The other type of trailer I was thinking of was the classic "Starring: Ewan Mcgregor" style trailer, and just let the changes come through over the course of the trailer, rather then advertising them like you would be above. I don't know; I just think there are a lot of people who might be interested in the project, but they don't want to keep up with this sprawling thread. Creating a trailer and giving it its own thread might generate some more interest in the endeavor. People will actually be able to see that the ADR was successful and have a little more faith in the project. Because it was a radical idea, it really is. The thing is, most of what I've been doing can't even be summed up in a trailer; it's all about the feel of the movie, the soundtrack, the cuts that were made. The ADR and new effects are just an added bonus that contribute to the "classic" feel I'm working toward.

I want to finish the trailer immediately after I receive ADR for Lama-Su, which should come in late June.
Post
#214454
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214454/action/topic#214454
Time
Hi there!- I don't really count as a special effects person. Most of my visual work has been colors/lighting, impact flashes, rotoscoping, and cinematography (changing the framing, making the camera move, and so on). When I want to do something radical like replace the Analysis Temple robots or put Grand Moff Tarkin into the Senate, I'm just as helpless as you all are.

Please come to us, Mr. Star Wars Special Effects Artist- wherever you are...
Post
#214162
Topic
1977-->1993: What?!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214162/action/topic#214162
Time
That's correct. The ADR heard in the '93 version was present in the original stereo version. which is actually an earlier mix than the mono.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the '97 mix (to my ear) sounds like a different recording than EITHER of the two ADR jobs. At least part of the ADR is different in the SE (presumably carried over from the 70mm?). It is definitely more similar to the stereo ADR than the mono ADR, however.

But yes, if they use the '93 audio, then their claim that this is the original version of SW as seen in '77 is false. Of course, their claim in '95 that SW was presented in the original version was also false (it contained the "ANH" crawl).

If they made false claims before, I don't see why they can't do it again.
Post
#214157
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214157/action/topic#214157
Time
Thanks so much to everyone for pointing me in the right direction.
There's a sky shot in Kurosawa's Ran that might work. It's during the attack on the one sons house by another son. It shows the sunlight's rays coming down with the sun obscured.

I'll be borrowing that immediately.

Perfect Cloud shot in the Truman Show... 1:27:51 in Reverse. I really think this will work

And for the tower shot, the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, might need to be darkened, but try the 15:17 Mark and 27:48 Mark. It should blend in quite well.

Jra166ptd, thank you so much for signing up to help me out! Would it be possible to upload the shots you're talking about? No problem if you can't; it'll just take me time to get a hold of copies of those films.


Yes, BTTF part II intro.

If you need the clip or screenshots, I can supply them if you don't have the DVD yourself.

Thanks so much, HAL. I don't own this DVD (or for that matter, any of the others mentioned).

If anyone could upload screenshots of what they're talking about, that'd be great too!
Post
#213613
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/213613/action/topic#213613
Time
Thanks for all the support, especially boreddusty. Thanks so much for signing up to support the project! I really didn't know what I was getting into when I first began this thing What a complicated project this is turning out to be!

Well, too bad that the OT DVD's won't be anamorphic, but as I wasn't expecting ANY kind of official release, I suppose it's better than nothing.

And the final name of the bounty hunter is... Marcus Fett. It's my favorite and met with wide approval. I have contacted "Nanner Split" with dialogue and instructions, and the recordings should be in by the end of June.

I finally sat down and tackled the second scene of the film, the scene in Palpatine's office, editing it all the way through. I had to make a couple changes to what I had planned, just to making the editing work. Firstly, to retain the long shot at the opening and maintain some kind of lip synch, Palpatine’s line “My negotations…will not fail” was moved until after Windu gets his complete thought out. “We’re keepers of the peace”, and so on. Palpatine says his line and we get a “wronged” close-up of Mace, followed by a close-up of Yoda as Palpatine says, “Master Yoda.” In response to the question, “Do you really think it will come to war,” Yoda simply says, “Impossible to see, the future is.”

Hologram audio is a little tinnier and more shrill to match OT.

OK, the big change is that Padme’s question, “Do you have any idea who’s behind the attack”, and Windu’s response about the spice miners has been reinstated. There were a couple reasons for this, one of which was that it was simply impossible to get Mace from one location to the next professionally without this shot (in which it’s obvious that he’s talking). One second he’s sitting in his chair, and the next, he appears standing next to Padme at the bottom of the stairs. This would show tell-tale signs of “fan-editing”. Also, Padme’s question is a very natural one, and actually the whole reason Yoda’s line was changed to, “In grave danger, you are” was so that Padme could actually say that line without seeming rude after Yoda’s (now cut) kind words. So those lines will stay; I know that Mace’s “intelligence” is bunk, but you don’t find that out until later. Not a big deal compared to the drawbacks of removing it.

So work continues- I have the film split into 20 parts and am working through each part in an organized fashion until each section is perfectly complete, at which point I move on to the next section. I’m not doing this in order, and there are many sections that will be easier to complete because most of the work is already done.

And thanks for the images, Twister .

---------------------------------------

There are a couple shots that I desperately need but have been unable to locate. One is for Coruscant at night, meant to go before the interrogation on the streets. The type of shot I’m looking for is this:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4073/smokestacks3ai.jpg

It adds an atmosphere I’m not achieving with any other existing shot. This angle would work as well:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9679/smokestack1oe.jpg

I also need a shot similar to the following for the Naboo picnic scene. It is the second to last shot, preceding the final shot as they look at each other. The idea is that gray clouds are covering the sun, so that the last shot is considerably darker than the others before it. This is adding subtext and making a comment on the Anakin/Padme affair. Like it’s being frowned upon from the sky, or something of that kind; it’s up to audience interpretation. Anyhow, I desperately need a shot like this in DVD quality:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4258/clouds4ml.jpg

Thanks so much for your help and patience,

-TM
Post
#213592
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/213592/action/topic#213592
Time
Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
You know, we might be able to get Coruscant into ROTJ if we leave the emperor's throne room on the DSII, and make Endor the sanctuary moon of Coruscant. Think about it, this would be the second time that Sidious, in orbit above Coruscant, in the middle of a battle, played an perspective apprentice against his number 1 sith.

The rebel briefing will need some tweaking though:
    I think we should convey that the DSII has moved to Endor, the moon of Coruscant, for the final phase of its construction. This makes it more believable that the rebels just found out about it.

    Cut the mention of the bothans.

    We also need to convey that the rebels realize this is a risk, but the imperial fleet is beleived to be engaged elsewhere.

    We will need to maybe redub Admiral Ackbar to give a little extra exposition that the rebels are going to Endor, the forest moon of Coruscant.


Ultimately, I think this is Commander Courage's call, since he knows what resources are available to us.


I say go for it (along with CC's original list of great changes and resequencing). Replace the musical number in Jabba's palace for something good. Perhaps do a bit of score replacement (use "Anakin's Theme" from Episode I for the Vader unmasking scene). THAT is a version of ROTJ I'd like to see. Also, if at all possible, wouldn't it be great to reinstate the subplot where the Emperor decides to actually blow up Endor if anything goes wrong? In fact, the moment things start going wrong, wouldn't it be great to have a countdown (like in the original SW!) to add some tension? Problem is the unmasking scene; could that be done on Coruscant? We're running into logistics problems, but you understand me.

I also like the idea of Endor being kind of an "Imperial park". If it could be set up, it'd be great; after they think they've "tamed" the little beast, they revolt and join the Rebels.


Originally posted by: Commander Courage
I have returned! Sorry for the extended absence; real life takes precedence. This is going to be a slow process, as I did not expect to have to take over the project so completely. It's a new experience for me and I hope to be able to deliver. Once again, any assistance of any kind would be more than welcome.


Hey, great to see you back! (did you receive my PM, BTW?). Don't feel bad, because in your hands this will be done a heck of a lot sooner than it would be by the time I got to it. I'm just happy there's another editor still working on this. Episode I is a huge project, and I actually think I might have been burned out after Ep. II and III. It's just a massive undertaking to do it right, and that's why I'm happy that there are fresh minds working on that. I'm putting pretty much everything I've got into Ep. II.

Nice to continue the discussion!

-TM
Post
#209428
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209428/action/topic#209428
Time

I actually would vote for Mark Fett, but that's just me.

Better than Mark would be…Marcus. Marcus Fett.

That has a nice ring to it- I kind of like it. I know it’s a name in “Raiders of the Lost Ark”, but I still like it.


And that's a very good suggestion (regarding the lightsabers in Eps. II and III). I'll see what I can do about that. In the original "Star Wars", when Luke first fired up the lightsaber, it just seemed so powerful and filled with energy- and not commonplace at all. I'll see what I can do.
Post
#209258
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/209258/action/topic#209258
Time
Ha ha! Obviously I wouldn't use Jim or Mark or anything like that- it doesn't feel right. However, I've seen so many complaints about the names in the prequels, and "Dooku" and "Jango" were always high on the list. I realized that I could change "Jango" to whatever you guys come up with. But if you like "Jango", that's OK too- it wasn't really a sore point with me.


That is an amazing tranformation of that scene now, it adds a more "adult" dialouge tone to the whole cloning situation.

Thanks! I like writing.