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Trooperman

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15-Feb-2005
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15-Jun-2015
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Post
#236797
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236797/action/topic#236797
Time
Hello folks!

Originally posted by: Darth Richard
will the screenshots be soon

OK, after a little more comparison, I take it back. This font is not exactly the one used. It's ITC Franklin Condensed Medium, modified slightly. I can tell because the thickness of the letters is a bit different. But it's so close that it looks virtually the same if you don't have both fonts on the same card. As an experiment, I did this. The top credit was always there, and the bottom one is new: link

As you can see, "GEORGE LUCAS" looks different from credit to credit. What this means is that I'll probably just redo the card completely using the blank starfield plate. Here's an example of that technique: link

Anyway, this is good news because it means that all of you contributors will not simply be tacked onto the end of the movie- you will actually be physically in the credits, replacing names like "Rick McCallum" and "Eli Sleazabaggano".

Originally posted by: Weezer12
Trooperman, what music are you using in the Obi-Wan/Dooku scene? The scene always seemed to work for me with no music, so I'm interested in hearing what you've chosen.


It's easiest just to post a clip comparison:

Clip from SOTDS
Corresponding clip from AOTC

As you can see, music greatly enhances the scene in this case. I understand the importance of spotting, of course, and that you shouldn't just add music to everything, but music came into this scene anyway- a little later on. This music has a purpose- to bring home the fact that Qui-Gon is still a sensitive topic for Obi-Wan, even 10 years later.

You'll also notice some minor dialogue alterations and close-ups. Notice that with the improved cutting and music, McGregor and Chris Lee actually come off as good actors. When you watch the clip from AOTC, you get the opposite impression.

Originally posted by: Sluggo
Maybe you could use a compromise. Have Obi-wan's voice turn on and off when Dooku wants to talk to him. It would keep prisioners from calling from help.


That's an idea. I'm not exactly sure how I would implement that, though.


Originally posted by: Darth Richard
I'm just sort of thinking out load but what if for the "A Long Time Ago....." you changed it to the original version from the lost cut of STAR WARS.
I think it would be really cool if you have it say "A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, and incredible adventure took place..."

Also one other thinking aloud kind of thing. Is ther anyway to write somthing somewhat poetic and have it before the "A Long...." and have it be from The Journal Of the Wills?
Maybe something like "During the time of the Clone Wars the chosen one was being tempted but the Dark Side". But something far more poetic.


That's a really good concept- for a saga edit. Recall that my original intent was to make a PT that worked with the original Star Wars trilogy, without having to alter the latter. That's why I was using the original title card in the original font.

If I can figure out seamless branching in time for this release, then this may be a possibility, though. Remember that I'm a newcomer to DVD authoring.

-------------------------------

After thinking about it for a long while (and trying different things), I've finally figured out the physical way that Dooku is going to knock Anakin out of the picture. Anakin will run at him, and Dooku will use the force to throw a heavy object at Anakin, knocking him down. The shot of the object coming directly towards camera was taken from the Yoda combat sequence, and I've cropped Yoda out.

Then, there's an exchange:

Dooku: As you can see, my powers are far beyond yours.
Kenobi: I don't think so.
Dooku ignites a RED saber (revelation to audience).

Dooku: Let me show you.
Music builds, cut to the clone war going on outside.


The problem I'm still having now is this- how can Anakin's run at Dooku be somewhat justified? In this movie, Anakin is considerably smarter than his counterpart in AOTC. How does this work?

Is he angry at Dooku for having hurt Padme? That might not work too well because it's not really a direct connection. But here's a sample exchange:

Dooku turns around as Jedi enter room.
Anakin: I hope you know I'm about to slash you into ribbons for trying to kill Padme.
Dooku: Come, come. You enjoy killing as much as I do- admit it.
Anakin: No!

Anakin rushes Dooku, Dooku makes the gestures, and the object flies towards camera. A loud "thump" and Anakin's cry is heard off-camera as Dooku smirks. Cut to Anakin lying on the ground.

Another possible line for Dooku (to be fit in somewhere if called for) is, "Oh, but I forgot that the Jedi don't consider it sporting to kill in cold blood, do they?"


My question to all of you is: can any of you think of a better line for Anakin? Even if it sounds dumb to you, post it anyway; my mind can be set off in strange ways.

Again, I'm sure you're all wondering why this is taking so much time, when other fan edits are whipped out in a matter of weeks. And what it comes down to is the sheer amount of new stuff that has to be integrated, combined with the level of quality that I want to achieve. For instance, I was just watching a couple of other edits and noticed some very distracting flaws. When a shot was recolored, the color would change a few frames before the shot actually changed (in Nichol's edit). This is actually the glitch that I was describing earlier that I needed to fix. In MagnoliaFan's edit, the film actually changes aspect ratio several times. It's a shame because these things bring down otherwise good edits.

But absolutely nothing is going to get past me on this before I release it to the public. I set rather strict standards as to what I will release. It's rather disheartening, actually, knowing everything that's going on regarding HD-DVD. I don't want this to become obsolete. But as I've said, I may have a way to create an HD copy of SOTDS without any additional work, simply through file substitution.

Then again, an HD SOTDS would require not only an HD Attack of the Clones, but an HD "Blade Runner", an HD "Truman Show", an HD "Citizen Kane", an HD "Dune", and so forth.

I'm rambling again! I have one more Clone Wars screenshot comparison:

AOTC
SOTDS

I was actually able to salvage a lot more of the Clone War footage than I thought through different cropping techniques. There were a few shots that I refused to use, but a lot of them (like this) actually worked out. Notice how the droids are desaturated and blended with their surroundings, but the yellow sky is still retained.

-TM

P.S. Please consider the dilemma with Anakin's run at Dooku and make suggestions


EDIT: Is it true that over 5000 people have visited this thread? That's a scary thought. Or is it just the same people over and over again?
Post
#236428
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/236428/action/topic#236428
Time
Originally posted by: Weezer12
Hey Trooperman, I just had a really random thought.

Is it possible that you could add a cool, alien-sounding "filter" effect to Obi-Wan's voice as he hangs in the stasis cell on Geonosis? I always figured that since he was behind some sort of energy containment chamber, his voice would sound as if it were, too. The best idea I can think of for this would be how Mystique sounds in the X-Men films, maybe even more pronounced than that.

What do you think?


That's a really good idea conceptually. However, I wouldn't want it to interfere with the acting (oddly enough, this is a really good scene now, with the right music cue). I'll have to think about it- thanks though!

-----------------------

An urgent request- would anyone who owns "Man with the Golden Gun" mind ripping audio of Chris Lee saying, "Forget the girl, she's replaceable." ? I've just realized this line is critical to the editing. Thanks a lot!


By the way, I'm very happy because I've just discovered (after a lot of trial-and-error) the font used for the ending credits in Star Wars. It's literally the exact same font. Screenshots to follow....

-TM

Post
#235417
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/235417/action/topic#235417
Time
Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper


The Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie movie? It's not in B&W, but some desert scenes may be viewed through green-tinted binoculars.


Oh, I'm sorry. I was thinking Hitchcock! Had I done a little research, I would've realized there was a remake.

Originally posted by: musicman
Independence Day might have a shot you could use. There's lots of footage in the desert in that movie, and a lot of explosions. There's bound to be something!


Thanks for the suggestion!

----------------

I've spent several days on this clone war sequence, and I cut it many different ways before I was happy with it. Now, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's spectacular, even without all of the sound FX. There's a driving force with the music, and a feeling of wonder at what's happening along with it, whereas in the original cut it came off as extremely unmemorable and unimportant. You'll see what I mean when you see this version; I have put the magic back into Star Wars.

As a sidenote, do you think it's a good idea to put the Darth Vader breathing sound at the end of the film (like in the original release of TPM)? I was planning on doing this.
Post
#234868
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234868/action/topic#234868
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
I have it on good authority that Nute is being recorded today. Jar Jar hopefully next week.

That's great news- thanks so much. The sooner the better, but take all the time you need. I really appreciate your taking on such a big ADR role.

Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper


This may sound crazy, but I believe there are some shots of stuff in the desert blowing up in Mr & Mrs Smith.


But isn't that in black and white? Correct me if I'm wrong...

I can't think of any other film in which I've seen something like that. Well besides RotJ ...and of course that's out.

Well, you know it isn't necessarily out. If I found something appropriate that I could recolor and recrop, I don't know if most people would pick up on it. It isn't preferable, though- you're right.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Hopefully I can find something that'll work...
Post
#234404
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234404/action/topic#234404
Time
Originally posted by: hairy_hen
I just watched Episode 2 again this week to familiarise myself with it again, as I hadn't seen it since last summer, in preparation for making my recordings. I'll be starting those pretty soon, methinks.


Excellent! Everything is proceeding as planned....

Well, almost. I don't want any of you to get worried, but after I installed a heavy-duty piece of software on my computer (video related), I got a very interesting glitch in all of my SOTDS project files. It's kind of hard to explain, but what happened is that somehow, the frames in all of my individual clips or shots were moved forward two frames. In other words, in files when I changed things on a shot by shot basis (which is most of them), you'll be looking at a clip, and on the last 2 frames of that clip, it'll move to the next clip. Then, when you get to the REAL next clip, the colors and cropping change on the 3rd frame of that shot. Don't ask me how this happened as I have absolutely no idea.

This should still be out by Autumn; all it means is that I have a lot of annoying and brainless work to do to correct this problem. I'm leaving little details like this for later and am instead concentrating on finishing the movie in some form for the time being. I guess I should be lucky that this is the first technical problem I've encountered so far.

-----------
One more question for you: Do any of you know of any movies with really impressive explosions in the desert? Without anything that would prevent me from using it in SOTDS? As this clip demonstrates, I'm having to cheat a bit in the editing to imply something, much the way it was done in the original SW. But the last explosion in that clip (from Lawrence of Arabia) blends very badly with all of the other footage.

I'd hate to have to use this, but this is one of about two desert explosion clips that I have. Do any of you remember something similar from another film?

-TM
Post
#233896
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233896/action/topic#233896
Time
Originally posted by: Marvolo
Why?


You'll find out more about my personal situation later, but I'm going to have a lot less free time on my hands in the future. But I didn't mean that I'm definitely just going to do one more film and that's it. We'll see. And I certainly won't leave you all hanging with this new PT. I don't know; I'll think more about the whole thing after this film is out.

Oh- and I forgot to respond:

Nervous? Ol' TM's about the nicest guy on the boards.


I certainly wouldn't say that, but thanks anyway All of you guys are great; do any of you think I could've started a thread like this at a place like TF.net, and gotten this kind of support and help all of the way? You are all intelligent and give me great feedback and help, and keep me in check when I go too far with something. Every filmmaker or editor needs the voice of reason.

And all of the new character voices!- you're not going to believe it, but the current total of characters with new voices in this film alone is up to 9. Absolutely fabulous! Thank you to Nanner Split, Sluggo, Jeff Vitkuske, hairy_hen, and others for making it all possible. If everything goes to plan, I should have all of the dialogue besides hairy_hen's by the end of the week. I'm not exaggerating when I say that the audio track to this film bears almost no resemblance to the original one, in every aspect. Volume of the music, raw sound effects more in keeping with the originals, and an (intentionally) more ragged 70's feel. Not to say it won't sound extremely clean and professional, but in listening to the sections that have a finished sound mix, it has definitely lost the "modern" film sound. Which I think aesthetically is a good thing for this movie.

--------------

Just to keep you up-to-date on the progress, I am currently working on the clone war, which is unbelievably complex to tie together. It's the first time that I've actually considered storyboarding the action in preparation. Up until that point (besides the arena), I've pretty much hacked my way through the whole film. Many sections are extremely polished already and actually ready for final printing, colors and all, and others need quite a bit of audio work yet. The latter applies to most of the scenes with Anakin's voice. I have procured over a hundred outdoor ambiences and atmospheres to help in this task. They are all uncompressed and sound wonderful. I have very few indoor ambiences, however. A big challenge is making my voice and Portman's sound as if it's in the same space. Oftentimes, this involves not only altering my dialogue recordings, but hers as well.

Also worth mentioning is a weakness in this project I hadn't counted on; before, Portman's delivery went more unnoticed in the original, in contrast to Hayden. With the new recordings replacing Hayden, her acting really stands out as being awful in this film. This is the main negative effect of the dubbing I've experienced so far.

Anyway, we had a conversation several months ago about a critical moment in the movie- Anakin's rush at Dooku. I would like some of your input again, as to how we can make this justifiable and not suicidally stupid. To recap:

1. Dooku does not use force lightning.
2. Dooku basically force-pushes Anakin off-screen, by implication. Anakin runs, Obi-Wan yells "NO!". Dooku makes a gesture, and there's a close-up of Obi-Wan looking on in despair as the music builds. Cut to Anakin sprawled out on the floor. (This seems better artistically than actually seeing him thrown, but it's done because it was the only option!)
3. The idea was that Anakin was angry at Dooku for some reason. The reason we came up with was that for some reason, he thought that Dooku killed Padme.
4. This only makes sense if Dooku says something to that effect before Anakin's mad dash.

Any thoughts? Here's a link to the previous conversation: Page 29


Here's the other thing- who would be the best person to contact about the font of the end credits used in Star Wars? I specifically want to take out a few names (like Rick McCallum, Elan Sleazabaggano, and so on) and add many names. There are the obvious ones, but also all of those that have contributed to the thread that would like to be listed. I am absolutely clueless on the correct font/settings for this, however. In a few weeks, this will be something I'll need to tackle.

Thanks so much!

-TM

P.S. I have located the shot of black smoke rising in the air for the Coruscant interrogation scene that I was looking for. I'm not going to tell you what movie it's from, as it might distract you.

EDIT: What the heck. I colorized a shot from Citizen Kane But you wouldn't know if I hadn't told you...
Post
#233079
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233079/action/topic#233079
Time
Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
But we will still have Jar-Jar's speech. His character has to go somewhere in this movie; he has to be there for a reason. Just cutting him out doesn't seem to solve anything in the big picture.

Trooperman, I wasn't suggesting you cut Jar Jar's speech - just the visual closeups. It would be great if we could get the "meat" of Jar Jar's speech while only seeing him in the distance. Maybe we can even start to hear him as Mace walks in.

Right- I understand what you meant I was just clarifying as to why I didn't want to cut his speech altogether.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: calisto
Originally posted by: Trooperman


This sounds like such a GREAT idea & something TOTALLY different to all the other Ep III edits, I say go with what you want!!!


I guess the issue is that I probably only have time for one more Star Wars film...
Post
#233056
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233056/action/topic#233056
Time


Here's what I recommend:

Wipe to Yoda and Mace looking over the senate (wait until Mace has stopped walking in to start the wipe). Jar Jar is talking in the backround. Subtitles state that he proposes giving emergency powers to the Chancellor. We hear some cheering.

(Cut closeups of Jar Jar, all the senators gesturing, and the "or-duh" guy.)

Cut to Palpatine standing up and saying: "It is with great reluctance ..." etc., giving his whole speech.

Pan back to Yoda and Mace. Mace says "It is done, then." Yoda reacts. Wipe to next scene.

This is a good idea, but I do thing it'd be more natural to wipe to the establishing shot, and also to keep the shot with Mace walking down the hallway. At least the first part of it- I don't want to cut out the guys that look like the Imperial guards. That's one costume they actually managed to get right. But I especially like the idea to cut the speaking close-ups of Jar-Jar. That shot or two was ridiculously animated (but kind of hard to avoid with Jar-Jar. But we will still have Jar-Jar's speech. His character has to go somewhere in this movie; he has to be there for a reason. Just cutting him out doesn't seem to solve anything in the big picture.


Hmm...yeah, I thought there was one shot...uh the one that seems to be a zoomed in shot of a Tuskin shooting. Anyway...


This is the documentary shot I referred to.

Originally posted by: SomethingStarWarsRelated


I'm thinking about maybe asking someone else to tackle all of the Upatu/Kashyyk stuff in the style of SOTDS

Interesting...you mean as far as editing style goes?


Yes. I'm just getting a headache thinking about dealing with Upatu, the whole General Grievous problem, and all of that. I wish I could just axe that whole silly thing and film more interesting stuff- like more Imperial troops, a couple more scenes illustrating the addictiveness of the Dark Side, maybe a torture scene inflicted on Padme by the Emperor (remember, we're supposed to hate this guy). This after Palpatine's Ep. II line "To lose you would be...unbearable" would be great. Anakin actually killing Jedi rather than kids would be nice, and it still makes me sick to see Yoda with a lightsaber. I don't know- I just can't stomach it. And the saber fight at the end was emotionless and awful. The only redeeming part of the fight was the music, which still wasn't up to par with the classic SW scores. The delivery of the twins was awful. The romance scenes were awful (which can be fixed to a certain extent).

I'm rambling. But I see much less potential in this movie than I did in Ep. II, despite the superior cinematography. There are too many unfixable blunders in the basic storyline. Whereas Ep. II was brought down mainly by its horrendous execution, the problems with ROTS begin with the very basic path of the story. Yoda and Palpatine have a saber fight, for example. Dooku gets killed at the beginning and a new CG villain is introduced and killed off within an hour. That's why I was considering a completely different approach for Ep. III- a black and white noir film, with Anakin narrating and with flashbacks (a la "Laura", "Blade Runner"). This cut of the film would use classic Bernard Hermann music and completely excise General Grievous and all that nonsense, focusing entirely on Anakin, his narration, and his spiral downward. I would have incredible freedom in the story as a result of Anakin's narration.

Obviously this doesn't fit into the "Starkiller Ranch" idea, but this approach to Ep. III excites me much more than making the companion film to SOTDS and trying to salvage everything (which is nonetheless obligatory for me). This doesn't matter right now anyway- the funny thing is, I thought ROTS was pretty decent when I first saw it, but on subsequent viewings, I really began to dislike it.

Originally posted by: hairy_hen
The trailer for this looks like it's going well, and I'm very excited to see the finished product.

You mentioned the possibility of redubbing Mas Amadda's lines to get a better voice. He's the blue guy who says "O-dah!" etc. I'd be interested in doing that, to see if you liked how I did it. (If not, that's fine, lol.) I have done some acting and work with accents in the past, though not all that much.

Actually, I'm nervous of volunteering, but hey, it's worth a try at it.


Thanks so much for volunteering! PM sent
Post
#231928
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231928/action/topic#231928
Time
Keep in mind that we can have this both ways. Here's what I had in mind:

Palpatine: But what senator would have the courage to propose such a radical amendment?
Close-up of Jar. Wipe to next scene.

What I meant was... do we want to actually see Jar-Jar's speech or do we want it to be implied?

Originally posted by: musicman


Originally posted by: Trooperman
Also, I've just realized that I hate the voice of the blue guy that stands next to Palpatine (don't know his name). He has only three or four lines.

"Oh-dah! Oh-dah!"

That's the guy, right?

That's the guy! What a dumb accent. "Emergency pow-ahs." It's even more irritating when you realize that that character should be Tarkin.

Originally posted by: PaulisDead2221
Originally posted by: stossmoI agree I would also propose to remove the "if only senator amidala were here" nonsense...earlier in the movie she is the leader of the opposition with regard to the military creation act, lets not pretend that just because the droid army was amassing that she would not only change her opinion but be the poster-senator to propose this 'radical amendment'. Then in Sith she still wants the fighting to stop....



I wonder how he later explained to the senate how he got a clone army so fast...I wonder why nobody asked.


Another thing I wish I could change but can't. I can't rewrite the story; I can only take what we have and put new things into it.

Originally posted by: Marvolo
I have always hated the idea of Jar Jar handing the emergency powers and the republic to Darth Sidious. Plus if you remove the entire scene, then the suspense in the arena would be higher because you don't know that the jedi and the clones are coming. I do hope you remove it.


But it doesn't have to be that way. I have cut that conversation with Yoda and Windu. Mace says, "It is done, then," and the scene ends.
Post
#231576
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231576/action/topic#231576
Time

-Yeah, I’m not sure about some of the color correction. The moonlight scene is a little…eh. But there’s probably no way around it, so I’ll deal with it.

No, there probably is a way around it. The general consensus seems to be that it has too much of a blue tint to it. Also wanted to point out that the shot in the trailer is a bit different color-wise than what's actually in the movie. I used a different color blend that subtly changes during the panning shot for the movie, which I did differently (and more quickly) for the trailer.

-Shmi’s dialogue and scream *does* sound canned. You could add some reverb to her voice and make it sound more dream-like.

I noticed this as well. I think I need more source material; the quality of those recordings originally is actually pretty awful.

-The ANH and TPM clip will work, I guess. I know you tried to disguise the clips and make it more like a dream, but us fans will know. And maybe that’s not really a problem!

I used some footage from Star Wars, but none from TPM. Maybe you're mistaking a shot from the "The Making of Star Wars" documentary from 1977.

While I'm on the topic, I was wondering if anyone happened to have a better cap of that shot from the documentary? I have the shot from the RowMan edition, which is overly compressed and not acceptable quality. I also need track 10 from the Ep. II soundtrack, if anyone could help out with that...

Lama Su’s voice: Amazing! Great new dialogue!

I knew you all would like Lama-Su, and you've just gotten a peek at the new script for those scenes that have been recorded. Now all I need are the 2 missing lines from scene 1...

I know this is really too early to ask, but: Are you planning on playing around with ROTS?

Gee, I hope so. Although working on SOTDS has been fun, it has been murder to fit it into the schedule. However, I will do ADR for ROTS at the very, very least- otherwise the series would be incomplete. I'm thinking about maybe asking someone else to tackle all of the Upatu/Kashyyk stuff in the style of SOTDS, and then I'll complete the Anakin/Palpatine scenes and the saber duels personally.



And Episode I will be in good hands, I believe. I may be able to help out with that as well, although the nature of the film, with the ridiculous costumes and cartoonish Gungans, will probably make it impossible to achieve the level of Ep. II. This is stuff that you can't take out. Portman's awful accent, Jake Lloyd, the whole boring plot... the list goes on and on. The visual design in Ep. II was such that what was already there could be altered so much that it seems to fit in the OT style, with the exception of Anakin's stupid ponytail. How I wish I could digitally erase that!

What Ep. I will have going for it, though, is an intriguing storyline set up through subtitles (kind of like MagnoliaFan's), great music, and a good, quick pace. I really enjoyed the Ep. I opening that PaulisDead posted in his thread; it would start the saga on an exciting note.

Side note: I think it would be alot of fun to have Anakin say: “I have you now!” just like in ANH. Not sure what scene though...

Good idea for ROTS.

I like the voice, but my problem with it is that it sounds too voiceoverish, like the quality was great, but it sounded like it was recorded in a booth too much.

Again, I think (correct me if I'm wrong) what everyone's saying is that the quality of voice and acting was good, but the way it was mixed is jarring. And that there are a few lines that are too low.

By the way, "He held me back" and "I will be the most powerful Jedi ever" are both from the garage scene, which I recorded when I was sick and in a bad mood. This was very appropriate for that scene (as if Anakin had been crying beforehand and his voice was hoarse), but the other scenes are not like this. The other low line, "When I first started my training.. etc." is actually from the Arrival on Naboo scene, and the reading will be redone for the final film.


There's still a bit of purple glow around mace's hand. Not that big a deal but it's there. *shrugs* overall a fine looking saber.

Yes, yes... the purple glow is still there. If I have time, I'll try to remove it, but when inserted into the movie, I don't think it will be noticed, particularly by someone without prior knowledge.

And thanks so much for uploading it to Youtube, Weyseed! And I'm glad you liked the voice. I do think that once it's properly mixed and people see it in context, they'll get used to it. I know I have (but it's my voice, of course)


I'm not sure if you've already mentioned it but quickly i'll ask, was the "don't you touch me, AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH" a temp place-holder for something else? It's uh, it's a little cheesy. heh.

Ha ha!- The "aaaaaaahhhh" sound effect is a very cheesy stock sound effect and will probably be removed. "Don't you touch me" was an actual line, however.


Congratulations! This one seems like a winner so far. Maybe we'll finally have the sequel to Balance Of The Force.


I'd rather it not be thought of that way, because that wasn't really the goal. MagnoliaFan did give me a couple great bits of advice on this, but this isn't meant to supplant "The Clone War". Rather, this is a completely new deal.


Of course, the best recording would always be to actually use a voice-actor that has a deep voice. Short of that, just trying your darndest to make your own voice deep is most times preferrable to using a filter to make it sound that way.

I did use a couple filters to reduce hiss, but at no point did I alter the pitch of my voice. It is what it is

It sounds like the voice is echoing or something

Again, this is a trailer defect and not a movie defect.


And the voice is a little low. But it definitaly a step in the right direction.

At least does everyone agree that from what you've heard, the acting will be an improvement over Hayden? I know you haven't heard much, so I'll be posting a couple more clips in days to come.


Great work. Have a good break, then GET BACK TO WORK!

Ha ha! I'm back to work, Mark. I want this to be done more than you all do.

--------------------

I have a question to pose to all of you. Opinion question: Do you want Jar-Jar's speech to the Senate in the film or out of it? (subtitled, of course). In Nichol's version, the scene begins with Palpatine standing up.

Also, I've just realized that I hate the voice of the blue guy that stands next to Palpatine (don't know his name). He has only three or four lines. Only one of them requires lip synch.

Is anyone up for this? If not, I'll ask in the General SW discussion forum.

Thanks!

-TM
Post
#231013
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231013/action/topic#231013
Time
I'm back! (and working on the film, of course) Again, thank you so much to everyone for your thoughts and comments on the content of the trailer. Also, sorry about all those who've PM'd me- it'll take awhile due to the irritating 25 PM limit.

I've gone back through my recordings and looked at some of the scenes I've dubbed, and the voice really isn't that low in general. Another factor is this- I thought everyone would like the low voice for Anakin, and I selected lines that emphasized that for the trailer. I can post a couple of clips from scenes that have already been dubbed to show you what I mean (you'll get a whole different impression- I did purposely select low lines and low takes of the lines you hear in the trailer. And again, as you know, I have not done the final mix yet, with blending and ambience and so forth. It will be a waste of time until the video is completely locked down, because I alter things frequently.

With that having been said...

Originally posted by: musicman
WOW! This trailer has got me very excited, Trooperman!

The overall look is very cool. I'll need to see more, but the picture doesn't seem as overly sharp as it was in the original. The extra battle footage (from Dune, I assume) mixed nicely with everything else and has me really psyched up for the Battle of Geonosis.

Thanks- one of the shots from the trailer is actually from Lawrence of Arabia rather than Dune. I guess the fact that nobody mentioned it indicates that it blended well.

I'm intrigued by the look of the conveyor belt sequence--it reminds me of ESB sort of.

This is good! Wait until you hear the music for that scene...

I think the biggest thing about it is that, as you mentioned, the mixing isn't finished so he sounds very prominent and not a natural part of the soundscape. But the acting is sounding pretty nice, and I think it will help tremendously once you have finished the sound editing. Nice work!

This is very true- the volume of the voice is high, partly because I'm not finished and partly because I wanted people to be able to hear it adequately.

Originally posted by: Laserschwert
Looks really promising I must say.

- There are a few contrast problems... the moonlight scene's contrast is way too high, making it too dark. If you look at movies using day-for-night shots, you do see some details in the mid-range. The droid factory-scene (though color wise just perfect) is a little too dark as well... you might want to raise the level of the mid range, keeping the blacks where they are, but giving a little more detail in the darker areas. Generally your contrast levels are a bit inconsisent, especially comparing some of the original EPII-shots, and your color corrected ones... your's are generally too dark.

So, I hope you don't mind this nitpicking, after all you wanted criticism

This is very good criticism. I was worried about the contrast, too; I certainly don't want to flatten all of the blacks and lose the details. I've viewed my trailer on other monitors, and it looks a lot darker. Maybe my monitor is set lighter? I will be raising the master brightness at the end, to be safe, but for now I'm doing it based on what looks correct on my monitor (a fairly large one).


Thanks for the hi-res logo, Erik!

I will agree that the dialog during the balcony scene about his training is a little difficult to understand; maybe it can be articulated a little more.


I have different, more articulate takes of this line. That take is gone; it kind of trails off at the end.

Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Wow, fantastic trailer! Mace's blue saber, new colors, Dune footage.....whoa!

And as for Anakin's voice...well, wouldn't you be striving to sound more like Sebastian Shaw that JEJ? Just a thought.


Well, I always figured that Sebastian Shaw sounded the way he did because he was old and he was dying. I didn't want to base Anakin as a young man on Shaw (and frankly it never occurred to me!)

Originally posted by: C3PX
Very impressive! I really like the new colors, takes away that fake entirely-filmed-in-front-of-a-green-screen look.


Thank you! This was a major goal of mine.

in ROTS he went from his whiney Hayden voice straight to JEJ once he was in the suit.


Which I hated.

----------------

I'm sorry- I don't have time to respond to everyone, but I'll pick up where I left off a bit later.

Thanks so much for your support! May the force be with you,

-TM
Post
#228819
Topic
Episode II: The Gathering Storm
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228819/action/topic#228819
Time
Originally posted by: dumb_kid
I always thought that a nice piece of humor would have been.

Obi- Go find him.
Ani- I think he's a she.
Obi- Well then be Extra careful then.


Just take out the changling bit out.

$0.02


This is what I did in SOTDS. Unfortunately you have to synch Anakin's line ("I think he is a she") to a different shot in order for the flow to make sense.
Post
#228817
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228817/action/topic#228817
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage

All that said, I would like to propose something to you all. I know most, if not all fan edits, have a certain degree of secrecy to them. General items are discussed, but the specific details are kept secret until the final release. Even on such a community-driven project as Trooperman's there is a lack of specific disclosure. Anyway, what I'm getting at is things can either stay as they are on this project with little to no progress until all the pieces fall into place, OR, I can post verbatim the exact plans and outlines for everything. There is a certain appeal to the element of surprise, but as things stand now I really don't see the harm. Starkiller Ranch is about as community-driven as you can get. Perhaps having it all out there for everyone will provide the spark to jump-start things back into motion. The only real drawback I can see to such a complete disclosure is that people would get so caught up in arguing how things should be we wouldn't get anything done (as was a problem earlier in this thread). I'm no dictator; this is a democracy, but everyone is not going to agree with everything 100%. There has to be a final say on things, and I would suggest that final say be me, as eventually, I will be the one putting all this together.

Thoughts?


The thing is, Episode II worked very well as a community thing, with everything out in the open and being discussed, because we all had the same types of ideas in mind. There was a much clearer path to excellence. But there are a million different ways to handle Ep. I, and many are valid. People are going to disagree on fundamental concepts and ideas. However, it could be terribly interesting to let everyone discuss fundamentals and make their case for each idea (as far as the main goals for the project, the character of Gunray and Jar-Jar, etc.). I was set on certain thing in Ep. II, but often in the creation I would be persuaded to do something different because I realized the idea was better. wouldn't make irreversible executive decisions yet, and seeing as this project is at a stall for the time being, there's no better time to open up the subject again.

I agree that there is kind of a leadership in SOTDS that's missing from this project (at this point). My only thought is that perhaps CC, Preston, MTH, and others will be inspired enough by SOTDS this fall that some similar ideas and breakthroughs will come about for Ep. I (similar to the breakthroughs I had in SOTDS after watching other great films outside of Star Wars). As Preston's pointed out, it does make sense to screen SOTDS before starting work on Ep I, because they are intended as part of the same series. You'll also get the general mood and the editing style.

Once you've settled on the basic concepts, however, you have to stick with them. Regarding the voice of Jar-Jar and Nute Gunray- these are both being voiced by Sluggo for SOTDS. It's up to him and to you as to whether you want to carry this over into Ep. I or not. I would prefer that you did, only because I don't want to put out an SOTDS SE with new voices.

Sooner or later, a solution will present itself with this project. Again, CC, I'd recommend multiple editors on this, because taking the whole thing on yourself takes such a big chunk out of your life- I'm not doing this type of thing again by myself. A shot by shot remake of sorts was just too much. I suggest you all discuss exactly what you're to do until SOTDS comes out, and then several designated editors view and study Ep. II to get the style of what is to be done, so you're all on the same page. Then, split up the film among the editors and then have a final editor like CC or myself (or both) that ensures that we come out with a cohesive whole.

With a project as big as this one, I think this approach would be superior to a one man endeavor...
Post
#227696
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227696/action/topic#227696
Time
Audio mixing/ambience problems? Missing sound effects? What on earth are you talking about?

That was a deliberate creative decision!



Hi! I don't have much time, but I wanted to check in. Thank you so much for giving me all of those comments and technical observations. Just wanted to clarify a couple things:

1. At no point in the process did I artificially lower my voice. The pitch of the original is the pitch you hear.
2. I don't really want to raise Anakin’s voice artificially. What I CAN do is do some pickup recordings for lines lower than the others, to make it a little more light and more fitting to his age.
3. Video- Yes, the blacks are sometimes crunched and the sunset is a bit too saturated. All of this is comparatively very easy to fix, on a shot by shot basis.

4. Regarding the technical deficiencies of the audio throughout the trailer- you’re absolutely right. There are a couple lines that sound like I’m talking through a tin can, and there’s the one in particular where I’m mumbling and the line is hard to understand. Obviously this will not exist for the final film. Much of the excessive reverb you hear was actually hastily added for the trailer and has not even been tackled for the film yet. I also had to raise the volume of some lines so they'd be audible over the music. And in some shots, the effects weren't even put in yet. I'm not very good at trailer creation.

The actual mixing of the audio and so forth has also not been done yet for the most part. Right now, I’ve almost completed the framework, then I’ll finalize the video, and only then will I start tackling mixing, making everyone’s voices seem like they’re in the same space, and doing ambience and foaley effects. This is very difficult for someone that’s never done it before, and my thinking was that rather than waste all kinds of time at first mixing all of the audio, I’d just get the film done first, and then tackle all of these issues. Mixing should be up to professional quality by the time the movie is out.

In the mean time, it would be wonderful, Laserschwert, if you could search for ambience and foaley effects. I am really lacking in that department; I would probably have put out a request for that type of thing in the near future. I made so many alterations that in most cases, I can’t use the original effects due to interference with music/dialogue (even in the rear and center surround channels). I have to start from scratch. I’ve had particular difficulty with missing footsteps, the rustling of the clothes, and so on.

The trailer is very sloppily and hastily done, and should not be taken as an example of how the final mix will sound. This is an extremely complex and unparalleled process, and I haven’t gotten to most of it yet. I sometimes wish I was in a whole networked lab or studio, where I could cut each scene myself and then send it to the color timing guy, who would do his work based on my notes, who would then send it to the audio mixer, who would analyze all of the source material (from the original surround mix and his library of foaley effects) and them, using my temp mix as a base, creates a professional audio mix with all the bells and whistles. All while I’m busy on the next scene.

Of course, if I had that situation, then I might as well buy a camera and reshoot the movie. One can dream…

---------------------------------------

Thanks to everyone that contributed and gave me all of this feedback! Don’t think for a moment that somehow my feelings are hurt; I’m glad that you brought these things up (many of which I was already aware), because it shows you’re as concerned about the outcome of this as I am. Thanks so much! Lama-Su seems to be very well received, which is also good. I think the more you hear of him in the future, the more you’ll like the voice.

BTW, I have a super hi-res version if you need one.

That'd be great!

I just wanted you all to know I won't be glossing over anything. The audio flaws you mentioned are doubly apparent to me (except the actual pitch of the voice). This wasn't a representation of the final quality of the product, as much as a sample of two of the four primary voices in this edit. Uncle Owen, Nute Gunray, and Jar-Jar are in progress at this time. I will answer specific comments later. Thanks so much!

-TM
Post
#227176
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227176/action/topic#227176
Time
I just wanted to check in here before I leave. Thanks to all of you with feedback!

Of all the things I was anticipating you'd say, I have to say that Anakin's voice being too low took me completely by surprise. I do see where you're coming from, though- because the thin kid onscreen doesn't seem to match. I can already see another possible problem inherent in this; people who have seen the original (basically everybody) are going to be expecting Hayden's voice. It may not work as well in your brain because the face and the voice are so connected at this point.

However... the complaint is legitimate. I was basing my readings more on JEJ than on Hayden. What lines in particular (just from the trailer) sounded too mature for Anakin? All of them?

I'd also like to hear a bit about Lama-Su and Windu's lightsaber from you all. I know only 3 of you have responded, but at least a dozen of you have downloaded the trailer. Let's hear more of you!

I'd love more honest comments like the above.

Thank you for the comment about the sound effect, Darth Richard. The mix is actually different in the film, but I wanted it to be heard in the trailer.


3) Right before the speeder dive, I don't like the line 'I hope you like Flying'. 2 reasons, they are already flying, and it sounds like a forced/obvious nod to Obi's dislike of flying. I don't think it fits well. What about a simple 'Here we go!' or 'Hold on'? This is more OT like. When Han solo was about to do something, it was 'watch this' or 'hold on'. It causes The audience to get ready for this as much the characters around him.


You're right. It's kind of forced, so that after the chase, Obi-Wan can say his line, "I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide." (see, Anakin's line about "I forgot you don't like flying" is cut). However, "Hold on" sounds a lot more natural. I think I'll make that change.
Post
#227115
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227115/action/topic#227115
Time
All right. I'm leaving tomorrow (vacation) and have had very little spare time, but I still wanted to upload a trailer rather than let you down

Trailer

It's a bit over 30 MB- I'm sorry about the large file size. It's also in the "Real" format; I tried to encode it in something more universal, but had difficulties and fell back on this. It'd be great if someone wanted to reencode it at a smaller file size or upload it somewhere else so everyone can see it who wants to.

I've discovered that doing trailers is.... very difficult. This trailer isn't very good by any stretch- there are some missing sound effects, and the pacing/rhythm of it is all wrong. I also came nowhere close to covering all of the bases in terms of what all will be in the edit. Also, noise reduction has not been applied to Anakin's voice or Lama-Su's voice yet for the trailer, so watch it knowing that things will be less sloppy and more clean in the actual film.

Still, it answers the question somewhat of what Anakin and Lama-Su will sound like. I might do another version of this trailer for the DVD, that is more professionally edited and that encompasses more of what I've done. But I wanted to get this out there before I left.

Nanner Split: I told you that your lines were great! They turned out well because you put all of your effort into the raw recordings, thinking that that was how it was going to sound. When the recordings were pitch-corrected and reverb was added, then you heard how you actually sounded. I'm very happy with how they came out; all I need now is your 2 missing lines of dialogue.

Thanks as always for all of your support, guys. I may be able to check in here a couple more times this month, but maybe not, so please keep this in mind.

-TM
Post
#226914
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226914/action/topic#226914
Time
Trooperman, here is the stormtrooper voices. I hope there are some lines in there you can use.

Thanks, Marvolo. I actually already had those recordings in my collection...

Sluggo and Laserschwert, I'll get back to you as soon as possible.


I will be releasing a trailer tomorrow. It doesn't feel like a modern movie trailer, but it gets the job done, I suppose. I wanted to get it done before I leave the state in a couple days. Stand by....