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4-May-2006
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26-Apr-2012
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Post
#228328
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228328/action/topic#228328
Time
Originally posted by: CO
But in 2004, when he just put out the SE on DVD, that is when he turned me from a Lucas defender, to a Lucas basher for ruining the OT by putting Hayden in ROTJ. That change alone keeps me from every popping in ROTJ SE, cause it is just so bad it is insulting to take out an actor who is dead now in real life, Sebastian Shaw, and put in Hayden as some gimmick to tie the trilogies that Lucas couldn't do while writing them. This is a gimmick to tie the trilogies, plain & simple, this has nothing to do with vision, or Lucas would have put some 20 year old actor in there in 1983!


After episode 2 and episode 3 of the PT I lost all of my respect for Lucas, but I was still able to be friendly somewhat. I felt sorry for Lucas and the Star Wars universe, since they were being transformed into shit, but that's not a reason to be angry. It is the travesty you mention there that truly brought out the recent anger in me. He wants to trick us into buying complete shit by calling it "Star Wars"? I'm not going to stand for that.

This thread makes me not want to buy these upcoming versions. Even as much as a disk return campaign sounds fun, I don't want these DVDs.
Post
#228325
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228325/action/topic#228325
Time
For me the issue isn't what the prequel trilogy needed. I came into the PT experience expecting nothing and hoping to be entertained with all-new material. I didn't even need the movies to be great or good. Phantom Menace is my favorite movie of the PT despite its large flaws. That's probably because it's more focused on entertaining people than making sure that we all know its fucking connected to Star Wars.

Instead, we had so many elements of the prequel trilogy simply and boringly rehashing what the original trilogy had already established in a superior way. That served no other purpose than to ruin the OT. That is something nobody needed.
Post
#228061
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228061/action/topic#228061
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O
To a lot of people, OOT are the trilogy and the SEs are sort of a novelty. George, or course, disagrees.


I believe the majority of fans over the age of thirty consider the original theatrical versions the real movies. I'd hope that the majority of people around my age (twenty-six) would agree with that assesment simply because we grew up loving those versions on tv and on VHS. But, even if the majorityt of Star Wars fans preffer the special editions, I believe the vast majority would love to own the original theatrical releases. That's why they should be given the proper treatment.

At one time I thought the special editions were a good idea. I loved seeing them in the theaters. Yet I would have never seriously believed at that time that Lucas was actually going to try using all of his power to completely erase and replace the original versions with his revised edits. All of the inventive and artistic genius that made those films the historic achivements they were is now to be casually thrown out the window because George Lucas feels like it?! Well, I've since come to learn that George would love nothing more than to do that very thing and hell if I'm going to be happy about that. Since then, I've also come to hate the special editions despite thinking they were okay.

As movies the special editions are watchable and they are still ery good movies. In fact, I love a lot of the additions. Unfortunatey, some of what was added went way overboard and served no purpose other than lowering the dramatic pacing and emotional impact of the films. (Like Greedo shooting first. Or Jabba letting Han step on his tail as he yelped in cartoony fashion. Or having Bobba Fette in episode IV before he had even brought Han to Jabba yet. Or all of the unnatural looking windows and lighting digitally added to sky city. Or Darth Vader saying "Alert my Star Destroyer to prepare for my arrival" in a pathetic sounding voice instead of his old line which stated, "Prepare my shuttle" and just dripped with anger and frustration. Or the incredibly intense and moving escape to hyperspace sequence completely ruined by a completely useless scene of Darth Vader landing on his Star Destroyer?!) I'd rather have my original versions even without the added coolness than ever bring mysefl to watch that crap. I'm sorry.
Post
#227568
Topic
OT.com = TFN?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227568/action/topic#227568
Time
Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
I was banned for using the term apologist.

You're kidding, right? I can't think of anyone who'd be offended by that word. It just means someone who justifies or defends an idea through argument. That website sounds really sad.


Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
In the grand scheme of things, a message board is just a message board and of no importance. Still, behaviour like what has been described in this thread and the "Basher's Sanctuary" thread really makes me sick. It also makes me extremely curious as to what the people who act like that must be thinking to rationalize their behavior. Obviously they must think that what they're doing is "right," but how can they possibly think that?


Exactly. A poorly-run message board only hurts the people who use it. Anyone of intelligence, no matter their viewpoint on subjects should not support such childish and paranoid behavior from one side or another. The poor little deranged fools.

Unfortunately, as I said earlier, I lose some hope for mankind.
Post
#227565
Topic
Alternate Title For Episode III
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227565/action/topic#227565
Time
I agree completely about the establishing shots. It felt like an incredibly long episode of ST:TNG and not much like a movie at all.

Otherwise, there was a very confusing mess of locations and characters which constantly had to be re-established every 5 minutes because of all the loose ends that generalfrevious mentioned. Making that even worse, however, was the way George Lucas was compelled to totally ruin every possible feature of the Star Wars universe. In other words he felt the need to tie loose ends that weren't even related to the main story for no other reason than to spoil their mystique. For some unfathomable reason he couldn't leave even the tiniest of story elements ambigious for our sake. He's twisted and evil.
Post
#227458
Topic
20 years ago, would anyone believe...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227458/action/topic#227458
Time
Originally posted by: andy_k_250
- That Palpatine dreamed up an overly elaborate scheme to pit an expensive robotic army (paid for by him?) against an expensive clone army (paid for by him?), all to destabilize society enough for him to sneakily snatch power over the course of several years, rather than staging a military coup with his combined forces.

I know! It was all so absolutely pointless. The PT movies tried to display Palpatine's "plot" as subtle and ingenius, but even basic analytical skills would clearly reveal how wasteful and simplistic it all was. The only reason his plans worked was because the old Republic was even more incompotent by comparison and on every evel.


Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
-That the special effects of 1977 would look more realistic than the effects of the new millenium.

-That George Lucas would resent and loathe his fans.

-That Lucas's new millenium movies would be all animated with a few live action charecters.


All three are sadly too true. The third one most of all. After RotS I'm surprised that GL even found the need to film real people.
Post
#227278
Topic
20 years ago, would anyone believe...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/227278/action/topic#227278
Time
Great list so far. And that was a great response to that Randy fellow from Gaffer. I laughed.

Originally posted by: JediFlyer06

That Darth Vader, king of all villains, would or even could be ruined by Lucas, let alone reduced to a whining, adolescent puss whose turn to the dark side is a grandious way of crossing his arms and stomping his feet at not getting his own way.


Amen.

I would add:

That Darth Vader turned to the dark side because either 1. He justifiably cut off an evil Sith warrior's head, or 2. Because he desperately wanted to believe obvious Sith lies (from an obviously evil Sith lord) which told him that the irrational murder of innocent children would somehow save his wife from a hazy and indefinite threat that might not have even killed her for all he could have known?

That Darth Vader's complete transformation into a machine-man took place in the span of a few hours?

That Darth Vader didn't hunt down or kill any real Jedi of any notoriety, but instead only murdered a bunch of young children in Jedi training?

That the incredibly expansive organization of the Jedi were not hunted to extinction over many long years but were all simultaneously fooled at the same time by many different but equally obvious plots to kill them?

That it was simple, pathetic, and inept Storm Troopers that killed practically every last Jedi without even the slightest fight (except for Yoda and Obiwan)?

That the Jedi were a pathetic police force under the direct control of the republic?

That the Jedi, despite having immense and mystically special knowledge about everything, visions of the future, and advanced (magical?) monitoring technology, couldn't see a completely obvious conspiracy forming plainly in front of their collective faces?

That the rise of the Empire and the decline of the Republic was a pathetic little and forgettable war between some pointless droids and meaningless clone troops?

That all of the Storm Troopers are meaningless cloned troops?

That the “clone wars” didn’t affect much of the rest of the galaxy or ordinary people in any way unless they happened to be Wookies?

That the Death Star was not the greatest military project commissioned by the Empire but a weapon designed, financed, and built all in secret by the Sith?

That the "Sith" were a large sect of warriors comprised of one man . . . occasionally two?


(Edit: changed some wording.)
Post
#226873
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226873/action/topic#226873
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr

If he REALLY wanted to please us, he'd do what Spielberg, Cameron, and so many other directors have done- he'd give us BOTH versions of the OT in beautiful, anamorphic DVD transfers, and let US choose which ones we want to watch. I think his pathological desire to relegate the OOT to second-class-citizen status, outweighs even his desire for $$$. (IMO)

Hmm, yes I agree, but based upon his own statements, Lucas believes that we are an insignifigant minority. He truly and actually wonders if the OT on DVD would even make a profit. Just think about that for two seconds! Those are not the words of a healthy mind who simply acts out his disdain for OT fans. He's insane.


Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit

I just don’t see anyway it could be taken as anything but a dig at the President. I also think that Lucas figured it would slide past the casual viewer, appeal to his buddies like Spielberg and he figured those “astute” enough to catch the jab would either agree with him or not be in the theatre to begin with.

Let me stress what I said the last time I brought up this subject just so I can be clear on my motives. I’m a moderate and an Independent I’m not a big fan of the President, but I don’t think he’s Hitler either. I don’t have a horse in this race politically speaking. I can assure you that Lucas thinks little of the President or those that support him. That being the case I think he “misunderestimated” (to use a Bushism) both those with differing political views and the general audience.

I don’t think he alienated a portion of his audience on purpose. I think he alienated a portion of his audience because he’s out of touch with the rest of the universe. You know the same way he alienated a potion of his audience with Jar Jar. George figured people would love Jar Jar. Just look at the interviews he had leading up to the release of TPM. He spoke about Jar Jar and how he was a marvel of modern CG and great character. Then TPM comes out and no person on Earth that had completed puberty enjoyed Jar Jar. Perhaps Jar Jar was a modern CG masterpiece, but I never noticed because I was still trying to recover from the fact that he was an insult to the audience.

I would like to give Lucas the benefit of a doubt, but after Greedo I can’t. If Lucas was willing to change a piece of Film History because his feelings on violence have changed I’m not going to put it past him to make a dig at a less than popular President.


Well, I personally am a supporter of the president and I do not believe that line can be seen as a valid criticism for George Bush unless you're someone who is very stupid and/or crazy. Though you do make a good point that GL could have been coming from on of those two points of view when writing that line. But, either way, I'm not worried about it. It's a bit futile to spend any time reading politics into an obviously illogical and ridiculous movie.
Post
#226788
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226788/action/topic#226788
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr

Yeah, I think making the OOT unavailable for the last 10 years and then releasing it on DVD from a laserdisc master, despite obvious demand for a new transfer is definitely "on purpose".


Well, that's interesting opinion at least. But for me (until I see good enough reason to believe otherwise) it seems easier to believe that George Luca$ has a deranged view of the world than to believe he would purposely hurt his ability to swindle money from Star Wars fans.

At the best, perhaps he'd purposely offend people if he thought it would make him higher profits in the long run . . . that's a possibility.
Post
#226597
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226597/action/topic#226597
Time
Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
Fanboys know Obi-Wan’s statement is a lie. If any real message can be drawn from the PT regarding the Jedi Order it is that they were too dogmatic. EVERYTHING was Black and White with the Jedi and that contributed to their downfall. The Sith were the group that embraced a larger view of the force; they were the order that saw shades of grey. The one PT Jedi (Qui-Gon) that tried to direct the order to a more open interpretation of the force was kept off the council for his efforts. The Jedi had their dogma, it worked for generations and it was based on their ideal that the force was black and white. Didn’t Obi-Wan lecture Qui-Gon to be more Orthodox throughout TPM? To someone familiar with the GFFA Ben’s statement is total bull shit.


Oh, Iagree, the line itself is completely illogical. I'm just skeptical that it was ever meant to be a direct dig on George Bush. I'm more inclined to think that Lucas just has a certain outlook of the world that is completely irrational and inconsistent, and thus that was the actual source of the line. Certain secularists have the hypocritical viewpoint that moral absolutes are wrong and I bet Lucas was making a crippled attempt to voice something to that affect. Just because certain political debates currently seem to be at the forefront does not mean he was purposely aiming to bring those politics into his movies and therefore criticize "those Christian concervatives" or whatever.

Oh, and to clarify, I believe Lucas will offend people all the time, and be very stubborn about it all, but that's mostly because of his personality flaws and his bad moves. Rarely are his offenses part of some intentional wish on his part if you ask me. I don't believe he is the type to offend people in a large scale fashion if he can help it since that would hurt his most beloved profits.
Post
#226493
Topic
Ralph McQuarrie Website
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226493/action/topic#226493
Time
Originally posted by: JediFlyer06
You know, to be honest, and this is not at all rooted in my modern disdain for what Lucas has become...but as a child that grew up as a part of the Star Wars generation and was beyond infatuated with the films, my interest was always in HOW it was all done. George Lucas was, to me, this nerdy guy with the big glasses. Whenever I got to see those making of specials on tv, or read about how something was done, THAT was what I was obsessed with. The guys who brought it all to life were my Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio, you know? As a kid I did sort of worship these guys...Ben Burt, Dennis Muren, Phil Tippet, Ken Ralston, Ralph McQuarrie, Michael Pangrazio, etc. It was like, "Those guys are cool! I want to do what they do!".


I was never that into the people behind the films, myself. It was more about a great set of stories to enjoy. Then for awhile there, after 1995, I began to give George Lucas a lot of the credit (based upon the publicity he gave himself) and yet even then I always knew that many other talented people were involved. Before Episode II I was hoping he would let other people have more of the control, like he did with Empire, but, as we all came to know, he didn't. Now I believe Lucas was very lucky in terms of any artistic success he personaly achieved, and I give the most credit to the amazing people he worked with.
Post
#226490
Topic
new book on a new hope coming in september
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226490/action/topic#226490
Time
Originally posted by: skyjedi2005

Yes people butted heads on the making of empire and it cost more money than star wars but that makes it a far better film. Kersh must have been so sick of it that's why he turned down jedi and this was before lucas left the dga.


I read that Kershner offered to direct Jedi but Lucas disaproved of Kershner handling of the budget for Empire and thus declined?
Post
#226487
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226487/action/topic#226487
Time
Yeah, I thought he was complimenting Darth_Evil as generous for giving away the movies. Most people would try to get money for the "tripe" they wish to be rid of.


Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
I didn’t like anything about the ROTS Duel between Anakin and Ben. The early dialog was destroyed by GL’s inept attempt at an insult of George W, “Only Sith deal in absolutes.” What a load of crap. I guess Yoda was a Sith when he said, “Do or do not, there is no try.” The late dialog was destroyed by Ben’s “I have the high ground” statement. Did the high ground matter when Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul? I won’t even go into the actual Lightsaber duel and how difficult it made it for me to maintain my suspension of disbelief. I think the music was probably the only thing that was close to right in that sequence.


The "high ground" line didn't bother me troo much, the problem was the visual context presented for the line. Obiwan was on a fairly low hill of dirt and we all saw Luke perform jumps in Empire and Jedi that would have been sufficient to leap over Obiwan, surely Anakin could have done better. And, yes, via the force we saw many PT jumps that would have dwarfed a small mountain. I scratched my head at that climax over the lack of consistency.

Otherwise, the dig on George Bush was probably unintentional somewhat. GL woudn't purposely alienate a large part of his audience.

Also, that scene where Obiwan jumped out of that pit, flipped over Darth Maul, picked up Qui-Gon's lightsaber, landed behind Maul, activated the lightsaber, and then sliced Darth Maul in half was absurd. That awesome duel deserved a much better ending. All of the alarming strength and skill that Maul exhibited was totally thrown out the window at that scene (unless you assume he was distracted by his over-confidence or something silly lie that). Oh well, I suppose inventing a physically complicated climax would have taxed Lucas' logical skills too much and so he made up some crap ending at the last moment and then deemed it "good enough." Spending ten minutes to invent something better is obviously too haaarrd.
Post
#226377
Topic
Finally Got Rid of My 2004 DVD's...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226377/action/topic#226377
Time
The final battle's dialogue and Anakin's legs getting sliced were the best part of that duel. The problem, I believe, was how those two elements were executed in a cinematic sense. They lacked a logical timing and the emotional impact was missing completely. (Plus, having so much implausible nonsense surrounding them didn't help.) The leg scene itself felt abrupt and gratuitous in the way it was presented. It felt more like a moment to be observed and nothing else (oh, it seems his legs got cut off). Sadly, even the part with Anakin crawling on the ground was somewhat poorly executed and that was easilly the most moving scene in the PT.

Oh, and I agree about the old-men-and-inexperienced-warriors comment by Lucas. That's bugged me for a long time now. He completely negated his own reasoning in episodes two and three.

All in all though, I did like the lightsaber duels in TPM all around. They were a bit too flashy, sure, but the feeling of intensity present within them was fantastic. The final duel in that movie made the Sith seem very threatening (too bad the scene where Obiwan sliced him in half seemed so cartoony). I believe Darth Maul was a pretty sweet villain despite not being explored as a substantial character (as he should have been).