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Tiptup

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4-May-2006
Last activity
26-Apr-2012
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Post
#208136
Topic
Why the first two are better
Time
"Another example: I want to be awed by the vast Asimovian city-world of Coruscant, but I can't. It's an ocean of skyscrapers and painful-to-watch aerial highways. It's nothing but a cornucopia of digital effects. It doesn't give me a sense of awe; it makes me depressed."

That's very true. Only the initial view of the planet from overhead in ep 1 seemed to be impressive to the senses.


Otherwise, his premise that the Star Wars universe was once portrayed as huge, with small scale people being overwhelmed, is true. But the idea that our character's were not major factors in the face of that is absurd. Do we remember Princess Lea defying the empire? How about Obiwan, the renowned Jedi, calmly disabling the Death Star's tractor beam? What about Luke blowing up the Death Star by using the amazing force powers that he alone out of the rebels was born with? That all sounds pretty “elite” to me. Sure they faced normally overwhelming circumstances, but it was their chosen position that caused them to be victorious. We new the good guys had to win.

Return of the Jedi was a great film in my mind. I don't understand all of the dislike for it in any way (especially putting it below ANY of the prequels). Maybe the Ewoks were a bit silly, but so was the raid on the Death Star prison and attack on the exhaust port in the first movie. It was all still fun to believe. Only Empire seemed the most down to earth, but that was obviously because it was far more emotional and character driven than the other two movies. Jedi portrayed the universe in a large and overwhelming way, but with regard to the numerical power of the empire and a more majestic and less gritty side to the physical locations.

If I had to guess, the people who dislike Jedi do so because they miss the point of the movie. It wasn't about the good guy's stopping the bad guys by winning this technical victory (with Ewoks). To me it was about an internal struggle to do the right thing, even when that choice may have seemed suicidal at the time (Luke facing the Emperor, Han devising new strategies, the rebel fleet putting itself in extreme risk instead of retreating to safety). This internal conflict reached its height when Luke's anger flared over protecting his sister from the pain he was enduring and he viciously attacked Vader (this scene gives me goose bumps each and every time). When he stopped himself, and refused to continue with the conflict, that was the true victory. That was the real climax of the film. It was only after that action of self-sacrifice that Darth Vader was finally able to break himself free from the internal darkness he had been enslaved by. Great drama.
Post
#208026
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
The matt lines and old special effects don't give me any problem whatsoever. Just awhile back I watched the original movies in widescreen and it brought back all of my love for the series (after the prequels and special editions left me in a state where I began to lose interest). My imagination makes up for any problems with the special effects. I apreciate their subtle artistic nature, and the way they heighten the mood of the stories. If they emotionally work, they don't need to be technically perfect.
Post
#208016
Topic
Star Wars in High Definition
Time
Devilman is probably right about the PS3 though. It will be expensive, but aside from that it will be the first player with mass market appeal. That should solidly make sure Blu-ray wins in addition to the technical superiority (I hope).

Both HD-DVD and BD (Blu-ray disk) drives will be designed to work with already existing DVDs, so there's no probem there for the average customer. Whichever format becomes the most popular will have all movie companies releasing titles for. Star Trek and anything else will come to Blu-ray quickly if it wins the format war.
Post
#207654
Topic
Star Wars in High Definition
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
The format war is pretty much over. HD-DVD was not favoured at all to begin with and they seriously screwed up their release and introduced so many problems into their hardware and software that even those who wanted to give it a chance have basically said "to hell with it." HD video will not catch on with average consumers, DVD will be around for at least five more years if not more, and only the hardcore cinephiles will adopt Blu-Ray.


Yeah, exactly. The HD-DVD would have had a chance if the average consumer who doesn't care got access to it, but at the moment Blu-ray offers a lot more. I hope Blu-ray wins, but if not, its not the end of the world I suppose.

Anyways, CO said that Warner Brother's is supporting the HD-DVD format only and that's not accurate. Warner is now actually supporting both formats. Here is a good page for learning about Blu-ray and who supports it (and what movies have been announced so far):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
Post
#207522
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Yeah, because you can really enjoy the story, characters, emotion, and fun when you can't see or hear anything well.

Hey everyone - check out the drama queen!

C'mon, you can't be serious. It's a fucking DVD, not a Zoetrope.


I love drama. That's why I love Star Wars. That's also why I used a winking smiley face in that text of mine you quoted.


Originally posted by: zombie84
Jim Ward said the video will be from 1993 and inferior to the Lowry-restored 2004 release. Duh!! How does that translate to "we are taking the Laserdisk masters and putting them on dvd"? Were that the case, would it not make sense to use the 1995 THX release??


Amen. A lot of people are being totally illogical to assume that Ward meant a Laserdisk master. Lucasfilm is rolling in money and could easilly do far better. Still, I'm more looking forward to a high definition release of the original films. These DVD releases will be fun in the meantime.
Post
#207521
Topic
In defense of George Lucas!
Time
All of that was because of only George Lucas.


Hmmm. "Only" George?

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for George Lucas, and I even believe he is a genius when it comes to telling an entertaining story. I also believe that Star Wars wouldn't exist if it weren't for him. I just cannot believe he brought even the primary success to Star Wars. He owes a lot to the talented people he chose to work with, and a lot of that was pure luck on his part.

Look at the paintings which Ralph McQuarrie made for the original Star Wars trilogy. Try to imagine all of the style and mood that he alone gave Star Wars. Without McQuarrie, Star Wars could have easily been a simple and cliché story of good versus evil, with none of the character we love today or the magic that pulled us in. Darth Vader's machine-like body and black suit was all based upon a Ralph McQuarrie painting. So much of the visual feeling of the film was based upon what he designed or inspired for Lucas, not the other way around.

What about the sound? George Lucas didn't invent or discover the sound that went to the lightsabers or many of the other amazing and classic Star Wars sounds; that was the great work of Ben Burt. The amazing music was written by John Williams, who was suggested to Lucas by Steven Spileberg I believe. Also, with The Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi, he didn't direct the films, and neither did he fully write the story for either of the movies. George got lucky in so many ways you can't imagine.

George Lucas is a great artist, but don't want people to worship him (especially when he becomes extremely stubborn over silly reasoning). Whatever his skill, there’s no excuse for him to be so irrational at times. At the very least you shouldn’t be surprised when people get a little frustrated with him now and then.
Post
#207194
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Originally posted by: stilleon
Acutally, that is not true. The master for the LD would be inferior to today's component masters for DVD. I have several DVDs that are made form LD masters, 2001 for instance. In all cases they just don't hold up to even the most plebian of 16x9 masters today. The most important difference is that Laser Disc's were not mastered to component devices. A DVD is a component disc, separating th luminance (black and white signal) and the three color signals so there is no crosstalk. In 1993 there was a component video format called D1, but it was much more likely to be placed on the less expensive D2 composite master because there is no reason to pay for the overkill in the master. This crosstalk causes strange dot crawls aganst adjacent colors between lines. Also, this master would have 3:2 pulldown recorded in, and not transferred as they are today as a 23.976 progressive flagged to output a 3:2 pulldown. This is how progressive DVD players today output progressive sources and the old transfers will not come out progressive if this is the case.


You aren't paying attention to my full statement. Jim Ward said that they would use video that was state of the art in 1993. He never said they were going to use a "Laserdisk master" from 1993. You assume too much.

I believe the digital master they will be using from 1993 was a result of the cleaning process used before the last home-release of the original films in 1995. The Laserdisk and VHS masters were then probably transfered from from that, in my estimation. If I'm right, that means the source master could very well be superior to any possible DVD master, and if that is the case it can then be mastered on DVD in anamorphic widescreen and still be very high quality.
Post
#207120
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Just to clarify, an “anamorphic” transfer to DVD does not require that you start with an anamorphic version of the film. The digital master which THX made in 1993 was certainly at a MUCH HIGHER RESOLUTION than Laserdisk offered and probably higher than DVD. That means a high quality, anamorphic transfer to DVD is most likely possible if they use the 1993 master. The digital master made at that time is probably very good, just not as good as what technicians could accomplish today.

Originally posted by: joe
no i dont think he is a creep in the least bit
i never have and i never will

i dont see the "trampling" here
he wasnt happy with what he originally had, so he went and updated it, and added a few things here or there
what are you talking about ?
the reason he IS releasing the O-Ot is because the demand is so large, and previous to last year, i hardly heard anyone complaining about the O-OT not being on DVD
he listened to the fans by releasing it now
and people are STIll complaining...and this site has the worst of it


You see no trampling? Well, since you didn't specifically respond to the ways I illustrated his disregard for the original artistic triumph (and the OT-fan sentiment), I'll assume you simply want to "agree to disagree" at that point.

Otherwise, nobody complained about not having the original Star Wars on DVD? I've wanted, and many fans have wanted that very thing since the DVD format was first introduced! We patiently waited because George told us to wait, and then finally in 2004 he gives us no original version to enjoy. I always thought he was going to do a 2-disk release in the first place and now that's simply going to be a special, limited time offer. Just because there were no organized efforts to voice complaints does not mean there were no complaints.


Originally posted by: joe
your criticizing GL as well
you contradicted yourself by saying that we should support GL, and then calling him a creep and saying that he trampled star wars


Sorry, logic isn't that simple. Supporting George Lucas because he makes another good move (out of his many good moves) does not logically exclude the additional concept that he may still be a "creep" in other ways. Also, supporting Lucas in this recent announcement certainly does not erase the recent history of him treating the original trilogy like shit. If his future inclination is to preserve the original trilogy more, then I will support him more, but that doesn't erase his previous officially-stated attitude. He may legally control the Star Wars franchise, but that's not the same thing as saying that every decision he makes is perfect; far from it. Don’t be such a blind follower.
Post
#207110
Topic
An exact quote from Lucas on Greedo shooting first.
Time
I always preferred the original way the scene was done where we couldn't see who was shooting and certainly not who shot first. It was just an explosion making the scene more intense, not knowing who got blasted, and then you see the smokey corpse of Greedo. It isn't until that point that you surmise that Han shot first. Intense stuff.

With the SE change, the scene is so boring you don't even pay attention to what's happening.
Post
#206983
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Originally posted by: casualimp
The circle will never be complete. DVD release of the OT, done. HD-DVD or Bluray release of the OT... not until a new format emerges like Crystaline Holographic HD in say like 10 years. He'll release the set just as HD or Bluray is at it's end and then we'll want it in the new format. I'd like to quote Mr. Burns at this time if I may...

"Remember... you're here forever."

Crap, that would be George Lucas' style wouldn't it?

Though, to be fair, he claimed that his delayed DVD reasoning was due to the prequels. Hopefully he'll be wiser with the Blu-ray format (which will be quite a bit better than its HD-DVD competitor).


Originally posted by: joe
i disagree...completely

this is NOT a rip off


You misunderstood my rip-off comment. I'm not complaining about this release in any way whatsoever. I specifically said it was the 2004 SE release that was the rip-off in the sense that I don't want to now own two DVD copies of the 2004 SE trilogy. He should have had this release of the 2004 SEs (coupled with the originals) avalable at the same time, or at least warned us that this release would be coming.

Otherwise, do you "completely" disagree about the George Lucas being a creep comment? I ask because I would find that hard to believe. You can't admit that he's a creep even slightly?

Seriously, who else but a creep could so callously trample the artistic and pop-culture history which centered upon the original trilogy? There were so many more people than just George Lucas who poured their talent into the original movies, and yet he acts like he alone should decide what is of value with regard to it. In addition, the fan base of the movies in their original form is gigantic, and yet George Lucas had previously seen fit to look down upon us as uncouth geeks at every turn (when he should have actually looked in the mirror).

I'm glad he's finally allowing the original trilogy to be released and I'm definitely going to purchase it. I'm not complaining about this latest news in any way. I'm finally glad George Lucas isn't being weird anymore. If you had read my post closely, I was criticizing the complainers.
Post
#206852
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
George Lucas is a creep; I doubt anyone here would disagree with that. We all know this is a rip-off for people like me who purchased the stupid 2004 DVDs (I could not even bring myself to watch them and now I regret the purchase except for the extras disk). Yet the logic advocating a boycott of this release for that very reason makes no sense. Moves in the right direction, no matter how insufficient that may be for some, are still moves in the right direction and fans need to support that. We need to think long term.

Even worse is the notion that we should boycott this release because we think we need to prove to George Lucas that the original versions of the films were better. Here’s a news flash, people: George Lucas has already helped us prove that assertion far better than any argument by creating the special editions. The artificial and overworked nature of the Special Editions will not stand up as great cinema in the long run. It has neither the history nor aesthetic quality of the original releases. Merely by having the original trilogy preserved, history will agree with us. The Special Editions are not timeless works of art by any stretch, they are cheap and tacky.

I don't get what is worrying so many of the brainless boobs here. If the original trilogy is better, then that fact will speak for itself, we don't need to have a level playing ground.


At any rate, you're all acting as if this were the final battle. Have any of you complainers heard of Blu-ray? It is coming out this spring and it makes DVD look like a pile of shit. That will be the truly definitive way to watch the original trilogy for many years to come. That's what we need to think about, and if that means we let George Lucas rip us off here, I'm all for it. I enjoy the movies enough to pay even more money if need be.
Post
#206656
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Originally posted by: Skyranger
If these DVDs are to be from a 1993 video master, I can't imagine they'll look any different than Laserdisc. However, I have two reasons to believe that Jim Ward's references to 1993 are not to a video master. I believe it's very unlikely that the original Star Wars opening crawl without "Episode IV A New Hope" was transferred to video in 1993. I also believe that it's very unlikely that any video masters made in 1993 would have been recorded in anamorphic widescreen.


The last time the original Star Wars Trilogy was released was in 1995 according to my VHS box. One of the big selling points (VHS and Laserdisk) was how THX "digitally mastered" the original film. They supposedly cleaned and fixed the video digitally. Therefore, I would assume that this master was done in 1993, which was just prior to 1995. On both Laserdisk and VHS, widescreen versions of the film were available. That means that the "master" done in 1993 was probably of a quality where an "anamorphic widescreen" DVD release should be possible.

I've been studying the differences between DVD and Laserdisk, and DVD outclasses Laserdisk in a number of ways. The most obvious is that DVD has a much higher image resolution. I found it interesting to learn that Laserdisk used no compression since it's video was an analog format, not digital. That means the compression artifacts, visible on poor DVD productions during high speed movement on screen, are not experienced with Laserdisk, and it actually mimics film better in this regard. Yet modern DVD compression techniques elimate this problem almost entirely. All in all, I believe the same digital master from 1993 should look better on DVD.
Post
#206234
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Technically DVD isn't HD, but it is superior to Laserdisk. Even if we can't get the trilogy in a "digitally remastered" or "restored" form, I would like a DVD-dedicated transfer of at least the original film quality to DVD. Well, whatever that would entail of course. I'm not a video expert. I just know that VHS sucked and Laserdisk had problems as well.

I just noticed that Ward said "search exhaustively" for source material, and unless he's grossly exagerating, a direct Laserdisk-quality transfer does not require "exhaustive" searching. This is confusing and we'll have to cross our fingers.
Post
#206232
Topic
The Official Discs Will Be No Better Than What We Have!
Time
Harlock stole some of my thunder there, but I want to make the same point.

Jim Ward says, "We returned to the Lucasfilm Archives to search exhaustively for source material that could be presented on DVD. This is something that we're very excited to be able to give to fans in response to their continuing enthusiasm for Star Wars."

I highly doubt Lucasfilm would release a crappy laserdisk tranfer of the films. This quote seems to imply that they went back to find something original. If I had to guess, that would mean the original film, but transfered to a respectable DVD resolution, with the superior DVD technology (color and all that), as well as using decent compression (few artifacts). After all, the origianl film was not displayed in high definition in the movie theater, it was on analogue film, and that means it was blurry by today's "video quality" and I hope that is all Ward meant in the USATODAY quote.

As for VHS quality, that would be laughably bad quality. This world would have to be one shitty place for Lucas to treat his original-trilogy fans so poorly. He's a completely illogical dumbass, but I can't imagine he's pure evil like that.


Either way, even if the transfer is, in actuality, poor (laserdisk quality), Star Wars fans will have to get it if we ever want to hope for a "restored" version of the original films on DVD. It sucks, but if we boycott this bone, they'll be less likely to give us anything better. Suckers who shell out cash get more attention than stingy complainers.