TheHutt

RIP Eli Wallach (1915 - 2014).

I was wondering - should I make an attempt to sync this track with the Mondo disc?

Or would this be unnecessary as there were other people who did it before me?

I'd rather have it the other way round. :)

Stamper said:

Awesome ! Is this for the 4K remaster long version including the grotto scene ? Cos you used a picture of the original theatrical in post 1.

 Yes, it is for the 4K remaster with the new MGM logo.

I have seen the German "To be continued" card. Contrary to the Part 2 card, it looked quite digital and low-res to me (rather pixelated). However, that might have been just the German home video editing process.

Well, given to what other wizards create here, this is rather nothing. :)

The project was started out of necessity: I did not want to hear these horrible new sounds during my first entire experience of the 4K remaster (I don't really mind the 4K edition coloring, although I do see why others might dislike it).

I added links to the differences between the US Theatrical version and US Extended Version as well as between the US Extended Version and the Italian version.

PDB, much thanks to you for the PCM track! :)

Did they actually do the "To Be Continued" card in HD? After all, it was done for video release.

The print from Italy, of course.

This all sounds great TheHutt but are you planning to make it publicly available at some point?

You have PM.

I wish everyone involved the best of luck obtaining this treasure. :)

As for my mono restoration project, I started an own thread for this.

“Every gun makes its own tune” - Blondie

The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo

Remastered Mono Track

Update of July 19th 2014:

• The v1.1a has been synched with the Italian Mondo BluRay, available both in FLAC and DTSHD.

Current version: 1.1a. Info in old PMs is also valid for v1.1a and Mondo.

Changelog on 1.1a

• There was a sync issue with one scene missing on the 1993 LD (it was also wrong on the MGM downmix). It was restored from the Italian mono.
• There are some sound stutterings (milliseconds of silence) on the original PCM track. Some of them could be fixed; however, wherever I felt that fixing would rather make things worse by creating artifacts, I left them be. Many of them are actually still present on the MGM downmix mono track.

About the project:

• In 2002, MGM has created an Extended version of “The Good, The Bad And The Ugly”. The reason for it is that in 1966, the Italian version was cut by ~14 minutes of runtime for international release (here the comparison of US Theatrical version vs MGM Extended version; here is the comparison of MGM Extended version with Italian version). In 2002, along with the re-integration of those scenes (which had not been dubbed into English previously), MGM also created a new 5.1 sound mix. For this mix, original sound effects (mostly gunshots) have been replaced by new, “fuller” sounding ones. Although the original DVD (2004) and BluRay (2009) issue of the MGM extended version also contain an English mono track, it was only a downmix of the new 5.1 soundtrack, with all the new sound effects.

Unfortunately, the new 2014 4K restoration still made use of the downmixed mono.

Goal of this project:

• To recreate original sound experience created by the original sound editors Vittorio de Sisti, Elio Pacella and Fausto Ancillai, which are familiar from the English theatrical version and from the Italian version of the film.
• To sync the English mono sound with the 4K edition of the film

Working materials:

1. Uncompressed English PCM mono audio for US Theatrical version from 1993 Laserdisc (thanks to PDB)
2. Dolby Digital mono audio from 1998 US Theatrical version DVD (192 kbps)
3. English mono audio (downmix) from 2014 UK Extended BluRay (192 kbps)
4. German mono audio (DTS-HDMA) from 2014 UK Extended BluRay
5. Italian mono audio from 2009 US Extended BluRay (224 kbps)

What was done:

• An English PCM sound (1) from an MGM laserdisc (1993) was obtained (thanks to PDB). However, this LD edition was additionally cut compared to the 1998 DVD theatrical version. It was converted from 44100 Hz to 48000 Hz.
• The English Extended downmix (3) was used as a sync guide as well as for filling the extended scenes’ material. No new sounds were used in those except for one (see below).
• The English Dolby Digital mono (2) was used to fill missing pieces from the scenes cut from the 1993 LD, as it has similar sound characteristics (as opposed to the downmix (3)).
• The German mono track (4) was unique as it was created 1995 from the original Italian theatrical version of the film prior to MGM’s restoration and thus not using their new sounds (it was synched with the 2002 MGM edition by German TV channel ZDF). It was the best quality source for one extended scene (Clint Eastwood meeting Angel Eyes’ henchmen) containing a gunshot. See sample.
• The Italian track (5) is unique in that it is synched to the US extended version of the film and even contains some bits absent from the original Italian cut (“Il Grotto” as well as “Sorry Tuco” at the end).
• Additionally to just inserting new scenes, many efforts were made to make the dialogues in-sync with the mono downmix guide track. It often required cutting and shifting small bits of dialogue around. I hope I succeeded.

Results

There are two versions of the final track:

• DTS-HDMA (Core: 768 kBps, 24 Bit resolution) 1.0 mono
• FLAC (lossless audio, 24 Bit resolution, 277 kBps) 1.0 mono

Sample (flac)

• Multiupload.biz
• Sendspace

Spectral analysis:

Disclaimer: Usage of this track is solely allowed in compliance with the forum rules, meaning that you have to own your own legal copy of the film.

Mike O said:

Why the fuck is it so hard to include mono? Why? Do they think we're stupid and won't notice a downmix? Seriously, it's like every fucking Hong Kong release. How hard can it be to include the mono?

It is outright incomprehensible. I do hate all of the new gunshots, they just feel wrong. As does the "mono track restoration" credit.

PS: my mono track project *for the 4K version is completed. After testing it by watching I will open a topic especially for it.

* Sourced from uncompressed PCM of the Theatrical LD, extended scenes from the MGM 4K mono downmix and the German DTS-HDMA with original sound effects from the same. Plus, some extensive synching.

Short status update:

Ca. 60% of the English mono track are done. The torture scene was easier than I assumed. However, Lee Van Cleef's lines have to get moved around all the time as they often get out of sync.

ilovewaterslides said:

1) Is the Mondo a theatrical version or an extended one?

2) What is the bitrate of the audio tracks on the 98 DVD?

 Neither. There are three versions now:

a) US Theatrical version
b) Italian Theatrical version
c) US Extended Version

The US Extended Version follows the Italian version for most part, however, it uses the US Theatrical version edit of the torture scene as well as of some shots at the end. Here is a comparison between the US Extended and the Italian version: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=624419

2) The AC3 bitrate is 192 kbps 2.0 mono. That's why I am using the LD PCM audio instead (though it is more severely cut).

A little status update on my own project "Creating a real mono sound for the 4K MGM Extended edition of GBU":

The current completion is at ca. 40%. There is not only issue of splicing in the extended pieces, but also issues of asynchronity of the mono track (sometimes for single lines) which also get fixed.

And I gotta say, the old gunshots sound so much better!

A little status update on my project "Creating a real mono sound for the MGM Extended edition of GBU":

The current completion is at ca. 40%. There is not only issue of splicing in the extended pieces, but also issues of asynchronity of the mono track (sometimes for single lines) which also get fixed.

And I gotta say, the old gunshots sound so much better!

PDB said:

Hey Hutt,

    I just checked the PCM file I sent you earlier and the "You're from Baker?" line is there in meeting with the farmer and Lee Van Cleef. Am I looking in the right place or is that the wrong line?

 

My bad! The line is in fact in there. It was me who checked wrong (as a little piece before it was missing, namely when the farmer and Angel Eyes start eating). Sorry for the confusion.

Know all these infos. :)

which I don't have. That's important since what most people don't know is that the two laserdiscs are slightly different. The one I have has the titles for the characters in Italian and there are some tiny other differences.

That's really the odd thing. There are little bits missing here and there: the howling coyote during the walk-up of the three first baddies for example.

That's not an actual problem as I have the DVD track as a backup.

EDIT: I will check my copies. I have the boxset and 1998 LD remaster, and R1 original DVD. IIRC the later LD's audio is a bit cleaner with less noise.

I think the 1998 LD should have the best quality if it's in PCM. When checking the intro music, just in the beginning (with the animated horseman) there is a triple repetition of the "ai-ai-aaah" motif. The third rendition sounds like it was heavily clipping - an effect not present on the 1998 DVD AC3 at this point.

Anyone know where to find the Mondo anymore? I need a copy along with ordering the German BDs of the first two. According to bluray.com there is a new Italian BD but I don't know if it's the same master.

The transfer is still the same, however, the region is locked to B on the new edition. You can get it here.

Now that's really odd. I have started work with the help of the LD mono track from PDB, but this LD version seems to be even more cut than the R1 Theatrical DVD version!

For instance, there are missing pieces from the initial walk-up of the three bounty hunters trying to attack Tuco (first scene in film); also, in the encounter between Angel Eyes and the farmer (second scene in film) the line "You coming from Baker?" is missing.

The R1 DVD was intact in these scenes, strangely.

PDB said:

 I can give you the Laserdisc's PCM Mono if you want Hutt. I ripped it a year ago.

I won't say no to such an offer! The earlier I could start work on it, the better.

PS: personally, I am more infuriated by the omission of the original mono track (the one included is still the downmix of the 5.1 sound with replaced gunshots), than by the colors.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

OK, first I'd like to know if I have well understood the situation...

The italian BD has the best color grading, according to many, while the new 4K version has a better definition, right?

Well, if the links I posted are to the right editions, there is a problem... the italian one is 167 minutes while the 4K is only 155 minutes... or is the latter length wrong?

 It is wrong. The duration of the 4K is 178:36 min; it contains several scenes more than the Italian version, most notably the Il Grotto sequence, as well as some other bits and pieces. See here: http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=624419

I think for the video it's possible to color regrade the 4K version using the italian BD as reference, then use the latter for the (eventual) missing shots; for the audio, it is possible to use the laserdisc for almost all, then use the missing part from the 4K BD (if it has also the extended edition) or a previous extended edition DVD.

Basically, the 4K version contains most of the shots. The only two shots the Italian has which the 4K doesn't are in the torture scene (alternative footage of Tuco's eyes being squashed by Wallace) which is two shots only.

I already started work of my own, restoring original mono from the theatrical version (a buddy promised to grab the LD PCM track for me). As far as I know, there is only one extended scene in the Extended version using replaced sound effects. These can be sourced either from the untouched Italian track of the old BluRay, or from the German mono track (DTS-HDMA 1.0) of the new one.

Well, I must confess I'm not well informed about the various versions of this movie, but indeed I'm curious to know if I could be able to help.

As a matter of fact, I am well informed about them all. :)

Also, this laserdisc box set could be indeed useful for the other two movies!

Why? There are almost perfect German editions of the first two movies (FOD: based on Italian source; FAFDM: based on MGM source but fully uncut), containing English original mono in DTS-HDMA. All widescreeen MGM editions of FAFDM are cut.

Yeah, Laser, thank you for finally completing it! Really nice work.