Originally posted by: oojason^ Palpatine got to Dooku before he left the Jedi / Jedi Council?
I'm not sure on the 'redundancy' of Dooku due to what happens in Ep3 - apart from his death, we don't know the details of the on-screen stuff of what's going on yet.
That's a pretty big jump in conclusions to the main reason of the Emperor smiling at Vader in RoTJ is that it reminds him of getting Dooku to resign from the Jedi (did he?) all those years before.
anyone know if millenniumfalcon.com is still down?
No, it's redundant. I'd have to get into Episode III spoilers to do it, and I'm not sure how many of you really want that. Plus then you get into questioning whether the Episode III rumors I tell you are real or not, and then we're REALLY off track. But basically, Dooku's turning factors in a GREAT deal to Anakin's turning, which then factors in to the attempt to turn Luke. It's all pretty tightly connected. Not a large jump at all. Palpatine is smiling because he KNOWS what Vader is trying to pull, and he thinks it's funny that Vader would even attempt that. The overconfidence, remember?
Vader seemed to be under the impression that there were going to be three of them,
No he didn't. You're reading that scene pretty simply. He blocks the saber because of his tie to Palpatine. it's almost instinct. Palpatine turns him, saves him from death, is responsible for not only his mastery of the Force, but his very life. It's reflex to protect his only father figure. He's like the reluctant thief who plots out an elaborate robbery and then starts shuffling feet and getting all nervous just before the heist goes down. And these are motives that should not only be clear on their own, but motives that are outright referenced in the movies themselves, by Vader himself. he's very very conflicted, and he's trying to hedge his bets. He's basically in over his head. Which is why Palpatine was smiling at him in ESB--he knows Vader can't handle that.
And these are all things you'd miss if you simply write the scene off as "He wants a evil trio." just because he blocks the saber. Palpatine wouldn't have invited Luke to swing if he didn't know he'd brainwashed Anakin so thoroughly.
That one scene kneecapped the entire film in Episode II. It took what could have been an interesting cliffhanger mystery and spoonfed you the answer before it was in any way necessary.
It wasn't really an interesting mystery, for one. The instant he sentences Obi Wan/Anakin/Padme to death, there's no mystery left to his character--he's full on evil. Bad guy. He's not confused or misled or Jedi Batman, using the dark ways to fight for justice. He's just straight up evil--a notion reinforced by his siccing his droids on TWO HUNDRED jedi. There's no mystery left at that point--the red saber is anticlimactic after that.
Secondly, it IS necessary that you know Dooku is a sith before Episode III starts. It's very INTEGRAL to the story of Episode III that the jedi not only know Dooku is a Sith by then, but that they're completely confused--they more than likely believe HE is Maul's master, even after Dooku's telling the truth to Kenobi. I don't see how showing that Dooku, without a doubt, has been turned "spoonfeeds" anything. If anything, it ADDS more mystery for the Jedi because now they have to deal with the idea that not only did he leave the Jedi, but he might possibly be THE sith they've been looking for, and how could they have lost him so badly.
And as for your "I could easily reveal him as a sith in Episode III" that's really going to screw up the timing. Once again, I'd have to get into Episode III spoilers to show you how, and I don't know if you want that--but if you try to hold the "tension" over to Episode III, Dooku's moments in Episode III are going to be pretty laughably disappointing. Your comparison to "Vader is Luke's Dad" revelation is pretty spotty, actually. They're not at all near the same level of importance. It's very necessary that the revelation of Dooku's allegiance is revealed--because it's causing the same air of confusion at the end of the movie that the Vader confession caused: The Jedi are totally thrown. They think they've found the sith, but the sith turns out to be an old Jedi, and now this old Jedi is telling them that there's ANOTHER sith over him, which calls the rule of two into question, and then that other sith just happens to control the senate somehow. All while the Jedi are noticing they can't use the force as effectively. Dooku's being a sith begins to tie all this stuff together at the end of Episode II, and effectively sets the stage for Episode III. The Jedi are confused and struggling--and having Dooku be a big yellow-sabered "maybe" at the end of that really DOES kneecap all that uncertainty. It diffuses it. It actually COMPLICATES the storytelling, not enhances it. It's trying to add extra mystery to a problem that's already been solved. If you want to compare it to the Vader scene, it'd be like this:
Vader: Obi Wan never told you about your father.
Luke: He told me enough. he told me YOU killed him.
Vader: No. That's not what happened. And too bad you won't find out.
And then he cuts out the gantry from under Luke and walks offscreen.
Also, you didn't seem to address the fact that Yoda himself must have been a Dark Lord of the Sith in order to have had knowledge of the rule, as it was put into place AFTER they were wiped out
