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The Bizzle

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21-Aug-2004
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14-Feb-2009
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529

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Post
#126930
Topic
Quotes from Gary Kurtz
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/126930/action/topic#126930
Time
No it's not. It's the same thing that's always been said by the actors: IF there's sequels, I'd like to be in them. Remember that George was quoted PLENTY of times in the early 80's about Star Wars being a middle trilogy. At least twice by Rolling Stone and Time magazine. It's not like Lucas and Fisher are best buds are something. At that time, Fisher was as close to Lucas as WE are--she knew as much as we did. And if most of the world believed there would be 7,8, and 9, why wouldn't she?

Quote
i'm not sure why you'd continue to argue that kurtz had no creative involvement in the prequels after reading this quote


The quote you're quoting is mine, so I'm not quite sure what you're saying. I never said Kurtz had no creative involvement. I said he didn't have any more than McCallum has currently. Their input into the movies are essentially the same--not much at all. Like I said earlier, Kurtz feels sort of bad about that oft-quoted interview, and that he spun it pretty heavy there.

Post
#125312
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/125312/action/topic#125312
Time
Oh, btw Biz', you'll be pleased to know that you'll be able to watch CW with Dooku as a Sith if you're so inclined on the new disc. It's not that way in the movie proper, but its a selectable option in the special features.


hey, now that's something.

Do you just not have access to a decent sound editing program and decent mics? Should be pretty easy if you have those two to get a very quality recording of soemone reading back that "alien" dialog if that's the case.

Hell, I could do it if that was the major problem.

look at this. me volunteering to help YOU with one of your fan edits
Post
#125052
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/125052/action/topic#125052
Time
You could create your own language instead of running existing ones backwards. or create your own gibberish and run THAT backwards. Maybe that'd be too time consuming, but considering how much effort you've been pouring into these things for running on 2 years now, taking the time to come up with a couple alien languages for a couple of lines can't be that much extra. it's not like you have to write a dictionary for the language once you're done.
Post
#124799
Topic
Did George actually have an "original vision?"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/124799/action/topic#124799
Time
Quote
It will instead be long remembered for how vulgar the mass marketing tie-ins became.


how vulgar they "Became?"

if you can look back at the marketing and merchandising that took place starting in the summer of 77 and continuing well into the 90's even BEFORE the Special Editions were announced, and say the mass-marketing tie-ins weren't just as "vulgar" then you're looking back with rose colored glasses. chances are you didn't think they were "vulgar" because mass-marketing merchandising didn't insult your intelligence at the time--because you were like, 8 years old and wanted to buy the stuff.

these criticisms have been lobbed at Star Wars ever since Empire Strikes Back. C'mon. Hell, "The Art of Star Wars" has an editorial comic detailing the merchandising madness of a "Darth Vader Mall Visit." complete with Darth Vader ordering a Tab soda between autograph signings.

The prequels don't do ANYTHING to the first films unless you LET THEM. The Special Editions? Yeah, those do something to the first films--because they're directly ALTERING the first films. But the prequels are their own movies, and are marketed and merchandised in THE EXACT SAME MANNER AND VOLUME as the originals were. Maybe even less so. Last I checked the prequels didn't spawn a Star Wars cookbook. But to claim that these movies didn't get over-merchandised until 1999 is ridiculousness.

And in the same manner that you can ignore remakes of classic movies, you can ignore the prequels. It's real easy. The argument that the prequels taint the originals has always been silly, to me. Especially since everyone pretty much agrees the first two movies are the best two. They wouldn't be able to say that if they REALLY believed the prequels had tainted everything else.

You're telling me TPM, AOTC and ROTS somehow made Star Wars and Empire LESS GOOD?

Don't buy it.
Post
#123475
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/123475/action/topic#123475
Time
Yeah, that's definitely going overboard to say Kurtz contributed NOTHING. C'mon. Your example of bruckheimer is pretty good, although the majority of his creative influence is felt by which scripts he's picking, not so much for what he's adding to them.

Kurtz didn't get to pick the script. So that's where that comparison sorta crumbles. but to say Kurtz had NO input is going too far in the other direction.
Post
#123189
Topic
George Lucas using co-writers
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/123189/action/topic#123189
Time
Small correction--almost EVERYTHING else is correct, but Star Wars wasn't exactly "Ghost Written" by Huyck and Katz. They did a dialog polish, and the only lines of theirs that stayed in were a few of Han Solo's. They DID help with some structure, but since their contributions basically boiled down to polishing about 60 percent of ONE character's dialog, they weren't credited, although Lucas DID give them percentage points for their help.

The Stoppard rumor was never verified, although I DO tend to believe it. Also, since we're discussing rumors, and we're talking about Lucas' yielding creative control (he's never actually done that. All his collaborators just refine ideas he gave them, and if he didn't like them, they re-wrote. That's pretty much the definition of control) There WERE other options for directors on the prequel. Earliest rumors cited Lucas lining up Joe Johnston, Frank Darabont and David Fincher, all ex ILM/LFL alums, to helm I, II and III, respectively.
Post
#123188
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/123188/action/topic#123188
Time
Quote
he works on the movie, it's good. he doesn't, it's not so good. i may not be able to give you three cited examples of what he did or didn't do to make the early movies better, but they are.


but that makes the argument sorta empty, though, doesn't it? I mean, I'm not denying you your opinion (and it's one I share in that I think the first two ARE better than the 4 that followed, although I do appreciate the prequels more than you do) but if you don't REALLY have anything to point to other than "He was on those shoots and then he wasn't" then the argument is sorta flimsy. There's a few people who worked on the first two who didn't work on the prequels, as well. It's a little too open ended.

And yeah, Burtt was the only one to say anything on the Beginning, but it was only an hourlong documentary. McCallums face isn't shining and beaming when that ended, either, and there's more evidence in that book that he tried to curb Lucas' worst tendencies. But you haven't read that, so I can't REALLY hold that against you, except to say you SHOULD read it if you're really interested in seeing how Lucas' filmmaking procedures have progressed (or stagnated, as the case may be)

And Lucas isn't exactly the GREATEST producer to point to as an example, since he is, as I pointed out earlier, an example of a producer who also CREATED the story he's producing. Not too many producers are also co-writers. A lot of them simply BUY the rights to something and ensure it gets put on screen. there's some creative input, yeah, but that's largely not the job of a STRAIGHT-UP producer. Producer-Writer, yeah. Producer-Director, yeah. But just hired gun Producer? Different ballgame. But you are right, there are producers who do wear both hats, and are credited for that explicitly
Post
#123113
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/123113/action/topic#123113
Time
But that's what a producer is SUPPOSED to do. The idea that a hired producer is SUPPOSED to be a creative collaborator isn't really how the job works. And Kurtz didn't stand up to Lucas all that much, either. I'd say McCallum and Kurtz had essentially the same input into the story, and excersised it as often. there's a "Myth of Kurtz" built up that doesn't take into account what Producers are actually supposed to DO, and ends up handing co-creatorship and almost a co-writer credit to a guy who didn't ever really deserve it. And that's not to take away from the job he did working with Lucas, but building up Kurtz in place of Lucas is just as unfair as building up Lucas in the place of everyone else.
Post
#122836
Topic
THX Ultimate Demo Disc
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122836/action/topic#122836
Time
THX reputation as the gold standard of classification died back in like, 97-98, when they certified the "Highlander" DVD from Republic Pictures. That DVD was GOD AWFUL, even by early DVD standards.

I honestly think THX's only real usefulness on the home front, at this point, is that they make really cool sounding trailers. THX certified equipment really isn't, and hasn't been for awhile, any better than stuff that ISN'T THX Certified. That's not to say THX is slacking, but that manufacturers have improved their product so much that a VERY large percentage of the mid-to-high end equipment is way better than even the high end stuff was just a few short years ago.

but the THX Theater Alignment Program IS still top notch, and I wish there were more programs similar to it. maybe we'd get a better chance at a good theatrical presentation if it was like that. As it stands now, TAP is spread too thin, and theater owners are settling for the most MEDIOCRE showing they can. Which keeps me at home more often than not, anymore.
Post
#122826
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122826/action/topic#122826
Time
I'm pretty sure I read Spielberg was 2nd choice on Jedi after Kersh somewhere. but you're probably right. And I KNOW you're right on the second count

There's plenty to "bash" Lucas for without having to make stuff up. Like I said, it's in those biographies. There's plenty of ammo there if you want it, you dont' have to construct some soap opera villain and graft him onto Lucas body.
Post
#122822
Topic
Quotes from Gary Kurtz
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122822/action/topic#122822
Time
That list doesn't show if those films came in on or under budget, or on time, or if the production looked as good as the money poured into it. McCallum manages to make the movies he's been involved in as a producer look a LOT better than the money typically spent on them, and he gets those movies done fairly quickly and with a minimum of budget overruns. He's a very good organizer. Which is what you want from a producer. Kurtz wasn't as good at that as McCallum or even Kazanjian was.

Kurtz is a good guy, but I've heard he sort of regrets that interview, as he spun it pretty heavy and it made him sound a lot worse than he really meant to. Plus, keep in mind, it's about 5 years old and doesn't take either Episodes II and III into account, which, say what you will about them as movies, DOES help bring out the subtext that IS inherent in Episode I that might not be so apparent to critical viewers when viewed in a vacuum without the other two parts.

But fans have always overestimated his importance to the story elements of Star Wars. they seem to think Producer means co-writer or something, when it's not necessarily the case. It CAN be, but that wasn't Kurtz's role on these movies.
Post
#122820
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122820/action/topic#122820
Time
Kersh wasn't pushed away, he declined to do Return of the Jedi on his own. he WAS the first choice. There was no ill will and it certainly wasn't because he worked with George. He declined for the same reasons George had Kersh direct ESB: He was tired and wasn't up to another big long shoot on a Star Wars flick. If I remember right, he was also initially thought of for one of the Prequels at one point. Kurtz wasn't "pushed away" either. The facts are pretty easily obtained via any library and any one of the three bigger biographies about Lucas: "Skywalking" which is the most accurate, although there's some contradictions from time to time, "Mythmaker" which seemed to take most of its research from "Skywalking" and Peter Biskind's book "Easy Riders, Raging Bulls" making the book feel at times like a copy of a copy, with all the inaccuracies that entails, and "Empire Building" by Garry Jenkins, which is pretty workmanlike but also gets a fair amount of details wrong.

Besides which, Kurtz and Kershner have their fair share of clunkers in their repertoire as well. there's no guarantee Jedi would have been magic once again simply because they're Kurtz and Kershner.

And Kurtz didn't LEAVE to do Dark Crystal. Kurtz was told they weren't going to use him for Jedi, due to his inability to keep the budget down and the movie on schedule, and he then went for and got the Dark Crystal job--a movie which also finished considerably overbudget and late, if I remember right.
Post
#122751
Topic
Howard Kazanjian
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/122751/action/topic#122751
Time
The guy who was doing the stained glass work on his house. George and Marcia shortly got divorced afterwards, right after Return of the Jedi was finished.

And Lucas and Kurtz split for the reasons Cassidy listed above. It wasn't altogether acrimonious, and it wasn't a total split, either--Lucas ended up finishing the financing for and helping organize "Return to Oz" when Kurtz went overbudget and way late with THAT film, as well. If I remember right, Kurtz had a breakdown on set in the last month, and physically couldn't do his job. That's when Lucas stepped in to help Kurtz. Didn't have to, but did it as a favor to Kurtz for all the work he'd done on Star Wars and Empire. Kurtz soon had to file for bankruptcy afterwards.

It wasn't at all that Kurtz saw "Star Wars" going down the tubes, and it wasn't that Lucas got a big head and wanted things done his way all of a sudden. Lucas ALWAYS wanted things done his way. His relationship with Dykstra (and the British crew) on Star Wars was strained because Lucas was acting as Cameron is known for acting--getting down in the muck and doing the crew's work FOR THEM if it wasn't just as he liked it. The heads of the departments didn't appreciate that, obviously But it does prove that Lucas was always very adamant about getting what he wanted when he could control it. And if he couldn't control it, he got frustrated.

And Kazanjian just left to fly solo. Lots of people did it. Hell, Joe Johnston, Frank Darabont and David Fincher all left Lucasfilm/ILM to do their own thing. It's not always some acromonious behind-the-scenes drama.

And McCallum isn't exactly a no-talent. He's very good with the money, keeps costs down, keeps the production moving fast, and after reading "The Making of Revenge of the Sith," the diaries show he's not at all the "yes man" people constantly cast him as. For the majority of the book, he's prodding Lucas to either a) get to work on the script or b) stop tinkering with the film unnecessarily.
Post
#121747
Topic
What about you? The moment when you "divorced" from the Lucas policy about SW?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/121747/action/topic#121747
Time
You're so weird. Why would I have to EXPLICITLY ask what your stance is? That's what the point of your responses are (or at least should be) That's why context exists, man. You gonna tell me your posts didn't lead anywhere because you never blocked off a paragraph with

HERE IS MY STANCE, LET ME EXPLAIN IT FULLY TO YOU

?

That's silliness, man. The fact that you never took the time TO say otherwise--It's common sense to then take one of two things from that:

a) you don't think otherwise, otherwise you would have said so, so as to make your argument as clear as possible.
b) you're being purposefully obtuse in order to give yourself wiggle room later while line-by-lining.

And the line-by-line shit is so exhausting, really. You can communicate those thoughts JUST FINE without having to quote my ENTIRE post back at me. I can scroll up and read it if I need to.

The major disconnect seems to be that you think "Just venting" makes it understandable. My thing is that "just venting" is fine, but people here can do better than "just venting" in that manner. And just letting "a troll" stick around isn't helping, either. It's not like this place hasn't run em off before, either. there's typically pretty good quality control.

(cue joke about letting ME stay here being proof against it)

(cue quote of above parenthetical and snide one liner by MeBe re-wording above joke unironically)



(and you say I'm not familiar with the people here.)

I can agree with you about it being "just venting" and not be "twisting it into something else." there's no hidden motive, (especially not to "Stick up for" or "defend" MF.com. I don't own the site, and haven't visited there in quite a while, so there's no vested interest in "defending its honor" or whatever) because I try to lay everything out as clearly as possible. My argument is with the manner of the venting, not with the fact he's venting. There's cool, constructive, discussion-conducive ways to do it. that's all I'm arguing for. That you wanna write that off as "drama" with a condescending tone is a little unfair to the board.

not every time we talk has to be you acidly line-by-line clawing at me, man. It's happened before At some point you forgot that there was this unfair image of me in your head that you read every post with, even the multiple times I've tried to extend an olive branch to you. I'm not even ATTACKING you, man. You react so weirdly DEFENSIVE whenever I post, I honestly don't get it. We can have a difference of opinion without us having to rip each others throats out (an action that's largely on YOUR end most times, not mine) I mean, to go so far as listing my (I think) pretty reasonable posts as something like "a vengeance crusade" is sort of ridiculous. Vengeance for what? Isn't "vengeance" a little overboard for something like this? What am I 'avenging?" Civil Discussion? And then to think my FEELINGS were hurt because of it? If you're as familiar with me as you think you are, you'd know it'd take a fair bit to actually HURT MY FEELINGS through a screen. It's gotta be something pretty personal to do that. Like clowning my mom or calling my brother an asshole or something.

What you think you're doing and what you're actually doing aren't converging, man. Step back a little. I'm not ATTACKING you VENGEFULLY or whatever. I think if you re-read my posts with those blinders off, it'll come across more like Lance read it.

Post
#121733
Topic
What about you? The moment when you "divorced" from the Lucas policy about SW?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/121733/action/topic#121733
Time
I'm not trying to turn it into something else, man, you are. I'm saying EXACTLY what it is. I'm sorta surprised you, of all people, are trying to defend it like you are. What you're saying is that wishing death on someone doesn't mean anything if they don't have the means to kill them. That's an entirely shallow point of view, besides which, as absurd as it might sound, you have no idea if this wackjob doesn't have the means or the will to do it. It's the internet, man. There's plenty of cases where people talking dirt on the net have ended up ACTUALLY DOING it. For instance--the guy who just kidnapped, molested and killed a child in Idaho.

Yes, this dude is more than likely 100 percent NOT going to do it. Yes, he's just venting. But it's a very low thing to say, even if venting, and excusing it because you happen to not like the guy he's wishing death upon is just weak sauce, man. There's really no way around it. It's not because I don't understand where he's coming from, or the people in this forum. I've lurked for a long time, I can tell who's posting what without having to read their username.

And I HAVE had death (and worse) wished upon me. I don't take it personally--but I do make a mental note not to take anything that person ever says later even remotely seriously. I sure as hell don't make excuses for him, even if I know he doesn't REALLY mean it. But maybe he does. If Lucas got hit with a car tomorrow, and that guy applauded his death, (as it appears he would) would you still stick up for him because he hangs out in a tight knit forum? Would you explain away his irrational, destructive and wholly mean-spirited comments simply because you think it was awful that Greedo shot first? Can't you see how that's a pretty thin reason to let something that screwed up slide?

It wouldn't be as big a deal if this board didn't pride itself on the quality of its posters so often. It's hard to take such claims seriously when you're eager to sweep something as stupid as "I hope he dies a horrible, painful death" under the rug without even so much as an eye-roll.

And it's very disingenuous to say that there wouldn't be at the LEAST a public ass-reaming if someone traipsed into one of your threads, said "MeBe should die a painful death," if not a banning depending on what admin or moderator stumbled across it. You can say it wouldn't bother you, but the close-knit community everyone prides themselves on ASSURES that other people would take him to task for you.

Be real about it, man. it's alright to admit that wishing death on someone for "screwing up" some fantasy movies is a bullshit move. There's plenty of other ways to express dissatisfaction than having to stoop that low. I know for a fact YOU'VE never done it, so there's gotta be a reason for that, right?

[edit - just noticed I posted this at 11:38. That's a sign, I think ]
Post
#121722
Topic
What about you? The moment when you "divorced" from the Lucas policy about SW?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/121722/action/topic#121722
Time
Quote
That's because everyone else here understands that this is simply someone venting frustration,


But that's not really the point, is it. There's not really any excuse for wishing anyone dead at any time. Especially over something as ultimately minor as a movie. Whether said in jest or "frustration" or not. the fact someone would get THAT frustrated as to wish someone's death over it is entirely more disturbing than either someone saying "I like the SE's better than the originals." or "I re-edited all the movies to better fit my personal vision."

But yet the fiercest, meanest, most personal arguments will break out over those two lines. And no one says anything about "I wish he was dead." at all. As a matter of fact, I guarantee that if he said "I wish MeBeJedi would just fucking DIE." there would be a banning rather swiftly. But since he said "I wish George Lucas would die" he gets a pass.

There's something wrong with that, and something wrong with making excuses for it. It doesn't fit on a board where the posters seem to take great pride in how different they are from other websites. If you guys think you're better than that, (and it's obvious most of you do) you really need to BE better than that instead of writing off and making excuses for some of the dumbest shit said on a Star Wars board.
Post
#121703
Topic
Super Healing Obi-Wan!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/121703/action/topic#121703
Time
Yeah, he was knocked out before he hit the ground. Watch his head snap back after crashing into the catwalk in the first place, and then land face first on the floor. If he was still awake at that point, he would have rolled over and moved out of the way before Dooku dropped the thing on him. Or he would have moved when it skidded him a few feet out. but he doesn't even register that something has fallen at any point, so it's pretty easy to see he was knocked out before he ever hit the floor. You don't even have to read the book to figure that.