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THX

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Join date
21-Apr-2005
Last activity
11-Dec-2006
Posts
1,263

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Post
#161712
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161712/action/topic#161712
Time
Agreed that according to the current Lucas system, Qui-Gon is the only force-ghost other than Ben, Yoda & Anakin who could appear at the end of RotJ. However, just because he can, doesn't mean he should. That scene is about Luke seeing that his father has indeed redeemed himself. Luke knows Ben and Yoda, but doesn't know Qui-Gon, so there's no reason for Qui-Gon to appear to Luke. Qui-Gon also could appear on Dagobah in ESB or RotJ but doesn't - so why here?
Post
#161160
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161160/action/topic#161160
Time
While we're on Jedi, here's a post I made in MagFan's thread last week which might be appropriate here:

Originally posted by: THX, Thu December 01, 2005 11:41 AM
Long ago, before this forum, before there were prequels, I had a plan to re-edit RotJ (shock, horror, scandal). It never happened, as there was no DVD then and no access to 5.1 mixes. Now I know you are going to do all the movies eventually so I'd like to request for you to incorporate the main feature of my old plan: re-dub the Ewoks. Of course, judging by your prequels, you may well already be planning this. The idea wouldn't be to give them subs like your JarJar & Nemoidians, since I think it works that we don't know what they're saying, but just to change the tone of their characters. Okay, they look like teddy bears. Nothing can be done about that (CG wookiees?). But I think a lot of their silliness comes from the way they sound. If they had deeper, more guttural voices (think Samurai warriors in Kurosawa's films) they would be far less cute, and seem more serious, which would make their eventual victory over the imperial troops much more believable. This would be helped by removing their most comical antics like the guy who accidentally wraps his bolas around himself and so on. Just wanted to share this with you - I'm sure whatever you come up with will be great.


Post
#161157
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161157/action/topic#161157
Time
If it can be made to work without major continuity issues, the idea of bringing Dagobah forward is great. One of the major disappointments with RotJ was the lack of Jedi training - this would help that a lot as well as helping the "plan, what plan?" problem.

I don't see how Leia/Boushh can deliver Chewie before the droids arrive as I don't think Threepio can be cut from that scene.

Luke USES THE FORCE to bring door down on the Rancor - great idea.

Good suggested cuts: droid torture, Sarlacc burp, frog creature outside Jabba's palace, Salacious Crumb (can he go entirely?), less Gammorrean guards, less Rebo band.
Post
#160827
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160827/action/topic#160827
Time
I agree with TheDemonHunter that Ben is not lacking integrity in ANH, he is worried about what might happen to Luke if he knows too much too soon, having witnessed those problems with Anakin. I also agree with Commander Courage that there are numerous issues with Luke knowing in ANH. The reveal coming on Dagobah makes more sense, and seems like a good compromise between the various opinions on this. CC's Ben's hut scene works well toward this. Glad you edited Ben's 1st line. I still wonder how the ESB scene will work though?
Post
#160120
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160120/action/topic#160120
Time
Once again, I'd like to encourage your efforts and look forward to seeing the results. Now I'm going to offer some more constructive criticism. Please let me know if you don't find this process useful and I'll stop.

Movies work if and when the characters in them work - we understand and sympathise with their reasons and motivations and these tie directly to the plot of the movie. This is the biggest reason why the OT is better than the PT. If the audience loses touch with the emotions of the character(s), the movie ceases to move them. Now, as soon as Ben tells Luke his father is out there, Luke will have a specific goal - to find and confront his father- which is quite separate from his goal of rescuing the princess (and by extension the galaxy). However, for the rest of the movie, he makes no effort towards this goal. His reaction when he sees his father ("Ben!") is totally inappropriate. Thes factors will put the audience in a position of not understanding their hero - fatal for any movie.

Also, Luke's reactions toward Vader in ESB are totally inappropriate to the scenario you describe.

If you are set on this basic idea, I think you'd be better advised to just cut the "betrayed and murdered your father" bit from Ben's hut and figure out a way to have Ben tell Luke the truth about Vader on Dagobah in ESB.
Post
#160089
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160089/action/topic#160089
Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
It's hardly surprising to see how divisive the idea of Making Ben Tell the Truth is.
But you're not "Making Ben Tell the Truth", you're making him tell Luke Vader is his father, while withholding the fact that he tried to kill him. This is a selective truth, just like the official version.

they don't tell him because it would screw up the "reveal."

The same reason you don't have Ben tell Luke about his attempt to kill Anakin.

The "reveal" in ESB is broken in the Saga. We already know the truth. The only reason it worked in the OT as a "reveal" is that we didn't know.

I repeat: from the "saga" point of view, IT DOESN'T MATTER that we know Vader is Luke's father from the PT and he doesn't. The revelation still works if it's only to Luke, and it's arguably more interesting for the audience to be party to information that he doesn't have, wondering IF and WHEN he'll find out.

Question: How can Vader make the "shocking" revelation that Ben tried to kill him in ESB, when Luke watched Ben try to kill Vader in ANH?
Post
#160074
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160074/action/topic#160074
Time
Thanks for your reply. However, you didn't address points 1) & 2) from my post. I have no objection to your edit in principle - this is intended to be constructive criticism. After all it's better to work out your ideas in full now than do all the work and then find they don't work.

Klingon_Jedi's idea for Ep III ("Tell the children of their true parantage we must not, Obi-Wan. Better they believe a different truth than the terrible one that is. Until the time is right, unaware they must be.") seems much better.

If you really don't want Ben to lie, then TheDemonHunter's idea (cut "how did my father die") could be made to work, or you could just have Ben not answer that question.

Most importantly, from the "saga" point of view, IT DOESN'T MATTER that we know Vader is Luke's father from the PT and he doesn't. The revelation still works if it's only to Luke, and it's arguably more interesting for the audience to be party to information that he doesn't have, wondering IF and WHEN he'll find out.
Post
#160065
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/160065/action/topic#160065
Time
I don't think this is going to work. Aside from the fact that it will be technically very difficult to manufacture natural sounding new lines for Vader and that Luke's current lines don't work with this storyline:

1) the ESB scene is shot and played as a hugely dramatic revelation. Vader revealing that Obi-Wan tried to kill him after he turned to evil would not engender the type of reaction that Luke has in that scene;
2) the premise of the idea is to "redeem Obi Wan and make him honorable again" but it still turns upon the fact that "Obi Wan didn't mention this. He lied!"

There's not a lot of redemptive/honor-oriented difference between Ben concealing Vader's relationship to Luke and concealing his attempted killing of Vader.

Anyway, in ANH, Ben isn't lying to Luke to manipulate him, he is trying to protect him.

Not to mention that the ESB scene is one of the high points of the OT as it is - and if it aint broke...
Post
#159764
Topic
Idea & found on ebay: 16mm film SCOPE Star Wars RETURN of THE JEDI MINT LPP
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159764/action/topic#159764
Time
The purpose of getting prints would be working towards an HD master. The X0 project is likely to go as far as possible with an SD version, and the LDs are a decent source for that. My guess is that their results will be so good that there would be no point in spending the time and money it would take on trying to get a new transfer for SD. But the limitations of the LDs will be clearer when compared with forthcoming HD formats.

Yes, it will be hard to get an HD telecine done - but not impossible. Worth considering though is that any one print (or trilogy collection) is not going to be perfect. It will have splices and color issues that won't make an acceptable master on its own. Therefore you'll need to get two or three prints of each movie to make a complete master. Again this can be done - but at what price? A more realistic approach might be to try to arrange to loan prints from a number of collectors who are interested in preservation if and when the telecine connection is made.
Post
#159762
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159762/action/topic#159762
Time
MagFan,

long ago, before this forum, before there were prequels, I had a plan to re-edit RotJ (shock, horror, scandal). It never happened, as there was no DVD then and no access to 5.1 mixes. Now I know you are going to do all the movies eventually so I'd like to request for you to incorporate the main feature of my old plan: re-dub the Ewoks. Of course, judging by your prequels, you may well already be planning this. The idea wouldn't be to give them subs like your JarJar & Nemoidians, since I think it works that we don't know what they're saying, but just to change the tone of their characters. Okay, they look like teddy bears. Nothing can be done about that (CG wookiees?). But I think a lot of their silliness comes from the way they sound. If they had deeper, more guttural voices (think Samurai warriors in Kurosawa's films) they would be far less cute, and seem more serious, which would make their eventual victory over the imperial troops much more believable. This would be helped by removing their most comical antics like the guy who accidentally wraps his bolas around himself and so on. Just wanted to share this with you - I'm sure whatever you come up with will be great.
Post
#159761
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159761/action/topic#159761
Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Thanks for the kind words. I think when you go through this thread, you'll see how often I've been shaken off bad ideas and shown better ones, so I feel confident I'll be more than satisfied with Trooperman's work

It sounds like Trooperman is doing a great job with AOTC, I was only referring to TPM. But it looks like that might be happening now.

I'm in agreement with TM on the OT, though. No changes needed there (well, maybe RotJ).
Post
#159225
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159225/action/topic#159225
Time
I'm new to this thread, so please excuse my ignorance of the early stages - I will try to catch up at some point. I just read the last three pages or so. Also, apologies to Trooperman as these comments are not related to SotDS.

MTHaslett - somebody has to get you onto some editing software! Your analysis and reconstruction of TPM is the best I've read, bar none. All your ideas are streamlined and coherent. The trouble is, you'll never be satisfied with an edit which uses some of your ideas and leaves out others. So please, do your own edit.