- Post
- #222853
- Topic
- OT.com = TFN?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222853/action/topic#222853
- Time

THX
- User Group
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- 21-Apr-2005
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- 11-Dec-2006
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- Post
- #222815
- Topic
- Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222815/action/topic#222815
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- Post
- #222814
- Topic
- OT.com = TFN?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222814/action/topic#222814
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- Post
- #222812
- Topic
- Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222812/action/topic#222812
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- Post
- #222782
- Topic
- OT.com = TFN?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222782/action/topic#222782
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- Post
- #222772
- Topic
- Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222772/action/topic#222772
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- Post
- #222752
- Topic
- Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222752/action/topic#222752
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SW 10
ESB 9
ROTJ 7
TPM 1
AOTC 3
ROTS 2
- Post
- #222739
- Topic
- Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222739/action/topic#222739
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- Post
- #222722
- Topic
- Info: DC & Faces - Original audio sources (lots of information)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222722/action/topic#222722
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Similarly, the 70mm mix was a trial method used to take advantage of new technology. As Dave Schnuelle explained, that technology came to be used differently, so the '93 mix was a somewhat fudged attempt to update the '77 mixes to a contemporary style.
Ultimately you have to ask if you're looking for "theatrical authenticity" or the best representation of the original mix(es) with today's home theater set-ups, which are arguably two different things.
- Post
- #222625
- Topic
- Ages of Luke & Leia
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222625/action/topic#222625
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- Post
- #222622
- Topic
- Help: looking for... 'Blast it, Wedge!' footage in high quality?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222622/action/topic#222622
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- Post
- #222604
- Topic
- OT.com = TFN?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222604/action/topic#222604
- Time
- Post
- #222569
- Topic
- Info: DC & Faces - Original audio sources (lots of information)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222569/action/topic#222569
- Time
Originally posted by: THX
Now we know that the '93 mix combined some of each, with additional effects.
ESB is a different story. The 4-track master mix referred to was used for the 35mm prints. As there are known differences between this and the 70mm mix, it could not form the basis of a 70mm mix reconstruction (regardless of the addition of LFE). Again, a 4.1 mix would best be derived using only a 6-track print master.Originally posted by: scotactor
Presenting a near-exact copy of the 2-track Dolby Stereo mix would be a bit easier. The 4-track master can simply be matrixed into a new Lt/Rt print as a 2.0 Dolby Surround mix, which upon playback decodes to recreate the 4 channels.
Yes and no. While the 4-track masters would likely be the best sources for Dolby stereo mixes, simply matrixing them into 2.0 wouldn't accurately recreate the theatrical 35mm mix. For that, you'd have to limit them (as they were at the time for the capability of optical sound tracks with Dolby A-type noise reduction).Now we know that the '93 mix combined some of each, with additional effects.
Originally posted by: belbucus
I re-read the excerpt and can find this stated nowhere. It seems clearly outlined that the basic track for the ’93 mix comes from the 6-track print master only. Well, it combined 4 tracks ("some") of the 6-track print master and an effects-only master (which I grant you is not really "some" of the 4-track master in the same sense), with additional effects. Also, when I said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like using the 4-track plus the effects-only master (since home theater setups only use one LFE channel ".1"), both 70mm soundtracks for ANH and Empire can be presented on DVD as a Dolby Digital 4.1 mix.
This is one way a 4.1 mix could be made for SW. Another would be using the 4 tracks of the 6-track print master plus the effects-only master (similar to what was done in '93 but with discrete tracks). Both of these would work reasonably well, but neither would be accurate to the theatrical presentation. A more authentic way to make a 4.1 mix would be to use only the 6-track print master, folding the two "baby boom" tracks into one.I re-read the excerpt and can find this stated nowhere. It seems clearly outlined that the basic track for the ’93 mix comes from the 6-track print master only. Well, it combined 4 tracks ("some") of the 6-track print master and an effects-only master (which I grant you is not really "some" of the 4-track master in the same sense), with additional effects. Also, when I said:
Originally posted by: THX
What's most interesting is the description of how the original 70mm 6-track mix for Star Wars was derived from the 4-track master. I should have italicized the "how". However, the 6-track mix was indeed derived from a 4-track master, as I think is implied in your original quote:
Originally posted by: scotactor
The article didn't mention if the 4-track for ANH still exists, but I would assume it's a major possibility.
One would hope so, but the article above casts doubt on this, as they settled for the 6-track print master.Originally posted by: scotactorWhat's most interesting is the description of how the original 70mm 6-track mix for Star Wars was derived from the 4-track master. I should have italicized the "how". However, the 6-track mix was indeed derived from a 4-track master, as I think is implied in your original quote:
Originally posted by: belbucus, quoting Dave Schnuelle
...what they did to derive the boom channel was to filter out the bass of the complete mix, containing dialogue, music, and effects, and add it back in as the Left Extra and Right Extra channels. Additionally, here is a quote from a July 1977 article in American Cinematographer by Ioan Allen:
Because of the dual release requirements, six-track 70mm and stereo optical, a four-track master was prepared, carrying left, center, right and surround information. At the end of the mix, the four-track was used to prepare a two-track running master for stereo optical use, and the same four-track was also taken to Todd-AO where it was used to make a six-track running master for 70mm.
The complete article can be found here. Anyway, I appreciate your insights into this and look forward to your comparison audio files.
...for home theater, a mix derived from the 4-track master should, in fact be better.
...what they did to derive the boom channel was to filter out the bass of the complete mix, containing dialogue, music, and effects, and add it back in as the Left Extra and Right Extra channels. Additionally, here is a quote from a July 1977 article in American Cinematographer by Ioan Allen:
Because of the dual release requirements, six-track 70mm and stereo optical, a four-track master was prepared, carrying left, center, right and surround information. At the end of the mix, the four-track was used to prepare a two-track running master for stereo optical use, and the same four-track was also taken to Todd-AO where it was used to make a six-track running master for 70mm.
The complete article can be found here. Anyway, I appreciate your insights into this and look forward to your comparison audio files.
Originally posted by: scotactor
On "Star Wars" [...], in order to present the two multichannel soundtracks [...] as closely as possible to the theatrical originals, they should use the 4-track master mixes.
Agreed. This is what I meant by:Originally posted by: THXOn "Star Wars" [...], in order to present the two multichannel soundtracks [...] as closely as possible to the theatrical originals, they should use the 4-track master mixes.
...for home theater, a mix derived from the 4-track master should, in fact be better.
Originally posted by: scotactor
The article didn't mention if the 4-track for ANH still exists, but I would assume it's a major possibility.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like using the 4-track plus the effects-only master (since home theater setups only use one LFE channel ".1"), both 70mm soundtracks for ANH and Empire can be presented on DVD as a Dolby Digital 4.1 mix.
ESB is a different story. The 4-track master mix referred to was used for the 35mm prints. As there are known differences between this and the 70mm mix, it could not form the basis of a 70mm mix reconstruction (regardless of the addition of LFE). Again, a 4.1 mix would best be derived using only a 6-track print master.Originally posted by: scotactor
Presenting a near-exact copy of the 2-track Dolby Stereo mix would be a bit easier. The 4-track master can simply be matrixed into a new Lt/Rt print as a 2.0 Dolby Surround mix, which upon playback decodes to recreate the 4 channels.

- Post
- #222558
- Topic
- Episode I: PaulisDead2221's Edit (* unfinished project *)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222558/action/topic#222558
- Time
Originally posted by: Miasta
I have always had an idea for the ending that I think would be better then the original, or any of the awesome fan edits I have seen so far; and probably not too hard to pull of. Basically it is to get rid of the ENTIRE celebration parade.
Best. Idea. Ever. I have always had an idea for the ending that I think would be better then the original, or any of the awesome fan edits I have seen so far; and probably not too hard to pull of. Basically it is to get rid of the ENTIRE celebration parade.
- Post
- #221274
- Topic
- Info: DC & Faces - Original audio sources (lots of information)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221274/action/topic#221274
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- Post
- #221272
- Topic
- Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221272/action/topic#221272
- Time
Originally posted by: Vigo
You guys might be interested in the fact, that the German dub on my 1995 THX Laserdisc was apparently made using the original mono track, since ALL sound effects and ALL dialogue matches the mono sound examples i heard on the page.
I'm not sure I understand this, Vigo - how can the dialogue match if it's a German dub?You guys might be interested in the fact, that the German dub on my 1995 THX Laserdisc was apparently made using the original mono track, since ALL sound effects and ALL dialogue matches the mono sound examples i heard on the page.
- Post
- #220916
- Topic
- Info: DC & Faces - Original audio sources (lots of information)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220916/action/topic#220916
- Time
- Post
- #220664
- Topic
- **Mini-Contest: Legacy Edition Logo - $150**
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220664/action/topic#220664
- Time

- Post
- #220663
- Topic
- 1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220663/action/topic#220663
- Time

- Post
- #220662
- Topic
- Info: DC & Faces - Original audio sources (lots of information)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220662/action/topic#220662
- Time
- Post
- #220520
- Topic
- Sets
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220520/action/topic#220520
- Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
...in fantasy films, especially Star Wars, it's almost unavoidable.
Although there is none in SW, ESB or ROTJ....in fantasy films, especially Star Wars, it's almost unavoidable.

- Post
- #220317
- Topic
- World Cup 2006
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220317/action/topic#220317
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- Post
- #220289
- Topic
- World Cup 2006
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220289/action/topic#220289
- Time

- Post
- #220272
- Topic
- I actaully PREFER seeing the black bars, even on my widescreen TV.
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220272/action/topic#220272
- Time
- Post
- #220252
- Topic
- What Special Edition changes (if any) did people like?
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220252/action/topic#220252
- Time