Studio Toledo

Originally posted by: Esn
Yikes. If it's not someone from this forum, this could get expensive.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Slightly off topic:
When I was a kid, the first book on animation I ever really had was The Animator's Workbook by British animator Tony White. The beautiful artwork was also my first introduction to the style of animation that Richard Williams had begun out in London.

I've spoken to Mr. White more recently giving my respect for his work, and I'm excited that he's got a new book out. I've seen his reel as well as his new film Endangered Species ... the man is as talented as ever.

Here's a great, long interview with him about the book and the status of the animation industry in general.

http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=12129

Originally posted by: OgOggilby
It's ironic that they show Zig-Zag with Phido on his shoulder since the only scene depicting that was not included in any released version (the shot of Zig-Zag going down his tower's staircase).

Originally posted by: TServo2049
It's been described on several advance-info sites as "Widescreen Collector's Edition," so it's probably that.
As long as it's not a non-anamorphic release, I'm fine with that!


They just wanna ram that Aladdin Rip-off mentality to the ground with this!

At least we'll be getting an anamorphic widescreen version that will undoubtedly be superior to the R2 release.

Originally posted by: DaveHolmes
Here's the image:

Originally posted by: ocpmovie


Here's your first look at the Weinstein's weird attempt to cash in on the buzz about Richard Williams and The Thief (and, yeah, this project).

Even in this small image you can tell that their pop-up castle and characters are way off model, particularly Tack, but it's a cute touch for small children.
Funny I can't see the image anymore, but maybe it was for the best I don't know just yet!

Very strange.

Current rumor is that the release might be fullscreen, which would make it no different from the previous (awful) Miramax release, which was notable for really oversaturated, dark and garish colors (which weren't present on the VHS or Japanese release).

I doubt this, and expect the release will at least be widescreen.

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/thief-and-the-cobbler.html

Planned for November 21st, this release of the butchered Arabian Knight cut is certainly a shame in every way, but true Richard Williams fans probably won't mind shelling out $20 for this cute and unusual bit of kid-friendly packaging. It's not like many of us haven't bought the butchered cuts of the film several times over already.

Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Just looked at DeviantArt... there's 4x as much fanart than a few months ago. A lot of it is off-model (but decent), while there's some stuff that looks as good as work in the film itself.
At least people are getting inspired to do something about it!

Although, someone drew an erotic lesbian encounter between Princess Jasimine and Yum-Yum. Ugh.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Cheers Booah. Yeah, Kamahni who won the competition was angry they cut out any clips of him actually showing any talent - the winner!

It's truly frightening, and what you get is a show about nothing, starring no one, containing zilch.

Where is the genuine irreverence, the reality? Where are the networks who aren't "owned," and willing to create something worth watching, rather than something corporate which tells the public "You are dumb, and this kind of shit is all you deserve to watch?"
This is probably why I stopped watching anything much on basic cable myself! I don't see any real use in it much these days.


That's true. The rest of that cover (besides the back cover text) looks worthy of being printed on paperboard (as opposed to a regular Amaray case)!

Completely off topic, and a shameless plug ... here's a new work-in-progress clip from the animated show I'm working on, Dance With Grandpa.
http://www.orangecow.org/videos/grandpaclipv3.avi
(12.8 megs)

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bKC3ADWZFA

Originally posted by: ocpmovie

Here's a speed run on the Roger Rabbit NES game. Wow, this game actually did suck, didn't it ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypExqKPAYAk

Originally posted by: TServo2049

Well I do have the tape, so I could watch that, and compare that to the original to get an idea of what happened. I just don't feel like putting the effort into it anyway, but if I have to I would.

Thinking of what happened with these classics in the hands of Miramax makes me think of the other animated classics I've enjoyed that had similar tragedies in their first releases stateside, like Miyazaki's "Nausicaa" back in the mid 80's. The company that bothered with this felt they couldn't distribute a nearly 2 hour animated feature theatrically so they had to go and cut that baby down to around 90 minutes, re-write the scripts with name changes and Saturday morning-type dialogue, and some lackluster voice acting to boot (often a rumor went out June Foray voiced the lead character but it's been stated she didn't, but it sounds nearly like her). Somehow they only managed to get that into one or to places in the US before a home video release came out later for the rest to see the horror, not knowing of the true classic it would become in later years (at least Disney didn't let us down on their DVD release a few years back, replaced my fansub pretty good, though I also have Japanese laserdisc copy as well).

I guess you'll just have to watch it for yourself, and find out. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions just from the guy's description. I'd never even heard about the film before I read said page, so I apologize for making such a rash statement.

Anyway...this is about The Thief and the Cobbler. Let's not get off-topic here.

Originally posted by: TServo2049
Well, who would have trusted the Weinsteins to do anything truly good with the same film they were responsible for the final bloody mangling of?

Disney may have owned Miramax at the time, but trust me, the Weinsteins were the ones who ruled the roost just the same.

These are the same Weinsteins who only left "Princess Mononoke" untouched because Hayao Miyazaki sent them a real samurai sword, with the note "NO CUTS."
These are the same Weinsteins who were partners in crime, with fellow Thief-wrecker Jake Eberts, on the generally despised Americanization of the "Magic Roundabout" movie.

Originally posted by: OgOggilby
OCP, did you ever watch The Comedy of Terrors? Right now, I picture the Brothers Weinstein as morticians re-using the same coffin for another body.

Can't wait for that awesome packaging, though. They should have splurged and made it a 2-disc release by including the fantastic soundtrack.


So, between the new Star Wars DVDs and this, how does it feel to have a one-person operation outdoing major studios?

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
To everyone who's been waiting for your discs, and I do mean EVERYONE ...

They were mailed out today en masse.

Originally posted by: Doctor M
People keep mentioning the Disney and the upcoming DVD release.
It should be mentioned the Weinstein Company is NOT part of Disney. The Weinsteins left Miramax and Disney. Looks like they took Thief and the Cobbler with them.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
>>Maybe you should send him a DVD regardless


I did.

I also sent one to Robert Zemeckis.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
I was just saying that to say it really.

Here's a bit of Ebayness.

http://cgi.ebay.com/FUNNYWORLD-19-Frank-Frazetta-Animated-RICHARD-WILLIAMS_W0QQitemZ230022341538QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3967QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Interesting theory from Jeffrey Gray, of one powerful exec's role in the whole mess.

Patrick and I have often discussed Jake
Eberts' role in the whole debacle. Consider:

-He was executive producer of both the WB and Calvert versions, sold
the
film to Miramax, and actually commended Miramax on what they did to the
film;
-He was the one who complained that there was too much Thief, that Tack
and
the Thief didn't talk, that there wasn't enough Tack and Yum-Yum stuff;
-He was also the one responsible for the gang-rape of The Magic
Roundabout
for the "Doogal" U.S. release, as Patrick tells me.
A film I didn't even bother to see at all, even though I was a bit interested in seeing how well they adapted the stop-motion figures to CGI and such (and had saw the original shorts on Nickelodeon 25 years back).


Jack the Middle Man strikes again!

-Eberts would have had a reason to facilitate Williams being thrown
off,
because only without Williams would he have gotten all the stuff he
wanted,
and did get in the Calvert version.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Sort of brought the first post up to date. I always find that weird, when the first post is up to date and then followed by the very early posts of a project. The first post is a hodgepodge now of early stuff and newer info.


Hey, who wants to read the script to The Majestic Fool?

http://orangecow.org/thief/themajesticfoolscreenplay.txt

This strange 1969 script starred Mullah Nasrudin - this is the script that eventually evolved into the Thief and the Cobbler. Although almost unrecognizable from what it later became, you'll recognize elements including a lot of sight gags with The Thief, and many supporting characters.

This was OCR-scanned from a copy. Thus, the automatic text-recognizing system made a lot of mistakes. I've cleaned up the first third or so of the script, ending at the cave lair scene with Anwar and the vulture. The rest may be harder to read.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
That's a generous offer Patrick ... but if anyone's going to do a full, alternate edit of this film at this point, somehow I think it should be me or an official release or nothing. At this point, I'm saying nothing. =\

Taolar - My best sources believe that both Disney and Richard saved a good deal of material from this film. No one knows for sure, though.


Good news - I've just completed the latest disc in the Richard Williams Collection.

Entitled "Animated Ads," it's jam-packed with good things.

I've actually authored it to replace the old "Animating Art" disc, because there was some overlap of content (you'll see why I did this when you see the tracklisting). If you have the old Animating Art disc, keep it - the old one has Oscar Grillo's Seaside Woman and another print of I Drew Roger Rabbit on it; the new one will not.
You know I'll keep mine!



Neat to see my contribution getting added as well! Wasn't sure if it was going to be just combined with the other commercials or separated. Love to see what the ones from the other sources would look like in NTSC 24p soon!

Animating Art - 38 minutes - Documentary about Art Babbit's work and career, as he works at Richard Williams studio educating the animators there. Courtesy of Eddie Bowers, the same (mediocre quality) print seen on the old Animating Art disc.

Nasruddin "Bread Scene" clip from One Pair of Eyes: Dreamwalkers - 5 minutes. Courtesy of Tahir Shah. You'll see it on new versions of The Thief Recobbled, but you can get it here too .... a remarkable rare clip from the film that became The Thief, circa 1966-1968. Kenneth Williams plays characters including the character that became Zigzag.

Roger Rabbit Trailer - 3 minutes in DVD quality. Courtesy of Patrick McCart.

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum end titles - 2.5 minutes in DVD quality.

Warner Bros. Thief and the Cobbler Licensing Trailer - 6.5 minutes, courtesy of Roy Naisbitt. Now converted to widescreen progressive scan NTSC 24p. Contains several shots not in the final film.

The Thief and the Cobbler Calvert Cut: Allied Filmmakers Trailer - 2 minutes. Courtesy of J.P. Cummings, this rare trailer reflects the "Princess" version of the film.

Arabian Knight Trailer - 2 minutes. Courtesy of baby hum, this DVD quality trailer reflects the Arabian Knight version of the film.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
The Arabian Knight trailer, Allied Trailer, commentary and "about the film" are left off of the version I prepared for certain animators (and for Dick) ... no need for 'em.

We can always hope that a better workprint turns up. The one we have is pretty good for storyboards, but not so much for pencil tests and things.

I intend to try to send my cut to Dick anyway ... see what he thinks. If I get an opinion from the master himself, maybe I can then make a version more suited to his specifications. =)
Something about this kinda reminds me of the kind of anxieties I used to get when I do something, and had to see if it gets an approval or praise by the teacher I had back in school. Too often I would get the lecture to improve more or to refined what it is I'm trying to convey in my art, and often I feel a bit let down, not too ashamed, but it's one of those things I grew out of over time.

At the moment, I'm still working quite hard on a brand-new Richard Williams Collection DVD .... This will contain NTSC 24p versions of many, many Williams studio commercials, all of which have been converted from PAL, cleaned up, color corrected and generally prettified for DVD ... as well as the Warners trailer and whatever else fits on the disc.

Originally posted by: tweaker

It's the sort of think that separates the amatures from the pros in many cases.

But yeah, as far as Williams himself goes, it's necessary to tread much more carefully.

Garrett, perhaps you could try getting the word out to Williams' son (and some of the animators out there that have seen/heard of the edit) that there is some interest in a purist edit that Williams himself would enjoy, but that the quality of the materials available isn't good enough for such an edit...maybe some kind soul would be willing to supply material of sufficient quality to make such an edit possible.

Until then, for the scholars, there is the workprint. For the rest of the people, the public, who are the ones that will actually keep the memory of this film alive, and make it matter, there is the recobbled version.

Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Well put.