SparkySywer

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Would it have been though?

Vladius said:

He needs to confront Vader to face his fear and resist the dark side in a final spiritual confrontation. It’s a continuation of the events of Empire Strikes Back. He failed in the cave specifically because he brought his weapons with him and he was full of fear. He failed at fighting Vader both because he was unprepared physically, but also spiritually. Now that he has his training, he’s prepared, so he needs to do it. As Yoda tells him, it’s his final trial to become a Jedi. He has to meet Vader again face-to-face, and gain the victory by resisting temptation. That includes the temptation to join Vader because he’s his father.

I did not consider this. Thank you for the interesting read!

WitchDR said:

I agree Skybatman.

I’m hopeful if they keep damaging the brand over and over again like they are, eventually it will get to the point they have to sell it because there’s no return anymore. So long as Disney’s name is attached to it, no ones showing up. This would be the absolute best outcome for the brand.

The fact they keep doubling down on terrible ideas, tells me they are gonna do just that.

Star Wars makes too much money from merchandising for it to ever not be profitable. If they ever wanted to give up on making Star Wars they’ll probably just sit on the IP like dragons.

G&G-Fan said:

SparkySywer said:

G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?

Mostly the latter. The former heavily depends on execution, but it’s not a good choice in the film as it’s scripted, structured, presented, etc. Another thing to be considered is tact.

I don’t feel like it’s a new low in the sense that I expect him to have some a higher conscience or moral code than this, but it’s definitely a different kind of evil to what he does in the OT.

George Lucas seems to have written himself into a spot where there are children who have to be killed by this regime, but I feel like there’s a big difference in characterization between depicting a guy who leads troops into a bloodbath where children die, and depicting a guy who personally stabs children who trust him.

Would you feel the same way if George Lucas depicted Anakin as having killed small animals as a teenager? That’s also something I don’t think Darth Vader would have some moral problem with, but making him into the kind of guy who used to do that changes his characterization significantly.

Him killing kids, plus him killing the sand people, make Anakin seem like he was always just a bad egg. I think that’s what you like about it, but if the prequels are supposed to be about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, I think it makes it a lot less tragic.

It might be different if the scene was in a different context, but I also don’t think gradually leading into it more wouldn’t change it that much.

G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?

When is Leia whiny?

Maybe they just fell out of fashion

I don’t think anyone’s “afraid” to say it, nobody’s going to come and put you in jail for saying media that’s about and for men and their experiences is a good thing. Although I don’t think men are starved for male protagonists.

What do you mean by rubbing shoulders with unpleasant youtube grifters? Are you watching them and taking what they say seriously, or just failing to disagree with them on this one thing?

Honestly, it’s surprising to me that “Fandom Menace” grifters are still around. Disney Star Wars has been consistently pointless and not worth following for years now, nobody I know in real life is even watching it anymore. It’s also why I feel really surprised about the backlash to the Acolyte.

Not to shit on Star Wars too much. The reason we’re still talking about it, and the reason we’re still coming back here, is because it meant something to us once and we have a lot to say.

I don’t think any particular line bothers me as much as some of the dumb exchanges in this movie

QUI-GON: Your highness, with your permission we’re headed for a remote planet called Tatooine. It’s in a system far beyond the reach of the Trade Federation.
PANAKA: I do not agree with the Jedi on this one.
QUI-GON: You must trust my judgement.
End of scene.

This scene is so stupid and pointless and it grinds my gears so bad

Superweapon VII said:

Star Wars doesn’t have to be Cocomelon to still be for kids. It can still have some level of maturity while not being on the same level of maturity as media made for adults.

Vladius said:

I addressed that already. Obi Wan is saying that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader, but he’s not sending him to kill Vader, as that would be pointless. The word they use is confront. I already posted this somewhere else but there’s a quote from one of the Timothy Zahn books where Luke talks about this, he says that he assumed that when they told him to confront Vader that that meant he would have to kill him, but that was wrong and that wasn’t necessarily what they meant. Not that that is Disney canon or G canon, but it shows that before the prequels that was the normal interpretation.

Do you remember which book?

In the conversation they’re having right before this exchange, they’re disagreeing on whether or not Vader has any good left in him. I feel like the post-prequel interpretation makes more sense to me than Obi-Wan just wanting him to be prepared to kill Vader.

Why is sending Luke to kill Vader pointless? What’s the difference in sending him to “confront” Vader if he has to be willing to kill him, anyway?

This is really cool. If OP is still around, it would be cool to see this developed further.

The Original Clone Wars Were Way Different

You guys might find this video interesting

That’s very interesting. Thank you.

I don’t think they’d drop the ST so overtly, it would probably do the opposite of restoring faith in Disney Star Wars. It would be an embarrassing scandal and a major signal in a lack of faith in their own capabilities. They might sweep it under the rug, but does Disney even consider it worth sweeping under the rug? They’re making a Rey movie, after all.

I think what Disney Star Wars would need to become popular again would be a new generation, sub-franchise, series, idk these things are supposed to be called, with compelling new characters to be the new face of Star Wars for the next decade. I think that’s what they were trying to do with The Mandalorian, but it didn’t pan out and I don’t think the first season was designed with that in mind. I don’t think these characters are going to get a second chance.

What parallels do you see with the Wizard of Oz?

It’s my personal opinion, but I don’t feel like we need to see Anakin or Padme get brutalized for me to sympathize with them. Slavery is wrong in and of itself. Even if their master treats them well, they still own them. As a slave, Anakin would never fulfill his potential or make a life of his own, he’d simply be Watto’s property.

Similarly, I don’t feel like I have to see mass murder for me to think that the Trade Federation invading and occupying a sovereign planet is wrong, either, or that Padme’s situation of having to deal with her planet taken by force isn’t dire without seeing it. There’s a couple scenes where they say the Trade Federation is trying to make the people of Naboo suffer to coerce her into making the invasion legal, and maybe it would have helped to show and not tell, but we do still see some of the effects of the occupation, so it’s not like they don’t show it at all.

I also sort of like how young they made kid Anakin. There are some scenes where I feel like it would do the movie well if he acted more mature. But I like kid Anakin’s innocence, and, I’m not sure how to articulate it, but this feeling of Anakin’s life being a blank canvas that I’m not sure would be there if his age was bumped up to being a teenager or older like a lot of people suggest, where he’s already well on his way to being a grown man. Or maybe this is all nostalgia, though. When I was a kid I loved kid Anakin.

I agree though that Obi-Wan’s kind of lame. The older drafts of the movie where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are combined into the same character sound really interesting, and I wish something like that was preserved. Either that, or Obi-Wan was the proactive character and Qui-Gon was another apprentice of his. It is what it is, though

.

Why put The Phantom Menace so low?

What is the essence of her character? I’m curious of what you see in her.

I don’t like Padme. She loses the will to live because her heart got broken, despite having just given birth to two newborn children. Is being there for her vulnerable infants not enough to give her the will to live? Fuck them kids?

Vladius said:

The line “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” is also misinterpreted. Yoda isn’t saying literally any time you get angry or use the Force in anger, you’re beyond hope or redemption. … The consequences of your actions will still be there.

I don’t agree. The full line is “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will! As it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

Specifically look at Yoda’s usage of the word “consume”. Your actions and your decision making will eventually be completely affected by the dark side. It isn’t just that your life is marred by the consequences of your actions, although it is that too, he’s saying that you can’t just dip your toes in the dark side. It’s something that’ll pull you further and further in.

After Return of the Jedi, there’s irony in referring to Darth Vader because he does return to the light. But Darth Vader is, at this point in the story, fully committed to evil. Yoda brings him up to emphasize that once you turn to the dark side, you inevitably become like Darth Vader.

I’ve ranted about this many times before, but Yoda and Obi Wan were not telling Luke to kill Vader.

Luke: “I can’t kill my own father.”

Obi-Wan: “Then the Emperor has already won.”

I don’t remember who, but I remember someone here a few years ago tried using James Earl Jones’s recording of the Bible to replace Vader’s line “Obi-Wan once thought as you do” to “Your mother once thought as you do”. I wonder what that would sound like with AI.

fmalover said:

YouTube user HelloGreedo made what is IMO the best critique of how Palpatine is portrayed. When he first appears in the OT he was inspired by the Roman and Chinese Emperors of old, but the prequels made him so goddamn evil, more akin to a mythological creature from the Underworld.

He’s talking specifically about Clive Revill’s performance in Episode 5. The prequels didn’t make Palpatine like that, Ian McDiarmid did.