SparkySywer

If it derailed in 1983, where was the rail originally headed? Star Wars has always taken older successful ideas and repackaged them into highly commercialized blockbusters, and its own success eventually eclipsed its inspirations. I think Star Wars was always going to end up like this and I agree with JadedSkywalker that we need fresh IP.

G&G Fan, can you give a clip of the matte painting being used in the movie?

Dang. That’s a shame that you feel that way. What changed your mind on this AU specifically?

“Do you want to know why I keep a rabid cur in such a place of power? Because weakness, properly manipulated can be a sharp tool.”

I don’t think the movie sold me on this. Also, Hux is still in the room when he says this lol

Then it’s probably just DNR, which would have been introduced in 2004. It would be worth checking the new Disney versions from 2019 to see if it’s in there (it shouldn’t be if it’s DNR, or should present itself differently since it’s a new scan). I’d do it but I no longer have Disney+ and I don’t have those Blu Rays.

It might be DNR from 2004. Did you rip a Blu Ray to get this or did you do something like a web rip? Are you using the 2011 versions or the new Disney ones from 2019?

Servii said:

I wondered at the time why this moment bugged me, and it’s because Holdo was giving off Dolores Umbridge vibes.

It’s funny that you say that, when I saw The Last Jedi for the first time in 2017, my friend leaned over during this scene and said “This is Umbridge”. I wonder if that made Holdo easier to swallow for me.

I don’t think you have to invoke Hanlon’s razor for the ST. For example, Luke is now a failure whose accomplishments are undone and who unleashes evil onto the galaxy, whose only redemption is that the fake image people have of him might eventually lead to other people cleaning up his mess. I don’t think it’s malicious, because I and a lot of other people thought it was a compelling story and gave Luke some of his best character moments in the saga, but at the same time, he didn’t accidentally stumble into subverting Luke’s entire purpose in the story, and couldn’t have naively thought it would be received well by everybody.

IMO, it’s a symptom of the ST being glorified fanfiction. Rian Johnson is a fan who wrote what he thought was a good story with little input from the original creator of the series, and TLJ would probably fit better if it was a spinoff or AU than as the canonical ending of Luke Skywalker’s story.

Nope actually that line is awesome. So is the kill the past one from Kylo Ren.

I’m not a fan of anything Holdo says in this scene

Blazing hot take I know

I think it’s hardly an insult to say Star Wars dialog sounds like it was written by George Lucas, even if his dialog wasn’t great.

If it counts, it bugs me that when BB8 is beeping right before Poe says “Happy beeps”, it’s supposed to be “I have a bad feeling about this”.

Hire this individual PRONTO

Would it have been though?

Vladius said:

He needs to confront Vader to face his fear and resist the dark side in a final spiritual confrontation. It’s a continuation of the events of Empire Strikes Back. He failed in the cave specifically because he brought his weapons with him and he was full of fear. He failed at fighting Vader both because he was unprepared physically, but also spiritually. Now that he has his training, he’s prepared, so he needs to do it. As Yoda tells him, it’s his final trial to become a Jedi. He has to meet Vader again face-to-face, and gain the victory by resisting temptation. That includes the temptation to join Vader because he’s his father.

I did not consider this. Thank you for the interesting read!

WitchDR said:

I agree Skybatman.

I’m hopeful if they keep damaging the brand over and over again like they are, eventually it will get to the point they have to sell it because there’s no return anymore. So long as Disney’s name is attached to it, no ones showing up. This would be the absolute best outcome for the brand.

The fact they keep doubling down on terrible ideas, tells me they are gonna do just that.

Star Wars makes too much money from merchandising for it to ever not be profitable. If they ever wanted to give up on making Star Wars they’ll probably just sit on the IP like dragons.

G&G-Fan said:

SparkySywer said:

G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?

Mostly the latter. The former heavily depends on execution, but it’s not a good choice in the film as it’s scripted, structured, presented, etc. Another thing to be considered is tact.

I don’t feel like it’s a new low in the sense that I expect him to have some a higher conscience or moral code than this, but it’s definitely a different kind of evil to what he does in the OT.

George Lucas seems to have written himself into a spot where there are children who have to be killed by this regime, but I feel like there’s a big difference in characterization between depicting a guy who leads troops into a bloodbath where children die, and depicting a guy who personally stabs children who trust him.

Would you feel the same way if George Lucas depicted Anakin as having killed small animals as a teenager? That’s also something I don’t think Darth Vader would have some moral problem with, but making him into the kind of guy who used to do that changes his characterization significantly.

Him killing kids, plus him killing the sand people, make Anakin seem like he was always just a bad egg. I think that’s what you like about it, but if the prequels are supposed to be about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, I think it makes it a lot less tragic.

It might be different if the scene was in a different context, but I also don’t think gradually leading into it more wouldn’t change it that much.

G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?

When is Leia whiny?

Maybe they just fell out of fashion

I don’t think anyone’s “afraid” to say it, nobody’s going to come and put you in jail for saying media that’s about and for men and their experiences is a good thing. Although I don’t think men are starved for male protagonists.

What do you mean by rubbing shoulders with unpleasant youtube grifters? Are you watching them and taking what they say seriously, or just failing to disagree with them on this one thing?

Honestly, it’s surprising to me that “Fandom Menace” grifters are still around. Disney Star Wars has been consistently pointless and not worth following for years now, nobody I know in real life is even watching it anymore. It’s also why I feel really surprised about the backlash to the Acolyte.

Not to shit on Star Wars too much. The reason we’re still talking about it, and the reason we’re still coming back here, is because it meant something to us once and we have a lot to say.

I don’t think any particular line bothers me as much as some of the dumb exchanges in this movie

QUI-GON: Your highness, with your permission we’re headed for a remote planet called Tatooine. It’s in a system far beyond the reach of the Trade Federation.
PANAKA: I do not agree with the Jedi on this one.
QUI-GON: You must trust my judgement.
End of scene.

This scene is so stupid and pointless and it grinds my gears so bad

Superweapon VII said:

Star Wars doesn’t have to be Cocomelon to still be for kids. It can still have some level of maturity while not being on the same level of maturity as media made for adults.

Vladius said:

I addressed that already. Obi Wan is saying that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader, but he’s not sending him to kill Vader, as that would be pointless. The word they use is confront. I already posted this somewhere else but there’s a quote from one of the Timothy Zahn books where Luke talks about this, he says that he assumed that when they told him to confront Vader that that meant he would have to kill him, but that was wrong and that wasn’t necessarily what they meant. Not that that is Disney canon or G canon, but it shows that before the prequels that was the normal interpretation.

Do you remember which book?

In the conversation they’re having right before this exchange, they’re disagreeing on whether or not Vader has any good left in him. I feel like the post-prequel interpretation makes more sense to me than Obi-Wan just wanting him to be prepared to kill Vader.

Why is sending Luke to kill Vader pointless? What’s the difference in sending him to “confront” Vader if he has to be willing to kill him, anyway?

This is really cool. If OP is still around, it would be cool to see this developed further.

The Original Clone Wars Were Way Different

You guys might find this video interesting

That’s very interesting. Thank you.

I don’t think they’d drop the ST so overtly, it would probably do the opposite of restoring faith in Disney Star Wars. It would be an embarrassing scandal and a major signal in a lack of faith in their own capabilities. They might sweep it under the rug, but does Disney even consider it worth sweeping under the rug? They’re making a Rey movie, after all.

I think what Disney Star Wars would need to become popular again would be a new generation, sub-franchise, series, idk these things are supposed to be called, with compelling new characters to be the new face of Star Wars for the next decade. I think that’s what they were trying to do with The Mandalorian, but it didn’t pan out and I don’t think the first season was designed with that in mind. I don’t think these characters are going to get a second chance.