SparkySywer

I mean, I see how TRoS could be going for the same goal as TLJ in Rey’s arc. But it kind of resets it to how it was at the end of TFA and does it worse.

If by the end of TLJ, she was now beyond caring about who her parents were… why would she give a damn that her grandfather is Palpatine? If she’s learned to move beyond her need for her parents, placing her identity with the Resistance, why would her grandparents have any meaning to her? Did she move past her parents but not her grandparents?

If her talking to the Jedi is the resolution of her arc, and how she finally gets past her toxic beliefs of self-worth, sure. Fine. But wasn’t she already at that point during the Battle of Crait? Didn’t you even say this?

In TFA, she’s obsessed with her parents, despite not even knowing who they are. She places her whole identity and sense of self-worth on them. In TLJ, as the middle part (lowest part) of the arc, she gets the worst possible news as it’s been put: The people who carried her entire identity and self-worth were just some asshole alcoholics.

In TRoS, we get that middle part again, she gets the worst possible news again. Except instead of it being Rey Nobody, now it’s Rey Palpatine. This is why people took Rey Palpatine as an undoing of TLJ. If it was just revealed that she was a Palpatine and she used what she learned from TLJ to overcome that or something, I actually think people wouldn’t believe it was a walk back on TLJ. But that’s not what happened- her arc is reset to where it was before TLJ.

Plus, I kind of feel like it’s just a carbon copy of Luke’s arc in RotJ. He’s learned that he has a little bit of abject evil in his blood, and now because of that connection he’s afraid he’ll turn to the dark side. But Luke’s arc is interesting because, while Luke has a little Vader in him, Vader has a little Luke in him. So he was able to complete his arc by upending the conflict by redeeming Vader. This is my #1 reason why, despite thinking RotJ is the weakest of the trilogy and lacking what ANH and ESB bad, it’s still definitely a great movie.

Rey’s arc has nothing like that. She overcomes her conflict by killing Palpatine. Hell, maybe not even. I don’t really think her questioning her identity and self-worth is ever really resolved, more like dropped. You mention her arc being resolved by talking to the Jedi… but I don’t see it. I don’t think there’s really anything more to that than a plot device on how she could defeat Palpatine. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn’t resolving Rey’s arc.

But, uh, yeah. Back to what I was saying, Rey’s arc in TRoS is kind of just Luke’s arc in RotJ but done worse. Because they focus way harder on “Oh no I have evil blood in me I’m gonna turn evil” in TRoS than anything you mention. Most of what you mention is in there, it’s not unfounded, but it’s not focused on nearly as much as that. So I’ve gotta say that’s probably her core arc in the movie.

I kind of have to agree with RogueLeader. If you’re getting this from TRoS, I’m glad for you. Really. But I think you’re thinking about this way harder than Abrams or Terrio ever did.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Your idea for TFA would still undermine TLJ’s idea of hope, because by TLJ it’d still be implied some other threat exists.

I saw an idea in some thread on this site about implying Starkiller Base was involved with bringing back Palpatine. I wasn’t a fan of their idea on how that worked, but it kills two birds with one stone: Replaces its original (dumb) functionality in TFA, and sets up Palpatine, all without killing the third bird by undermining TLJ.

Anakin Starkiller said:

My closest friend is my ex with a flair that says “I ❤️ my amazing boyfriend”. Pretty hard to sit thru, but I manage.

That sucks, man. You need a rebound girl. Doesn’t have to be anything serious, just something with someone else. Even something as meaningless as a one night stand. I’d set you up if you weren’t Canadian.

idir_hh said:

I saw this supposed inside leak on what happened with the Sequels and some of it rings…plausible?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/mo2wzv/what_happened_with_the_disney_sequel_trilogy_and/

Take it with crane of salt regarldless.

Edit: All the stuff about Lucasfilm seams plausible, When he starts getting in to TROS…not so much.

/r/StarWarsSpeculation is not the place for posting leaks. /r/StarWarsLeaks is better… but the mods actually verify the credibility of leaks. Any Star Wars leak that doesn’t go through that subreddit is untrue in my book, even though this one doesn’t seem particularly bad. Although like you said, there’s a few things that don’t really add up. Not just with TRoS, though. Another thing I don’t really believe is that JJ wanted to walk when George did… was JJ even hired yet?

The differences of the plot details given to JediPaxis and the plot of the final movie also seem like post-production editing, not different drafts of TRoS.

Peter Pan said:

EddieDean said:

Anything that makes that whole scene consensual is a massive value add as far as I’m concerned.

With the line in question it reads more like this:
-Leia is fixing the falcon and Han comes in
-Han tries to help, Leia says No
-han becomes pushy, Leia says No, No, No, No
KISS
-Leia says: “Alright Hotshot” by saying no I actually meant yes
-3PO enters the chat

I see your point, but it retroactively characterizes Leia’s “no”, and Harrison Ford’s acting makes them feel more like equals when it comes to the power dynamic going on. It’s a huge improvement in my eyes.

In theory I think redubbing Jar Jar as the everyman is the best option, but fanedits that have done it don’t pan out as well as I’d hope. Maybe I’m being too hasty, but a new approach like cutting Jar Jar out completely is something I’m interested in. But maybe since that guy doesn’t seem to be working on it anymore, it didn’t pan out as well as I thought.

She’s already made up her mind, that’s just when she starts to decide on a plan. You could keep some Jar Jar, though, and just cut him way down in the movie instead of out completely. Especially because that scene you’re talking about isn’t so bad.

It might work to make it a little more diluted

I’ve said this before, but there was an old fanedit of TPM in the works where they tried to remove Jar Jar. Just… completely gone. Whatever happened to it? Seemed promising, because trying to recontextualize him or make him work within the movie has fallen flat, in my opinion.

Unironically, cutting out Jar Jar would go a long way to making the Phantom Menace an actually, genuinely good movie. It’s not its only problem, but the other edits I think you’d have to do would be trivial, and have already been done in fanedits like Hal’s. The only exception being Watto kind of being super antisemitic, but I kind of think fixing that is well beyond the scope of modern fanediting.

The first of the two could also work given the last time we see the Master Codebreaker (or in this case the “”“Master Codebreaker”“”?) he seems to kind of just be an ordinary asshole.

Outside of fanediting, no clue. But that’s a common idea in fanedits of the ST.

1>3>2>4

I kinda like all four of them though, even Crystal Skull.

I agree that setting up Palpatine’s turn in TLJ would have been a bad idea. That’s why I kind of don’t think it’s a good idea to set it up in fanedits, it just undermines TLJ and barely improves TRoS.

But it’s not that it was “meant” to come out of nowhere or anything. Palpatine’s return not being set up well hurts TRoS pretty badly. Setting up Palpatine’s return in TLJ is a bad idea, having Palpatine return without a setup is a bad idea, therefore having Palpatine return at all is a bad idea. Although there are plenty of other reasons why Palpatine’s return was a bad idea.

Anakin Starkiller said:

You mean the Daleks? They aren’t robots.

Hehe alien peenids

Blackened Mantle is pretty good

Last night I had a dream that I ordered $1200’s worth of pizza (I didn’t realize that two medium pizzas added up to that much money) and when it was delivered, the driver had clearly eaten, like, half of the slices of pizza. I said I wasn’t paying for that and it was a huge argument and they got really nasty and personal about it. They started the nastiness but I ended up making them cry. I felt really bad about it.

I’m logging off for the night. It’s late. I’ll probably be online again tomorrow knowing myself.

I have changed my mind on making this comment, pretend you never saw this

Replace all of John Williams’s music with a low-pitched droning sound

TestingOutTheTest said:

Thoughts?

It’s certainly an interesting idea, but it might just end up being confusing. I might be wrong though, I suppose the only way to really know it to pull together a mock up.

Anakin Starkiller said:

EddieDean said:

I think TestingOutTheTest might be JJ Abrams.

Well he did say he obtained the original cuts of the OT through a fan source, so it’s totally possible he’s on OT. That said, I doubt he’d been a thread about re-editing his own movie.

Insert JJ Cut joke

There’s a few prequel tracks in TRoS’s soundtrack. The one that stood out most to me is this one which plays while Poe and Zorri are talking about leaving Kijimi. Stands out because it was the menu music of the Revenge of the Sith video game I played all the time as a kid.

If this counts.

act on instinct said:

NeverarGreat said:

No, Palpatine did not need to be brought back. Returning the Big Bad just to knock him down again is the easy answer to the difficult question of how to bring peace to a galaxy fractured by war. It implies that the only thing truly wrong with the attempts at peace was one dude who was always behind everything and if he were to die everything would be all unicorns and rainbows.

In the end, it isn’t individual people who are a threat to peace, not really. It is much more the systems that subvert democracy and the twisted incentives prioritizing armed conflict over negotiation. TLJ was on the right track with this necessary argument, despite how poorly it was implemented. Palpatine’s return, along with his magic fleet, throws this necessary perspective in the garbage.

I don’t want to prolong a debate at its end but after reading what everyone had to say for 5 pages this is the comment that resonates with me most. I really hoped the ST would at least try to tackle this concept. Lucas himself was intrigued by the idea and I think it really expands the lore from all sides where each generation faces a unique environment, giving a fairly full and rounded summary of the stages of war and peace. Though much like the reality it isn’t so easy to figure out vs destroying a boogeyman, which isn’t an invitation to have no big bads or anything, just not zombie hitler.

I think this is the third time I’ve mentioned this on OT.com, but different threads every time so it’s the first time I’m mentioning it in this thread.

I wonder if it would be a good idea to use the Japanese Dubs to Blackened Mantle a new conflict for the ST. The idea being that the Rebel Alliance was an alliance between two factions: Old Republic aristocrats, Senators, wealthy and powerful elites, who found themselves on the outside of Palpatine’s coup on one side, and a populist faction made up of Outer Rim and Mid Rim citizens who suffered the hardest under the Empire.

Logically that’s what the Alliance should have been formed from, these two factions obviously should have existed since 1977 and these two factions should have opposing interests once the Empire was gone: One side wants to restore the Republic, the other wants to create an entirely new system. Because the Empire didn’t come from nowhere, it was the ultimate conclusion of the flaws of the Republic, and it’s not like the Republic was that great anyway. Many people on the populist side might have suffered under the Republic just as badly as under the Empire.

Civil war finally breaks out, although I would put this a year or more after Luke disappears, so that he doesn’t look like an asshole by directly causing a major galactic war. The First Order comes from the first faction and the Resistance comes from the populist faction. The Empire vs Rebels imagery is now commentary on the Republic, its loyalists, and those who want to restore it, as well as good real world commentary that I don’t want to get into too much lest I start another argument.

Luke would probably be a mediating force before the civil war, but once war breaks out, it’s obvious that Luke would side with the Resistance. Leia and Han both did, for one, but he grew up a backwater farmboy. That’s why the Resistance wants him to return and the First Order wants him to not do that.

If this was a rewrite and not a fanedit, I’d have Mon Mothma be the leader of the First Order. But maybe Hux is her son or something. Or maybe making an OT hero into a downright villain is a bad idea. Or maybe who cares since Mon Mothma’s in like one scene in RotJ.

Snoke would probably have to be something more than just some guy, though, because that doesn’t work well with this conflict. Maybe his dark side something something helps the First Order do something something, but I don’t know what. I don’t like the idea of Palpatine being alive past RotJ in any way, and the conflict doesn’t have room for him manipulating anything, so I’d say Snoke shouldn’t be involved with Palpatine. But who knows.

Issue is I have no idea where to get the Japanese dubs of the ST, or if they’re even as good as the dubs of the PT. So this is firmly in what-if land. I also have no idea how this would be executed.

joshuabri said:

All of this relentless back and forth doesn’t get us anywhere. It is fine and encouraged to state your opinions, but we’ll rarely, if ever, argue someone to our side. Nothing anyone is saying is wrong, it’s just that different story elements speak to each of us differently based on our own experiences. We have to accept that the story elements that we value most may not be as important to someone else. There is no “true” interpretation of the story or characters, just what they speak to us and our lives. Probably the best we can say is that a better developed and written trilogy might have had fewer offending elements to the fandom in general. Getting off my horse now.

Yeah, something people keep forgetting is that these are fanediting threads, not opinion threads. If your unsolicited opinion has nothing to do with fanediting, don’t post it. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, don’t watch their fanedit. Take your arguments to the argument threads, because we have those.

Brewzter said:

https://vimeo.com/529594742

This is very well done!

They’re speaking in the third person because the person being addressed is not the person in question