SparkySywer

TestingOutTheTest said:

In TFA and TLJ, Rey focused heavily on her parents, they were the ones who conceived her, birthed her and abandoned her on the hell that is Jakku. She hoped there has to be some reason as to why her parents abandoned her, like being important in a way it would, for example, motivate her parents to abandon her, showing how they loved her. Of course, Rey comes to terms with the truth in TLJ and stops caring about her parents, but just because she stopped caring about them doesn’t indicate as to whether she cares about her grandparents or not.

You kind of have to understand how ridiculous that is, though. I mean, I said that in parody a few comments ago. Like, she learned a big important lesson about her family, but not her extended family!

That really does just feel like they’re resetting her arc to where it was in TLJ.

Rey is absolutely scared of her Palpatine heritage in TRoS, because, due to her lack of self-worth, she fears being rejected by everyone, she fears about what everyone else would think if they find out of her heritage, she fears that no one is going to give her validation if they find out her heritage. This is implied in some later scenes, including her following conversation with Finn (“Rey, I know you…” “People keep telling me they know me. I’m afraid no one does…”).

This is a good point, though.

JadedSkywalker said:

Rey is now the Last Jedi the same as Luke. Rey, Finn and Poe have to restore justice to the galaxy and restore the Republic. Rey needs to take on students and not repeat Luke and the prequel Jedi mistakes.

Maybe her order will be less dogmatic and accept a wider view of the force. She isn’t alone her family is Poe and Finn.

This is one of the biggest reasons why I’m not really interested in any Star Wars content set after TRoS. Content going forward is going to have to try their darnedest to distinguish Rey’s go at restoring the Jedi from Luke’s go at restoring the Jedi.

They can come up with tons of reasons why Rey’s attempt is going to be different from Luke’s attempt, but unless it flows naturally from the sequel trilogy and Rey’s arc (and respectively the Star Wars Trilogy and Luke’s arc), I don’t think I’ll be able to buy it. And I don’t think they’re going to be able to, when Rey in TRoS is so similar to Luke in RotJ.

As much as I love TLJ, this is why I also think Luke dying was a mistake. If Luke lived, it could’ve been a together thing, and Rey’s attempt would also be Luke’s attempt. That could’ve been pretty neat. But the New EU is kind of stuck with this arrangement. I suspect Luke dying wasn’t Rian’s idea, though.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Ed Slushie said:

Could Obi-Wan’s line to Yoda be changed from “when you taught me” to “when you found me?”

That sounds like an easier method than mentioning Qui-Gon. Especially since we don’t actually know which Jedi retrieved Obi-Wan as a kid. Reminds me of Plo-Koon and Ashoka.

I don’t know how meaningful it is for a 3 year old to be impatient. Maybe cutting the idea from the PT about Jedi needing to start their training so young too would be a good idea?

TLJ definitely uses something in the Univers font family, but I don’t think it’s the exact same one as the prequels.

Artan42 said:

SparkySywer said:

NeverarGreat said:

I can easily see amendments written which would destroy democracy, like making the Chancellors term in office, and his practical power…unlimited.

This comment has made me realize that “Amendment after amendment” might be saying that Palpatine is making amendments, not that George Lucas thinks amendments are like units of Constitution juice or something.

Still… what an incredibly awkward line. Don’t blame me for thinking “Amendment after amendment” meant “Amendment after amendment is in shreds” lol

Artan42 said:

SparkySywer said:

Peter Pan said:

Here’s a different take on the Bail’s apartment scene with dialogue from The Force Unleashed:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sPI80MXqw8pO1wm34C0mLx2jCck-EUk8/view?usp=sharing

It’s far from perfect, but there is potential I think.

“The constitution is in shreds! Amendment after amendment!”

Whoever wrote that line has no idea how government works. It always bothered me, and it’s why I’ve never liked that deleted scene.

A chancellor with unchecked power altering the constitution whenever he wants to stay in power forever? Yeah, no government has ever worked like that.

Can you truly call that a working government?

The Republic isn’t a working government. Corporations have seats as if they were systems.

TestingOutTheTest said:

It’s not that Rey cared about her grandparents, it’s that the reason her Palpatine heritage is such a big deal to her, personally, is because she is related to the Sith Lord who murdered trillions; on top of that, it’s part of the reason she exiles herself onto Ahch-To until Luke pointed out that she is still valuable and can still do the right thing regardless of her heritage.

But you yourself said that she had already overcome her need for her parents by TLJ? See, it’s right here:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Because of this, she finally overcomes her “need” for her parents, learning to move on from and stop caring for her parents entirely — hence why she seems happy and unaffected during the Battle of Crait; now, with no other option, with Luke having rejected her, with Kylo Ren being the bad guy, with Han Solo now dead, with her parents having thrown her away like garbage, she decides to attach herself to the Resistance and rely on them for validation.

---

…the reason she seems happy during Crait is because it means she has finally stopped caring about her parents themselves entirely.

If we’ve already come to this point, why is she all the sudden starting to care about her family again?

NeverarGreat said:

I can easily see amendments written which would destroy democracy, like making the Chancellors term in office, and his practical power…unlimited.

This comment has made me realize that “Amendment after amendment” might be saying that Palpatine is making amendments, not that George Lucas thinks amendments are like units of Constitution juice or something.

Still… what an incredibly awkward line. Don’t blame me for thinking “Amendment after amendment” meant “Amendment after amendment is in shreds” lol

Artan42 said:

SparkySywer said:

Peter Pan said:

Here’s a different take on the Bail’s apartment scene with dialogue from The Force Unleashed:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sPI80MXqw8pO1wm34C0mLx2jCck-EUk8/view?usp=sharing

It’s far from perfect, but there is potential I think.

“The constitution is in shreds! Amendment after amendment!”

Whoever wrote that line has no idea how government works. It always bothered me, and it’s why I’ve never liked that deleted scene.

A chancellor with unchecked power altering the constitution whenever he wants to stay in power forever? Yeah, no government has ever worked like that.

Can you truly call that a working government?

Peter Pan said:

Here’s a different take on the Bail’s apartment scene with dialogue from The Force Unleashed:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sPI80MXqw8pO1wm34C0mLx2jCck-EUk8/view?usp=sharing

It’s far from perfect, but there is potential I think.

“The constitution is in shreds! Amendment after amendment!”

Whoever wrote that line has no idea how government works. It always bothered me, and it’s why I’ve never liked that deleted scene.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The Force Awakens wasn’t NEARLY as jumbled as this movie though, so I find that hard to believe.

The Force Awakens didn’t get a complete reset 2 years before release date.

Brewzter said:

I just finished my own version if anyone is interested:

https://vimeo.com/535658696

I’d recommend putting some audio effects on it to make it sound less like a voiceover and more diegetic.

I mean, I see how TRoS could be going for the same goal as TLJ in Rey’s arc. But it kind of resets it to how it was at the end of TFA and does it worse.

If by the end of TLJ, she was now beyond caring about who her parents were… why would she give a damn that her grandfather is Palpatine? If she’s learned to move beyond her need for her parents, placing her identity with the Resistance, why would her grandparents have any meaning to her? Did she move past her parents but not her grandparents?

If her talking to the Jedi is the resolution of her arc, and how she finally gets past her toxic beliefs of self-worth, sure. Fine. But wasn’t she already at that point during the Battle of Crait? Didn’t you even say this?

In TFA, she’s obsessed with her parents, despite not even knowing who they are. She places her whole identity and sense of self-worth on them. In TLJ, as the middle part (lowest part) of the arc, she gets the worst possible news as it’s been put: The people who carried her entire identity and self-worth were just some asshole alcoholics.

In TRoS, we get that middle part again, she gets the worst possible news again. Except instead of it being Rey Nobody, now it’s Rey Palpatine. This is why people took Rey Palpatine as an undoing of TLJ. If it was just revealed that she was a Palpatine and she used what she learned from TLJ to overcome that or something, I actually think people wouldn’t believe it was a walk back on TLJ. But that’s not what happened- her arc is reset to where it was before TLJ.

Plus, I kind of feel like it’s just a carbon copy of Luke’s arc in RotJ. He’s learned that he has a little bit of abject evil in his blood, and now because of that connection he’s afraid he’ll turn to the dark side. But Luke’s arc is interesting because, while Luke has a little Vader in him, Vader has a little Luke in him. So he was able to complete his arc by upending the conflict by redeeming Vader. This is my #1 reason why, despite thinking RotJ is the weakest of the trilogy and lacking what ANH and ESB bad, it’s still definitely a great movie.

Rey’s arc has nothing like that. She overcomes her conflict by killing Palpatine. Hell, maybe not even. I don’t really think her questioning her identity and self-worth is ever really resolved, more like dropped. You mention her arc being resolved by talking to the Jedi… but I don’t see it. I don’t think there’s really anything more to that than a plot device on how she could defeat Palpatine. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn’t resolving Rey’s arc.

But, uh, yeah. Back to what I was saying, Rey’s arc in TRoS is kind of just Luke’s arc in RotJ but done worse. Because they focus way harder on “Oh no I have evil blood in me I’m gonna turn evil” in TRoS than anything you mention. Most of what you mention is in there, it’s not unfounded, but it’s not focused on nearly as much as that. So I’ve gotta say that’s probably her core arc in the movie.

I kind of have to agree with RogueLeader. If you’re getting this from TRoS, I’m glad for you. Really. But I think you’re thinking about this way harder than Abrams or Terrio ever did.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Your idea for TFA would still undermine TLJ’s idea of hope, because by TLJ it’d still be implied some other threat exists.

I saw an idea in some thread on this site about implying Starkiller Base was involved with bringing back Palpatine. I wasn’t a fan of their idea on how that worked, but it kills two birds with one stone: Replaces its original (dumb) functionality in TFA, and sets up Palpatine, all without killing the third bird by undermining TLJ.

Anakin Starkiller said:

My closest friend is my ex with a flair that says “I ❤️ my amazing boyfriend”. Pretty hard to sit thru, but I manage.

That sucks, man. You need a rebound girl. Doesn’t have to be anything serious, just something with someone else. Even something as meaningless as a one night stand. I’d set you up if you weren’t Canadian.

idir_hh said:

I saw this supposed inside leak on what happened with the Sequels and some of it rings…plausible?
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/mo2wzv/what_happened_with_the_disney_sequel_trilogy_and/

Take it with crane of salt regarldless.

Edit: All the stuff about Lucasfilm seams plausible, When he starts getting in to TROS…not so much.

/r/StarWarsSpeculation is not the place for posting leaks. /r/StarWarsLeaks is better… but the mods actually verify the credibility of leaks. Any Star Wars leak that doesn’t go through that subreddit is untrue in my book, even though this one doesn’t seem particularly bad. Although like you said, there’s a few things that don’t really add up. Not just with TRoS, though. Another thing I don’t really believe is that JJ wanted to walk when George did… was JJ even hired yet?

The differences of the plot details given to JediPaxis and the plot of the final movie also seem like post-production editing, not different drafts of TRoS.

Peter Pan said:

EddieDean said:

Anything that makes that whole scene consensual is a massive value add as far as I’m concerned.

With the line in question it reads more like this:
-Leia is fixing the falcon and Han comes in
-Han tries to help, Leia says No
-han becomes pushy, Leia says No, No, No, No
KISS
-Leia says: “Alright Hotshot” by saying no I actually meant yes
-3PO enters the chat

I see your point, but it retroactively characterizes Leia’s “no”, and Harrison Ford’s acting makes them feel more like equals when it comes to the power dynamic going on. It’s a huge improvement in my eyes.

In theory I think redubbing Jar Jar as the everyman is the best option, but fanedits that have done it don’t pan out as well as I’d hope. Maybe I’m being too hasty, but a new approach like cutting Jar Jar out completely is something I’m interested in. But maybe since that guy doesn’t seem to be working on it anymore, it didn’t pan out as well as I thought.

She’s already made up her mind, that’s just when she starts to decide on a plan. You could keep some Jar Jar, though, and just cut him way down in the movie instead of out completely. Especially because that scene you’re talking about isn’t so bad.

It might work to make it a little more diluted

I’ve said this before, but there was an old fanedit of TPM in the works where they tried to remove Jar Jar. Just… completely gone. Whatever happened to it? Seemed promising, because trying to recontextualize him or make him work within the movie has fallen flat, in my opinion.

Unironically, cutting out Jar Jar would go a long way to making the Phantom Menace an actually, genuinely good movie. It’s not its only problem, but the other edits I think you’d have to do would be trivial, and have already been done in fanedits like Hal’s. The only exception being Watto kind of being super antisemitic, but I kind of think fixing that is well beyond the scope of modern fanediting.

The first of the two could also work given the last time we see the Master Codebreaker (or in this case the “”“Master Codebreaker”“”?) he seems to kind of just be an ordinary asshole.

Outside of fanediting, no clue. But that’s a common idea in fanedits of the ST.

1>3>2>4

I kinda like all four of them though, even Crystal Skull.

I agree that setting up Palpatine’s turn in TLJ would have been a bad idea. That’s why I kind of don’t think it’s a good idea to set it up in fanedits, it just undermines TLJ and barely improves TRoS.

But it’s not that it was “meant” to come out of nowhere or anything. Palpatine’s return not being set up well hurts TRoS pretty badly. Setting up Palpatine’s return in TLJ is a bad idea, having Palpatine return without a setup is a bad idea, therefore having Palpatine return at all is a bad idea. Although there are plenty of other reasons why Palpatine’s return was a bad idea.

Anakin Starkiller said:

You mean the Daleks? They aren’t robots.

Hehe alien peenids

Blackened Mantle is pretty good

Last night I had a dream that I ordered $1200’s worth of pizza (I didn’t realize that two medium pizzas added up to that much money) and when it was delivered, the driver had clearly eaten, like, half of the slices of pizza. I said I wasn’t paying for that and it was a huge argument and they got really nasty and personal about it. They started the nastiness but I ended up making them cry. I felt really bad about it.

I’m logging off for the night. It’s late. I’ll probably be online again tomorrow knowing myself.