Then it’s probably just DNR, which would have been introduced in 2004. It would be worth checking the new Disney versions from 2019 to see if it’s in there (it shouldn’t be if it’s DNR, or should present itself differently since it’s a new scan). I’d do it but I no longer have Disney+ and I don’t have those Blu Rays.
It might be DNR from 2004. Did you rip a Blu Ray to get this or did you do something like a web rip? Are you using the 2011 versions or the new Disney ones from 2019?
I wondered at the time why this moment bugged me, and it’s because Holdo was giving off Dolores Umbridge vibes.
It’s funny that you say that, when I saw The Last Jedi for the first time in 2017, my friend leaned over during this scene and said “This is Umbridge”. I wonder if that made Holdo easier to swallow for me.
I don’t think you have to invoke Hanlon’s razor for the ST. For example, Luke is now a failure whose accomplishments are undone and who unleashes evil onto the galaxy, whose only redemption is that the fake image people have of him might eventually lead to other people cleaning up his mess. I don’t think it’s malicious, because I and a lot of other people thought it was a compelling story and gave Luke some of his best character moments in the saga, but at the same time, he didn’t accidentally stumble into subverting Luke’s entire purpose in the story, and couldn’t have naively thought it would be received well by everybody.
IMO, it’s a symptom of the ST being glorified fanfiction. Rian Johnson is a fan who wrote what he thought was a good story with little input from the original creator of the series, and TLJ would probably fit better if it was a spinoff or AU than as the canonical ending of Luke Skywalker’s story.
Nope actually that line is awesome. So is the kill the past one from Kylo Ren.
I’m not a fan of anything Holdo says in this scene
Blazing hot take I know
I think it’s hardly an insult to say Star Wars dialog sounds like it was written by George Lucas, even if his dialog wasn’t great.
If it counts, it bugs me that when BB8 is beeping right before Poe says “Happy beeps”, it’s supposed to be “I have a bad feeling about this”.
Hire this individual PRONTO
Would it have been though?
He needs to confront Vader to face his fear and resist the dark side in a final spiritual confrontation. It’s a continuation of the events of Empire Strikes Back. He failed in the cave specifically because he brought his weapons with him and he was full of fear. He failed at fighting Vader both because he was unprepared physically, but also spiritually. Now that he has his training, he’s prepared, so he needs to do it. As Yoda tells him, it’s his final trial to become a Jedi. He has to meet Vader again face-to-face, and gain the victory by resisting temptation. That includes the temptation to join Vader because he’s his father.
I did not consider this. Thank you for the interesting read!
I agree Skybatman.
I’m hopeful if they keep damaging the brand over and over again like they are, eventually it will get to the point they have to sell it because there’s no return anymore. So long as Disney’s name is attached to it, no ones showing up. This would be the absolute best outcome for the brand.
The fact they keep doubling down on terrible ideas, tells me they are gonna do just that.
Star Wars makes too much money from merchandising for it to ever not be profitable. If they ever wanted to give up on making Star Wars they’ll probably just sit on the IP like dragons.
G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?
Mostly the latter. The former heavily depends on execution, but it’s not a good choice in the film as it’s scripted, structured, presented, etc. Another thing to be considered is tact.
I don’t feel like it’s a new low in the sense that I expect him to have some a higher conscience or moral code than this, but it’s definitely a different kind of evil to what he does in the OT.
George Lucas seems to have written himself into a spot where there are children who have to be killed by this regime, but I feel like there’s a big difference in characterization between depicting a guy who leads troops into a bloodbath where children die, and depicting a guy who personally stabs children who trust him.
Would you feel the same way if George Lucas depicted Anakin as having killed small animals as a teenager? That’s also something I don’t think Darth Vader would have some moral problem with, but making him into the kind of guy who used to do that changes his characterization significantly.
Him killing kids, plus him killing the sand people, make Anakin seem like he was always just a bad egg. I think that’s what you like about it, but if the prequels are supposed to be about the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, I think it makes it a lot less tragic.
It might be different if the scene was in a different context, but I also don’t think gradually leading into it more wouldn’t change it that much.
G&G Fan, is your opinion that Vader killing the younglings is a good storytelling choice or that it just isn’t a new low for him?
When is Leia whiny?
Maybe they just fell out of fashion
I don’t think anyone’s “afraid” to say it, nobody’s going to come and put you in jail for saying media that’s about and for men and their experiences is a good thing. Although I don’t think men are starved for male protagonists.
What do you mean by rubbing shoulders with unpleasant youtube grifters? Are you watching them and taking what they say seriously, or just failing to disagree with them on this one thing?
Honestly, it’s surprising to me that “Fandom Menace” grifters are still around. Disney Star Wars has been consistently pointless and not worth following for years now, nobody I know in real life is even watching it anymore. It’s also why I feel really surprised about the backlash to the Acolyte.
Not to shit on Star Wars too much. The reason we’re still talking about it, and the reason we’re still coming back here, is because it meant something to us once and we have a lot to say.
I don’t think any particular line bothers me as much as some of the dumb exchanges in this movie
QUI-GON: Your highness, with your permission we’re headed for a remote planet called Tatooine. It’s in a system far beyond the reach of the Trade Federation.
PANAKA: I do not agree with the Jedi on this one.
QUI-GON: You must trust my judgement.
End of scene.
This scene is so stupid and pointless and it grinds my gears so bad
Star Wars doesn’t have to be Cocomelon to still be for kids. It can still have some level of maturity while not being on the same level of maturity as media made for adults.
I addressed that already. Obi Wan is saying that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader, but he’s not sending him to kill Vader, as that would be pointless. The word they use is confront. I already posted this somewhere else but there’s a quote from one of the Timothy Zahn books where Luke talks about this, he says that he assumed that when they told him to confront Vader that that meant he would have to kill him, but that was wrong and that wasn’t necessarily what they meant. Not that that is Disney canon or G canon, but it shows that before the prequels that was the normal interpretation.
Do you remember which book?
In the conversation they’re having right before this exchange, they’re disagreeing on whether or not Vader has any good left in him. I feel like the post-prequel interpretation makes more sense to me than Obi-Wan just wanting him to be prepared to kill Vader.
Why is sending Luke to kill Vader pointless? What’s the difference in sending him to “confront” Vader if he has to be willing to kill him, anyway?
This is really cool. If OP is still around, it would be cool to see this developed further.
The Original Clone Wars Were Way Different
You guys might find this video interesting
That’s very interesting. Thank you.
I don’t think they’d drop the ST so overtly, it would probably do the opposite of restoring faith in Disney Star Wars. It would be an embarrassing scandal and a major signal in a lack of faith in their own capabilities. They might sweep it under the rug, but does Disney even consider it worth sweeping under the rug? They’re making a Rey movie, after all.
I think what Disney Star Wars would need to become popular again would be a new generation, sub-franchise, series, idk these things are supposed to be called, with compelling new characters to be the new face of Star Wars for the next decade. I think that’s what they were trying to do with The Mandalorian, but it didn’t pan out and I don’t think the first season was designed with that in mind. I don’t think these characters are going to get a second chance.
What parallels do you see with the Wizard of Oz?
It’s my personal opinion, but I don’t feel like we need to see Anakin or Padme get brutalized for me to sympathize with them. Slavery is wrong in and of itself. Even if their master treats them well, they still own them. As a slave, Anakin would never fulfill his potential or make a life of his own, he’d simply be Watto’s property.
Similarly, I don’t feel like I have to see mass murder for me to think that the Trade Federation invading and occupying a sovereign planet is wrong, either, or that Padme’s situation of having to deal with her planet taken by force isn’t dire without seeing it. There’s a couple scenes where they say the Trade Federation is trying to make the people of Naboo suffer to coerce her into making the invasion legal, and maybe it would have helped to show and not tell, but we do still see some of the effects of the occupation, so it’s not like they don’t show it at all.
I also sort of like how young they made kid Anakin. There are some scenes where I feel like it would do the movie well if he acted more mature. But I like kid Anakin’s innocence, and, I’m not sure how to articulate it, but this feeling of Anakin’s life being a blank canvas that I’m not sure would be there if his age was bumped up to being a teenager or older like a lot of people suggest, where he’s already well on his way to being a grown man. Or maybe this is all nostalgia, though. When I was a kid I loved kid Anakin.
I agree though that Obi-Wan’s kind of lame. The older drafts of the movie where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are combined into the same character sound really interesting, and I wish something like that was preserved. Either that, or Obi-Wan was the proactive character and Qui-Gon was another apprentice of his. It is what it is, though
Also, agreed about the laughable idea of a corporation or the mass media having a “leftist agenda.” A corporation having a “leftist agenda” would mean that it’s not a corporation anymore.
This is just a semantic argument, though, right? You know what he’s talking about but you choose not to engage with it because you disapprove of his word choice.
Leftists will personally choose to define leftism to include anti-corporatism despite knowing that it’s not the common parlance, and then act like the average person is just an idiot for using the meaning of the word that’s naturally evolved through real-life political contexts and dismiss what they’re saying out of hand.
Imagine thinking a corporation has a leftist agenda. lawl. Just goes to show how obscenely skewed to the right the Overton window in America is.
In the year of our lord 2024 it comes off to me as willful ignorance not to notice that media corporations, and most large corporations in general for that matter, are overtly aligning themselves with social movements that certainly can not be called right-wing. Especially when the director of this show is overtly saying that their works include activism.
Maybe this is all a desperate attempt to market their show, but wouldn’t that make treating Anjohan like he’s done something really awful with what he’s said a little silly?
Dog whistles about “directors hating men” and the whole “leftist agenda” are disingenuous at best and downright dangerous at worst.
Anybody who is still making the points about “woke” stuff killing brands is genuinely dangerous to people’s safety.
I’m thinking, all right. Thinking about the safety of my friends.
Despite claiming to hate Disney, and boycotting them, you’ve still managed to become convinced that you must defend this product of theirs as a matter of people’s safety. If you’re truly convinced of that, some stranger on the internet like me is not capable of changing your mind, but do you at least recognize the irony in that?
Remember, what you’re claiming Anjohan did which was dangerous is claiming that the show directed by a woman who said “Every single piece of work that I have ever created has a piece of activism in it,” is going to have a political agenda.
Does anyone here even actually have faith in the Rey show, anyway? Is literally anyone in this thread even going to watch it?
For the record, I would’ve been interested in the first Star Wars media directed by a woman. I think a woman would’ve created something substantially different from male-created Star Wars media, but I don’t have any interest in anything that connects to The Rise of Skywalker. Maybe I’ll check out the second piece of Star Wars media directed by a woman.
Why put The Phantom Menace so low?
