SomethingStarWarsRelated

Darth Venal said:

 

It's not just change for change sake, it's change to make the story make more sense.

 

That part of the story makes perfect sense. Jedi has many issues, but a slightly exposition-heavy scene isn't one of them. In 26 years I never heard a single complaint about the Dagobah scenes.

Anyway, I thought we were agreeing to disagree :-)

 It's not that it doesn't work the way it is in the film now. BUT if the restructuing of scenes does indeed happen (Luke on dagobah first)...then the film seems to slow way down before anything interesting happens...I tried it along time ago and it felt really slow.

Preach it, Bingowings!  ;)

As you can tell, I'm all for the change...although I'm still not sure Ben's hut is doable...I *do* think being outside in the tatooine night skies *do* work.

Wow thanks again for the feedback, guys!

Monroville said:

Some good work there, SSWR!

I like how you got Yoda to do the coughing.  As a suggestion, could you make an alternate edit?

Personally, I could see the beginning with Vader removed entirely and just start on Dagobah.  In fact, I would not show the X-wing or R2 and just show Luke (recoloring his EMPIRE outfit to black) running through the forest and CGI Yoda off his back (since he would be back in the hut, with Luke doing his final training on his own) and maybe his green lightsabre on (or it could be kept off to save it for the barge fight reveal).  I would never show Luke's face, so when he reveals himself before Jabba, it is the first time we see him completely.

What kind of programs do you use for your editing?

 Well, I like the sound of that too...If I tried that it would be even more rough...I can't erase Yoda very well with what I use (adobe premiere and photoshop elements)...I don't know...I might attempt something like this eventually...

Bingowings said:

There's a lot to love about SSWR's last lesson mockup.

To those who think it spoils the reveal at Jabba's Palace as I said before the reveal is already broken in the theatrical cut where the mysterious powerful looking Jedi falls down the first trapdoor.

To build a more interesting last lesson it may be fun to mirror the very first lesson.

Remember Luke deflecting remote blasts with his sabre?

If Vader can deflect Han's bolts with the Force alone it would prove that Luke has stepped up a notch if he learned to do it too (totally useless against the power of Palpatine's Force Lightning but he did say they were feeble skills).

Here's how I see it.

Sinister music (something like The Magic Tree from ESB).

A mysterious hooded figure approaches Yoda's house.

A couple of remotes activate and he effortlessly deflects their blasts against them using only the Force (no saber yet).

Is Yoda safe? Who is this sinister chap?

He lifts his hood to reveal Luke Skywalker Jedi Knight.

Yoda sitting on a log congratulates him and then coughs, Luke looks concerned.

Then the scene inside.

That way you can start the film (from Luke's end) on Dagobah and still have the mysterious intro, a final lesson that mirrors the first and sets up a scene at the end.

Is it doable?

"I'm just making this up as I go along"

 I agree about the 'ruining Luke's entrance' thing. Although I have a slightly different view of this: I've never really thought Luke looked like a 'bad ass' in this movie...yeah kind of when he enters Jabbas palace...but the rest of the movie? nah...yeah, he is more wise than ESB...but to me he's still learning quite a bit...which is great! we can still relate with him becuase we are still on this journey with him. does that make sense? so to me losing that entrance at jabbas doesn't really bother me....but again that's *my* line of thought.

And Bingo, I like your thought on this scene too...I'm not sure how i feel about the remotes...i like the fact that on dagobah it's all organic lifeforms...no technology anywhere (other than what Luke brought...which maybe you could argue he brought the remotes...). But I like the idea of mirroring the first and last training scene...very cool...

Thanks again! :D

Darth Solo said:

What, no matant trees though?

 Ha! I think they are waaaay off in the background... :D

Darth Venal said:

doubleofive:

 

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Well here's that 'Luke training on Dagobah' idea we were talking about the other day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFBmHpcX4eA
This is how it would fit in with the fan-o-matic edit. Needs some more tweaking...ideas? Is this scene too early to show Lukes new saber?

You know what? That's pretty neat! I think it might work for some editor, definitely for the Fan-O-Matic. Nice reuse of the turn, he even looks concerned for the coughing (which I found both clever and hilarious). Great job man!

Obviously that's a crude edit but you can definitely see how it works. I approve. A bit of awkward rotoscoping on Luke's turn, maybe a long shot of new footage for him training in the swamp, and I really think that could work.

Well done.

 Thanks guys! Yeah, you'll notice all of my stuff is awkard and crude and will need alot of messaging...but it gets the idea across.

doubleofive said:

"Hey Adywan, what do you think of this idea?"

*SILENCE*

"Hey Ady, you going to do that?"

*SILENCE*

"That pit looks like its underwater."

*RANDOM PICTURE*

You crack me up man.

 Hee hee! so true!  :D

Well here's that 'Luke training on Dagobah' idea we were talking about the other day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFBmHpcX4eA

This is how it would fit in with the fan-o-matic edit. Needs some more tweaking...ideas? Is this scene too early to show Lukes new saber?

Adywan, have you considered the shot of the falcon taking off from the rebel base on Hoth?

I was watching that scene the other day and noticed that *before* takeoff the falcon is parked facing screen right...but once it takes off it apparently has turned 180 degrees (like it does from docking bay 94 in ANH) and started going towards screen left. Have you considered making or extending the shot of the falcon actually turning around (with your new falcon model)?

And on another note: just wondering if you've experimented with the new camera yet? Will any new footage you film match up with the original footage? Just wondering... :D

Talk at you guys later! Gotta go! :D

vaderios said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

 Well, there could be *some* shots that could have set extensions made...instead of cropping...but I know you know this, Angel. ;)

Yes i do! :D

-Angel

 I love the sand being disturbed underneath the sail barge!

What do you guys think about having the sand being disturbed the whole time...to kind of achieve a hovering effect? or is that too much?

Darth Venal said:

I agree, SSWR (sorry, your name is so long!). Introducing Luke in such a mundane way is going to undermine the pacing and structure of the movie, and totally ruin what is a pretty decent entrance at Jabba's Palace.

And usually when movie is edited about, you can see it a mile away.

 lol I know I know my name is way too long...I regreted it the moment I made my first post! :D

*Hopefully* we can find a way to make this resctructuring work to where it seems like it was meant to be this way...and if making a new entrance for Luke on Dagobah doesn't work...well...I'll probably be fine with the original way...even though it's certainly flawed! :D

vaderios said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Very nice, Angel....I wondered if you might come back with an extended shot! ;)

I think that's gonna have to happen alot more in ROTJ:R. Some shots are just plain ugly from a composition stand point...especially when compared to ESB. And Adywan is gonna be using the HD version right? So he won't be able to crop any of the images...is that correct?

Thanks matey.

Well i suppose and want a 720p ROTJ, that supports cropping.

Any new Clips there SWWR? :D:D

 

-Angel

 Last night I got inspired and I started working on the Luke training on Dagobah at the beginning of ROTJ idea. I'll post whatever I come up with...who knows if it will work. I *am* thinking that something like this is needed *if* we start Luke with on Dagobah. It seems a little odd starting with Luke  and Yoda inside sitting around...hmmm....not sure yet. We need to show Luke off a little more...since he *is* a main character he needs a decent entrance to the film (if we're not going with Luke entering Jabbas palace).

Well, that's why I asked...I wasn't sure...

He didn't use the HD version for ANH:R...correct? Except for a few select shots which he did indeed crop...right? (Example: Wedge flying around from ROTJ)

I just thought that if he'll be using the HD version for the *entire* film and then cropped some of those HD shots it would be noticable...but I could be wrong...I don't know enough about this stuff. :D

Edited: Thanks for the info guys! Good to know he can crop!

Very nice, Angel....I wondered if you might come back with an extended shot! ;)

I think that's gonna have to happen alot more in ROTJ:R. Some shots are just plain ugly from a composition stand point...especially when compared to ESB. And Adywan is gonna be using the HD version right? So he won't be able to crop any of the images...is that correct?

Darth Venal said:

 

Yes, given that Leia can't really know what she's recalling, "just feelings" as she says, it's vague. Either way, we know she didn't know her mother. I wouldn't change any music to prequel music unless the piece I was replacing was particularly unsuccessful as it stands. I hate homogenising everything into one identical lump. Somewhere in the 12 years since the Special Editions people have started to want that, whereas I prefer each movie to have its own aesthetic, its own identity. So what if Imperial Shuttles never appeared before Jedi and then they're everywhere. We didn't see A wings or B wings, Mon Calamari and their cruisers, and any number of other designs before they featured, but so what? Seeing new designs actually used to be something that appealed about these movies.

 Agreed. :D

I missed the picture! :(

Darth Venal, you gonna post it again?

Ripplin said:

Nice mock-up, but I just don't get why all these people look like they're made of metal inside, vaderios. ;) Does burnt flesh look like molten lava? Heh.

 I believe he is mimicing the look of Anakins saber going through the seperatists bodies in ROTS. It wouldn't last for very long on screen.

Bingowings said:

While folding my smalls, I started thinking about the Wicket scene (which is redundant and largely removed in SSWR's Video mockup).

I visualised replacing Wicket with some deer like creature which Leia could befriend instead.

It sniffs the air and runs.

The scouts attack Leia, she shoots one and out from the forest arrows shoot the other.

We don't know what happens to her next until we see her in the Ewok village.

Possibly impossible to do but it would have maintained the suspence because Leia would be in the power of unseen warriors who can silently kill Imperials and were watching her being both respectful to forest creatures but also fighting their enemies.

This would lead to the surprise that these warriors are small bear like creatures.

 Hmmm...i really like that idea....

I removed part of the wicket scene thinking that perhaps we could then use the footage of Liea shooting at empirials for the final forest battle....

Wow thanks for the positive feedback guys!

Monroville said:

Really good job there - LOVE the added imperial helmets scene and 3PO line about them being confused as imperials right before the torches come out (though you could play with how 3P0 reacts to what the Ewoks are doing as they carry him to their tree home - would he say "How splendid!" or would he be scared and worried and say "Where are you taking me?!" or something along that line?  That could keep the tension up a little.)

Also, watching your clip brought up a problem I had with JEDI in the original: if 3PO is considered a god, godling or messenger of the gods, why would the chief just ignore him until Luke made him float?  And others have brought up that the Empire has floating bikes as well as a Death Star floating above them.  So another suggestion:

- rather than have the chief ignore 3PO (or in other words, ignoring their god), have 3PO repeat to Luke that he CAN'T act as a god and refuses to cooperate.  That is when Luke not only lifts 3PO up, but either has him glow along the lines of how the Excalibur sword had the greenish glow in the movie EXCALIBUR - nothing too elaborate or goofy, but something to add to the effect.  That or his eyes shoot out beams of light - something to add to the mere floating to set 3P0 apart from the other technology that has surrounded the Ewoks (in fact, when he first sits up when they fall out of the trap, maybe his eyes light up then and 3PO readjusts them to normal - it is when they are shooting beams of light out that the Ewoks react to as well as his overall appearance) . 

Maybe this is where 3PO's lines of Ewok where the last part sounds like he says "..and you'll be sorry!" is played, but louder, more boomier.  3PO wouldn't be in control of his voice, as Luke is also making him say (in Ewok) the lines to release them or they will be sorry, thus overriding 3PO's programming and his refusal.

 First of all: Thanks for the detailed response! :D

The "how splended" line was just kind of a throw away line...I could take it or leave it...but believe it or not this line is used in the radio drama around the same time of events. In the radio drama 3PO starts commenting on how cool these treetop houses are and whatnot.

I agree with you and Bingowings on the 3PO floating around bit. I think having R2 casting some sort of hologram in front of 3PO could really work well...I almost did a crude mockup in the video...but I got lazy! :P   I'm realzing Adywan could be really overwhelmed with all of these changes...even *I* was with putting my crude video together...

Bingowings said:

Great stuff SSWR (nice to see my wee Ewok god turn up) I shall have a look at making a larger scale variation for the way you have used it (the one I designed was meant to be like an indoor shrine version rather than an outdoor totem). I will try and scale the idea up (more Wickerman than Greenman).

The dialogue from the radio version works very well indeed, it would be nice if we could remove the comical lilt in the incidental music, what comedy there is doesn't need to be enhanced with music and it removes any feeling of threat (the scene should be both worrying in a general view but amusing in relation to their reaction to Threepio). The Wizard Of Oz inspired chanting could be tinkered with to make it sound a little bit more sophisticated (distorted Tibetan chanting springs to mind).

I don't mind them disobeying Threepio, it would make sense that they should test him.

I would like to see some attempt to get Artoo to project frightening images over Threepio, it still seems odd that they are scared of him floating when they have seen things like Speeder Bikes and Metal moons.

Luke could just call out to Artoo and he improvises.

The Ewoks really need work done on their eyes too but it really is amazing work.

Pity we can't fix Harrison's gurning (can we?).

 Thank you very much, Bingo! And thanks for the image...yeah, I almost sent you a PM to see if you would make me a slightly different image...but it works for this video...

Which piece of music are you referring to? The piece when they are trapped in the...trap? If so, I see your point.

Again, I think the R2 hologram is a great idea...what do you think he should project in front of 3PO? If you'll send me an image...I just might make another video!  ;)

vaderios said:

I see lord of the rings here or a big opportunity to do a breath taking approach to the ewok village?

 

-Angel

 I think that might work...it might help sell the strength of these little guys...plus ROTJ feels small in many ways...that would help open up the film to feel more epic.

Angel, those pics of 3PO in Jabbas palace are stunning! It's feels more like ESB as far as the cinematography goes...could this be achievable in ROTJ:R? I sure hope so...

Lastest fan-o-matic vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UceOg1C42zU&feature=channel_page

Angel, once again I love the new mockups!

The backlight in Jabbas palace adds some great mood and depth.

The no underpants is fun...I knew someone would attempt this at some point!

And the new sky and sand at the sarlac pit helps tremendously!

Keep'em coming!

How's that new opening scene for ROTJ coming? Will it be a video? or only mockups?

vaderios said:

You cant have new framing without cropping...

 

-Angel

 Well, there could be *some* shots that could have set extensions made...instead of cropping...but I know you know this, Angel. ;) Love what you're doing to the sail barge scene! :D

On the subject of the cimematography of ROTJ:

I had heard that they used some sort of proto type cameras for filming ROTJ...does anyone know if this is true? Becuase it sure looks that way! I'm not talking about framing but the actual quality of the image...there doesn't seem to be detail where there should be...the colors are off (of course there were some mishaps with the DVD release)...and some images just look too soft! I don't know enough about this stuff so maybe someone can educate me...?

Thanks for the positive feedback guys!

Bingowings said:

Blame the droid.

I love it, perhaps it would be better if we didn't see wicket until a bit letter so it looks as if Leia is being threatened by some strange hairy thing with a spear for a few seconds.

When we cut back we could see he is a lovely little cub and then head on a stick (we have to do head on a stick).

Since adding another image my post a bit further up the page looks even more of a shambles (yay).

 Yeah, I've looked at that scene a million times and it was hard to decide on something. Show just wicket's feet? Show him poking Liea? I couldn't figure out for sure what works best. But the way I have it now with the new Ewok village entrance...it felt odd *not* showing him and then coming back with a close up of his face entering the ewok village. Did that make sense? lol

And yeah I'm gonna try and bring in some of your ideas to my version, Bingo.  :)

vaderios said:

Ho boy! Finally it feels different! I wasnt expecting to see 3po there :D

Becomes like ESB !

Speechless SWWR :D

Give us more!

 

-Angel

 That's high praise, Angel! Thank you very much! More is coming....I think tomorrow...

ChainsawAsh said:

I'm feeling more and more like my future ROTJ edit will be little more than a full-scale refinement of your ideas in these 'Fan-O-Matic' clips.  Great work - that whole sequence felt more Star Wars-y to me than it ever has in the past!

 Wow thanks! Yeah, use what you want...that's what it's there for! :D

Avatar said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Two videos in one day!

Here's my continued work on ROTJ: Fan-O-Matic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGnybS4IKQ

 nice work although something i just noticed is the rebel that said "yes sir" and "move out" sounded bad like he wasn't even trying and that kind of takes me out of it

also the vader i noticed the dialog seems to be a reharsh of waht the emperor said during his arrival.

i would prefer if the dialog just ended like this:

(after vader tells papatine that his son is with the rebels)

strange that i have not, i wonder if your feelings on this matter are clear.

they are clear my master

then you must go to the moon and wait for him

(switch to vader) his compasssion for you will be his undoing

as you wish

end

 Well, that's my voice...and again it's a temp voice track...IF I were to do a full blown edit, I would change the voice. Don't forget though, that there alot of bad dialoge delieveries in these movies! ;)

Hmmm...I kind of like that idea for Palps...

Thanks again guys!

Two videos in one day!

Here's my continued work on ROTJ: Fan-O-Matic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGnybS4IKQ

Thanks, Chronus! lol  I'm not even sure if *I* want Fett to be gone!  :P

And that GIF is sweet...I think it's a must for ROTJ:R...visually it's great and it gives Vader something "bad ass" to do.  :P

Bingowings said:

Looks like Jay still has a few adjustments to make.

I still think totally removing Boba Fett will be a step too far but I concede that giving him something to do may be too much hard work (but I hope someone pulls it off).

 I hear ya, Bingo. I can't decide either way actually. Whatever Ady decides to go with...well...my guess is I'll be happy. He hasn't let me down yet! :D

New video petition thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqH-lRmz9Fc&feature=player_embedded

All in fun! :D

Adding leaves flapping and flying around as speederbikes pass by is a great idea!