SilverWook

Tantive3+1 said:

What I want to see from this is Vader being voiced by an Orson Welles sound alike.

So, Maurice LaMarche then? 😉

Yippee-Ki-Yay, Mother Nerf Herder! 😛

Episode IX I think I’m a clone now…

The original McQuarrie Star Wars portfolio was about the first SW thing I ever got as a kid. (Not like there were any action figures out in 1977.) I fell in love with those designs almost more than the final ones. I flipped when I saw them do the stormtrooper with lightsaber scene.

Tone down the melodramatics please.

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

Kathleen Kennedy track record:

TFA - successful

TLJ - worst audience rating of all SW movies
R1 - basically fired the director
Solo - fired the directors and seems like a complete write-off
Ep. 9 - fired the director

Even Rick McCallum is shaking his head right now.

TLJ is close to the billion dollar mark. (JEDIT:Crossed 1B as of today.) Disney is no doubt crying in their exact replica of Scrooge McDuck’s money bin.

I’m going to reserve judgement on Han Solo until I see a trailer at least. Lots of movies have troubled productions, it’s the nature of the business.

Rick McCallum probably has better things to do, like screening his calls in case George has some more prequel revisions he thought of this morning. 😉

Mielr said:

SilverWook said:

https://geektyrant.com/news/star-wars-fans-in-1980-reacted-to-empire-strikes-back-in-the-same-way-fans-are-reacting-to-the-last-jedi

I don’t see a whole lot of overlap in the criticisms between ESB and TLJ.

Most of the criticisms of ESB is that it wasn’t neatly tied-up like SW77 was, and left people with a lot of questions. But the point is, they CARED, and were upset they’d have to wait 3 years to get the answers to those questions. They were expecting a happy ending like SW77 and they didn’t get it. They were frustrated, and didn’t like what happened to the characters…but they CARED.

My problem with TLJ is that it made me not give a crap anymore. Halfway through the film, I was wishing they’d all get blown up like in R1. I don’t CARE about Rose and Finn and Poe and Rey and Ren and whatever boring thing they’re going to do next. It left me with no interest at all in seeing ep. IX.

There was never a moment in the film where I was in suspense or on the edge of my seat wondering what was going to happen next. For an adventure/fantasy/sci-fi film, that’s an automatic thumbs-down for me.

If someone were to ask me to explain the plot of TLJ, I don’t think I could. The story and screenplay were very poorly conceived and written, IMO. 😕

Then the fandom is doomed. I’ll be at the bar if anyone needs me. 😛

Porkins4real said:

DrDre said:

NFBisms said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

I’ve been thinking a bit more about the broad stroke differences between TLJ and the rest of the saga, particulary the OT, and why some find TLJ refreshing, while others reject it. So, for a change I’m not going to talk about Rey’s Force powers, or Luke’s characterization, but more about in-universe history, and how that affects the story.

I think it is fair to say the OT is steeped in melancholy, and powerful connections to the past. The entire premise of ANH is to defeat the evil Empire, and to return the galaxy to a previous state, the fabled Old Republic. Luke is largely driven by the legend of his father, who’s friend Obi-Wan promises to teach him about an all but forgotten religion that both he and Luke’s father were a part of. The rest of the trilogy is largly set up such that Luke needs to vanguish the enemies of old, Darth Vader, and the Emperor, and avoid the pitfalls, that caused Vader, later revealed to be his father, to turn on his friend, and join the dark side.

To a large degree TFA operates in the same way. It treats Luke Skywalker as a legend of old, that both the heroes and villains are looking for. Luke went looking for the first Jedi temple, a place presumably steeped in Jedi history. It’s hinted, that Rey has a strong connection to the past, and Kylo Ren, who’s directly related to two other legends of the past, Han and Leia, was seduced to the dark side by some mysterious larger than life old anti-Yoda figure. Both Rey and Kylo Ren are struggling with their past, and the film ends with Kylo severing one of the links to his past by killing a past legend, while Rey connects with it by finding a past legend.

TLJ completely breaks with this Star Wars tradition. It actively deflates the past by telling us the history and legends we cherish are not as great as we want to believe. It actively cuts almost all ties to the past by killing off the remaining classic heroes (Leia technically not in the film), and even the links to the past TFA introduced. The mysterious Snoke is unceremoniously cast aside, and the secret of Rey’s past is, that she has no past, at least not one that’s relevant to her future. The family connection between good and evil that drove the OT and TFA is all but ignored, and then finally killed for good, when Leia gives up on her son, and Luke dies. What remains is a conflict between new heroes and new villains, that either killed their past, or don’t really have one.

It’s a bold move, which is sadly undercut by a strict adherence to the OT aesthetic and the OT’s basic premise of an Empire versus a small band of rebels. The question is why did the creators and by extension Disney decide to reboot the franchise, whilst also severing most connections to the past? My theory is, that it was done to make Star Wars more accessible to the general audience. Most of us hardcore fans will see the movies anyway. I know I probably will, despite my lack of enthousiasm. Anyone without much knowledge of Star Wars history will be able to see and enjoy episode IX. It’s starting point is similar to episode IV. There’s an evil Empire led by an evil maniac, a struggling rebellion led by an aspiring Jedi, and it looks like it’s part of the Star Wars brand. You need not know more.

It IS a bold move and one in which I think needed to happen for SW to evolve.

I might agree, if the bold move was used to create a new story, and new Star Wars lore but it wasn’t. It’s a reboot, and one that strips Star Wars from much of the deeper layers and themes, that made it stand out from the average blockbuster, in my opinion of course.

I think the themes and layers of TLJ are deeper and a little more meaningful than anything in both the OT and PT, especially in how the philosophical ideas tackled are all about our understanding of those previously established themes. It may be more of a meta-deconstruction of the themes, rather than a continuing re-affirmation of them, but they are still there and are still needed to be understood.

Well to me deconstructing and understanding are two very different things. IMO TLJ deconstructs the themes of the previous films not to provide understanding, but to devalue them. It’s thesis is not just that these themes are far less relevant going forward, but that they weren’t all that important in the first place, punctuated by Yoda’s page turner remark. The fact that the legends of old are used (or abused depending on your point of view) to transmit this message is also in of itself a clear attempt at devaluation, since even they are made to adhere to the new order.

I think it’s disingenuous to say TLJ is an average blockbuster or that anything it has to say is on that level of Transformers, or Geostorm, or Avengers. If anything, it’s a little too heady for its own good. I definitely think it has pacing and tonal issues, as well as one too many plot threads that clearly have muddled what it was trying to say in the end, but its intentions and fundamental ideas have more depth than just “insert SW brand here.” It can’t be that, as well as trying to burn down Star Wars traditions, at the same time. It’s trying to be so much more, and whether or not it succeeds is just a matter of opinion.

And while something can be said about how it uses an evil Empire and plucky rebellion, as well as TIEs, X-Wings, and lightsabers, that’s all superficial when what informs and drives those things are clearly different enough to not be “Star Wars” to many people thematically.

Yes, but the whole point is, that the general audience doesn’t care about the themes that drove Star Wars in the past. In my view the current owners of the franchise feel Star Wars’ themes and connections to the past are a stumbling block for the general audience to connect with the material. In order to facilitate the growth of the potential market of these films, these themes and historic connections need to be simplified or removed.

Then the people running the franchise are DUMB. My kids, nieces and nephews all love the OT more than anything that came after, they were born 30+ years after ANH, yet they love it. I had 5-year-old ask “why luke doing that?”. They don’t need to worry about growing the audience, and ignoring what made the franchise so popular is not the way to do it.

Disney should know better. Look at the lineups they have for crappy rides that have been around for 60 years. Why? they still work and multigenerations experienced them in their youth and enjoy seeing their kids enjoy them.

Interesting, as I know a segment of the Disney theme park fanbase sees red every time one of those classic rides gets tweaked to be more PC, or has modern elements added. Pirates Of The Caribbean being a prime example. It’s like the Special Edition of E ticket attractions.

https://geektyrant.com/news/stunning-fan-trailer-for-the-star-wars-brings-ralph-mcquarries-vision-of-the-film-to-life

https://geektyrant.com/news/star-wars-fans-in-1980-reacted-to-empire-strikes-back-in-the-same-way-fans-are-reacting-to-the-last-jedi

Did you ask for a refund?

Mike O said:

Mark’s Down On Your Syntax said:

Mike O said:

But it’s so cold out there 😉. What’d you disagree with, just out of curiosity?

Your sentiments on The Last Jedi. I’ve seen it four times and I really, thoroughly, completely adore that movie! (I do appreciate that my opinion is not one that’s shared by many though!)

Fair enough. I know it’s proving divisive.

Divisive is putting it mildly. 😉

We’ll all be heads floating in jars by the time that happens. 😉

Mocata said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mocata said:

I hate to ask, but what the heck is that?

Jabba’s death scene. With extra choking. ROTJ by James Khan.

Keep in mind the novel also says Obi Wan and Uncle Owen were brothers. Old printings do anyway.

Mielr said:

Warbler said:

which obviously for years I didn’t think were choking noises.

Someone check the closed-captioning to see if it says: “(CHOKING NOISES)” 😉

Hot damn! I was thinking that just as I saw your post! Get out of my mind! :p

Anyway, here’s the scene in question.
https://youtu.be/LLbO16m3nNI?t=1m9s

LOL!

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

Mocata said:

lovelikewinter said:
I’d have rather he said Palpatine. However, I’m thankful we didn’t get Hayden Christensen in this, so he’s not going to be in the Trilogy unless JJ pulls a 180 on his ideas of the Prequels.

He should have said that the Jedi were so blind that a simple senator took power, it be more powerful and less … cringey. Now we have to consider that Luke caught up with friends for a drink after the war in that 1950s diner.

That might have been less annoying to everyone who wants the prequels to cease to exist, but Disney likes making money off that trilogy too. 😉
I still don’t get why people have issues with Dexter’s diner.

My issue with it is all the blatant CGI - Ewan is clearly the only real thing in the scene. To that point, their “hug” is one of the most embarrassing things in the whole PT. It probably would have looked more natural just seeing Ewan hugging air. Otherwise I kind of like Dex’s character.

The set is real. And a lot of underpaid animators in dark little cubicles worked hard on that shot for weeks! Cut them some slack! 😉
Seriously though, George picks the worst scenes for all CG characters.

Warbler said:

Does anyone know what the dice things were that Luke handed Leia?

I’d to know why Yoda, after he died, didn’t appear in the Emperor’s thrown room and hit him with that lightning.

They’re the dice that hung in the Falcon cockpit. Briefly seen in the original film when Chewie first enters the cockpit.

TV’s Frink said:

Put up at Mike Pence’s Colorado vacation home.

Is that a little snowman on top or a snow dildo?

Mocata said:

lovelikewinter said:
I’d have rather he said Palpatine. However, I’m thankful we didn’t get Hayden Christensen in this, so he’s not going to be in the Trilogy unless JJ pulls a 180 on his ideas of the Prequels.

He should have said that the Jedi were so blind that a simple senator took power, it be more powerful and less … cringey. Now we have to consider that Luke caught up with friends for a drink after the war in that 1950s diner.

That might have been less annoying to everyone who wants the prequels to cease to exist, but Disney likes making money off that trilogy too. 😉
I still don’t get why people have issues with Dexter’s diner. We had a sleazy bar in the first film. They probably have fast food in the GFFA too. Sentient beings like to go out to eat, no matter what galaxy they’re in.

Again, Palpatine was the front, the mask. We don’t know how the history books in the GFFA refer to him. On the flip side of the coin, we don’t even know if Vader’s true identity is widely known.

I doubt we’ll ever see a young Anakin ghost, but a hologram isn’t out of the question.

Someone is going to go Sarah Connor on that robot. Wait and see.

Porkins4real said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mielr said:

TV’s Frink said:

Mielr said:

DrDre said:

I personally allways interpreted the scene as signifying Luke’s a darker character now, and more like his father than he might think. So, to me that allways was a case of Luke using a Force choke, but if Hamill or anyone else sees it differently, I suppose only George Lucas has the answer. The ROTJ screenplay doesn’t speak of a Force choke, so you may very well be right.

Which scene are you referring to?

ROTJ at Jabba’s palace when Luke force chokes the pigmen to gain access.

There are a few people here who believe Luke was using a mind trick to make them go to sleep.

Which I’m incredulous at…though I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

Ahhh…I forgot about that. I think the pig guard put his hand up to his throat, didn’t he?

Quite.

Someone (can’t remember who) claimed he put his hands over his chest, which was apparently meant to show they’re going to sleep.

Lol.

I went back and watched again. It does look like he may of caused a 'Force Heart attack" to one of the pigmen. That would be a bada$$ Jedi move.

Those lard-asses have such a lousy diet, it’s a rare day they don’t feel like they’re having a heart attack. 😛