As far as depth goes it’s a bit deeper than STAR WARS was. Especially when it comes to the villain aspect of the films.
I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.
John Doom said:
I see what you mean. If conflicts are an asset in SW to youI’m sure it’s an asset to every one. It’s called Star Wars for a reason you know.
😄 that’s true, but let’s not jump to conclusions: I’m not the only one who suggested this idea, and there are also other people who liked it, so there are definitely people who don’t think full intergalactic conflicts in SW are a given.
with different kind of conflicts and enemies
What types of new enemies would you have in mind? I’ve been toying with an idea of having all of the non Force Sensitives hunt down those who use The Force because the galaxy is tired of the wars they bring upon them.
I simply meant changing the empire with stuff typical of the Cold War imaginary (ideologies, spies, information control, rogues).
I like your idea a lot too, which also reminds me a bit of KOTOR2. Imagine the main characters/viewers being initially told the Force Sensitives are the plague which once brought war in the galaxy: it could’ve led to a very interesting and original plot 😉
I like it. Instead of Jedi vs. Sith, it would be Force-Sensatives vs. Non-Force-Sensatives. That is actually original.
Kylo Ren, while his story is very similar to Darth Vader’s, is one of the greatest villains of all time and the best Star Wars villain.
Urge to drink … rising.
To be fair, I would’ve said that Kylo was the second best Star Wars villain if the prequels didn’t thoroughly ruin Vader.
Some other tips :
Avoid politics. The original Star Wars wasn’t really WW2 in space. The Empire was just based on the Nazis but also the British during the American Revolution (why all the grey shirts have British accents). Star Wars is more like the American Revolution in space not WW2 and this isn’t explained through dialogue. We know this from the very first shot of the original Star Wars. Keep the politics simple and visual. You didn’t hear any talk of space taxes in the original trilogy.
Sadly, the prequels are still canon. Any Jedi character more skilled than a Padawan is probably going to be an emotionless robot IF there is a Jedi Order. It doesn’t even make sense that there would be a succesful Jedi Order since Luke did not finish his training even after Return of the Jedi. Work around the prequels.
I actually enjoyed the prequels in spite of Jar Jar’s annoying presence and Anakin’s unlikability. At least the prequels were original even if the execution was wanting in many respects.
I am still surprised that you prefer Kylo Ren to Darth Vader. Kylo Ren is essentially the bipolar Anakin Skywalker from Attack of the Clones only less skilled in combat.
At least when Anakin complained about Obi-Wan and lashed out in anger after his mother’s death I could understand the source of his anger and empathize with him.
After Anakin’s transformation to the dark side, he massacred children in a heartbeat - no questions asked. Kylo Ren struggles to be evil. He is the weakest villain in the history of weak villains. Rey utterly defeats him the first time she wields a lightsaber. Compare this to Darth Vader defeating his own son and cutting off his hand in The Empire Strikes Back.
Any of the villains from Prequel Trilogy - Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Count Dooku, Jango Fett, General Grievous, Darth Vader, or even the Neimoidians - would be more menacing than Kylo Ren.
Kylo Ren is a bipolar emo goth copycat killer with granddaddy issues who wears a mask for funsies. He is the weakest villain of any story from any culture in the history of literature.
I’d give the superweapon to the good guys. Ethical quandaries all around.
This.
Personally, I think that C-3PO was hilarious in the final battle.
Don’t worry, as you mature you’ll realize he’s not.
No, I remember my mother and father laughing at C-3PO’s puns. My older sister also thought they were funny.
To answer the original question:
To which I’d like to add this:
Personally, I think that C-3PO was hilarious in the final battle. However, I agree that the comic relief distracts from the battle sequence and should have been cut.
I enjoyed Yoda’s lightsaber duel with Count Dooku as a child, but in retrospect I agree that it is inconsistent with Yoda’s character and should have been cut.
I agree that a lot of the dialogue was poorly written and that the film could have been edited much better. LucasFilm should have hired Hal9000 as an editor.
However, in spite of these flaws, I think that Attack of the Clones is still a decent film. It is only when I compare the film to the Original Trilogy that I find it wanting.
Since Queen Amidala never mentions the senate in this scene, the first two lines of the above dialogue are incoherent and should have been cut in your fan edit.
Eh, I don’t think so. She mentions that the Chancellor (of the Senate) has sent ambassadors to command them to settle their dispute. It seems appropriate to hear one of them say something about the Senate not allowing them to do what they’re doing.
I understand that the supreme chancellor sent ambassadors to settle the trade dispute. But I was not under the impression that the senate ever explicitly authorized him to do so.
And Dooku is more of an independent thinker with better end goals than Maul. If you look into his character, him not aligning himself with the sith all the way to the point of having a darth title makes sense.
That is a good point. I never thought of that.
Ignore most of my previous criticisms. This fan edit was brilliant. One of my only complaints is that you changed “ten thousand” star systems seceding from the Galactic Republic to “a thousand,” an unnecessary change which lessened the stakes involved in the war. I also cannot understand why you removed the title Darth Tyrannus. All Sith Lords have a personal name and a Sith name, so it would be illogical for Count Dooku to not have a Sith name as well.
I’m glad you’ve come around!
Some editors remove all of the ‘Darths’ from the PT because in their edits, what you say (All Sith Lords have a personal name and a Sith name) is not true. Hal keeps Darth Plagueis though, I think, so presumably the change in AoTC is simply due to Tyrannus sounding stupid. Either way, it doesn’t affect the canon by not having it mentioned during Dooku’s incredibly limited screen time in the film, if you want to consider that his Sith name.
First Jango Fett says that a man named Tyrannus hired him to be the genetic template of the clone army. Then towards the end of the film, Darth Sidious refers to Count Dooku as Darth Tyrannus, telling the close viewer that Count Dooku hired Jango Fett, implying that Count Dooku must have killed Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas and taken over the creation of the clone army. It is a very subtle revelation which is obscured in this fan edit.
I also miss the scene in which Yoda is instructing the younglings. I believe the scene is necessary to reconcile the fact that Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan’s master with the fact that Obi-Wan says Yoda instructed him in The Empire Strikes Back. The only way to reconcile the two is if Yoda taught Obi-Wan as a child.
However, these are very minor flaws compared to the great feat this fan edit achieved. After watching it, I believe that I agree with at least 90% of the changes made.
Iv gotta disagree with you on Hal’s changes. Taking it from tens of thousands to a thousand is a smart change. Tens of thousands of SYSTEMS is just ridilcous and way out of proportion. And taking the tyrannous title away elevates Dookus character by making him more independent and lessens pointless confusion of him having two names. I quite literally only have 3 changes in his entire trilogy that I mind.
- Keeping Vaders “Nooo”. He has reasons why it’s just I personally feel it can be left out.
- Padme living, I prefer the irony of her dying. Again just personal prefence.
- Taking out “only a sith deals in absolutes”. Ewan delivers the line with such solemn acknowldment of the situation that it makes me love it.
But again, Hal’s edits IMO are the definitives because he set out to edit them in a way that they could legitamely be released in theaters editing quality wise. Thanks again for saving the prequels!
There are approximately 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy. If the Star Wars galaxy is similar to our own galaxy and if thousands of solar systems have planets with intelligent life, I fail to see the problem . . .
Your assertion that taking away the title Darth Tyrannus elevates Count Dooku is puzzling. If Hal9000 keeps the titles “Darth Sidious,” “Darth Maul,” and “Darth Vader,” then Count Dooku is the only Sith Lord without a Sith name, which is illogical. Furthermore, if you remove the dialogue in which the title Darth Tyrannus occurs, the subtle revelation that Count Dooku hired Jango Fett and took over the creation of the clone army from Sifo-Dyas is removed.
Ignore most of my previous criticisms. This fan edit was brilliant. One of my only complaints is that you changed “ten thousand” star systems seceding from the Galactic Republic to “a thousand,” an unnecessary change which lessened the stakes involved in the war. I also cannot understand why you removed the title Darth Tyrannus. All Sith Lords have a personal name and a Sith name, so it would be illogical for Count Dooku to not have a Sith name as well.
I’m glad you’ve come around!
Some editors remove all of the ‘Darths’ from the PT because in their edits, what you say (All Sith Lords have a personal name and a Sith name) is not true. Hal keeps Darth Plagueis though, I think, so presumably the change in AoTC is simply due to Tyrannus sounding stupid. Either way, it doesn’t affect the canon by not having it mentioned during Dooku’s incredibly limited screen time in the film, if you want to consider that his Sith name.
First Jango Fett says that a man named Tyrannus hired him to be the genetic template of the clone army. Then towards the end of the film, Darth Sidious refers to Count Dooku as Darth Tyrannus, telling the close viewer that Count Dooku hired Jango Fett, implying that Count Dooku must have killed Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas and taken over the creation of the clone army. It is a very subtle revelation which is obscured in this fan edit.
I also miss the scene in which Yoda is instructing the younglings. I believe the scene is necessary to reconcile the fact that Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan’s master with the fact that Obi-Wan says Yoda instructed him in The Empire Strikes Back. The only way to reconcile the two is if Yoda taught Obi-Wan as a child.
However, these are very minor flaws compared to the great feat this fan edit achieved. After watching it, I believe that I agree with at least 90% of the changes made.
Ignore most of my previous criticisms. This fan edit was brilliant. One of my only complaints is that you changed “ten thousand” star systems seceding from the Galactic Republic to “a thousand,” an unnecessary change which lessened the stakes involved in the war. I also cannot understand why you removed the title Darth Tyrannus. All Sith Lords have a personal name and a Sith name, so it would be illogical for Count Dooku to not have a Sith name as well.
But these are all minor complaints. This fan edit is much better than the original version.
Might as well outline my concept for preserving the reveal in Empire while still providing a story with a beginning, middle, and end, not making Ben sound like a liar, and not making the audience feel like they’re missing information (even though they are).
The idea is that there is a new character named Darth Vader (Name. Not title.). In Episode 1 Vader is a young Jedi apprenticed by Obi-Wan (and I guess Qui-Gon if you really want him there). Feeling insulted by the Jedi for ignoring his talents and potential by pairing him with such a young, inexperienced Jedi like Obi-Wan, he joins the dark side, staging his own death at the beginning of the film, only to reveal himself as the one behind it all toward the end. (If Qui-Gon is there he can be the one to kill him, adding more personal rivalry between he and Obi-Wan.)
Obi-Wan meets Anakin, takes it upon himself to train him as a Jedi, yadeeyada. Eventually, Anakin’s pushing of himself and lust for power turns him to the dark side, teaming up with Darth, his enemy, but Palpatine the puppet master’s plan is to pit them against each other for the more powerful one to be his ultimate apprentice.
Everything leads to a three way duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, and Darth Vader atop a massive volcano. Obi-Wan get tossed aside and topples down the side of the volano. Miraculously he survives and watches in horror from a distance as his greatest enemy and his former best friend duke it out atop the volcano.
Both of their lightsabers get tossed aside. They struggle with each other physically. The volcano trembles as the two let out their anger. They push and pull at each other ferociously until they both topple over, disappearing into the fires of the volcano.
Obi-Wan assumes them both dead and leaves, taking Anakin’s saber as a memento of his fallen friend.
Much later we cut back to the edge of the volcano where a charred hand reaches out from the volcano and grasps Vader’s saber lying in the rubble.
Fast forward to A New Hope. Obi-Wan says: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader who was a pupil of mine until he turned evil helped the empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights.” Check.
“He betrayed and murdered your father” Check.
You may feel like Obi-Wan is withholding some information to spare Luke’s feelings, maybe hoping to tell him the whole story later, but you never get the sense that he is outright lying to Luke.Fast forward to The Empire Strikes Back: “Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.” You’re thinking ‘he’s going to tell Luke that Anakin turned to the dark side before he died to convince Luke to join him’
Then he drops the bomb “No. I am your father.” Suddenly it makes sense. Anakin is the one who crawled out of the volcano, not Darth. Anakin emerged and took over the mantle of Darth Vader, leaving the last trace of his old identity behind him.
That scenario is totally and completely devoid of logic.
If that scenario was the backstory of the original trilogy, how come Obi-Wan says in Return of the Jedi that he only told Luke the truth “from a certain point of view,” implying that he purposefully lied through mental equivocation? If that scenario was the backstory of the original trilogy, how is Obi-Wan aware that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader?
Obi-Wan lied. Get over it.
I was finally able to watch this fan edit, and I must say that I am very impressed. However, there is some dialogue you kept which I believe should have been cut.
For example, you should have cut the first two lines of the following dialogue:
RUNE: She’s right, the Senate will never . . .
NUTE: (interrupting) It’s too late now.
RUNE: Do you think she suspect an attack?
NUTE: I don’t know, but we must move quickly to disrupt all communications down there.
Since Queen Amidala never mentions the senate in this scene, the first two lines of the above dialogue are incoherent and should have been cut in your fan edit. However, this is a minor detail. Overall, your fan edit is excellent and much preferable to the original. I especially enjoyed the fan edit’s treatment of Anakin as a deliberate hero instead of an accidental hero.
Scott109 said:
I scoff at the notion that Jabba the Hutt would be immune to Jedi mind tricksObi-Wan said that mind tricks only worked on the weak minded.
Did Jabba the Hutt seem particularly strong-minded to you? He was a stupid ogre.
The Phantom Menace was indisputably the worst Star Wars film
WRONG
But AOTC is the worst no matter the presence or non-presence of CPY.
I actually greatly prefer Attack of the Clones to The Phantom Menace or even to Return of the Jedi . . .
No, I see no reason to bring back the ghosts, especially since the ghosts may have no clear connection to the new characters in the saga, depending upon Rey’s ancestry. Furthermore, Disney may remake the prequels, so it would not be a smart decision.
Why does Jabba the Hutt resist Luke’s mind trick in Return of the Jedi? Jabba the Hutt was a weak-minded ogre. He should have fallen for the mind trick.
The argument that George Lucas always intended the Jedi to be selfless and emotionless people is not true. Hell, in the first draft of TPM (found here: http://starwarsuniverse2.tripod.com/id7.html) Obi-Wan ends up falling in love with Anakin’s mother!
And Han Solo was originally supposed to be a reptilian alien. Scripts change. However, the fact that the Jedi Code forbids romantic love in Attack of the Clones is not inconsistent with anything explicitly stated in the Original Trilogy. It may be inconsistent with how you imagined the Jedi, but that is a purely subjective objection.
Is the romance between Anakin and Padmé really that unrealistic? I think it is a psychologically accurate portrayal of a woman falling in love with a man suffering from Bipolar Disorder, an occurrence which happens much more frequently than you would imagine.
What?
It was pretty obvious that Anakin suffered from Manic Depressive Disorder or Bipolar Disorder.
These are common symptoms of Bipolar Disorder:
Delusions of grandeur (“I will be the greatest Jedi ever. I will even learn how to stop people from dying”)
Either sleeping excessively or experiencing insomnia (Anakin wakes up early because he cannot sleep)
Extreme restlessness and extreme depression (Anakin is constantly active, has intense bursts of energy, throws things, weeps bitterly, and massacres the Tusken Raiders when his mother dies)
Rapid and unprovoked mood swings (Anakin’s mood is always unpredictable)
Hallucinations or visions (Anakin sees hallucinatory visions of his mother)
An inability to concentrate (Obi-Wan always tells Anakin to concentrate)
The problem is not that Anakin isn’t realistically portrayed as a jerk, it’s that he acts like a jerk at all. He’s supposed to be one of the main characters, in the OT he was described as a great man and a good friend, we should be relating to him and care for him, not cringe at his creepy attempts to seduce Padme, even if this creepiness was intended.
The same can be said of all in-universe explanations of the PT’s faults. Sure, Palpatine can use the dark side to make the Jedi order stupid, but does it make for a good movie if the protagonists are a bunch of idiots?
These inconsistencies between how Obi Wan describes the Jedi and Anakin in Star Wars vs. how they are portrayed in the PT transforms him from a wise wizard to a senile old man, when his character was already weakened by making him a liar (from a certain point of view) in Empire.
The Jedi Council was not foolish; the dark side clouded its ability to prophecy the future.
The Jedi Council was suspicious of Palpatine in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith. Obi-Wan informed the Jedi Council that Count Dooku had told him that the senate was under the control of a Sith Lord, and he asked Anakin to spy on Palpatine. It was impossible to accuse Palpatine without any evidence.
If Anakin was not emotionally disturbed at all in Attack of the Clones, his transformation to the dark side in Revenge of the Sith would have been rushed and unbelievable.
I always thought that Padmé never thought of Anakin as creepy; she was only playing hard to get.
Anakin was a Jedi Knight, a war hero in the Clone Wars, a cunning warrior, and the best pilot in the galaxy. Obi-Wan was not lying.
I would rank the Star Wars films from my most favorite to my least favorite in the following order:
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Return of the Jedi
The Phantom Menace.
Return of the Jedi would have been better than Revenge of the Sith and Attack of the Clones if it were not for the Empire illogically building a second Death Star, Jabba the Hutt resisting a Jedi mind trick despite seeming weak-minded, and the cute and cuddly teddy bears obliterating the imperial stormtroopers.
The Phantom Menace was indisputably the worst Star Wars film due to the absence of a clear main character as well as the presence of Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, and Neimoidians.
The Force Awakens needed more trade disputes, more gungans, more midi-chlorians, and a child protagonist.
All jokes aside, the special effects were phenomenal and the plot was fast paced.
However, the political situation was impossible to understand, especially the relationship between the Resistance and the New Republic. Furthermore, it was hard to believe that Rey could use the Force so easily without any training in the ways of the Jedi.
Personally, I hope Rey is not a Skywalker. That would be too obvious.
Critics often scoff at the moment when Anakin says, “I don’t like sand. It’s course and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere.” But if you grew up on a desert planet and associated sand with slavery and with abandoning your mother at a young age, you would hate sand as well.
No, I would hate the planet.
For example, lets say someone lives in a bad, crime filled neighborhood. He wouldn’t say “I hate asphalt, because it makes the street I live on” he would say “I hate this street I live on.”
And they still wouldn’t say that in that scenario
We will have to agree to disagree. I think that Anakin was socially awkward and nervous around Padmé, so he said the first thing that came to mind when she spoke of lying in the sand. That line should have been cut because it adds nothing to the story, but I could still imagine him saying that.
If the Jedi of the OT forbade romance/marriage/etc., then wouldn’t this little taboo have been hinted at somewhere in the OT?
Why would it need to be hinted at in the Original Trilogy? Luke was on a need-to-know basis throughout the entire Original Trilogy. George Lucas only revealed the most vital elements of the backstory which were absolutely necessary for the audience to understand the plot and the characters.
However, I would still say that it is indirectly hinted at in the Original Trilogy. The Jedi Order was spoken of as an ancient religion. The only Jedi whom Luke encountered were Obi-Wan and Yoda, who were both single and celibate and who both wore monk robes. George Lucas gave every indication that the Jedi Order was a monastic order of warrior monks.
I was eight when I first watched Attack of the Clones.
You only watched Attack of the Clones this year?
No, I am twenty-one.
Ah, where should I start… First off, I agree that the “forbidden love” plotpoint makes sense and functions just fine, but most people just disagree with it. The main reason that I dislike that subplot is because it makes the Jedi seem less likeable and I think it seems out of character for personalities such as Yoda to enforce that rule, but that’s just me.
How would it be out of character for Yoda to enforce monastic celibacy? In the Original Trilogy, Yoda is a harsh teacher who begs Luke to let his beloved friends die so that he can finish his training.
