Scott109

Dek Rollins said:

Well, it is my inference, but there’s a reason that Ben gives Han that ‘oh really’ look, right after the parsecs line. As far as I’m concerned, Han was just using technical lingo to try and fast talk them into paying him his price for the ride.

That was the impression I got as well while watching A New Hope. I thought that Han was just bullshitting Obi-Wan and Luke. Sadly The Force Awakens eliminated that possibility.

doubleofive said:

The Falcon is in the prequels (twice?). It’s been around.

I must have missed it. Do you have photographic evidence?

TV’s Frink said:

“That’s not how X works” has made it into my everyday conversations, and will feature heavily in the ROT.

Considering Han Solo was never trained as a Jedi (and neither was Leia), how exactly does he know how the Force does or does not work?

Also, what do you plan on calling your fan edit combining Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith?

JediExile said:

Didn’t like The Force Awakens at all.

Finn was a ridiculous character. Raised from birth as a Stormtrooper, “programmed” to be obedient (General Hux’s words), and he absolutely loses it on his first mission. I wouldn’t have a problem with this if he wasn’t programmed from birth and the First Order recruited like the Empire did, but it is an issue and leads to his character feeling forced. I would have greatly preferred if Finn slowly broke his brainwashing over the course of the movie instead of at the beginning. It would have led to a much more believable character.
Finn also has a kind of odd personality for a Stormtrooper. He’s pretty much the comic relief of the movie which was really confusing to me as I don’t really see that going well with the First Order.

Rey was just poorly developed. She’s the only Force user that I’ve really seen in the canon series that picks up her Force abilities that fast with absolutely zero training. Aside from that, I found her hard to relate to because I didn’t really get a sense of who she was throughout the movie. Luke in ANH was a good-hearted kid who wants to get off Tatooine and live his life. Anakin in TPM was also a good-hearted little boy who wanted to become a Jedi and strived to help others. I don’t really know who Rey is. She misses her parents and wants to get off Jakku, but she acts like an ass to Finn when she meets him and to BB-8 when all he wants to do is really stick around her. She doesn’t seem very social and appears to have no friends at all and I’m just not sure about her though. This is mostly how I feel about her subjectively though, she just kind of bored me.

Finn and Rey also lack chemistry despite caring about each other(???). They’ve known each other for such a small amount of time, yet Finn seems to really be attracted and attached to her in the Cantina scene. Why ask this girl you just met to come with you? Why bother asking this guy you met to stick with you? Why does Finn even care that he lied to her? Just very confusing match.

Kylo Ren is just confusing to me. He worships Vader, a Sith Lord who turned to the light. Not only that, he prays(?) to Vader’s helmet (how did he get that?) to help him stay on the dark side? Is the First Order unaware of Vader turning back to the light and redeeming himself? Kylo was a student of Luke right, shouldn’t he know this too? Does the First Order not acknowledge this happened?

Speaking of Return of the Jedi, this movie is a horrible continuation of the OT. Return of the Jedi has Vader redeem himself, Leia is revealed to be Force sensitive like her brother, the Empire is in shambles, the New Republic is probably going to rule over the galaxy, and Luke is going to rebuild the Jedi Order. So why is there a resistance group in TFA instead of a formal army? Why is Vader being worshipped as a Sith instead of a redeemed Jedi? How did Kylo Ren manage to kill all of Luke’s students? Why did Luke run away from his friends and duty as a Jedi? Why didn’t Luke tell Leia where he was? What is the state of the Republic right now? I did some googling on the state of the Republic and why it had no military and you know what I found? They fucking disarmed 90% of their military in a treaty with (if I can remember properly) the remnants of the Empire. For what purpose? Why wasn’t this in the movie? Why drop the audience back inside Star Wars 30 years after RotJ and not explain ANYTHING?

Then there’s Starkiller. Another Death Star really bothered me, especially the way Starkiller was designed. What’s the point of the huge recharging planet instead of just 5 Death Stars 2.0s? Can Starkiller move? How does one aim a planet? Why waste resources on making a planet into a superweapon? I thought the First Order was a remnants group of the Empire, how did they get these resources? Wouldn’t sucking out all the energy from the Sun literally kill everyone on Starkiller? I’m not a scientist and I don’t know much about our own Sun, but I can’t imagine something like that going out and being good.

The final fight annoyed me a little too. Kylo Ren quite literally teleports from the inside of Starkiller, far away from Rey and Finn right to the middle of the forest where Rey and Finn ran to. Ahead of them. Kylo slams Rey against a tree and knocks her unconscious for a while and Finn picks up Anakin/Luke’s lightsaber to defend himself and Rey. Now I’d like to point out that in a previous scene, Finn got his ass completely demolished by a random Stormtrooper. He was almost killed until Han saved him. In this scene, Finn is suddenly a lot more skilled with the lightsaber despite never using it again after getting his ass kicked. He does a decent job of holding off Ren and even manages to land a hit on him (had a chuckle when this happened, can’t imagine any other Sith getting hit by a lowly Stormtrooper). Kylo gets pissed and disarms Finn and slices his back open after this. Now Kylo’s arm should probably be disabled from Finn’s hit and Finn should probably be dead from Ren’s hit, but the fight must go on so whatever. So Ren suddenly turns his attention to the lightsaber stuck in the snow and struggles to Force Pull it from the ground. I’d like to take a moment to remind you that Ren not even 5-6 minutes ago lifted a ~100 pound girl into the air and sent her flying and dragged a much heavier man towards him in an earlier scene where he throws a temper tantrum. So he obviously fails and Rey proves to be more skilled in pulling small objects with the Force than Kylo. They fight and Rey understandably holds up better than Finn. It’s easy to assume she’s trained with melee weapons before as seen when she beats those thugs on Jakku to a pulp. But Kylo is more skilled with the Force than Rey and more skilled with a lightsaber too, so the tides start turning towards him. Once again, makes sense. And here’s where the final scene really bothers me. Ren mentions taking her as his apprentice and training her in the ways of the Force. She suddenly remembers she has the Force, mentions the Force OUT LOUD in front of Kylo, and closes her eyes. Kylo stares at her like a dumb brick, completely unaware that Rey is trying to use the Force to support her. Rey then suddenly turns the battle and whoops the trained Sith’s ass hard. Somehow. Then the grounds splits and Kylo is left in the middle of nowhere on a dying planet (He’ll be back in the sequel though somehow just because).

So my ranking of SW movies after seeing TFA three times is 4 > 5 > 6 = 1 > 3 > 7 > 2. Just a pretty mediocre movie that I didn’t really have fun watching at all.
Apologize if this is too long and poorly formatted, but I’m not used to this bare bones kind of forum.

I think that a lot of the questions are probably explained in the novelization. The First Order believes Darth Vader slaying the emperor was a moment of weakness and did not diminish his legacy.

I now believe Luke trained Rey before Kylo saved her from the knights of Ren, wiped her memory, and set her on Jakku. That would explain why she subconsciously knows how to perform a Jedi mind trick.

I agree with you on Finn. The idea of a black stormtrooper was cool. John Boyega was a good actor, but J. J. Abrams made Finn too likeable to seem like an authentic renegade stormtrooper. Others may disagree with me on this, but that is just my opinion.

I am surprised you would rate Episode I over Episode III.

Macsvoltage said:

Here is how he dies in this edit.

Han is planting the bombs to blow up the facility. Kylo walks out onto the catwalk, turns around, and says “Han Solo. I’ve been waiting for this day for a long time.” We cut to Han placing a bomb. Kylo says “I’ll show you the Dark Side.” Quick cut to his gloved hand extending. The bomb explodes and Han goes along with it. Kylo takes off his helmet, we cut to Leia feeling Han’s death, and then we cut back to Chewie gettin’ pissed and shooting everyone.

Could you link to a video sample of this scene? I would really like to watch it.

Smithers said:

Bingowings said:

<span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”> I watched the first trailer for</span> TPM <span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>I assumed that the duel with Maul took place on a spaceship and that Padme telling everyone to get to their ships would take place in the same time that the earlier hanger scene took place.</span> TPM <span style=“font-size: 1.2em; line-height: 1.2em;”>(Naboo, Tatooine, Coruscant, Naboo) seems to go around in circles when it really needs to go in a straight line (for me Coruscant, Tatooine, Naboo).</span>

I’m going to play with this idea, I just realized that since the opening will be moved to the third act:

-Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon go to the droid control ship <span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>undercover at</span> the end and are spotted so they have to fight some droids

-They make their way down to the hangar when Darth Maul shows up

-Meanwhile, Padme and Naboo soldiers battle droids in the palace while there’s a battle outside the droid control ship

-Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan battle Maul in the power generator and it ends with only Obi-Wan escaping alive

-Obi-Wan gets on that red ship (that didn’t get blown up) and destroys the control ship from the inside (instead of Anakin going into a war)

I know this would take some VFX but I think it would work

I like the idea of Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon battling Darth Maul inside the Droid Control Ship. It would be reminiscent of Luke battling Vader and Sidious aboard the second Death Star.

Bingowings said:

I will once again bore you all to death with my preferred sequence of events.

In ANH there is constant reference to the Rebel Hidden Base and the plans so it makes sense that the final destination of the film is Yavin and the use of the plans to destroy the Death Star. The characters all follow a path to that single destination which results in an action packed end sequence.

I would have Padme on Coruscant representing her people with representative Binks and trying to prevent an invasion diplomatically at the beginning of the film. Have some transmission on the Queen’s secret channel cut off and disputed as nonsense in the senate but supported by some Jedi (Dooku, Qui-Gon) with resistance (Maceinyourface Windu). She then heads off home and is shot down over Tatooine. They pick up Anakin after winning the parts to repair the ship and then rescue the significantly damaged planet by Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon landing on the droid command ship fighting droids and finally facing Maul in the reactor room. Obi-Wan shuts down the droid army or sends a full report to the senate and escapes before Anakin purposefully destroys the ship, everyone celebrates and they eat barbecued Jedi Master…

This would be interesting to watch.

Jeebus said:

Yeah, Scott, please do give your opinions, but you’re stating them as if they’re fact or demands. Like when you said “Personally, I like the idea of Anakin destroying the Droid Control Ship at such a young age, a feat which demonstrates his abilities as a pilot,” that’s fine, but for every other criticism you’re just going “no, don’t do that, do this.”

Alright. I was just trying to save time and use relatively few words. I did not want my tone to come across in that manner. Of course, my opinions are purely subjective, and they are not facts or demands. I can only give my point of view; I cannot speak for everyone. I figured that Smithers would want as much constructive feedback as possible from as many people as possible.

I have no idea how it would even be possible to pull off many of those changes. For example, Jango Fett is the assassin whom Obi-Wan is seeking in Episode II. If you remove him, would you not have to remove the assassination attempt as well? And if there is no assassination attempt, what is the explanation for why Anakin and Padmé travel to Naboo?

What surprises would removing Yoda from the Star Wars prequels preserve?

How will you change General Grievous’ four lightsabers into a single double-sided red lightsaber?

Wouldn’t the contrast between the live action Darth Maul and the CGI Darth Maul be too jarring?

Do you intend to remove Darth Maul’s death from Episode I?

What lightsaber fights (other than presumably Yoda’s) would you want to eliminate? What new ending would you have at the end of your second episode?

If Padmé does not die, why does she willingly part with her son Luke?

I am so confused!

Some of the changes, such as Anakin finishing C-3PO and taking him to Coruscant, more Darth Maul, the clone army intervening after the invasion of Naboo, a different child Anakin voice, and so forth, would be epic if you could pull them off.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Actually if it were recessive, allowing the Jedi to have children with non sensitives would increase the amount of force sensitivity out there over time by introducing the gene into the general pool. It’s just that not every child would be force sensitive.

If you limited who they could have kids with, you’d end up after several generations with a very unhealthy genetic pool.

This

Frank your Majesty said:

Scott109 said:

If force sensitivity is a recessive trait, it would be possible to be force sensitive but not have force sensitive parents and vice versa.

If force sensitivity was a recessive trait, all kids of two Jedi would have this ability, too. And kids of non-Jedi would have an incredibly small chance to be force sensitive. This would make it almost mandatory that Jedi have families and children, otherwise the order quickly runs out of members.

Not necessarily. If Force sensitivity is recessive, two parents who are not Force sensitive could conceive an offspring who is Force sensitive provided that both of the parents have one dominant gene and one recessive gene. Moreover, not everyone who is Force sensitive is recruited into the Jedi Order.

Furthermore, there is another thing to consider: if Jedi had families, George Lucas would have probably shown at least some of those families on screen. That would probably mean many more child actors in the Prequel Trilogy.

DominicCobb said:

Yeah it was definitely a retcon and a mostly pointless one at that. Just playing devil’s advocate.

I think if they had addressed the absurdity of the rule in-movie as one of the many reasons the Jedi order is somewhat broken and archaic and tied it into Anakin’s disillusionment with the order, I would be fine with it. But, of course, as is there’s no point beyond Lucas trying to make it an epic love story or whatever.

I thought that it was clear that Anakin’s disillusionment with the Jedi Order was the primary reason for the turn to the dark side after his desire to save Padmé. The Jedi Code forbade attachment to all worldy things, which kept him from his mother, whom he left as a vulnerable young boy, leading to her violent death. The Jedi Code forbade his marriage to Padmé, whom he loved more than life itself. When Anakin learned that the Jedi Council was planning to execute the democratically elected supreme chancellor without a trial and seize direct control of the Republic, Anakin became convinced that the Jedi Order was corrupt. From Anakin’s point of view, Palpatine sought to win the war against the separatists, whereas the Jedi Order only sought to maintain power. Palpatine had told him the dark side could save Padmé, whereas Master Yoda had told him, “Let go of everything you fear to lose.”

The Jedi Code taught Anakin to repress his fear, anger, hatred, and love. Palpatine taught Anakin to give into his repressed emotions, which he desperately desired to hear.

If the Jedi Code never forbade natural emotions such as love and attachment, Anakin would not have been seduced to the dark side.

The Jedi Order had to be at least partially flawed, otherwise Anakin’s turn to the dark side would have been unbelievable.

The “attachment is forbidden” concept was not an excuse for George Lucas to insert poorly written cliché dialogue into the prequels. It was at the heart of the reason why Anakin turned to the dark side.

Gaffer Tape said:

So if this has already been brought up, I apologize, but I haven’t been here in a while. But the idea that the Jedi were supposed to be celibate in the OT is rather difficult to swallow because, um, well, Luke exists. And, yet, the fact that he is the son of a revered Jedi is never given a second’s thought or mention. Now, if I didn’t know much about, say, my mother, only for someone she knew to reveal to me that she was a nun, I’d probably have a few questions about that. I mean, sure, it’s not IMPOSSIBLE for my mother to have been a nun at some point in her life, but it would still probably turn my head a bit and cause me to ask for some details as to how I came into being.

And then, of course, you have Luke himself, whose main motivation is to become a Jedi, and while that motivation (and some last-minute, ham-fisted writing) ultimately trumps any romantic concerns… he totally has the hots for Princess Leia! And once again, no one ever says, “Hey, you know, Luke. Jedi aren’t supposed to be into that.”

And speaking of last-minute, ham-fisted writing, there is also the annoying idea that Force-sensitivity is hereditary. But if we are to accept that, then requiring Jedi to be celibate is an absolutely ridiculous, self-defeating idea. It’s almost like they WANTED to die out!

So while I don’t necessarily have a problem with an order of monastic, celibate warriors, it’s clear that it was a concept invented to give Anakin something to angst over.

Finally… eh, for what it’s worth, I really don’t mind the line about sand. Not really.

I think that it is clear that the Jedi Code died with the Jedi Order during the Great Jedi Purge.

Luke might not have been interested in learning the ways of the Force if Obi-Wan had insisted up front that he remain celibate for the rest of his life…

If force sensitivity is a recessive trait, it would be possible to be force sensitive but not have force sensitive parents and vice versa.

Density said:

Imagine TFA, but with Jaden Smith cast as Finn and Miley Cyrus’s little sister cast as Rey.

Also imagine lots more plot holes, replace all the good humor with cringe inducing toddler potty humor, and eliminate any traces of darkness for the majority of the film except have a drastic shift in tone towards the end in which Kylo Ren goes on a child-slaughtering rampage and is then burned in a graphic sequence. Only to be recovered by Snoke and become Darth Vader II.

I did not think that any of the humor in The Force Awakens was funny in the slightest other than the following quote from the film:

REY: I’ve never seen a resistance fighter before.
FINN: Well, this is what we look like. Some of us. Others look different.

The rest of the jokes were so terrible they were cringeworthy - not nearly as bad as the slapstick Jar Jar Binks humor in The Force Awakens, but cringeworthy nonetheless. The humor in any other Star Wars movie was way better.

POE: “Who talks first? You talk first? I talk first?”

FINN: “Okay, stay calm. Stay calm.”
POE: “I am calm.”
FINN: “I was talking to myself.”

FINN: “We’ll use the Force”
HAN: “That’s not how the Force works!”

HAN: “Is there a garbage chute…or trash compactor?”

REY: This is the ship that made the Kessel Run in fourteen parsecs?
SOLO: TWELVE! (Mumbling in irritation) fourteen…

The last quote in particular is a terrible joke which makes absolutely no sense. A parsec is a unit of space, not a unit of time. Saying “this is the ship that made the Kessel Run in fourteen parsecs” is as stupid as saying “this is the athlete who is so fast he finished the race in five miles.” J. J. Abrams just had to reference the most cringeworthy line of the Original Trilogy. Rey should not have any idea who Han Solo is or what the Millenium Falcon is. Han Solo was not a general in the Original Trilogy; he was merely a common smuggler who became a part of the Rebel Alliance. Everybody calls the Millenium Falcon a piece of garbage, so why would it be famous throughout the galaxy? This scene made me cringe at so many levels.

TV’s Frink said:

I don’t believe you.

Don’t get me wrong: I think Attack ot the Clones is a decent film. But my defense of the dialogue and the romance scenes was tongue-in-cheek.

TV’s Frink said:

We should nuke this entire site from orbit.

I originally started this thread as a tongue-in-cheek post. I never believed that the romance between Anakin and Padme was remotely believable. I just wanted to see your reactions.

People have taken this thread way too seriously. . . .

I saw The Force Awakens tonight for a second time. The film was much better than I remembered it, but ultimately it was still my least favorite Star Wars movie thus far, except for perhaps The Phantom Menace.

In the end, I still believe that Han Solo returning to the smuggling business after the events of the Original Trilogy destroys his character arc. That is probably my primary concern with the film.

The movie was at least tolerable when I watched it with the assumptions that Rey was Luke’s daughter whom he had trained as a child and that Kylo Ren had wiped her memory and abandoned her on Jakku.

If Rey had suppressed memories of her training with Luke as a child, her ability to perform a Jedi mind trick on the stormtrooper and to wield a lightsaber in combat becomes more believable.

imperialscum said:

Scott109 said:

imperialscum said:

As I said, empty filler to bind the crap together. The film would be the same without it.

I disagree. In my opinion, Luke Skywalker vanishing in a self-imposed exile was sheer brilliance on the part of J. J. Abrams. It was one of the few creative decisions that I liked in The Force Awakens.

It would be brilliant if it was actually a focus of the story and properly explored/utilised, rather than being an empty filler.

Anyway what makes you think it was JJ’s idea in the first place?

Well, he was the main screenwriter and the director, so I am assuming it was his idea…

imperialscum said:

As I said, empty filler to bind the crap together. The film would be the same without it.

I disagree. In my opinion, Luke Skywalker vanishing in a self-imposed exile was sheer brilliance on the part of J. J. Abrams. It was one of the few creative decisions that I liked in The Force Awakens.

yotsuya said:

Well, I think ATOC is the weakest of the PT. But that said, I think all of the PT are pretty awesome movies. They are nowhere near as good at the OT, but they stand far above a lot of the crap out there. There are quite a number of great SF movies that I would place on the scale between the OT and PT. Blade Runner, Stargate, Guardians of the Galaxy, Interstellar, and others. There are ones I like that I would put below the PT.

I think that the PT are fundamentally different from the OT and I think that should have been more expected and accepted by fans. Sometimes I feel like the fans were expecting the Clone Wars and forgot that the PT wan’t going to be about the best of Anakin, but about the fall of the Republic, the fall of Anakin, Obi-wan, and end with the birth of Anakin’s children. The fall of the Republic is about politics. GL based it on the fall of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. In the PT we have stepped back to an older era and I feel that GL let older movies inspire him. Watch TCM for a week and you’ll see what I mean.

I seriously wonder why people would complain about Anakin’s sand line. Sand is insidious stuff, especially in a desert. GL had personal experience with this in the SW, ROTJ, and TPM shoots. According to several sources, including Mike Verta, there is some serious dirt in the scenes shot in Tunesia. Sand gets everywhere and it is hard to get rid of it. Padme mentions the beach and Anakin instantly thinks of sand. To me that line is very organic and natural.

And let’s be clear. GL had a horrible task in the PT. Take the most iconic film villain of the 20th century and make him a somewhat likable character but with enough flaws so you can see why he fell to the Dark Side. I think he accomplished that. Does it make for a great screen character? No, absolutely not. Anakin is written to fail. That is a hard task. You have to walk the line between writing a likable character and the honest backstory of a great villain. How to you make the audience sympathize with him as you reveal how he became Darth Vader. Did GL do the greatest job? No, but he made 3 very successful movies that took the title of highest grossing movie away from Star Wars and those that had taken the title from it over the years. Bet of all, Eps 5, 6, 1, 2, and 3 are technically independent movies. They were all funded by the merchandising and side businesses that were born of Star Wars. Quite a brilliant move.

I think Lucas’s biggest mistake was directing AOTC and ROTS. Directing is not his greatest strength. He could also use some help with writing. And admittedly he had some unofficial help with Star Wars. I’ve read all the early drafts of the script and somewhere in the editing process is where the genius of the original movie was born. I think that is missing in the PT. In the OT, he had some genius help. Leigh Bracket and Irving Kershner is what made TESB so brilliant. He had no such help with the PT. For Star Wars he had Steven Spielberg and Francis Ford Coppola and his other early film friends checking his work. I think he relied too much on himself for the others and tried to stick to the pattern that worked, but it didn’t work as well. It worked financially, but it was not what many fans were expecting. At least not until Ep 3. But then we get the complaints that Anakin’s fall is not believable. I disagree with that. Watch it again. Palpatine catches him at a vulnerable moment after Mace Windu dies and does something to him to seal his final fall. He goes from saving Palpatine from Mace to killing younglings in a short span of time, but he was open to the change or it never could have happened. But if you watch that scene carefully, Anakin has no choice, he is turned by Palpatine using the force.

I think most complaints about the PT are justified. It could be made better with just a bit of editing. I personally hate the droid factory sequence (especially the part with C-3PO) and consider it the worst scene in any Star Wars movie. But I think too many fans ask too much of the Prequels. What we got was something good and what we wanted was the old magic back. I don’t think we will ever get that old magic back. If we could mine the archives and pull out other takes and go in and do some serious tweaking, I think the films could be what they were intended to be, but some of the complaints are about the inherent part of the story that can’t be edited out. The PT is really about Palpatine’s secret climb to power and how he dealt with those who stood in his way and manipulated others to his side. The characters we know from the OT were really just along for the ride.

The state of the Jedi Order is also very deliberate. GL is showing us how their inability to bend or see the obvious is what lead to their downfall. Anakin’s fate could have been different had the Jedi not been so bound by tradition. (Anakin being too old for training - not contemplating that a Jedi could fall in love - etc) Yoda is the best of a bad lot. I think Mace Windu is indicative of just what the Jedi had become. Tradition over justice. The Jedi we see are flawed. In the OT, Obi-wan blames himself for Anakin’s fall, but we learn that it was inevitable because the Jedi could not see that Palpatine was the Sith Lord and Palpatine had been Anakin’s friend and adviser since he arrived on Coruscant. The Jedi only tell Anakin what not to do. They never advise him on how to deal with his feelings, they just keep telling him to not have any. That works when you raise someone from early childhood in the order, but it didn’t work for Anakin.

While I find some of he dialog old fashioned (which I think was deliberate to give us the feel of an older time - which I think was derived from watching movies made in the 30’s and 40’s rather than just those set in the 30’s and 40’s), I find the story to be fascinating and brilliant. If you expected the PT to be just like the OT, you were going to be disappointed. If you went in expecting to see a past revealed you stood a better chance of liking the movies. I have tried from the beginning to see what GL was trying to do and judged him on that. I think he created a brilliant trilogy that could have used some outside input for dialog writing and directing, but I think he nailed the rest of it. Of course the one flaw I do see with what he did was he was too eager to let his imagination run wild, which was not always a good thing. I think the OT benefited from the technology hindrance he claimed to be operating under.

So I find myself agreeing with many of the complaints, but thinking that you are blowing the issue out of proportion. One of the things I found about Anakin is that if you use your imagination and substitute James Earl Jones’s voice you find that Hayden was speaking like Jones and the lines just come off terrible because of the voice, not the acting. Anakin comes off sounding whiny and immature whereas Vader would sound menacing. Doesn’t work for every line, but works for most, especially when Anakin is falling.

AOTC is the worst of the weaker trilogy. But the Saga as a whole is fantastic and tells a brilliant story of how things crumbled from the top and are restored from the bottom. While TFA may have great characters and dialog, I find the story to be weak and lacking any of the Brilliance of GL’s storytelling. The scenes are far superior to the PT, but the overall movie fails to create a story that can compare even to AOTC. It is still a great movie, but TFA isn’t as great.

I agree with most of what you said, but I think that The Phantom Menace was far worse than Attack of the Clones. I personally always liked the droid factory scene.

Lord Haseo said:

Scott109 said:
The Force Awakens was a thinly disguised remake of A New Hope

There are a lot of similarities but there are a lot of differences that make it more than some poorly disguised remake. It’s a soft remake at best.

a less coherent plot

Barely but I agree

and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters.

You’re going to need to elaborate because Rey, Finn and Kylo Ren were all layered characters. If anyone was lacking in terms of being layered it was Poe.

Finn is far too nice for someone who was conditioned to mercilessly kill innocents from childhood.

I think me and Silverwook more than refuted that point in the other thread.

Rey is far too perfect at everything.

Rey is not perfect at anything; that’s another hyperbolic statement. She’s really good at mechanics but she accidentally released the Rathtars, she’s okay at flying but almost crashed the Falcon BEFORE the chase even started and skidded it across the ground when being chased which is something Han or Luke would do on an off day. Especially considering Han Solo is the man who flew through an asteroid field like it was nothing. She’s easily the worst shot with a blaster on our roster of heroes and the only reason she won the lightsaber duel is because of extenuating circumstances. As it pertains to her abilities in the Force she is a fast learner but then again Luke was able to deflect 3 bolts from a training droid by just being told to stretch out with his feelings and blew up the Death Star.

I prefer the whiny Luke from A New Hope or the creepy Anakin from Attack of the Clones because at least those main characters were imperfect. At least they felt human.

Rey is naive and was reluctant to embrace her destiny. She was scared to death of Kylo Ren. Finn is just a coward who is torn between self preservation and protecting the people he cares about.

And I never wanted to see the badass Han Solo as an old, divorced deadbeat dad forced back into the smuggling business.

Well that’s life sometimes. Personally I’m glad they negated that fairy tale ending in ROTJ though I would have preferred it to be bitter sweet instead of just bitter.

Perhaps I need to watch the film a second time to give a more objective assessment.

A storm trooper spontaneously deciding to leave the First Order and join the Resistance is equivalent to a member of Hitler Youth deciding to leave Nazi Germany and fight for the Allies. It is conceivable, but his motivation should have been explained better.

Luke was only able to deflect the blasts of the seeker droid and blow up the Death Star as a result of Obi-Wan’s training. Even if Luke trained Rey as a child before Kylo Ren wiped her memory, she should not have been able to subconsciously remember how to perform a Jedi mind trick as her memory was wiped.

If Kylo Ren massacred the New Jedi Order, why was he unable to defeat Rey?

Lord Haseo said:

darthrush said:

Worst film ever is such an over the top assessment of the film in my opinion.

Such statements are normal in this age of hyperbole being the rule and not the exception. Though in 5 years or so it’ll pass.

It is not really hyperbole. I am only twenty one and rarely watch movies. Typically I only watch movies that have won oscars, received rave reviews, or reached 90% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Maybe it is not the worst film I have ever seen, but it is certainly the most superficial film I have ever seen.

The Force Awakens was a thinly disguised remake of A New Hope with a more ethnically diverse cast, better special effects, a less coherent plot, and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters.

Finn is far too nice for someone who was conditioned to mercilessly kill innocents from childhood.

Rey is far too perfect at everything.

I prefer the whiny Luke from A New Hope or the creepy Anakin from Attack of the Clones because at least those main characters were imperfect. At least they felt human.

Toward the end of the film, I was actually hoping that the main characters would die so that the next movie would star other characters.

And I never wanted to see the badass Han Solo as an old, divorced deadbeat dad forced back into the smuggling business.

That ruined his character for me.

Also:

• I never understood Finn’s motivation for fleeing the First Order and joining the Resistance, especially if he was conditioned from childhood to be evil.

It is as if a screenwriter wrote a movie about a member of Hitler Youth deciding to switch sides and fight for the Allies without explaining the motivation for his decision.

• I never understood how Rey could be so talented at everything even if she is a Skywalker and even if Luke trained her as a child before Kylo Ren wiped her memory through the Force.

• I never understood the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance.

• I never understood how the destruction of the Hosnian system could wipe out the entire Republic star fleet.

The entire Republic star fleet is located in only one solar system in a galaxy with millions of solar systems?

• I never thought that Han Solo was funny in this movie.

There are a lot of things I find objectionable in The Force Awakens

Darth Lars said:

Nobody should bully someone for their opinions about Star Wars.
There are many types of Star Wars fans, who love and hate all kind of things and different things in the Star Wars movies and in the Star Wars universe.

Accept that and respect each other.

Hear, hear!

Dek Rollins said:

Scott109 said:

Attack of the Clones is not a perfect film, but it is a decent film…

No. It’s not. Both choices have been scientifically proven false.

What experiments have proven that Attack of the Clones is a poor film?

In what way was my statement scientifically proven false?

You are entitled to your opinion, but please refrain from presenting your opinion as an absolute fact.